What does "Hit simultaneously" have to do with anything?
The basic casting create 3 separate missiles. Why would the timing of their impact make a difference?
The rule for damage is:
If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them.
This is also exactly why Sposta says that the "simultaneously" is important to this interpretation. I think I agree because I think that it is the dev's method of keying us to this vs having separate darts acting individually like they were separate attacks as the beams in eldritch blast.
What does "Hit simultaneously" have to do with anything?
The basic casting create 3 separate missiles. Why would the timing of their impact make a difference?
The rule for damage is:
If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them.
This is also exactly why Sposta says that the "simultaneously" is important to this interpretation. I think I agree because I think that it is the dev's method of keying us to this vs having separate darts acting individually like they were separate attacks as the beams in eldritch blast.
That works great were you have 1 fireball that does the same damage to all targets. But if you split the missiles between targets it does not deal the same damage to each target unless you can and do divide the missiles evenly between the targets.
I don't like the idea of rolling 1 die and multiplying it times the number of missiles. I will continue to run has I always have.
Yea, like most of us said, we agree that one die is the actual rule but we roll multiple anyway. The only time I can think of where it matters is if you have an evoker, in which case you can just let them roll multiple and add the damage to all of them instead since you're technically house ruling anyway.
What does "Hit simultaneously" have to do with anything?
The basic casting create 3 separate missiles. Why would the timing of their impact make a difference?
The rule for damage is:
If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them.
This is also exactly why Sposta says that the "simultaneously" is important to this interpretation. I think I agree because I think that it is the dev's method of keying us to this vs having separate darts acting individually like they were separate attacks as the beams in eldritch blast.
That works great were you have 1 fireball that does the same damage to all targets. But if you split the missiles between targets it does not deal the same damage to each target unless you can and do divide the missiles evenly between the targets.
Not true RAW. RAW, every dart does the exact same damage no mater the target(s). RAF, do what makes your group happy.
I don't like the idea of rolling 1 die and multiplying it times the number of missiles. I will continue to run has I always have.
Yea, like most of us said, we agree that one die is the actual rule but we roll multiple anyway. The only time I can think of where it matters is if you have an evoker, in which case you can just let them roll multiple and add the damage to all of them instead since you're technically house ruling anyway.
I personally run it as RAW, but I would never fault anyone for doing it the other way.
I am not so much trying to argue that I am right per RAW, just that it is kind of awkward.
Everyone in this group agrees with you. The only reason it’s not awkward for me is because I’ve played it that way since the early ‘90s. That’s how the group I played in did it in AD&D2e.
I roll multiple dice, but that is solely for fun (moar diiiice!).
Magic missile is an area of effect spell, just like fireball or shatter, except that the caster gets to pick which targets in the area are damaged and the caster can choose to damage a target in the area more than once.
In hindsight I wish you had done the pole as a two-parter, one poll on what people think is RAW, and the other for how they actually play it. I suspect they would be almost the exact opposite statistics, like 80/20 vs 20/80 or there abouts.
In hindsight I wish you had done the pole as a two-parter, one poll on what people think is RAW, and the other for how they actually play it. I suspect they would be almost the exact opposite statistics, like 80/20 vs 20/80 or there abouts.
Yeah, it is really interesting to see how many people have said, "I know it's not RAW, but I roll for each bolt anyway". I don't have a large pool to draw from, but I'm starting to wonder if Magic Missile is the spell in the game that is most knowingly played "wrong" by players across D&D.
just chiming in with a little bit of even harder RAW interpretation of the AOE damage dice rules from the PHB:
"If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast."
You roll the damage once for all targets and apply the roll for all of them. Now let's take a Magic Missile cast on spell level 3 (5 missiles) and distribute them on three targets 1, 1, 3.
If you go RAW you now roll 1 damage roll and apply the same result to all targets, meaning all targets get the same amount of damage. This is not per missile, this is per target, when following the sentence in the PHB for AOE. So does the third target now only take 1d4+1 or 3d4+3 damage? Or do the two single targets also take 3d4+3 and not 1d4+1?
