Hex Marks the Creature. 1st-level warlock feature (enhances Spellcasting) You can call on your bond with your patron to hex a creature for a time: you know the Hex spell, Charisma is your spellcasting ability for it, and it doesn't count against the number of warlock spells you know. You can use it a certain number of times without expending a spell slot and without requiring concentration— a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Are you under the impression that warlocks are underpowered? They aren't. Their only real problem is that hex agonizing blast is the only powerful option they have that they can rely on. Making that powerful option more powerful and reliable might not fix the problem.
Although... If they are going to do it anyway, not requiring a spell slot would help a lot with that problem, it should still use concentration though (too many shenanigans if it doesn't). And actually, an extra cantrip could help the whole 2 spells per SR thing too.
But, I think they just need a way to get slots back without having to stop for a full short rest. That way they don't suffer in campaigns with time crunch. Maybe they could get their capstone feature at level 5 and the number of uses of it could increase every 5 levels. That would probably fix it.
Everyone who has ever played a Warlock has lamented the fact that they get so few Cantrips when they’re the ones that arguably need them the most. I don’t think anyone would say the Warlock’s Cantrip pool shouldn’t scale from 3-5 instead of 2-4.
Many would (and do) argue that having to concentrate on Hex invalidates over half their already extremely limited spell list since more than half their spells require concentration. To be competitive though, they kindof have to cast Hex since it’s “their thing.” The other main thing warlock players lament is that the don’t have enough spell slots without multiple lunch breaks per day, since they end up spending them on Hex all the time.
This proposed idea would free up not only their Concentration, but also their need to spend spell their already extremely limited resource pool to do the one thing they are absolutely going to do anyway, usually to the exclusion of all else.
Before I thought this up my idea was that they should get one spell slot per long rest in addition to their usual pool, and another at 11th-level. I just thought this idea might solve both problems with one feature that took inspiration from what WotC suggests to “fix” the Ranger.
I don't think you are wrong about this fixing complaints warlock players have. I'm just not sure it needs as much. If it can just cast hex without slots and recover slots between scenes without sitting still for a whole hour, I think that would bring it on par with the likes of bards at least. (I also think it would help if they got their 3rd and 4th slots about 4 levels sooner).
The ranger needed more help than warlock. It had very very few base class features that were useful outside of very narrow circumstances and had less casting power than warlock.
Perhaps an eldritch invocation that lets you cast hex at will without spending a spell slot is what you're looking for? Doesn't solve the concentration issue but this seems like an otherwise realistic solution/compromise maybe?
Perhaps an eldritch invocation that lets you cast hex at will without spending a spell slot is what you're looking for? Doesn't solve the concentration issue but this seems like an otherwise realistic solution/compromise maybe?
Perhaps an eldritch invocation that lets you cast hex at will without spending a spell slot is what you're looking for? Doesn't solve the concentration issue but this seems like an otherwise realistic solution/compromise maybe?
And ascend into godhood at level 2? Yes please.
Yeah, that’s why I figured basing it on Favored Foe was a better starting point.
Perhaps an eldritch invocation that lets you cast hex at will without spending a spell slot is what you're looking for? Doesn't solve the concentration issue but this seems like an otherwise realistic solution/compromise maybe?
And ascend into godhood at level 2? Yes please.
Yeah, that’s why I figured basing it on Favored Foe was a better starting point.
Honestly, I considered suggesting your feature be an invocation instead. It is immediately one of the strongest invocations, but at least it has a cost at level 2 instead of being free at level 1.
And for everyone that says warlock doesn't get enough cantrips, go pact of the tome. Problem solved.
Honestly, I considered suggesting your feature be an invocation instead. It is immediately one of the strongest invocations, but at least it has a cost at level 2 instead of being free at level 1.
And for everyone that says warlock doesn't get enough cantrips, go pact of the tome. Problem solved.
I’d be okay with it being an invocation, but usually whenever I am a player is presented with “options” and one is clearly superior it feels like I got cheated. But at least it would rebalance it.
