I like the idea that you get 2 at each level. It adds to the variety needed and makes it better without being too op. The other thing I did was I decided to add options by trading out choices with other elemental spells from XGtE as long as the regular spell level was the same. Like Fireball being traded for Erupting Earth or trading Wall of Fire for Immolation. I was also willing to bump up the 17th level choices from 5th level to 6th for any of the Investiture spells. Keep in mind, as much as these are rules, one of the rules in the game is that what the DM says goes. So changes to a class choice can be worked to make it better.
Looks good. I am home-brewing something similar but less Avatar. I'm concentrating study on each element (you are a Water Monk, she is a Fire Monk etc). Each element grants "stances" that are always-on abilities. Bonus action to chance stances if you know more than one element but I want this to be rare. I'm fleshing out the elemental abilities so that there are enough options that someone can focus solely one one element.
If they do chose a second element, it cannot be the opposing element and you get less abilities to choose from (Water Monk learning Air chooses 1 Air Discipline instead of 2 new Water Disciplines).
I loke what you are doing though and it is startling/refreshing to see that we have come up with similar ideas in our own vacuums.
I thinks Elemental is nice do to its flexibility to multi class(That's what's its for). For an example I made Bi-Han (Sub-Zero) from Mortal Kombat, making him a Elemental monk and Sorcerer. And I wont lie he had a weak start but in mid to late campaign I was a BEAST and made people fear the four Elemental subclass.
@Abelhawk. It looks interesting. The Chakras aspect can be fun, though I feel it might encroach somewhat on the territory of the Open Hand Monks. I don't know about the Fire element getting 2 cantrips when the other elements only get one. Still, I like that you're opening up the sub-class to do more than cast Ki-expensive spells.
The Avatar State section is a little confusing. So if you go into an Avatar State after reaching 0 hp, but have to keep rolling Death saving throws, that can cancel your Avatar State prematurely. Is that right? But you can do all the regular monk stuff Without expending Ki points after getting knocked to 0 hp? Also, the 17th level version of Avatar State seems to nullify your 6th level ability somewhat. If you spend the 5 Ki to get the Avatar State intentionally, that means if you are dropped to 0 hp after having already used Avatar State, you can't enter Avatar State again b/c you used it previously. Please clarify.
The Block Energy abilities are similar to Open Hand monks, but they have different effects and gain them at a later level, so I don't think it encroaches too much.
Since control flamesis basically a ribbon cantrip, I didn't think it would be that big of a deal, but for consistency's sake, maybe it would be best to just stick with it and throw produce flame away.
Correct and correct. You can only use the Avatar State once per long rest, regardless of how it's triggered. Ironically, I think actually taking out the line about it recharging under Harmonic Enlightenment would clarify this, since it seems to denote a different ability altogether, so I'll do that. I don't think it nullifies the ability—it upgrades it. Being able to fly and cast spells at will without worrying about dying for a whole minute is different from a desperate last stand.
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Well, I guess I need to find my PHB and re-read the Open Hand monks. I get why a lot of other Monks would want one or two of those lower level abilities. It almost seems a design flaw that it isn't part of the core Monk class.
Re: #2. Yeah, I think that's a good call. Just throw a torch if you want a fire. Or ask someone else with more cantrips do it for you. Firebolt, PFlame, Bonfire. Control flames is a great cantrip when you're in a campaign dealing with humans or halfings or dragonborn because they need light to see. It's also great being able to burn a bunch of tents really fast to cause a panic. Is that really just a ribbon ability?
Re: #3 Well now that you explained it, it sounds like you'd be painting a bullseye on your back by going into Avatar State before level 8 (or 12). Anybody doing a bunch of stunning strikes and flying while being lit up like a christmas tree is bound to get focus fired fast. I would have to see it in play to decide whether that's overpowered or incredibly situational. There are probably some severe combos you could do with that.
By the way, I made some revisions to core Ranger class that's up on the Homebrew forum. If you have some time, let me know what you think.
I put up my own version of the 4 Elements monk in the Homebrew section. A complete redesign. i would appreciate anyone's thoughts on how well the abilties mesh with the base Monk chassis.