You get my point?
If you follow the RAW for AOE exactly, all 3 targets get the exact same damage, not per missile but per spell. There is, in my opinion, a misinterpretation, what the AOE rule really says.
just chiming in with a little bit of even harder RAW interpretation of the AOE damage dice rules from the PHB:
"If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast."
You roll the damage once for all targets and apply the roll for all of them. Now let's take a Magic Missile cast on spell level 3 (5 missiles) and distribute them on three targets 1, 1, 3.
If you go RAW you now roll 1 damage roll and apply the same result to all targets, meaning all targets get the same amount of damage. This is not per missile, this is per target, when following the sentence in the PHB for AOE. So does the third target now only take 1d4+1 or 3d4+3 damage? Or do the two single targets also take 3d4+3 and not 1d4+1?
You get my point?
If you follow the RAW for AOE exactly, all 3 targets get the exact same damage, not per missile but per spell. There is, in my opinion, a misinterpretation, what the AOE rule really says.
I think that, looking more closely at the spell, "each dart hits a creature of your choice" is interpreted as the spell has a target for each dart. The phrase "you can direct them to hit one creature or several" would then be interpreted that one creature can be more than one target.
This line of reasoning is perfectly in line with the other ways that "target" is used or not used throughout the books, though it isn't how I'd necessarily read the spell. Many spells don't use the word target, and sometimes the books seem to use "target" as "point of impact of spell" and sometimes "creature affected by a spell" and occasionally may have other meanings. Some people insist that target can only have one of those meanings, and then just select one that makes their case for them. I, for the most part, think that the authors mean the context relevant plain English meaning of the word in the sentence that it is in since that is how the authors tend to use the word (rather than as some sort of keyword). Even in the definition of target in the rules, it says sometimes target means different things.
just chiming in with a little bit of even harder RAW interpretation of the AOE damage dice rules from the PHB:
"If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast."
You roll the damage once for all targets and apply the roll for all of them. Now let's take a Magic Missile cast on spell level 3 (5 missiles) and distribute them on three targets 1, 1, 3.
If you go RAW you now roll 1 damage roll and apply the same result to all targets, meaning all targets get the same amount of damage. This is not per missile, this is per target, when following the sentence in the PHB for AOE. So does the third target now only take 1d4+1 or 3d4+3 damage? Or do the two single targets also take 3d4+3 and not 1d4+1?
You get my point?
If you follow the RAW for AOE exactly, all 3 targets get the exact same damage, not per missile but per spell. There is, in my opinion, a misinterpretation, what the AOE rule really says.
I think that, looking more closely at the spell, "each dart hits a creature of your choice" is interpreted as the spell has a target for each dart. The phrase "you can direct them to hit one creature or several" would then be interpreted that one creature can be more than one target.
This line of reasoning is perfectly in line with the other ways that "target" is used or not used throughout the books, though it isn't how I'd necessarily read the spell. Many spells don't use the word target, and sometimes the books seem to use "target" as "point of impact of spell" and sometimes "creature affected by a spell" and occasionally may have other meanings. Some people insist that target can only have one of those meanings, and then just select one that makes their case for them. I, for the most part, think that the authors mean the context relevant plain English meaning of the word in the sentence that it is in since that is how the authors tend to use the word (rather than as some sort of keyword). Even in the definition of target in the rules, it says sometimes target means different things.
Ok, with the wording of Magic Missile I agree. However, would I then roll all d4 seperately if I only target one creature?
I can understand what people are saying, my viewpoint is you roll a die for each missile.
as an explanation, fire ball is one ball of fire that blasts multiple people: they all take the same damage. magic missile is multiple darts, "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target" is how it is written, so i read that as each dart has its own roll, them sharing the damage would be written as "All darts deals the same 1d4+1 force damage". i envision it as a multiple arrow/bolt/bullet situation, although i know that they would have attack rolls unlike magic missile, each one has its own damage roll
RAW, each dart from a single casting does the exact same damage as every other dart from that casting, regardless of the target(s). Play it however you like, but that is RAW.