And why do you think almost everyone goes Pact of the Tome? It would be nice to have a little more wiggle room and then maybe Chain or Blade (or even Talisman) can get some love.
It's worth noting, I think, that a warlock's basic Agonizing Doink damage, by itself, is competitive with most of the best martial characters out there. You get a d10 Force damage superweapon that ascends to four attacks three full levels before the fighter does. Even without Hex damage, Agonizing Doink by itself makes the warlock's at-will damage immediately competitive at all levels. Other classes can exceed it, but only by expending limited resources. In terms of at-will, resource-free damage, the warlock is very hard to beat without access to hefty magical gear or extremely heavy levels. I believe a 20th-level barbarian with unlimited rage and Primal Champion may start pulling ahead, and of course Archdruids can do Archdruid things with infinite Wild Shape, but beyond those two I don't think much else really compares to the at-will resource-free damage of an Agonizing Doink warlock.
When combined with the half-dozen other janky things Eldritch Bonk can do with a Doink-heavy Invocation loadout - ten-foot pull, up to a FORTY FRICKIN' FOOT PUSH, ten-foot snare, three hundred foot range...well. It's hard to really think that Hex is so important it needs this sort of front-loading. Ridiculously good? Yes. But I think I'd more rather see the spell itself go the route of Bestow Curse, in that once you cast it at 5th or higher (with a Pact Magic spell slot specifically, perhaps) it no longer requires concentration. Perhaps chop the 24-hour duration off and leave it at 8, but even then you have a pretty S-tier superspell...once your warlock hits ninth level IN WARLOCK.
Because oh mah beagle Jesus am I sick of the two-levels-in-Warlock dip on LITERALLY EVERYTHING...
Would increasing the required level for the invocation balance it better? I could argue that the actual power of hex is closer to a 2nd-level spell rather than a 1st-level as it takes a bonus action to cast and its effect doesn't "increase" without a slot of 3rd-level or higher anyway, and there's precedent of invocations with at-will, slot-less 2nd-level spells at higher levels (levitate at 9th-level, alter self and invisibility at 15th-level).
And why do you think almost everyone goes Pact of the Tome? It would be nice to have a little more wiggle room and then maybe Chain or Blade (or even Talisman) can get some love.
If everybody goes pact of tome it is because it is generally the best option (and not because of lack of cantrips).
Pact of the blade is bad. Even after dedicating a subclass, a pact boon, and 4 invocations into a melee build, bladelock barely out damages agonizing blast/hex by using up all it's resources while AB barely uses any.
Pact of the chain is cool and stands out more with it's invocations, but book of ancient secrets can get the tomelock find familiar, so unless you do something special with the chain familiar or invocations, pact of tome edges it out.
It's worth noting, I think, that a warlock's basic Agonizing Doink damage, by itself, is competitive with most of the best martial characters out there. You get a d10 Force damage superweapon that ascends to four attacks three full levels before the fighter does. Even without Hex damage, Agonizing Doink by itself makes the warlock's at-will damage immediately competitive at all levels. Other classes can exceed it, but only by expending limited resources. In terms of at-will, resource-free damage, the warlock is very hard to beat without access to hefty magical gear or extremely heavy levels. I believe a 20th-level barbarian with unlimited rage and Primal Champion may start pulling ahead, and of course Archdruids can do Archdruid things with infinite Wild Shape, but beyond those two I don't think much else really compares to the at-will resource-free damage of an Agonizing Doink warlock.
When combined with the half-dozen other janky things Eldritch Bonk can do with a Doink-heavy Invocation loadout - ten-foot pull, up to a FORTY FRICKIN' FOOT PUSH, ten-foot snare, three hundred foot range...well. It's hard to really think that Hex is so important it needs this sort of front-loading. Ridiculously good? Yes. But I think I'd more rather see the spell itself go the route of Bestow Curse, in that once you cast it at 5th or higher (with a Pact Magic spell slot specifically, perhaps) it no longer requires concentration. Perhaps chop the 24-hour duration off and leave it at 8, but even then you have a pretty S-tier superspell...once your warlock hits ninth level IN WARLOCK.
