Sorcerous Bolt, though I really don't think that's a good idea, several people have already said sorcerer should be rolled into Warlock, and giving it an EB equivalent would not help it's case.
EB? Evil Beam? Enchanter's Burst? Eldritch... Blast? That's a good name for this new cantrip, yeah!
Maybe this new Sorcerer could get to choose from some features like... Getting to cast a situational spell like Jump or Speak With Dead for free? That would help them with their limited spell slots. And maybe some features to add spells like Bane or Confusion to their spell list -- or if that's too powerful, make it so they can cast them only once with their Sorcerer spell slots, per rest. That would help alleviate the known spells problem! You could even give them options to use weapons and armor, to satisfy those folks who wanted Sorcerer to be a gish class.
I'm really digging this new design for the Sorcerer. Maybe we could even make a subclass that focuses on specializing in an elemental damage type, kinda like how genies have innate magic. Everybody seems to want that.
Yeah, I can see no real downsides to this. Finally, the Sorcerer would get to shine as the Charisma caster with its own unique take on spellcasting! Maybe, since the magic comes from within, the spell slots could refresh on a short rest?
Seriously. Make magic missile a sorcerer cantrip. There's your EB alternative without having to design something new. Even more so, take Magic Missile off of other spell lists, so it is the sorcerer specific cantrip.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
For something unique to sorcerers I'd much rather lean into the fact that your casting is innate, so spells that emphasise the advantages and dangers of that would make sense, like some kind of damaging spells that can optionally deal additional damage to both the target and the caster, maybe life transference (to others) as an alternative to ordinary healing (especially as sorcerers don't have the largest health pools to begin with).
Alternatively one feature I had considered suggesting would be something like the following around 10-12th level:
Blood Magic
By pushing the limits of your own endurance you can draw upon additional power in times of need. Whenever you would normally spend Sorcery Points, you may spend your Sorcerer hit die at a cost of two die per Sorcery Point you wish to create.
This would give Sorcerers 50% more Sorcery Points, at a major cost to their ability to recover HP during short rests, could even come earlier since you have fewer Sorcery Points anyway. I'm not sure how balanced it would be in practice though, as I've played plenty of campaigns where the DM is too lenient in allowing long rests, so short rests weren't that common, meaning it could be overpowered.
But yeah, I think if we're to get some unique spells they should either be unusual, intuitive things, or actively risky to use; this would help develop more of a niche from Warlock.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
My take is that Blood Magic is the kind of thing that would be more suited to a specific subclass of sorcerer rather than on the primary hull. It's too thematic to attach to the base class. I automatically think Dragon Age when I see blood mage, and yeah that's like an entire forbidden path.
Magi-Magi-Pretty-Destro-Blast? Flavor mage armor as a transformation sequence?
Anyways, I do kind of agree that a single signature cantrip, especially one of the 'bolt' variety that is customizable, is too... warlock-like. I prefer my option because nothing's stopping other classes from taking the spell, but a sorcerer can use said spell in ways that are unconventional. So just because a sorc and a wizard are casting fireball doesn't mean that they're casting the SAME fireball. Like, I dunno, maybe the sorc can turn the ground it strikes into a flaming area for a bit for 2 sorc points or something?
A lingering effect metamagic would be super cool but also incredibly difficult considering how vastly different all the spells are, unless you make it something generic as "CHA mod Force damage if a creature ends its turn in the area with a minimum area size of 5x5" or such
Couldn't it be something like:
Lingering Magic:
When a target takes damage from one of your sorcerer spells, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cause the damaging effect to linger. At the start of the targets next turn they take 1d4 times the spells level damage, of the same damage type as the initial spell.
Or something like that? I think that would cover most damage spells. And SP cost or damage amount could be adjusted, I just threw those numbers in there.
Magi-Magi-Pretty-Destro-Blast? Flavor mage armor as a transformation sequence?
Anyways, I do kind of agree that a single signature cantrip, especially one of the 'bolt' variety that is customizable, is too... warlock-like. I prefer my option because nothing's stopping other classes from taking the spell, but a sorcerer can use said spell in ways that are unconventional. So just because a sorc and a wizard are casting fireball doesn't mean that they're casting the SAME fireball. Like, I dunno, maybe the sorc can turn the ground it strikes into a flaming area for a bit for 2 sorc points or something?