RAW, each dart from a single casting does the exact same damage as every other dart from that casting, regardless of the target(s). Play it however you like, but that is RAW.
The irony there is that is clearly RAI rather than truly RAW, or else it would not have needed that clarification.... RAW has nothing to say about rolling only one die. RAW says adart does 1d4+1, there are three darts, and in the case of spells that hit multiple targets at once you only roll once and apply the total to all. Between those three instructions there is a contradiction that requires interpretation and knowledge of intent to resolve, especially since normally, isn't it ALSO RAW that rules in any specific spell description override any otherwise applicable general rule?
Except Magic Missile has nothing that overrides the general rule. You want further evidence, make a character cast a 9th level Magic Missile and roll for damage on the DDB character sheet and tell me how many dice it rolls. You know how many? One. Because RAW that’s all you ever roll for MM. As I said, play it however you like, but RAW you only ever roll one die for MM, and they all do the same damage for that casting regardless of target.
RAW, each dart from a single casting does the exact same damage as every other dart from that casting, regardless of the target(s). Play it however you like, but that is RAW.
The irony there is that is clearly RAI rather than truly RAW, or else it would not have needed that clarification.... RAW has nothing to say about rolling only one die. RAW says adart does 1d4+1, there are three darts, and in the case of spells that hit multiple targets at once you only roll once and apply the total to all. Between those three instructions there is a contradiction that requires interpretation and knowledge of intent to resolve, especially since normally, isn't it ALSO RAW that rules in any specific spell description override any otherwise applicable general rule?
Except Magic Missile has nothing that overrides the general rule. You want further evidence, make a character cast a 9th level Magic Missile and roll for damage on the DDB character sheet and tell me how many dice it rolls. You know how many? One. Because RAW that’s all you ever roll for MM. As I said, play it however you like, but RAW you only ever roll one die for MM, and they all do the same damage for that casting regardless of target.
Then why do you not roll just 1d6 for fireball, lighting bolt, etc, and apply that result to all the however many dice you are entitled to based on the slot level you used? RAW does not say 'Roll only one die.' It says 'A dart does 1d4+1' That is not the same thing unless there is literally only 1 dart.
Because MM lists 1d4+1*Darts and fireball lists 8d6+ 1d6/slot level above 3rd. Fireball adds dice. Magic Missile adds darts, but every dart does the same damage RAW.
Let me repeat myself again: Most people do not play Magic Missile according to RAW. Most people roll individually for each dart. That’s okay, but technically it is a houserule.
The rule for damage is:
This is also exactly why Sposta says that the "simultaneously" is important to this interpretation. I think I agree because I think that it is the dev's method of keying us to this vs having separate darts acting individually like they were separate attacks as the beams in eldritch blast.
Note, the highlighting in the previous post is in the source.
But that highlighting does beg the question, What is RAW if the three darts hit the same target?
They all do the same damage regardless of target. It’s the inverse of the “could hit multiple targets” that means you can’t Twin Spell Eldritch Blast.
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I don't like the idea of rolling 1 die and multiplying it times the number of missiles. I will continue to run has I always have.
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That works great were you have 1 fireball that does the same damage to all targets. But if you split the missiles between targets it does not deal the same damage to each target unless you can and do divide the missiles evenly between the targets.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Yea, like most of us said, we agree that one die is the actual rule but we roll multiple anyway. The only time I can think of where it matters is if you have an evoker, in which case you can just let them roll multiple and add the damage to all of them instead since you're technically house ruling anyway.
I am not so much trying to argue that I am right per RAW, just that it is kind of awkward.
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Not true RAW. RAW, every dart does the exact same damage no mater the target(s). RAF, do what makes your group happy.
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/774030989894955008?lang=en
I personally run it as RAW, but I would never fault anyone for doing it the other way.