I think it's pretty good if u use the revised version. Im playing as an earth bender and we are pretty far in our campaign. We r all lv 18 and depending on the element u choose to prioritize can decide what roll u play. I can use wall of stone to protect myself and allies from breath attacks and spells with a cone like flaming hands. I can attack using melfs minute meteor and erupting earth to attack grouped up enemies and even knock close by enemies prone with the Avatar of the elements ability. It allows me to fight and help out my allies. For example one time the wizard in our group was about to get one shot by a breath attack so I used my reaction to cast wall of stone and on my next turn cast erupting earth twice thanks to extra attack and got the enemy to focus on me so the wizard could prepare an item that we had customly made for this fight.
Remember though that monk regains ki as a short rest, making its spellcasting more similar to a warlocks. That said I agree it looks weak, but never seen it in action.
I think a buff to the Elemental Attunement feature would do well at L11. Allow the monk to have access to shape water, create bonfire, gust and mould earth. It’s a nice added bonus, and provides some free utility.
I’ve had a PC play this subclass and I ruled that if he wanted to learn a spell not on the spell list, they spoke with me and we worked out an appropriate ki cost. Allowing for higher level spells, but adding once per short rest etc. They loved fire bending, so for 4 Ki hurling a lightning bolt like in TLA put a smile on their face. And Chain lightning for 6 ki once per rest. I think it’s a fun class, and giving the PC the option to add more spells actually makes it fun and super interactive, allowing no two monks to have the same move set.
well at least fangs of the fire snake lets an lizardfolk player eat someones life essence up to 10 ft away with living fire, so that is pretty rad but other than that yeah, your max ki points able to be spent makes you pretty much an half-caster but since you learn so few disiplines you are practically less than that
also since psionic subclasses are getting real popular in the UA recently, how about an monk psion githzerai style subclass that gives you diffrent disiplines, perhaps ones more focused on enchantments and telekenesis like catapult, with an single mind bast and an mage hand like disipline (akin to the monks current elemental attunement) thrown in for flavour, i think that such an subclass, but if they decide to do something akin to that i think they should give the monk new disiplines as soon as they unlock them but have an progression more akin to third caster eldrich knights and arcane trickster rouges and also make shure they get actiual class features at 6th 11th and 17th level instead of new disiplines wich they should get as they go
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I feel like the choices are very limited and the Ki costs very high. You deal very little dmg, unless you pick the AoE spells and use them on large groups, in which case elem monk deals the most dmg of all monks I think. But otherwise I feel that: >Limited number of features hinders ability to roleplay the subclass. For this reason elemental attunement stays in my spellist, since it's the only ability that I can use whenever. >Even the few abiltiy you get, is quite expensive, further limiting the useage and therefore roleplay potential. >Some abilities are straight up subpar choices, when we talk about dps or DPK (damage per ki) Water whip is my favourite abiltiy so far, but 2ki for 3d10 isn't that much when you could have punched 4 times for 1. That being said if oyu have 6 ki to literally burn, you can deadl 8d10+20 fire damage in one round at high levels with fangs of the fire snake. >Eternal mountain defense is stupid. >IN a way it fails to capture the Avatar fantasy, since the benders in both series use elemental bending as their core ability, not just every now and then.
>I still like the fantasy and will probably take my monk to places of elemental power, maybe craft a powerful magical item from elemental essences. >It has a bit of versatility/trick cards to play. I once saved my dwarven companion from a collapsing temple by using water whip on him. Taking fireball/breath of winter allows you to deal huge AoE, otherwise unavaiable for monks. You can use control spells, like Wave of Rolling Earth (Wall of stone) for great utility. And elemental attunement has roleplay/stealth/deception and other utilities. (Creativity plays big role there) >I feel like the class could use a few flavored abilities to choose from / have that enchant their basic ability. >>Fangs of the fire snake: fire, large KI burn for Large dmg. >>Eternal Mountain Defense (reimagined): Earth, you can spend one ki to cast blade ward on yourself. When you do so, your speed is reduced to 0 until the start of your next turn. Combine with patient defense to turtle up as hekk. No dmg tho. >>Whirlpool throw: Whenever you are the target of a melee attack that deals no damage to you, you can take your reaction to spend one ki point and force the enemy to make a strenght saving throw or be moved to a palce 5 feet from you in any direction. The effect last until the start of your next turn, during it's duration you can repeat it a number of times equals to your dexterity or wisdom modifier (whichever is lower) minus one. Hard time wording it, but basically you use your KI to create a water aura that you can use to push attackers around you, instead of making opportunity attacks. >>Messenger of the South Wind. When you take the dash action and the step of the wind bonus action in the same turn and take no opportunity attacks, you regain a KI point at the start of your next turn.
