it does seem promising. they have actually hit most of things we most wanted - * more spells known (they are calling them prepared but they are really still known with the ability to change 1 spell out each new level) * more metamagic (3 at the start and 6 overall) with revamped versions (I suspect quickened is the new twin) * a couple of (high level) ways to regain sorcery points (would be nice if there were one down in tiers1/2 where its most needed) * a way for sorcerors to heal themselves
There are a few things I'm sure we will complain about: ** the nerf of twinned spell - Its already clear no one likes this as everyone really liked the old version. On the other hand the old version was really fairly OP and this gives us a chance to reset our expectations to something more in line with the rest of spellcasting. Quickened still gives us 2 spells in a round but they both have to be cantrips. * the self healing is "not enough/ too little, too late" maybe they will up the healing or something here * the ever present "we still aren't getting enough metamagic and sorcery points" I suspect nothing short of infinity will please some folks.
Quickened still gives us 2 spells in a round but they both have to be cantrips.
I don't think this is correct; you can still quicken a levelled spell, but if you then cast a spell as an action then that has to be a cantrip. They've basically just added the text on bonus action casting to the metamagic; personally I'd prefer them to just make "one levelled spell per turn" the rule and make exceptions where necessary for things like counterspell and similar, because they're still leaving open double casting through things like war caster (though I'm not sure we've seen an updated version of that feat yet?).
* the self healing is "not enough/ too little, too late" maybe they will up the healing or something here
I'm hoping they'll up the healing and make the condition removal something that costs some of that healing; currently sorcerous vitality is best value when you can use it to both heal and clear a condition, but how often can you wait for that to be possible? When you're only doing one of these the value isn't great; better than nothing though.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
it does seem promising. they have actually hit most of things we most wanted - * more spells known (they are calling them prepared but they are really still known with the ability to change 1 spell out each new level) * more metamagic (3 at the start and 6 overall) with revamped versions (I suspect quickened is the new twin) * a couple of (high level) ways to regain sorcery points (would be nice if there were one down in tiers1/2 where its most needed) * a way for sorcerors to heal themselves
There are a few things I'm sure we will complain about: ** the nerf of twinned spell - Its already clear no one likes this as everyone really liked the old version. On the other hand the old version was really fairly OP and this gives us a chance to reset our expectations to something more in line with the rest of spellcasting. Quickened still gives us 2 spells in a round but they both have to be cantrips. * the self healing is "not enough/ too little, too late" maybe they will up the healing or something here * the ever present "we still aren't getting enough metamagic and sorcery points" I suspect nothing short of infinity will please some folks.
Not sure what you mean. They just clarified that if you cast a BA spell you can’t cast a leveled spell as an action. So you can still quicken Fireball then use firebolt
Either this was just a clarification or they are changing the spell casting rules for BA spells and wrote Quickened so it couldn’t exploit the changes rules.
You may be right - hope you are BUT, when I read “you can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a spell of 1st level or higher on the current turn, nor can you cast a spell of 1st level or higher on this turn after modifying a spell in this way” as saying that you can’t cast a quickened spell (even a cantrip) if you have already cast a L1+ spell this turn - so the quickened spell has to go first, AND (after the nor) if you quicken and cast a cantrip first you can’t cast a L1+ spell after it ( but could cast a 1 action cantrip) between the two this limits you to casting a quickened cantrip followed by a regular (1 action) cantrip. This seems to limit the use to casting 2 cantrips in a single turn/round, which is still decent but not as good as being able to cast a quickened cantrip then a leveled spell or a quickened level spell and then a second 1 action leveled spell
You can still do a Cantrip and a Levelled Spell, in either order.
The UA did not change how Quickened Spell works - it just clarified the Bonus Action casting rules there because people were overlooking it.
It still functions exactly the same as it did before.
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I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
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I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
It is quite powerful. But I don’t know it is way OP. Being able to cast a 1-8 spell for free, if you have the spell slot available, is nice. So you can cast a spell you don’t have prepared and from any spell list with one of your slots.