A lingering effect metamagic would be super cool but also incredibly difficult considering how vastly different all the spells are, unless you make it something generic as "CHA mod Force damage if a creature ends its turn in the area with a minimum area size of 5x5" or such
Couldn't it be something like:
Lingering Magic:
When a target takes damage from one of your sorcerer spells, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cause the damaging effect to linger. At the start of the targets next turn they take 1d4 times the spells level damage, of the same damage type as the initial spell.
Or something like that? I think that would cover most damage spells. And SP cost or damage amount could be adjusted, I just threw those numbers in there.
That was just an example of how it could be done with one particular effect on one particular spell. The idea is that the, Sorcerous Infusion I guess, is something that's varied and unique for each spell that gets one. For Fireball it might be a lingering damage effect, but it might be something different for a different spell. Maybe absorb elements lets you convert some of the absorbed damage into temp HP or slap it onto a cantrip or something. Or Charm Person loses the 'they know you did it' aspect of the spell. My point here is that whatever changes that could be done would be written into the spell itself instead of as an independent meta-magic.
I feel like if you added text to every spell describing what happens if a Sorcerer uses it, what happens next is every single non-Sorcerer caster player starts looking for ways to unlock those bonuses. And by looking, I mean begging their DMs.
I realize the intent of the "Enchanter's Beam" wasn't particularly serious, but I actually do think it's a good idea
A cantrip they can use a wide range of metamagic options on, however it would be implemented, wouldn't be much like Eldritch Blast at all other than being "here's a signature attack for the class". It's not like sorcerers wouldn't also be throwing out plenty of fireballs and such as well. It might even act as sort of a training program for players who don't have much experience with the class so they can try out different metamagics with the cantrip before deciding whether to add them to their arsenal for real
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You don’t want to get overly complicated with a lot of tracking. WotC streamlined 5E for a reason. The Lingering magic I just did damage because it’s easy. Wouldn’t most charm effects be concentration anyway so they already linger? Seems like a bunch of instantaneous effects are damage anyway but I could be wrong, I’m no expert on spells
I know that lingering effects was just an example. But things like this could be subclass features. I think I mentioned this before but I could see Heightened and Empowered metamagic being core class features and not metamagic at all. Then add more metamagic options and more metamagics known (they are already limited uses by SP anyway) and the expanded spell list per subclass would be a good start.
My only issues with the arcane flare thing up there is I think 1d6 might be a bit low for a signature (firebolt is 1d10) and can we PLEASE change it to frost or lightning or... just anything OTHER than fire? Fire makes it feel like an inferior fire bolt and extremely generic. Maybe have the element decided by subclass? A quick one-line ability like 'Divine Flare: Sorcerous Flare deals radiant damage instead of fire' I don't know, just... Not fire.
My only issues with the arcane flare thing up there is I think 1d6 might be a bit low for a signature (firebolt is 1d10) and can we PLEASE change it to frost or lightning or... just anything OTHER than fire? Fire makes it feel like an inferior fire bolt and extremely generic. Maybe have the element decided by subclass? A quick one-line ability like 'Divine Flare: Sorcerous Flare deals radiant damage instead of fire' I don't know, just... Not fire.
I slapped that together in about a minute, and waffling between d6 and d8 took up most of the time. I don't think it would be overpowered as a d8, but I can see some people reacting in horror at the idea of a 1d8 bonus action attack to pair with Fire Bolt at 1st level
As for the damage type, yeah, fire was just the default. I wanted to keep it in the Transmute family, but it could be lightning or something just as easily that still fits the "flare of energy" idea
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Nevermind. Don't know why I thought you needed the metamagic to use the related part of the spell. No matter, I don't think it's too big a concern for a level 1 or 2 spell, especially since people usually want to SURVIVE the first two levels.
The problem with this approach is suddenly those spells basically become Sorcerer requirements, like how Twin and Quickened metamagic are, because they are the most useful. If Spell A has incredible flexibility for you with multiple uses and Spell B only has one use, why would you not choose Spell A? Sure, people can choose other options based on roleplay, based on build, etc. But I feel like this change provides a 'best' option to take in the general sense, which influences towards homogeneity.
