How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?
Yeah, but it also negates the spell's effect against them. See also: Staff of the Magi.
How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?
Yeah, but it also negates the spell's effect against them. See also: Staff of the Magi.
The staff's version
Spell Absorption. While holding the staff, you have advantage on saving throws against spells. In addition, you can use your reaction when another creature casts a spell that targets only you. If you do, the staff absorbs the magic of the spell, canceling its effect and gaining a number of charges equal to the absorbed spell's level.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?
Yeah, but it also negates the spell's effect against them. See also: Staff of the Magi.
The staff's version
Spell Absorption. While holding the staff, you have advantage on saving throws against spells. In addition, you can use your reaction when another creature casts a spell that targets only you. If you do, the staff absorbs the magic of the spell, canceling its effect and gaining a number of charges equal to the absorbed spell's level.
That would be a cool idea. And unlike some of the other great suggestions on this thread it would be easy to implement on all sorcerers as a class feature and keep the backwards compatibility they are going for. Just add it to X level sorcerer and away you go.
How would that work? Like, when they get hit with an enemy spell they can choose to gain Sorc Points equal to that spells level (cantrip 1) for a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus per long rest? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way?
Yeah, but it also negates the spell's effect against them. See also: Staff of the Magi.
The staff's version
Spell Absorption. While holding the staff, you have advantage on saving throws against spells. In addition, you can use your reaction when another creature casts a spell that targets only you. If you do, the staff absorbs the magic of the spell, canceling its effect and gaining a number of charges equal to the absorbed spell's level.
That would be a cool idea. And unlike some of the other great suggestions on this thread it would be easy to implement on all sorcerers as a class feature and keep the backwards compatibility they are going for. Just add it to X level sorcerer and away you go.
I would think "X level" would have to be fairly high if you were giving sorcerers multiple free uses of a hyper counterspell. Which is fine. If you wanted something available at a lower level you'd need to tone it down a lot (e.g. similar to something like the monk's Deflect Missiles feature).
There were also a 3.x Wizard spell and psionic ability that were similar. I would probables make it so you either you couldn’t absorb more than your max sorcery points with anything over that either being lost or still taking effect at a reduced damage or enhanced save, or that you could absorb the excess as “ temporary sorcery points” but perhaps at the cost of taking 1dice of damage for each excess die of damage absorbed.
One possible way to deal with this is to grant the spellfire blast at L1 then add the absorption ability at a latter level. The absorption might also be limited to spells of levels the sorceror can cast or the absorption be limited to that level.
Just do it the way the Spellthief did it. You still have to make your save, and then if you do, you absorb the spell. Then later maybe you can get magic resistance or even a freebie every long rest or something.
But like, why are we cobbling together the totally unique Sorcerer from the scraps of other classes?
I don't mind if the base class framework is primarily metamagic, adding extra flavour and crunch to the subclass abilities instead. Like you could take the sorcerer capstone ability and change it to "You regain X SP on a short rest" for some small value of X (should depend on sorcerer level to avoid multiclass issues) and then give it to them much earlier, maybe level 7? That would free up the capstone ability to be origin specific. You could also easily provide an extra 2 additional metamagics somewhere between levels 4 and 16, and one of these might be origin specific?
You could also easily provide an extra 2 additional metamagics somewhere between levels 4 and 16, and one of these might be origin specific?
Heck, give them an origin-specific metamagic right when they get sorcerer points. Having points at 2nd level but not being able to do anything with them but make spell slots always seemed weird to me.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You could also easily provide an extra 2 additional metamagics somewhere between levels 4 and 16, and one of these might be origin specific?
Heck, give them an origin-specific metamagic right when they get sorcerer points. Having points at 2nd level but not being able to do anything with them but make spell slots always seemed weird to me.
I guess I should have been more specific about the spell absorption. I think the second part of the Staff of the magi would be the part to use. You can use your reaction to absorb a spell that targets only you. When you do you cancel the effect and gain SP equal to the level of the spell up to your SP maximum. You can use this PB times per long rest. Or maybe once per long rest.