And having no chance to lose Wish is good as well. I think that’s more powerful because you can be as reckless as you want once per long rest. This is the most OP part.
I don’t see this surviving the playtest unscathed.
Use Limited Wish and a 7th level slot to cast Simulacrum of yourself: instantly and for free.
Now both Simulacrum and yourself have 9th level slots to use.
2 full wishes a day with zero risk of losing the spell.
And so many more combos.
SO MANY...
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I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
It's not really that OP. The GM's still free to monkey-paw it as much as they want. They just can't outright take the spell away from you on top of it; which is what a lot of GM's were doing. You wish for your loved one to be brought back to life, and not only does it kick off the zombie apocalypse, but you lose wish forever. And since you're a sorc whose spell slots are limited and can only be replaced on a level-up to boot anyways...
I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
It's not really that OP. The GM's still free to monkey-paw it as much as they want. They just can't outright take the spell away from you on top of it; which is what a lot of GM's were doing. You wish for your loved one to be brought back to life, and not only does it kick off the zombie apocalypse, but you lose wish forever. And since you're a sorc whose spell slots are limited and can only be replaced on a level-up to boot anyways...
These are kinda poor examples, if I am honest.
There are 3 uses of Wish and only 1 is a "DM can Monkeypaw".
1st use is "spell replication", you replicate the effect of any spell but it is an action, has only V component and takes effect immediately. No stresses. No Monkeypaw. You can most certainly replicate Resurrection to bring back your loved one if they died within last 100 days and the soul is free and willing. Instant cast, no components. It just happens. No zombie apocalypse or whatever.
2nd use is from a limited selection of pre-defined effects. They are as follows:
You create one object of up to 25,000 gp in value that isn't a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground.
You allow up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all hit points, and you end all effects on them described in the greater restoration spell.
You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose.
You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack.
You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish spell could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's critical hit, or a friend's failed save. You can force the reroll to be made with advantage or disadvantage, and you can choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
When using this option you take the "stress" of the Wish, however, there is no "Monkeypaw". The effects just happen as described.
The 3rd option is "anything else" you can think of. This will subject you to stress and is the only one that the DM can "Monkeypaw".
So the fact a Sorc can now spend some downtime and use the 2nd option without risk to give the entire party permanent resistance to all damage types, as an example - no monkeypaw, no risk of losing wish. Stack up expensive gold items and more such things, and can do this twice a day (use their limited wish feature to rep simulacrum, now both sim and you can make items with proper wish). And so on.
The concept of "overpowered" doesn't really make sense at the levels where you can cast Wish. Never has.
Yes, it really does. I've played multiple 20th level games and there's a massive difference between a caster that can cast Wish once, with risks, versus a caster that can cast it twice without any risk. Absolutely huge.
Use Limited Wish and a 7th level slot to cast Simulacrum of yourself: instantly and for free.
Now both Simulacrum and yourself have 9th level slots to use.
2 full wishes a day with zero risk of losing the spell.
And so many more combos.
SO MANY...
I doubt simulacrum will survive the playtest. I know a few tables it is outright banned.
Probably not. That is a poorly designed spell and extremely problematic. I don't think it should go completely, it's a fun concept, but it needs to be completely nerfed. It's the most broken spell in the game (even more so than Wish).
Even if they keep the wishmaster Sorc and just nerf Simulacrum, that will help keep some balance (although, sorcs would still be superior to any other arcane caster, especially given that wizards were nerfed and include a massive design flaw now).
For me Sim should be "yourself only" or "willing only", so you can't just Sim an enemy with a wish and instantly learn all their secrets, and shares your spell slots (if you had 3 4th level slots and it cast a 4th level spell, you both lose the 4th level slot), but I'd give it the effects of Telepathy spell which can work across planes and bump it to 8th level (or maybe 9th?). Making it more like a physical version of project image.