Historically that sorceror only internally powered cantrip/spell magi-magi-whatever was called spellfire in 3.5 and it wasn’t force it was raw magic and was perhaps the only thing that could burn thru a wall of force and keep going. It also allowed the wielder to absorb magical energy with little/no harm and then send it back in altered form now there is an ability that would differentiate the sorceror from all other casters - the rechargeable magical battery. Maybe allow them PB times/SR to absorb any spell that they are a target of converting it into sorcery points at the going rates then using those points to create a slot of matching level for one of their own spells even if of a different school/element/damage type from the absorbed spell.
Historically that sorceror only internally powered cantrip/spell magi-magi-whatever was called spellfire in 3.5 and it wasn’t force it was raw magic and was perhaps the only thing that could burn thru a wall of force and keep going. It also allowed the wielder to absorb magical energy with little/no harm and then send it back in altered form now there is an ability that would differentiate the sorceror from all other casters - the rechargeable magical battery. Maybe allow them PB times/SR to absorb any spell that they are a target of converting it into sorcery points at the going rates then using those points to create a slot of matching level for one of their own spells even if of a different school/element/damage type from the absorbed spell.
It would differentiate them from all casters except the Arcane Trickster, yeah. They get a feature called Spell Thief, taken from the 3.5 class of the same name, which got this functionality as part of its core kit. I've never seen this spellfire thing, though iirc it's what the ex-Witch Queen, current open Lord of Waterdeep uses as her sort of unique magic ability in Dragon Heist. And she's a Sorcerer. Or she's close enough.
How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
EB? Evil Beam? Enchanter's Burst? Eldritch... Blast? That's a good name for this new cantrip, yeah!
Maybe this new Sorcerer could get to choose from some features like... Getting to cast a situational spell like Jump or Speak With Dead for free? That would help them with their limited spell slots. And maybe some features to add spells like Bane or Confusion to their spell list -- or if that's too powerful, make it so they can cast them only once with their Sorcerer spell slots, per rest. That would help alleviate the known spells problem! You could even give them options to use weapons and armor, to satisfy those folks who wanted Sorcerer to be a gish class.
I'm really digging this new design for the Sorcerer. Maybe we could even make a subclass that focuses on specializing in an elemental damage type, kinda like how genies have innate magic. Everybody seems to want that.
Yeah, I can see no real downsides to this. Finally, the Sorcerer would get to shine as the Charisma caster with its own unique take on spellcasting! Maybe, since the magic comes from within, the spell slots could refresh on a short rest?
Seriously. Make magic missile a sorcerer cantrip. There's your EB alternative without having to design something new. Even more so, take Magic Missile off of other spell lists, so it is the sorcerer specific cantrip.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
For something unique to sorcerers I'd much rather lean into the fact that your casting is innate, so spells that emphasise the advantages and dangers of that would make sense, like some kind of damaging spells that can optionally deal additional damage to both the target and the caster, maybe life transference (to others) as an alternative to ordinary healing (especially as sorcerers don't have the largest health pools to begin with).
Alternatively one feature I had considered suggesting would be something like the following around 10-12th level:
This would give Sorcerers 50% more Sorcery Points, at a major cost to their ability to recover HP during short rests, could even come earlier since you have fewer Sorcery Points anyway. I'm not sure how balanced it would be in practice though, as I've played plenty of campaigns where the DM is too lenient in allowing long rests, so short rests weren't that common, meaning it could be overpowered.
But yeah, I think if we're to get some unique spells they should either be unusual, intuitive things, or actively risky to use; this would help develop more of a niche from Warlock.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
My take is that Blood Magic is the kind of thing that would be more suited to a specific subclass of sorcerer rather than on the primary hull. It's too thematic to attach to the base class. I automatically think Dragon Age when I see blood mage, and yeah that's like an entire forbidden path.
Couldn't it be something like:
Lingering Magic:
When a target takes damage from one of your sorcerer spells, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cause the damaging effect to linger. At the start of the targets next turn they take 1d4 times the spells level damage, of the same damage type as the initial spell.