Eh ,needs work. Point is, I would like to feel like someone who uses elemental disciplines and not someone who can sweat out a spell if really needed.
Here's something no one seems to have brought up and it's something I feel could help bolster the class is giving their elemental powers the ability to overcome resistance and/or immunity. But way of the four elements needed structure. like you had to choose a main element and with that you could choose a secondary but at a higher cost somehow. like main element the ki costs are halved.
They should have made Way of the Four Elements a partial caster like Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight. Use Wisdom for casting ability and limited spell list to the various elemental themed spells. Add the "newer" elemental evil spells and been done with it.
They tried to do something new and cool with tying spells to ki points and it was a failure in every way.
They tried to do something new and cool with tying spells to ki points and it was a failure in every way.
It wasn’t that new. The bigger problem was that the Ki costs for the spells were the same as “Spell Point” costs from the optional rules in the DMG. It was also one of the biggest failings with the Mystic, and the “least efficient” thing to do with Sorcery Points. The problem is that the number of points to spell level is just off.
The reason it doesn’t contribute to spell slot progression when Multiclassed is because the Ki pool and the Spell Slots are completely separate so they though there was no need, but then they should be able to spend their Ki to cast any spells known.
I’m really enjoying it, I reskinned the attacks it can do to be gravity based. Think Deva path Pain from Naruto. I mainly use unbroken fist and water whip dealing burst damage pushing and pulling my opponents. Once I burn through my ki I use magic initiate- Druid, to use gust and thorn whip to continue to push and pull my opponent, while running around the battle field trying to keep my opponents off guard, while my party attacks. I call this my Newton Monk Build-https://ddb.ac/characters/29270921/DiPG46
I think the biggest issue with the 4 elements monk is how much it relies on short rests. Most games dont actually get the two short rests per long rest the game designers claimed they intended, and the 4E monk probably goes through and relies on short rest abilities more than any other subclass.
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What do you think of this homebrew subclass "Way of the Avatar" I made? http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkeSQH7dG
Check out my blog for homebrew D&D stuff and other projects!
I like the idea that you get 2 at each level. It adds to the variety needed and makes it better without being too op. The other thing I did was I decided to add options by trading out choices with other elemental spells from XGtE as long as the regular spell level was the same. Like Fireball being traded for Erupting Earth or trading Wall of Fire for Immolation. I was also willing to bump up the 17th level choices from 5th level to 6th for any of the Investiture spells. Keep in mind, as much as these are rules, one of the rules in the game is that what the DM says goes. So changes to a class choice can be worked to make it better.
Looks good. I am home-brewing something similar but less Avatar. I'm concentrating study on each element (you are a Water Monk, she is a Fire Monk etc). Each element grants "stances" that are always-on abilities. Bonus action to chance stances if you know more than one element but I want this to be rare. I'm fleshing out the elemental abilities so that there are enough options that someone can focus solely one one element.
If they do chose a second element, it cannot be the opposing element and you get less abilities to choose from (Water Monk learning Air chooses 1 Air Discipline instead of 2 new Water Disciplines).
I loke what you are doing though and it is startling/refreshing to see that we have come up with similar ideas in our own vacuums.
I thinks Elemental is nice do to its flexibility to multi class(That's what's its for). For an example I made Bi-Han (Sub-Zero) from Mortal Kombat, making him a Elemental monk and Sorcerer. And I wont lie he had a weak start but in mid to late campaign I was a BEAST and made people fear the four Elemental subclass.
The last thing you gonna SEE!
@Abelhawk. It looks interesting. The Chakras aspect can be fun, though I feel it might encroach somewhat on the territory of the Open Hand Monks. I don't know about the Fire element getting 2 cantrips when the other elements only get one. Still, I like that you're opening up the sub-class to do more than cast Ki-expensive spells.