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The random nonsense seems to be kept to a minimum which I am very grateful for, and metamagics seem a bit more evenly balanced between each other which is good. Overall not what I wanted, but acceptable.
Well after looking at the 1dnd playtest sorcerer, it's literally every single thing I didn't want, and not a single thing I wanted.
Hrrrmmmmm…… so you didn’t want more spells known, more metamagic, more ways to recover sorcery points, some way to heal yourself at least a little. So just what did you want?
I REALLY like the new Sorcerer. I do wish they would make some of the new spells hard class features instead of spells, Basically all of them. Some personal wishes would be they make sorcerous burst a d8 instead of a d6 but I understand why it isnt, that they would drop chaos bolt and replace it with chromatic orb. Id also like to see the sorcery incarnate restore maybe d6 sorcery point instead of a d4. Draconic wings should just activate like it did before, you're level 14 come on.
Sure it's not perfect but it shouldn't be. That's what subclasses and overlap from other arcane classes is for. No class or subclass should feel "perfect" Overall if they published it today if be happy with it.
Well after looking at the 1dnd playtest sorcerer, it's literally every single thing I didn't want, and not a single thing I wanted.
Hrrrmmmmm…… so you didn’t want more spells known, more metamagic, more ways to recover sorcery points, some way to heal yourself at least a little. So just what did you want?
I mean.... I liked the DnDNext playtest sorcerer, so take from that what you will.
Was hoping for spell point casting, and more power being moved into the subclass so that sorcerer is more defined by its subclass. Origin spells for all bloodlines rather than just a blanket generic more spells known.
Compared to later subclasses like tasha's entries, power has been moved away from the subclasses and into the base class. I guess people just want their sorcerer to be 'wizard but hot'
Well after looking at the 1dnd playtest sorcerer, it's literally every single thing I didn't want, and not a single thing I wanted.
Hrrrmmmmm…… so you didn’t want more spells known, more metamagic, more ways to recover sorcery points, some way to heal yourself at least a little. So just what did you want?
I mean.... I liked the DnDNext playtest sorcerer, so take from that what you will.
Was hoping for spell point casting, and more power being moved into the subclass so that sorcerer is more defined by its subclass. Origin spells for all bloodlines rather than just a blanket generic more spells known.
Compared to later subclasses like tasha's entries, power has been moved away from the subclasses and into the base class. I guess people just want their sorcerer to be 'wizard but hot'
I doubt spell points will ever be a thing other than an option in the DMG (will it even be in the 2024 DMG?). I was a little bummed that they didn't have subclass spells. But considering they have access to the entire Arcane list and have more spells known maybe they thought it would be too much trying to make up subclass spell lists out of Divine/Primal spells, if they didn't go with Arcane spells that are always prepared. Which would put them with more spells prepared than anyone else. But if they get enough responses in the survey maybe they would reduce the number of spells you can prepare and make it up via the subclass specific lists. And if they could swap out spells like Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul, that would be cool, and fitting for the Sorcerer.
it does seem promising. they have actually hit most of things we most wanted -
* more spells known (they are calling them prepared but they are really still known with the ability to change 1 spell out each new level)
* more metamagic (3 at the start and 6 overall) with revamped versions (I suspect quickened is the new twin)
* a couple of (high level) ways to regain sorcery points (would be nice if there were one down in tiers1/2 where its most needed)
* a way for sorcerors to heal themselves
There are a few things I'm sure we will complain about:
** the nerf of twinned spell - Its already clear no one likes this as everyone really liked the old version. On the other hand the old version was really fairly OP and this gives us a chance to reset our expectations to something more in line with the rest of spellcasting. Quickened still gives us 2 spells in a round but they both have to be cantrips.
