I REALLY like the new Sorcerer. I do wish they would make some of the new spells hard class features instead of spells, Basically all of them. Some personal wishes would be they make sorcerous burst a d8 instead of a d6 but I understand why it isnt, that they would drop chaos bolt and replace it with chromatic orb. Id also like to see the sorcery incarnate restore maybe d6 sorcery point instead of a d4. Draconic wings should just activate like it did before, you're level 14 come on.
Sure it's not perfect but it shouldn't be. That's what subclasses and overlap from other arcane classes is for. No class or subclass should feel "perfect" Overall if they published it today if be happy with it.
I think the d4 sorcery points is fine for Sorcery Incarnate is fine. It's a bit away, but at 15th level they get 4 per initiative roll or Short Rest. So if you took a short rest you would have 8 sorcery points back on your first combat encounter. Plus 1d4 if you used Sorcery Incarnate.
Chaos Bolt is more iconic to the sorcerer, since it is the only unique sorcerer only spell, I believe. So I think it's a good choice. Chromatic Orb is nice, but Chaos Bolt fits better, imo.
Chaos bolt as a signature feature sure suits that clockwork soul...
Or when you're trying to make an ice themed sorcerer and keep accidently doing fire damage.
Forcing this wild magic theme on the whole class is just yuck.
I think, if it became more reliable as you leveled up, it would actually be a satisfying representation of gaining control over your innate magic. It would be a simple change, too: Just allow the player to choose from any of their rolled damage dice when determining the type. Though, right now the upscaling uses d6s. I'm guessing that was actually for tracking purposes, not for balance purposes -- in other words, to specifically avoid this functionality.
if they could swap out spells like Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul, that would be cool, and fitting for the Sorcerer.
I'd like to see sub-class lists in this style; one of the things I like most about Aberrant Mind is how it has a feature interacting with that list (free Subtle Spell), and I'd like to see more sub-classes do something similar (where it makes sense to), except they would probably also apply to the default spells.
For example, if Draconic Sorcery came loaded with a bunch of elemental spells on its sub-list, then elemental affinity could be tied to spells on the list so you're encouraged to come up with a core of boosted spells for dealing your damage with, alongside the elemental default spells. Personally I'd also like to see it become free empowered spell on elemental spells on that list (for the correct damage type) similar to how Aberrant basically gets free subtle spell on its entire list.
I think overall the numbers would be similar but with less impact to average damage on lower level spells, and more on higher level ones, but no ability to double boost (so long as they make it explicitly Empowered Spell you're getting).
Not every sub-class would need to follow the formula, as they could mess with the list in different ways; for example I could see wild magic getting a core list of spells for which wild magic is either less common, or more common, so you have the possibility of building either a list of "these are the handful of spells I can do more safely" or "these are the spells I cast when I want to lose control".
For the default Sorcerer spells, while I think that they're okay as a baseline, I'd like to see them integrated with sub-class spell lists. For example, on Draconic Sorcerer it would make sense to be able to swap chaos bolt for burning hands or chromatic orb, an Aberrant Mind might want to swap for dissonant whispers and so-on. This could be optional, so you could choose to be an unstable version of whatever sub-class you choose if you want, but the problem with default spells on the core class is when you get stuck with any you won't want to use because they're unpredictable or don't mesh with the theme quite so well.
I think, if it became more reliable as you leveled up, it would actually be a satisfying representation of gaining control over your innate magic. It would be a simple change, too: Just allow the player to choose from any of their rolled damage dice when determining the type. Though, right now the upscaling uses d6s. I'm guessing that was actually for tracking purposes, not for balance purposes -- in other words, to specifically avoid this functionality.
While I agree with the sentiment, currently the d8's also determine whether it jumps to a new target, so that would need to be accounted for somehow; otherwise a 7th-level or higher slot would be guaranteed to hit everything in range (rolling 9+ d8's will always get a double).
I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
It's not really that OP. The GM's still free to monkey-paw it as much as they want. They just can't outright take the spell away from you on top of it; which is what a lot of GM's were doing. You wish for your loved one to be brought back to life, and not only does it kick off the zombie apocalypse, but you lose wish forever. And since you're a sorc whose spell slots are limited and can only be replaced on a level-up to boot anyways...
These are kinda poor examples, if I am honest.
There are 3 uses of Wish and only 1 is a "DM can Monkeypaw".
1st use is "spell replication", you replicate the effect of any spell but it is an action, has only V component and takes effect immediately. No stresses. No Monkeypaw. You can most certainly replicate Resurrection to bring back your loved one if they died within last 100 days and the soul is free and willing. Instant cast, no components. It just happens. No zombie apocalypse or whatever.
2nd use is from a limited selection of pre-defined effects. They are as follows:
You create one object of up to 25,000 gp in value that isn't a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground.
You allow up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all hit points, and you end all effects on them described in the greater restoration spell.
You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose.
You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack.
You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish spell could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's critical hit, or a friend's failed save. You can force the reroll to be made with advantage or disadvantage, and you can choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
When using this option you take the "stress" of the Wish, however, there is no "Monkeypaw". The effects just happen as described.