The Avatar State section is a little confusing. So if you go into an Avatar State after reaching 0 hp, but have to keep rolling Death saving throws, that can cancel your Avatar State prematurely. Is that right? But you can do all the regular monk stuff Without expending Ki points after getting knocked to 0 hp? Also, the 17th level version of Avatar State seems to nullify your 6th level ability somewhat. If you spend the 5 Ki to get the Avatar State intentionally, that means if you are dropped to 0 hp after having already used Avatar State, you can't enter Avatar State again b/c you used it previously. Please clarify.
Good calls. Here are my responses:
Check out my blog for homebrew D&D stuff and other projects!
Well, I guess I need to find my PHB and re-read the Open Hand monks. I get why a lot of other Monks would want one or two of those lower level abilities. It almost seems a design flaw that it isn't part of the core Monk class.
Re: #2. Yeah, I think that's a good call. Just throw a torch if you want a fire. Or ask someone else with more cantrips do it for you. Firebolt, PFlame, Bonfire. Control flames is a great cantrip when you're in a campaign dealing with humans or halfings or dragonborn because they need light to see. It's also great being able to burn a bunch of tents really fast to cause a panic. Is that really just a ribbon ability?
Re: #3 Well now that you explained it, it sounds like you'd be painting a bullseye on your back by going into Avatar State before level 8 (or 12). Anybody doing a bunch of stunning strikes and flying while being lit up like a christmas tree is bound to get focus fired fast. I would have to see it in play to decide whether that's overpowered or incredibly situational. There are probably some severe combos you could do with that.
By the way, I made some revisions to core Ranger class that's up on the Homebrew forum. If you have some time, let me know what you think.
If it's a 17th-level ability, it should be really powerful.
And yeah, I'll check it out. I'm always looking for Ranger fixes.
Check out my blog for homebrew D&D stuff and other projects!
I put up my own version of the 4 Elements monk in the Homebrew section. A complete redesign. i would appreciate anyone's thoughts on how well the abilties mesh with the base Monk chassis.
I think it's pretty good if u use the revised version. Im playing as an earth bender and we are pretty far in our campaign. We r all lv 18 and depending on the element u choose to prioritize can decide what roll u play. I can use wall of stone to protect myself and allies from breath attacks and spells with a cone like flaming hands. I can attack using melfs minute meteor and erupting earth to attack grouped up enemies and even knock close by enemies prone with the Avatar of the elements ability. It allows me to fight and help out my allies. For example one time the wizard in our group was about to get one shot by a breath attack so I used my reaction to cast wall of stone and on my next turn cast erupting earth twice thanks to extra attack and got the enemy to focus on me so the wizard could prepare an item that we had customly made for this fight.
Remember though that monk regains ki as a short rest, making its spellcasting more similar to a warlocks. That said I agree it looks weak, but never seen it in action.
I think a buff to the Elemental Attunement feature would do well at L11. Allow the monk to have access to shape water, create bonfire, gust and mould earth. It’s a nice added bonus, and provides some free utility.
I’ve had a PC play this subclass and I ruled that if he wanted to learn a spell not on the spell list, they spoke with me and we worked out an appropriate ki cost. Allowing for higher level spells, but adding once per short rest etc. They loved fire bending, so for 4 Ki hurling a lightning bolt like in TLA put a smile on their face. And Chain lightning for 6 ki once per rest. I think it’s a fun class, and giving the PC the option to add more spells actually makes it fun and super interactive, allowing no two monks to have the same move set.
well at least fangs of the fire snake lets an lizardfolk player eat someones life essence up to 10 ft away with living fire, so that is pretty rad but other than that yeah, your max ki points able to be spent makes you pretty much an half-caster but since you learn so few disiplines you are practically less than that
also since psionic subclasses are getting real popular in the UA recently, how about an monk psion githzerai style subclass that gives you diffrent disiplines, perhaps ones more focused on enchantments and telekenesis like catapult, with an single mind bast and an mage hand like disipline (akin to the monks current elemental attunement) thrown in for flavour, i think that such an subclass, but if they decide to do something akin to that i think they should give the monk new disiplines as soon as they unlock them but have an progression more akin to third caster eldrich knights and arcane trickster rouges and also make shure they get actiual class features at 6th 11th and 17th level instead of new disiplines wich they should get as they go
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
but you dont get any spellcasting progression from multiclassing as an four elements monk
might work well with shape the flowing river if you wanna be ice mancer
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I feel like the choices are very limited and the Ki costs very high. You deal very little dmg, unless you pick the AoE spells and use them on large groups, in which case elem monk deals the most dmg of all monks I think. But otherwise I feel that:
>Limited number of features hinders ability to roleplay the subclass. For this reason elemental attunement stays in my spellist, since it's the only ability that I can use whenever.