* the self healing is "not enough/ too little, too late" maybe they will up the healing or something here
* the ever present "we still aren't getting enough metamagic and sorcery points" I suspect nothing short of infinity will please some folks.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I don't think this is correct; you can still quicken a levelled spell, but if you then cast a spell as an action then that has to be a cantrip. They've basically just added the text on bonus action casting to the metamagic; personally I'd prefer them to just make "one levelled spell per turn" the rule and make exceptions where necessary for things like counterspell and similar, because they're still leaving open double casting through things like war caster (though I'm not sure we've seen an updated version of that feat yet?).
I'm hoping they'll up the healing and make the condition removal something that costs some of that healing; currently sorcerous vitality is best value when you can use it to both heal and clear a condition, but how often can you wait for that to be possible? When you're only doing one of these the value isn't great; better than nothing though.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Not sure what you mean. They just clarified that if you cast a BA spell you can’t cast a leveled spell as an action. So you can still quicken Fireball then use firebolt
Either this was just a clarification or they are changing the spell casting rules for BA spells and wrote Quickened so it couldn’t exploit the changes rules.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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You beat me to it Haravikk
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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You may be right - hope you are BUT, when I read “you can’t modify a spell in this way if you’ve already cast a spell of 1st level or higher on the current turn, nor can you cast a spell of 1st level or higher on this turn after modifying a spell in this way” as saying that you can’t cast a quickened spell (even a cantrip) if you have already cast a L1+ spell this turn - so the quickened spell has to go first, AND (after the nor) if you quicken and cast a cantrip first you can’t cast a L1+ spell after it ( but could cast a 1 action cantrip) between the two this limits you to casting a quickened cantrip followed by a regular (1 action) cantrip. This seems to limit the use to casting 2 cantrips in a single turn/round, which is still decent but not as good as being able to cast a quickened cantrip then a leveled spell or a quickened level spell and then a second 1 action leveled spell
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
You can use action and bonus action in any order.
Action: Cantrip >> Quickened BA Levelled
and
Quicked BA Levelled >> Action: Cantrip
are both valid.
You can still do a Cantrip and a Levelled Spell, in either order.
The UA did not change how Quickened Spell works - it just clarified the Bonus Action casting rules there because people were overlooking it.
It still functions exactly the same as it did before.
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I also am surprised that, again, nobody is mentioning how Sorcs are now the most powerful 5th casters?
They can use a spell-rep Wish once a day for free. They can also, on top of that free limited wish, use a full wish without any risk of losing it.
I don't think anyone is quite grasping how batshit-cuckoo--crazy-wackadoodle OP that is.
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From the Quicken metamagic UA.
So if you already cast a leveled spell you can’t modify (quicken) a leveled spell or cantrip
If you already quickened a spell you can’t cast a leveled spell.
So it is the same as the 2014 metamagic and complies with the BA casting rules
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It is quite powerful. But I don’t know it is way OP. Being able to cast a 1-8 spell for free, if you have the spell slot available, is nice. So you can cast a spell you don’t have prepared and from any spell list with one of your slots.
And having no chance to lose Wish is good as well. I think that’s more powerful because you can be as reckless as you want once per long rest. This is the most OP part.
I don’t see this surviving the playtest unscathed.
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Use Limited Wish and a 7th level slot to cast Simulacrum of yourself: instantly and for free.
Now both Simulacrum and yourself have 9th level slots to use.
2 full wishes a day with zero risk of losing the spell.
And so many more combos.
SO MANY...
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It's not really that OP. The GM's still free to monkey-paw it as much as they want. They just can't outright take the spell away from you on top of it; which is what a lot of GM's were doing. You wish for your loved one to be brought back to life, and not only does it kick off the zombie apocalypse, but you lose wish forever. And since you're a sorc whose spell slots are limited and can only be replaced on a level-up to boot anyways...
The concept of "overpowered" doesn't really make sense at the levels where you can cast Wish. Never has.
I doubt simulacrum will survive the playtest. I know a few tables it is outright banned.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
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These are kinda poor examples, if I am honest.
There are 3 uses of Wish and only 1 is a "DM can Monkeypaw".