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Everyone in this group agrees with you. The only reason it’s not awkward for me is because I’ve played it that way since the early ‘90s. That’s how the group I played in did it in AD&D2e.
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I roll multiple dice, but that is solely for fun (moar diiiice!).
Magic missile is an area of effect spell, just like fireball or shatter, except that the caster gets to pick which targets in the area are damaged and the caster can choose to damage a target in the area more than once.
Transmorpher,
In hindsight I wish you had done the pole as a two-parter, one poll on what people think is RAW, and the other for how they actually play it. I suspect they would be almost the exact opposite statistics, like 80/20 vs 20/80 or there abouts.
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Yeah, it is really interesting to see how many people have said, "I know it's not RAW, but I roll for each bolt anyway". I don't have a large pool to draw from, but I'm starting to wonder if Magic Missile is the spell in the game that is most knowingly played "wrong" by players across D&D.
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Hi guys,
just chiming in with a little bit of even harder RAW interpretation of the AOE damage dice rules from the PHB:
"If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast."
You roll the damage once for all targets and apply the roll for all of them. Now let's take a Magic Missile cast on spell level 3 (5 missiles) and distribute them on three targets 1, 1, 3.
If you go RAW you now roll 1 damage roll and apply the same result to all targets, meaning all targets get the same amount of damage. This is not per missile, this is per target, when following the sentence in the PHB for AOE. So does the third target now only take 1d4+1 or 3d4+3 damage? Or do the two single targets also take 3d4+3 and not 1d4+1?
You get my point?
If you follow the RAW for AOE exactly, all 3 targets get the exact same damage, not per missile but per spell. There is, in my opinion, a misinterpretation, what the AOE rule really says.
I think that, looking more closely at the spell, "each dart hits a creature of your choice" is interpreted as the spell has a target for each dart. The phrase "you can direct them to hit one creature or several" would then be interpreted that one creature can be more than one target.
This line of reasoning is perfectly in line with the other ways that "target" is used or not used throughout the books, though it isn't how I'd necessarily read the spell. Many spells don't use the word target, and sometimes the books seem to use "target" as "point of impact of spell" and sometimes "creature affected by a spell" and occasionally may have other meanings. Some people insist that target can only have one of those meanings, and then just select one that makes their case for them. I, for the most part, think that the authors mean the context relevant plain English meaning of the word in the sentence that it is in since that is how the authors tend to use the word (rather than as some sort of keyword). Even in the definition of target in the rules, it says sometimes target means different things.
Ok, with the wording of Magic Missile I agree. However, would I then roll all d4 seperately if I only target one creature?
I can understand what people are saying, my viewpoint is you roll a die for each missile.
as an explanation, fire ball is one ball of fire that blasts multiple people: they all take the same damage. magic missile is multiple darts, "A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target" is how it is written, so i read that as each dart has its own roll, them sharing the damage would be written as "All darts deals the same 1d4+1 force damage". i envision it as a multiple arrow/bolt/bullet situation, although i know that they would have attack rolls unlike magic missile, each one has its own damage roll
RAW, each dart from a single casting does the exact same damage as every other dart from that casting, regardless of the target(s). Play it however you like, but that is RAW.
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/774030989894955008?lang=en
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Except Magic Missile has nothing that overrides the general rule. You want further evidence, make a character cast a 9th level Magic Missile and roll for damage on the DDB character sheet and tell me how many dice it rolls. You know how many? One. Because RAW that’s all you ever roll for MM. As I said, play it however you like, but RAW you only ever roll one die for MM, and they all do the same damage for that casting regardless of target.
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Because MM lists 1d4+1*Darts and fireball lists 8d6+ 1d6/slot level above 3rd. Fireball adds dice. Magic Missile adds darts, but every dart does the same damage RAW.
Let me repeat myself again: Most people do not play Magic Missile according to RAW. Most people roll individually for each dart. That’s okay, but technically it is a houserule.
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Said what Sposta already said.