I agree that the resistance part is too much unless that was added as separate feature at a higher level. I don’t think the absorption part is too OP at lower levels if it’s limited use.
It does seem weird to get SP without metamagic but I feel like this was deliberate to prevent a 2 level sorcerer dip giving you Quicken Spell.
However I would be potentially happy for any of the 1 SP metamagics to be handed out at level 2.
Although Distant Eldritch Blast is a bit crazy (spell sniper anyone?)
You can just take Metamagic Adept now anyway for a zero-level dip to Quicken your Green-Flame Blade or whatever
Combine Distant with Eldritch Spear, and now we're talking!
DM: Seeing that the fight isn't going his way, the evil wizard casts Dimension Door Sorlock: Can I still see them? DM: Yes, far off in the distance, 500 feet away, you see the tiny poof of the spell Sorlock: Eldritch Blast
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Just do it the way the Spellthief did it. You still have to make your save, and then if you do, you absorb the spell. Then later maybe you can get magic resistance or even a freebie every long rest or something.
But like, why are we cobbling together the totally unique Sorcerer from the scraps of other classes?
Actually what I’m trying to do is cobble together an improved sorceror that is reasonably backward compatible with 5e by going back to the precursors in 1-3e (psionics and spellfire) and trying to see what could be added to make the sorceror competitive w/o being OP. And while being it’s own unique thing. While I have the 2e & 3e psionics books I’m working spellfire from memory.
Here is what the FR wiki has to say about Spellfire:
Spellfire was the raw energy of the Weave and a very rare magical power. It was highly coveted by many in Faerûn, as it allowed the user to absorb spells cast at them, internally convert it to raw magical energy, and then use it in myriad ways. Spellfire energies could be used to heal, to project destructive bursts of flame from the eyes, to fly, and in rare cases, for a powerful ability known as the Crown of Fire.
Spellfire usually appeared as a font of silver light and healing energy. When used it battle, it looked like a radiant blue-white flame. For a long time, the ability to control spellfire was believed to be unique to a single person each generation, but that was a fallacy: most wielders simply choose to hide their ability in order to avoid getting noticed by powerful organizations such as the Cult of the Dragon.
<edit cut>
Spellfire versus Silver Fire
While both spellfire and Silver fire originated from the raw energy of the Weave, they didn't have exactly the same effect. Spellfire was pure raw energy, while silver fire was a power granted to the Chosen of Mystra to channel the Weave's energy in a more subtle way.
It could be an interesting design choice to change a resource a bit. If we create a feature that lets you absorb magic, maybe Sorcery Points could work differently. Like, a Long Rest drains Sorcery Points, and you have to absorb spells in order to gain points to use. It'd definitely change how you play Sorcerer, trying to get hit by spells to charge up SP. Though given the Sorcerer's d6 hit die, maybe it's not such a great idea... If I was taking this suggestion seriously, you'd probably have to increase the Sorcerer's hit die or give them a base HP bonus, like how Draconic Sorcerer does it now.
I'll tell you this as somebody who played the 3.5 Spellthief. You don't really ever get to use that feature. If you think about the percentage of fights you have that are against casters, and then the percentage of those fights that involve you getting targeted specifically, you can see the problem.
You could adjust the feature to make it a little more reliable. Change "you're the sole target" to "you're at least one of the targets," and it gets a little bit better, but not much. Change "a harmful spell, and you negate it" to "any spell, and you don't," and now allies can fuel it for you with buffs and heals, but it loses some of its flavor. But that just broadens the power level range of this thing way too much. In some parties it would trigger once every ten sessions, and in others it would be six times every long rest. You could reintroduce the arbitrary limit -- use this only X times per Y -- but at that point it's so ugly. Here's the draft:
Starting at X level, your magical nature reacts strongly to magic cast upon you. Whenever you're the target of a spell, you can use your reaction to gain a number of SP up to the level of the spell, not exceeding your normal limit. (Possible addition: If you gain Y or more SP this way [alt: if you are level W or higher?], you have advantage on any saving throw you make against the triggering spell.) You can gain no more than Z SP this way, and then you must complete a long rest before you can use this feature again.