1st use is "spell replication", you replicate the effect of any spell but it is an action, has only V component and takes effect immediately. No stresses. No Monkeypaw. You can most certainly replicate Resurrection to bring back your loved one if they died within last 100 days and the soul is free and willing. Instant cast, no components. It just happens. No zombie apocalypse or whatever.
2nd use is from a limited selection of pre-defined effects. They are as follows:
When using this option you take the "stress" of the Wish, however, there is no "Monkeypaw". The effects just happen as described.
The 3rd option is "anything else" you can think of. This will subject you to stress and is the only one that the DM can "Monkeypaw".
So the fact a Sorc can now spend some downtime and use the 2nd option without risk to give the entire party permanent resistance to all damage types, as an example - no monkeypaw, no risk of losing wish. Stack up expensive gold items and more such things, and can do this twice a day (use their limited wish feature to rep simulacrum, now both sim and you can make items with proper wish). And so on.
Yes, it really does. I've played multiple 20th level games and there's a massive difference between a caster that can cast Wish once, with risks, versus a caster that can cast it twice without any risk. Absolutely huge.
Probably not. That is a poorly designed spell and extremely problematic. I don't think it should go completely, it's a fun concept, but it needs to be completely nerfed. It's the most broken spell in the game (even more so than Wish).
Even if they keep the wishmaster Sorc and just nerf Simulacrum, that will help keep some balance (although, sorcs would still be superior to any other arcane caster, especially given that wizards were nerfed and include a massive design flaw now).
For me Sim should be "yourself only" or "willing only", so you can't just Sim an enemy with a wish and instantly learn all their secrets, and shares your spell slots (if you had 3 4th level slots and it cast a 4th level spell, you both lose the 4th level slot), but I'd give it the effects of Telepathy spell which can work across planes and bump it to 8th level (or maybe 9th?). Making it more like a physical version of project image.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The random nonsense seems to be kept to a minimum which I am very grateful for, and metamagics seem a bit more evenly balanced between each other which is good. Overall not what I wanted, but acceptable.
Well after looking at the 1dnd playtest sorcerer, it's literally every single thing I didn't want, and not a single thing I wanted.
Hrrrmmmmm……
so you didn’t want more spells known, more metamagic, more ways to recover sorcery points, some way to heal yourself at least a little. So just what did you want?
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I REALLY like the new Sorcerer. I do wish they would make some of the new spells hard class features instead of spells, Basically all of them. Some personal wishes would be they make sorcerous burst a d8 instead of a d6 but I understand why it isnt, that they would drop chaos bolt and replace it with chromatic orb. Id also like to see the sorcery incarnate restore maybe d6 sorcery point instead of a d4. Draconic wings should just activate like it did before, you're level 14 come on.
Sure it's not perfect but it shouldn't be. That's what subclasses and overlap from other arcane classes is for. No class or subclass should feel "perfect" Overall if they published it today if be happy with it.
I mean.... I liked the DnDNext playtest sorcerer, so take from that what you will.
Was hoping for spell point casting, and more power being moved into the subclass so that sorcerer is more defined by its subclass. Origin spells for all bloodlines rather than just a blanket generic more spells known.
Compared to later subclasses like tasha's entries, power has been moved away from the subclasses and into the base class. I guess people just want their sorcerer to be 'wizard but hot'
I doubt spell points will ever be a thing other than an option in the DMG (will it even be in the 2024 DMG?). I was a little bummed that they didn't have subclass spells. But considering they have access to the entire Arcane list and have more spells known maybe they thought it would be too much trying to make up subclass spell lists out of Divine/Primal spells, if they didn't go with Arcane spells that are always prepared. Which would put them with more spells prepared than anyone else. But if they get enough responses in the survey maybe they would reduce the number of spells you can prepare and make it up via the subclass specific lists. And if they could swap out spells like Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul, that would be cool, and fitting for the Sorcerer.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?