Because oh mah beagle Jesus am I sick of the two-levels-in-Warlock dip on LITERALLY EVERYTHING...
I’m not trying to make Warlocks “more powerful,” I’m trying to find a way, some way, any way for them to do something different from Hex + Eldritch Blast twice, take a nap and a sandwich, and rinse and repeat all day long.... When was the last time you saw a Warlock cast any of the following spells:
1st-Level. Arms of Hadar, *Cause Fear, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, *Expeditious Retreat, Hellish Rebuke, Illusory Script, *Protection from Evil and Good, *Tasha’s Hideous Laughter, Unseen Servant, *Witch Bolt
2nd-Level. *Cloud of Daggers, *Crown of Madness, *Darkness, *Detect Thoughts, *Earthbind, Enthrall, *Hold Person, *Invisibility, *Mind Spike, Mirror Image, Misty Step, *Ray of Enfeeblement, *Shadow Blade, Shatter, *Spider Climb, *Suggestion
Anything with asterisks (*) requires concentration and so never get cast because Warlocks are already too busy concentrating on Hex, and anything without asterisks never get cast because Warlocks are forced to be so frugal with their meager supply of spell slots. The only time they ever cast anything off that list is if they go Pact of the Tome + Ancient Secrets and those spells happen to be rituals. 🥱 Or they multiclassed. 🙄
How would you make it so Warlocks get to actually do more stuff?
By not caring so much about damage minmaxery? That was the entire point of my post - warlocks do not NEED to maintain Hex all the time for every single fight. It is a useful damage tool, but frankly it's only really potent at 11th level or higher when you get three doinks a round. It's mediocre before your second doink and only decent until your third.
My own warlock (who, admittedly, I haven't gotten to play in more than three games, none of which were contiguous. Poor cursed Memory q_q) knows hex and has Agonizing Doink because I wanted her to be baseline combat functional, but she's never actually cast it. Spider Climb proved much more useful, and at higher levels her game plan revolves around Greater Invisibility far more than Hex. Hex is there almost more for its oft-forgotten ability check penalty than for the damage; it's simply a tool in the box because I realize that 1d10+5 damage with the best attack progression in the game is sufficient unto the needs of most combats against things that aren't superbosses.
Any given fight gets the spells cast in it that suit that fight. If that spell is always Hex, I'd consider that more of a problem of the DM having trouble varying their combats than an issue of Hex being overdone. At least in real play. One must always remember that Internet Warriors plan their builds in a vacuum where nothing but damage and higher numbers matter, no matter what real play might look like.
Okay, so it seems that the choices are: a) find a tweak to the Warlock that works or b) change the meta. 🤔 I wonder which will be easier to implement?!?
(Gosh I hope the sarcasm came through on that one.)
...warlocks do not NEED to maintain Hex all the time for every single fight. It is a useful damage tool, but frankly it's only really potent at 11th level or higher when you get three doinks a round. It's mediocre before your second doink and only decent until your third.
That being the case, why not just give it to them?
...And actually, an extra cantrip could help the whole 2 spells per SR thing too.
But, I think they just need a way to get slots back without having to stop for a full short rest. That way they don't suffer in campaigns with time crunch. Maybe they could get their capstone feature at level 5 and the number of uses of it could increase every 5 levels. That would probably fix it.
I don't think you are wrong about this fixing complaints warlock players have. I'm just not sure it needs as much. If it can just cast hex without slots and recover slots between scenes without sitting still for a whole hour, I think that would bring it on par with the likes of bards at least. (I also think it would help if they got their 3rd and 4th slots about 4 levels sooner).
Everyone who has ever played a Warlock has lamented the fact that they get so few Cantrips when they’re the ones that arguably need them the most. I don’t think anyone would say the Warlock’s Cantrip pool shouldn’t scale from 3-5 instead of 2-4....
...Before... my idea was that they should get one spell slot per long rest in addition to their usual pool, and another at 11th-level.
So it looks like we agree that they should get one additional Cantrip starting at 1st level. Let’s see if we can put our heads together for the rest of it.