The 3rd option is "anything else" you can think of. This will subject you to stress and is the only one that the DM can "Monkeypaw".
So the fact a Sorc can now spend some downtime and use the 2nd option without risk to give the entire party permanent resistance to all damage types, as an example - no monkeypaw, no risk of losing wish. Stack up expensive gold items and more such things, and can do this twice a day (use their limited wish feature to rep simulacrum, now both sim and you can make items with proper wish). And so on.
The concept of "overpowered" doesn't really make sense at the levels where you can cast Wish. Never has.
Yes, it really does. I've played multiple 20th level games and there's a massive difference between a caster that can cast Wish once, with risks, versus a caster that can cast it twice without any risk. Absolutely huge.
Use Limited Wish and a 7th level slot to cast Simulacrum of yourself: instantly and for free.
Now both Simulacrum and yourself have 9th level slots to use.
2 full wishes a day with zero risk of losing the spell.
And so many more combos.
SO MANY...
I doubt simulacrum will survive the playtest. I know a few tables it is outright banned.
Probably not. That is a poorly designed spell and extremely problematic. I don't think it should go completely, it's a fun concept, but it needs to be completely nerfed. It's the most broken spell in the game (even more so than Wish).
Even if they keep the wishmaster Sorc and just nerf Simulacrum, that will help keep some balance (although, sorcs would still be superior to any other arcane caster, especially given that wizards were nerfed and include a massive design flaw now).
For me Sim should be "yourself only" or "willing only", so you can't just Sim an enemy with a wish and instantly learn all their secrets, and shares your spell slots (if you had 3 4th level slots and it cast a 4th level spell, you both lose the 4th level slot), but I'd give it the effects of Telepathy spell which can work across planes and bump it to 8th level (or maybe 9th?). Making it more like a physical version of project image.
The more I think about it I think you are correct. Looking at the description and a comment from YouTuber Pack Tactics, with a little bit of down time you can make your entire party resistant to all damage types.
I think the d4 sorcery points is fine for Sorcery Incarnate is fine. It's a bit away, but at 15th level they get 4 per initiative roll or Short Rest. So if you took a short rest you would have 8 sorcery points back on your first combat encounter. Plus 1d4 if you used Sorcery Incarnate.
Chaos Bolt is more iconic to the sorcerer, since it is the only unique sorcerer only spell, I believe. So I think it's a good choice. Chromatic Orb is nice, but Chaos Bolt fits better, imo.
Chaos bolt as a signature feature sure suits that clockwork soul...
Or when you're trying to make an ice themed sorcerer and keep accidently doing fire damage.
Forcing this wild magic theme on the whole class is just yuck.
I think, if it became more reliable as you leveled up, it would actually be a satisfying representation of gaining control over your innate magic. It would be a simple change, too: Just allow the player to choose from any of their rolled damage dice when determining the type. Though, right now the upscaling uses d6s. I'm guessing that was actually for tracking purposes, not for balance purposes -- in other words, to specifically avoid this functionality.
I'd like to see sub-class lists in this style; one of the things I like most about Aberrant Mind is how it has a feature interacting with that list (free Subtle Spell), and I'd like to see more sub-classes do something similar (where it makes sense to), except they would probably also apply to the default spells.
For example, if Draconic Sorcery came loaded with a bunch of elemental spells on its sub-list, then elemental affinity could be tied to spells on the list so you're encouraged to come up with a core of boosted spells for dealing your damage with, alongside the elemental default spells. Personally I'd also like to see it become free empowered spell on elemental spells on that list (for the correct damage type) similar to how Aberrant basically gets free subtle spell on its entire list.
I think overall the numbers would be similar but with less impact to average damage on lower level spells, and more on higher level ones, but no ability to double boost (so long as they make it explicitly Empowered Spell you're getting).
Not every sub-class would need to follow the formula, as they could mess with the list in different ways; for example I could see wild magic getting a core list of spells for which wild magic is either less common, or more common, so you have the possibility of building either a list of "these are the handful of spells I can do more safely" or "these are the spells I cast when I want to lose control".
For the default Sorcerer spells, while I think that they're okay as a baseline, I'd like to see them integrated with sub-class spell lists. For example, on Draconic Sorcerer it would make sense to be able to swap chaos bolt for burning hands or chromatic orb, an Aberrant Mind might want to swap for dissonant whispers and so-on. This could be optional, so you could choose to be an unstable version of whatever sub-class you choose if you want, but the problem with default spells on the core class is when you get stuck with any you won't want to use because they're unpredictable or don't mesh with the theme quite so well.
While I agree with the sentiment, currently the d8's also determine whether it jumps to a new target, so that would need to be accounted for somehow; otherwise a 7th-level or higher slot would be guaranteed to hit everything in range (rolling 9+ d8's will always get a double).
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The more I think about it I think you are correct. Looking at the description and a comment from YouTuber Pack Tactics, with a little bit of down time you can make your entire party resistant to all damage types.