>Even the few abiltiy you get, is quite expensive, further limiting the useage and therefore roleplay potential.
>Some abilities are straight up subpar choices, when we talk about dps or DPK (damage per ki) Water whip is my favourite abiltiy so far, but 2ki for 3d10 isn't that much when you could have punched 4 times for 1. That being said if oyu have 6 ki to literally burn, you can deadl 8d10+20 fire damage in one round at high levels with fangs of the fire snake.
>Eternal mountain defense is stupid.
>IN a way it fails to capture the Avatar fantasy, since the benders in both series use elemental bending as their core ability, not just every now and then.
>I still like the fantasy and will probably take my monk to places of elemental power, maybe craft a powerful magical item from elemental essences.
>It has a bit of versatility/trick cards to play. I once saved my dwarven companion from a collapsing temple by using water whip on him. Taking fireball/breath of winter allows you to deal huge AoE, otherwise unavaiable for monks. You can use control spells, like Wave of Rolling Earth (Wall of stone) for great utility. And elemental attunement has roleplay/stealth/deception and other utilities. (Creativity plays big role there)
>I feel like the class could use a few flavored abilities to choose from / have that enchant their basic ability.
>>Fangs of the fire snake: fire, large KI burn for Large dmg.
>>Eternal Mountain Defense (reimagined): Earth, you can spend one ki to cast blade ward on yourself. When you do so, your speed is reduced to 0 until the start of your next turn. Combine with patient defense to turtle up as hekk. No dmg tho.
>>Whirlpool throw: Whenever you are the target of a melee attack that deals no damage to you, you can take your reaction to spend one ki point and force the enemy to make a strenght saving throw or be moved to a palce 5 feet from you in any direction. The effect last until the start of your next turn, during it's duration you can repeat it a number of times equals to your dexterity or wisdom modifier (whichever is lower) minus one.
Hard time wording it, but basically you use your KI to create a water aura that you can use to push attackers around you, instead of making opportunity attacks.
>>Messenger of the South Wind. When you take the dash action and the step of the wind bonus action in the same turn and take no opportunity attacks, you regain a KI point at the start of your next turn.
Eh ,needs work. Point is, I would like to feel like someone who uses elemental disciplines and not someone who can sweat out a spell if really needed.
Here's something no one seems to have brought up and it's something I feel could help bolster the class is giving their elemental powers the ability to overcome resistance and/or immunity. But way of the four elements needed structure. like you had to choose a main element and with that you could choose a secondary but at a higher cost somehow. like main element the ki costs are halved.
They should have made Way of the Four Elements a partial caster like Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight. Use Wisdom for casting ability and limited spell list to the various elemental themed spells. Add the "newer" elemental evil spells and been done with it.
They tried to do something new and cool with tying spells to ki points and it was a failure in every way.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
It wasn’t that new. The bigger problem was that the Ki costs for the spells were the same as “Spell Point” costs from the optional rules in the DMG. It was also one of the biggest failings with the Mystic, and the “least efficient” thing to do with Sorcery Points. The problem is that the number of points to spell level is just off.
The reason it doesn’t contribute to spell slot progression when Multiclassed is because the Ki pool and the Spell Slots are completely separate so they though there was no need, but then they should be able to spend their Ki to cast any spells known.
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I’m really enjoying it, I reskinned the attacks it can do to be gravity based. Think Deva path Pain from Naruto. I mainly use unbroken fist and water whip dealing burst damage pushing and pulling my opponents. Once I burn through my ki I use magic initiate- Druid, to use gust and thorn whip to continue to push and pull my opponent, while running around the battle field trying to keep my opponents off guard, while my party attacks. I call this my Newton Monk Build-https://ddb.ac/characters/29270921/DiPG46
I think the biggest issue with the 4 elements monk is how much it relies on short rests. Most games dont actually get the two short rests per long rest the game designers claimed they intended, and the 4E monk probably goes through and relies on short rest abilities more than any other subclass.