Hex Marks the Creature. 1st-level warlock feature (enhances Spellcasting)
You can call on your bond with your patron to hex a creature for a time: you know the Hex spell, Charisma is your spellcasting ability for it, and it doesn't count against the number of warlock spells you know. You can use it a certain number of times without expending a spell slot and without requiring concentration— a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Are you under the impression that warlocks are underpowered? They aren't. Their only real problem is that hex agonizing blast is the only powerful option they have that they can rely on. Making that powerful option more powerful and reliable might not fix the problem.
Although... If they are going to do it anyway, not requiring a spell slot would help a lot with that problem, it should still use concentration though (too many shenanigans if it doesn't). And actually, an extra cantrip could help the whole 2 spells per SR thing too.
But, I think they just need a way to get slots back without having to stop for a full short rest. That way they don't suffer in campaigns with time crunch. Maybe they could get their capstone feature at level 5 and the number of uses of it could increase every 5 levels. That would probably fix it.
Eldritch blast can be used with hex and not with hunter's mark. If that's not THE reason why, it's at least ONE of the reasons why.
Everyone who has ever played a Warlock has lamented the fact that they get so few Cantrips when they’re the ones that arguably need them the most. I don’t think anyone would say the Warlock’s Cantrip pool shouldn’t scale from 3-5 instead of 2-4.
Many would (and do) argue that having to concentrate on Hex invalidates over half their already extremely limited spell list since more than half their spells require concentration. To be competitive though, they kindof have to cast Hex since it’s “their thing.” The other main thing warlock players lament is that the don’t have enough spell slots without multiple lunch breaks per day, since they end up spending them on Hex all the time.
This proposed idea would free up not only their Concentration, but also their need to spend spell their already extremely limited resource pool to do the one thing they are absolutely going to do anyway, usually to the exclusion of all else.
Before I thought this up my idea was that they should get one spell slot per long rest in addition to their usual pool, and another at 11th-level. I just thought this idea might solve both problems with one feature that took inspiration from what WotC suggests to “fix” the Ranger.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
I don't think you are wrong about this fixing complaints warlock players have. I'm just not sure it needs as much. If it can just cast hex without slots and recover slots between scenes without sitting still for a whole hour, I think that would bring it on par with the likes of bards at least. (I also think it would help if they got their 3rd and 4th slots about 4 levels sooner).
The ranger needed more help than warlock. It had very very few base class features that were useful outside of very narrow circumstances and had less casting power than warlock.
Perhaps an eldritch invocation that lets you cast hex at will without spending a spell slot is what you're looking for? Doesn't solve the concentration issue but this seems like an otherwise realistic solution/compromise maybe?
That’s why I started this thread. So we could all put our heads together.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
And ascend into godhood at level 2? Yes please.
Yeah, that’s why I figured basing it on Favored Foe was a better starting point.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Honestly, I considered suggesting your feature be an invocation instead. It is immediately one of the strongest invocations, but at least it has a cost at level 2 instead of being free at level 1.
And for everyone that says warlock doesn't get enough cantrips, go pact of the tome. Problem solved.
I’d be okay with it being an invocation, but usually whenever I am a player is presented with “options” and one is clearly superior it feels like I got cheated. But at least it would rebalance it.
And why do you think almost everyone goes Pact of the Tome? It would be nice to have a little more wiggle room and then maybe Chain or Blade (or even Talisman) can get some love.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
It's worth noting, I think, that a warlock's basic Agonizing Doink damage, by itself, is competitive with most of the best martial characters out there. You get a d10 Force damage superweapon that ascends to four attacks three full levels before the fighter does. Even without Hex damage, Agonizing Doink by itself makes the warlock's at-will damage immediately competitive at all levels. Other classes can exceed it, but only by expending limited resources. In terms of at-will, resource-free damage, the warlock is very hard to beat without access to hefty magical gear or extremely heavy levels. I believe a 20th-level barbarian with unlimited rage and Primal Champion may start pulling ahead, and of course Archdruids can do Archdruid things with infinite Wild Shape, but beyond those two I don't think much else really compares to the at-will resource-free damage of an Agonizing Doink warlock.