Or something like that? I think that would cover most damage spells. And SP cost or damage amount could be adjusted, I just threw those numbers in there.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That was just an example of how it could be done with one particular effect on one particular spell. The idea is that the, Sorcerous Infusion I guess, is something that's varied and unique for each spell that gets one. For Fireball it might be a lingering damage effect, but it might be something different for a different spell. Maybe absorb elements lets you convert some of the absorbed damage into temp HP or slap it onto a cantrip or something. Or Charm Person loses the 'they know you did it' aspect of the spell. My point here is that whatever changes that could be done would be written into the spell itself instead of as an independent meta-magic.
I feel like if you added text to every spell describing what happens if a Sorcerer uses it, what happens next is every single non-Sorcerer caster player starts looking for ways to unlock those bonuses. And by looking, I mean begging their DMs.
I don't like that move at all.
Doesn't need to be every spell. Just a few.
I realize the intent of the "Enchanter's Beam" wasn't particularly serious, but I actually do think it's a good idea
A cantrip they can use a wide range of metamagic options on, however it would be implemented, wouldn't be much like Eldritch Blast at all other than being "here's a signature attack for the class". It's not like sorcerers wouldn't also be throwing out plenty of fireballs and such as well. It might even act as sort of a training program for players who don't have much experience with the class so they can try out different metamagics with the cantrip before deciding whether to add them to their arsenal for real
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You don’t want to get overly complicated with a lot of tracking. WotC streamlined 5E for a reason. The Lingering magic I just did damage because it’s easy. Wouldn’t most charm effects be concentration anyway so they already linger? Seems like a bunch of instantaneous effects are damage anyway but I could be wrong, I’m no expert on spells
I know that lingering effects was just an example. But things like this could be subclass features. I think I mentioned this before but I could see Heightened and Empowered metamagic being core class features and not metamagic at all. Then add more metamagic options and more metamagics known (they are already limited uses by SP anyway) and the expanded spell list per subclass would be a good start.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
My only issues with the arcane flare thing up there is I think 1d6 might be a bit low for a signature (firebolt is 1d10) and can we PLEASE change it to frost or lightning or... just anything OTHER than fire? Fire makes it feel like an inferior fire bolt and extremely generic. Maybe have the element decided by subclass? A quick one-line ability like 'Divine Flare: Sorcerous Flare deals radiant damage instead of fire' I don't know, just... Not fire.
I slapped that together in about a minute, and waffling between d6 and d8 took up most of the time. I don't think it would be overpowered as a d8, but I can see some people reacting in horror at the idea of a 1d8 bonus action attack to pair with Fire Bolt at 1st level
As for the damage type, yeah, fire was just the default. I wanted to keep it in the Transmute family, but it could be lightning or something just as easily that still fits the "flare of energy" idea
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Nevermind. Don't know why I thought you needed the metamagic to use the related part of the spell. No matter, I don't think it's too big a concern for a level 1 or 2 spell, especially since people usually want to SURVIVE the first two levels.
The problem with this approach is suddenly those spells basically become Sorcerer requirements, like how Twin and Quickened metamagic are, because they are the most useful. If Spell A has incredible flexibility for you with multiple uses and Spell B only has one use, why would you not choose Spell A? Sure, people can choose other options based on roleplay, based on build, etc. But I feel like this change provides a 'best' option to take in the general sense, which influences towards homogeneity.
Historically that sorceror only internally powered cantrip/spell magi-magi-whatever was called spellfire in 3.5 and it wasn’t force it was raw magic and was perhaps the only thing that could burn thru a wall of force and keep going. It also allowed the wielder to absorb magical energy with little/no harm and then send it back in altered form now there is an ability that would differentiate the sorceror from all other casters - the rechargeable magical battery. Maybe allow them PB times/SR to absorb any spell that they are a target of converting it into sorcery points at the going rates then using those points to create a slot of matching level for one of their own spells even if of a different school/element/damage type from the absorbed spell.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It would differentiate them from all casters except the Arcane Trickster, yeah. They get a feature called Spell Thief, taken from the 3.5 class of the same name, which got this functionality as part of its core kit. I've never seen this spellfire thing, though iirc it's what the ex-Witch Queen, current open Lord of Waterdeep uses as her sort of unique magic ability in Dragon Heist. And she's a Sorcerer. Or she's close enough.
How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?