It's okay, I just think it's a bit of a mess conceptually and wording-wise. Making it playable kind of kills it.
It could be an interesting design choice to change a resource a bit. If we create a feature that lets you absorb magic, maybe Sorcery Points could work differently. Like, a Long Rest drains Sorcery Points, and you have to absorb spells in order to gain points to use. It'd definitely change how you play Sorcerer, trying to get hit by spells to charge up SP. Though given the Sorcerer's d6 hit die, maybe it's not such a great idea... If I was taking this suggestion seriously, you'd probably have to increase the Sorcerer's hit die or give them a base HP bonus, like how Draconic Sorcerer does it now.
This gives me the mental image of a sorcerer charging head first into a throng of enemy casters with a wild gleem in their eye, begging for them to launch every spell they have at them, while the casters flee in terror. The sorc pounces on one of them begging to have them use a shocking grasp or basically anything as they desperately try to squirm away. He breaks free only for the sorc to misty step in front of him screaming 'FIREBALL ME! I WANT TO FEEL THAT MAGICAL BURN! IT FUELS ME!' before pounching again on the poor caster.
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Yeah, but it also negates the spell's effect against them. See also: Staff of the Magi.
The staff's version
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That would be a cool idea. And unlike some of the other great suggestions on this thread it would be easy to implement on all sorcerers as a class feature and keep the backwards compatibility they are going for. Just add it to X level sorcerer and away you go.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I would think "X level" would have to be fairly high if you were giving sorcerers multiple free uses of a hyper counterspell. Which is fine. If you wanted something available at a lower level you'd need to tone it down a lot (e.g. similar to something like the monk's Deflect Missiles feature).
There were also a 3.x Wizard spell and psionic ability that were similar. I would probables make it so you either you couldn’t absorb more than your max sorcery points with anything over that either being lost or still taking effect at a reduced damage or enhanced save, or that you could absorb the excess as “ temporary sorcery points” but perhaps at the cost of taking 1dice of damage for each excess die of damage absorbed.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
One possible way to deal with this is to grant the spellfire blast at L1 then add the absorption ability at a latter level. The absorption might also be limited to spells of levels the sorceror can cast or the absorption be limited to that level.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Just do it the way the Spellthief did it. You still have to make your save, and then if you do, you absorb the spell. Then later maybe you can get magic resistance or even a freebie every long rest or something.
But like, why are we cobbling together the totally unique Sorcerer from the scraps of other classes?
I don't mind if the base class framework is primarily metamagic, adding extra flavour and crunch to the subclass abilities instead. Like you could take the sorcerer capstone ability and change it to "You regain X SP on a short rest" for some small value of X (should depend on sorcerer level to avoid multiclass issues) and then give it to them much earlier, maybe level 7? That would free up the capstone ability to be origin specific. You could also easily provide an extra 2 additional metamagics somewhere between levels 4 and 16, and one of these might be origin specific?
Heck, give them an origin-specific metamagic right when they get sorcerer points. Having points at 2nd level but not being able to do anything with them but make spell slots always seemed weird to me.
Aberrant Mind: Extended
Clockwork Soul: Twinned
Divine Soul: Careful
Draconic: Transmuted
Shadow Magic: Subtle
Storm Sorcery: Distant
Wild Magic: Empowered
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It does seem weird to get SP without metamagic but I feel like this was deliberate to prevent a 2 level sorcerer dip giving you Quicken Spell.
However I would be potentially happy for any of the 1 SP metamagics to be handed out at level 2.
Although Distant Eldritch Blast is a bit crazy (spell sniper anyone?)
Are you going to suggest a rest limit on it? Cause that seems like a really good way to keep it in check from getting too OPed.
I mean I'd rather an origin specific metamagic was something actually unique and thematic. Not just a random one taken from the generic list.
I guess I should have been more specific about the spell absorption. I think the second part of the Staff of the magi would be the part to use. You can use your reaction to absorb a spell that targets only you. When you do you cancel the effect and gain SP equal to the level of the spell up to your SP maximum. You can use this PB times per long rest. Or maybe once per long rest.
I agree that the resistance part is too much unless that was added as separate feature at a higher level. I don’t think the absorption part is too OP at lower levels if it’s limited use.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
You can just take Metamagic Adept now anyway for a zero-level dip to Quicken your Green-Flame Blade or whatever
Combine Distant with Eldritch Spear, and now we're talking!
DM: Seeing that the fight isn't going his way, the evil wizard casts Dimension Door
Sorlock: Can I still see them?
DM: Yes, far off in the distance, 500 feet away, you see the tiny poof of the spell
Sorlock: Eldritch Blast
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Actually what I’m trying to do is cobble together an improved sorceror that is reasonably backward compatible with 5e by going back to the precursors in 1-3e (psionics and spellfire) and trying to see what could be added to make the sorceror competitive w/o being OP. And while being it’s own unique thing. While I have the 2e & 3e psionics books I’m working spellfire from memory.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Here is what the FR wiki has to say about Spellfire:
Spellfire was the raw energy of the Weave and a very rare magical power. It was highly coveted by many in Faerûn, as it allowed the user to absorb spells cast at them, internally convert it to raw magical energy, and then use it in myriad ways. Spellfire energies could be used to heal, to project destructive bursts of flame from the eyes, to fly, and in rare cases, for a powerful ability known as the Crown of Fire.
Spellfire usually appeared as a font of silver light and healing energy. When used it battle, it looked like a radiant blue-white flame. For a long time, the ability to control spellfire was believed to be unique to a single person each generation, but that was a fallacy: most wielders simply choose to hide their ability in order to avoid getting noticed by powerful organizations such as the Cult of the Dragon.
<edit cut>
Spellfire versus Silver Fire
While both spellfire and Silver fire originated from the raw energy of the Weave, they didn't have exactly the same effect. Spellfire was pure raw energy, while silver fire was a power granted to the Chosen of Mystra to channel the Weave's energy in a more subtle way.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It could be an interesting design choice to change a resource a bit. If we create a feature that lets you absorb magic, maybe Sorcery Points could work differently. Like, a Long Rest drains Sorcery Points, and you have to absorb spells in order to gain points to use. It'd definitely change how you play Sorcerer, trying to get hit by spells to charge up SP. Though given the Sorcerer's d6 hit die, maybe it's not such a great idea... If I was taking this suggestion seriously, you'd probably have to increase the Sorcerer's hit die or give them a base HP bonus, like how Draconic Sorcerer does it now.
I'll tell you this as somebody who played the 3.5 Spellthief. You don't really ever get to use that feature. If you think about the percentage of fights you have that are against casters, and then the percentage of those fights that involve you getting targeted specifically, you can see the problem.
You could adjust the feature to make it a little more reliable. Change "you're the sole target" to "you're at least one of the targets," and it gets a little bit better, but not much. Change "a harmful spell, and you negate it" to "any spell, and you don't," and now allies can fuel it for you with buffs and heals, but it loses some of its flavor. But that just broadens the power level range of this thing way too much. In some parties it would trigger once every ten sessions, and in others it would be six times every long rest. You could reintroduce the arbitrary limit -- use this only X times per Y -- but at that point it's so ugly. Here's the draft:
Starting at X level, your magical nature reacts strongly to magic cast upon you. Whenever you're the target of a spell, you can use your reaction to gain a number of SP up to the level of the spell, not exceeding your normal limit. (Possible addition: If you gain Y or more SP this way [alt: if you are level W or higher?], you have advantage on any saving throw you make against the triggering spell.) You can gain no more than Z SP this way, and then you must complete a long rest before you can use this feature again.
It's okay, I just think it's a bit of a mess conceptually and wording-wise. Making it playable kind of kills it.
This gives me the mental image of a sorcerer charging head first into a throng of enemy casters with a wild gleem in their eye, begging for them to launch every spell they have at them, while the casters flee in terror. The sorc pounces on one of them begging to have them use a shocking grasp or basically anything as they desperately try to squirm away. He breaks free only for the sorc to misty step in front of him screaming 'FIREBALL ME! I WANT TO FEEL THAT MAGICAL BURN! IT FUELS ME!' before pounching again on the poor caster.