When combined with the half-dozen other janky things Eldritch Bonk can do with a Doink-heavy Invocation loadout - ten-foot pull, up to a FORTY FRICKIN' FOOT PUSH, ten-foot snare, three hundred foot range...well. It's hard to really think that Hex is so important it needs this sort of front-loading. Ridiculously good? Yes. But I think I'd more rather see the spell itself go the route of Bestow Curse, in that once you cast it at 5th or higher (with a Pact Magic spell slot specifically, perhaps) it no longer requires concentration. Perhaps chop the 24-hour duration off and leave it at 8, but even then you have a pretty S-tier superspell...once your warlock hits ninth level IN WARLOCK.
Because oh mah beagle Jesus am I sick of the two-levels-in-Warlock dip on LITERALLY EVERYTHING...
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
Would increasing the required level for the invocation balance it better? I could argue that the actual power of hex is closer to a 2nd-level spell rather than a 1st-level as it takes a bonus action to cast and its effect doesn't "increase" without a slot of 3rd-level or higher anyway, and there's precedent of invocations with at-will, slot-less 2nd-level spells at higher levels (levitate at 9th-level, alter self and invisibility at 15th-level).
If everybody goes pact of tome it is because it is generally the best option (and not because of lack of cantrips).
Pact of the blade is bad. Even after dedicating a subclass, a pact boon, and 4 invocations into a melee build, bladelock barely out damages agonizing blast/hex by using up all it's resources while AB barely uses any.
Pact of the chain is cool and stands out more with it's invocations, but book of ancient secrets can get the tomelock find familiar, so unless you do something special with the chain familiar or invocations, pact of tome edges it out.
Eldritch Bonk and Agonizing Doink?
Love it.
I’m not trying to make Warlocks “more powerful,” I’m trying to find a way, some way, any way for them to do something different from Hex + Eldritch Blast twice, take a nap and a sandwich, and rinse and repeat all day long.... When was the last time you saw a Warlock cast any of the following spells:
Anything with asterisks (*) requires concentration and so never get cast because Warlocks are already too busy concentrating on Hex, and anything without asterisks never get cast because Warlocks are forced to be so frugal with their meager supply of spell slots. The only time they ever cast anything off that list is if they go Pact of the Tome + Ancient Secrets and those spells happen to be rituals. 🥱 Or they multiclassed. 🙄
How would you make it so Warlocks get to actually do more stuff?
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
By not caring so much about damage minmaxery? That was the entire point of my post - warlocks do not NEED to maintain Hex all the time for every single fight. It is a useful damage tool, but frankly it's only really potent at 11th level or higher when you get three doinks a round. It's mediocre before your second doink and only decent until your third.
My own warlock (who, admittedly, I haven't gotten to play in more than three games, none of which were contiguous. Poor cursed Memory q_q) knows hex and has Agonizing Doink because I wanted her to be baseline combat functional, but she's never actually cast it. Spider Climb proved much more useful, and at higher levels her game plan revolves around Greater Invisibility far more than Hex. Hex is there almost more for its oft-forgotten ability check penalty than for the damage; it's simply a tool in the box because I realize that 1d10+5 damage with the best attack progression in the game is sufficient unto the needs of most combats against things that aren't superbosses.
Any given fight gets the spells cast in it that suit that fight. If that spell is always Hex, I'd consider that more of a problem of the DM having trouble varying their combats than an issue of Hex being overdone. At least in real play. One must always remember that Internet Warriors plan their builds in a vacuum where nothing but damage and higher numbers matter, no matter what real play might look like.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
Okay, so it seems that the choices are: a) find a tweak to the Warlock that works or b) change the meta. 🤔 I wonder which will be easier to implement?!?
(Gosh I hope the sarcasm came through on that one.)DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
That being the case, why not just give it to them?
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
So it looks like we agree that they should get one additional Cantrip starting at 1st level. Let’s see if we can put our heads together for the rest of it.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB