I rolled a Celestial Tomelock, and I really like this mechanically and thematically. Anyone else got experiences? Can you shoulder the support role alone, or are locks rather secondary in this role in your opinion?
I have a Tiefling Celestial Tomelock. I play him like he's a Paladin (backstory, was being a Tiefling he wasn't allowed to become a Paladin, so he made a deal with a celestial of Waukeen). He actually spends most of his time in melee combat and calls himself a "Gentleman Adventurer"
The character jumps in power at 3rd and 6th.
At 1st lvl I got Light and Sacred Flame. I took Eldritch Blast and Green-Flame Blade for cantrips and Armor of Agathys as a spell. At 3rd lvl I took Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets. For the Tome I took: Shillegalgh, Firebolt, and Guidance (fluff more then anything). For Book of Secrets I took Find Familiar and Detect Magic. This meant as a Bonus Action I could turn my staff into Shillegalgh and casts Armor of Agathys to protect myself. Next turns I'd wade into combat with the Green-Flame Shillegalgh! Any enemy who attacks me in melee and his my AC gets a double dose of Hellish Rebuke (once a day) and Armor of Agathys. The Familiar is an Owl, giving the Flyby Help Action in combat and so I almost always have Advantage on my 1 attack roll (be it Green-Flame Shillegalgh or Firebolt, this is why I don't use Eldritch Blast because at 5th it's multiple rolls and only 1 gets Advantage). At 4th Ivl I took Flames of Phlegethos (XgtE) which rounded out my odd Charisma score. Now I reroll all 1s on Fire spells and if I cast a fire spell (which I always do) I deal 1d4 fire damage to anyone who attacks me in melee. At 6th lvl Radiant Souls means I'm resistant to Fire and Radiant and all my Fire and Radiant spells now deal my Charisma Mod in damage, this includes my Hellish Rebuke!
If an enemy is resistant to Fire I switch to Radiant damage or I used Eldritch Blast as I always keep it as a "Backup", but I've honestly never cast it once. Healing Light is very much an MVP ability. You have you level+1 in d6s to heal anyone within 60'. This seems unimpressive at 1st, but I've kept our party in the fighter by continually reviving fallen characters by 1d6 so they pop back up for their turn. Otherwise I can blow my Charisma Mod in d6s and keep myself in the fight.
The character is very built around passive damage ontop of the very high Cantrip damage.
I’m playing a Pact of the Tome Celestial Warlock right now and he’s completely different from FullMetalBunny’s. He avoids melee at all costs and he’s a ranged sniper/support character in combat. I use his Healing Light ability to keep our front line melee party members from going down and I use Eldritch Blast most of the time. I also use Sacred Flame or Firebolt depending on the circumstances, but Eldritch Blast is my primary attack spell.
Our last combat was at night and I spent most of the combat 60 to 90 feet away from our opponents. Far enough away that the ones with 60’ Darkvision couldn’t see me to target me and close enough to use Healing Light which has a 60’ range. I only used Sacred Flame when I was within 60’ of our opponents and there wasn’t another party member between me and them and I didn’t want them to come attack me. My AC is 12 so I’m squishy. Very squishy.
Every Warlock is different, even two Celestial Warlocks who picked Pact of the Tome!
Yeah, totally. I also picked Tome, so we're three totally different Warlocks. I plan on going full support, but I also put an invocation into Agonizing Eldritch Blast, just to be useful when I'm not currently healing. I got all the Celestial spell picks except FLaming Sphere: I got Invisibility instead, because I am always a big fan of going Stealth and Invisibility is my fail-safe for when I mess up a Stealth check.
I plan on using my spell slots sparingly, and mostly for healing. I got Guiding Bolt tho, so if I need to set up an attack with advantage for a rogue buddy, that would be helpful.
What I’ve found is that with only 2 spell slots, I use them up quickly. I do most of my healing with Healing Light and I use 1 Cure Wounds spell in every combat. The rest of the time I use offensive cantrips.
She is a Tiefling Pact of the Tome. She has both infernal and celestial in her blood. Since birth, she has the literal good vs evil battle raging inside her. Without going in to details, tragic, dark back story and would be dead if it wasn’t for her Patron, she would be dead.
She has more fingers than she knods people that she trusts. Uses Mask of Many Faces to disguises herself as a human. Even tho she does have Eldritch Blast, she rarely uses it, to hide the face she is a warlock. She mainly uses Sacred Flame, Guidance, Troll the Dead, Vicious Mockery, and Hex. She also uses light a lot to keep up the human ruse.
I think it's an interesting point Eisenfuchs. I specifically avoided Agonizing Eldritch Blast, because I feel it competes with Radiant Souls, and see it as double spending (Class Feature and Innvocation). It's the same reason I didn't get Armor of Shadows, because unless I have a magic item like Bracers of Defense, then Mage Armor only has a +1 better AC over Studded Leather.
IF Agonizing Eldritch Blast, hits it can more damage (at 6th): 1d10+CHA on two attacks, but you roll each separately. Firebolt with Radiant Souls is 2d20+CHA as a single attack.
It's similar to why I use Green Flame Blade with Shillelagh in melee. (I hope to one day have a staff that does an elemental damage). Damage at 6th: 1d8+CHA (Shillelagh) + 1d8 fire (Green Flame) + CHA (Radiant Soul) = 2d8+(2*CHA), plus 1d8+CHA to a 2nd target if applicable.
Theme wise with Flames of Phlegethos almost all my damage is either fire or radiant.
I really don’t mind doing things differently, close combat is no option for me, and I view Ago mostly as last resort. Adalwulf doesn’t want to hurt, much less kill, anyone. He’s a hippy.
We have a Cleric, but my Celestial Warlock does more healing during combat than he does because he’s also a strong melee fighter. Outside of combat he does much more healing than I’m able to do.
I'm playing a new celestial warlock and only had a couple encounters so far. I'm the backup healer to help out our cleric who has had a rough time staying conscious. Its great to burn a spell slot before a short rest to heal up and have the spell slot refresh not long after(cleric is very jealous now).
Also have 2 wizards who focus more on the blasty stuff, so I only really use eldritch blast and sickening radiance for damage. Rest of my spells were to help with situations we may need some magical assistance like invisibility, banishment and dimension door. Absolutely love hypnotic pattern as it has already come in handy and stopped a situation from spiraling out of control(some of our group lacks impulse control and are quick to anger and pick a fight).
This meant as a Bonus Action I could turn my staff into Shillegalgh and casts Armor of Agathys to protect myself.
You can't do this in the same round. Once per turn, you can cast a slotted spell and a cantrip only regardless of the action types it takes to cast.
Shillelagh is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 bonus action. Armor of Agathys is a 1st-level spell with a casting time of 1 action.
Actually, the rule refers to casting a spell as a bonus action - once you cast a spell as a bonus action, the only other spell you can cast using your action can be a cantrip. If you cast aShillelagh as a bonus action, you can only cast another cantrip using your action. Of course, a DM is free to adapt this to fit their own world.
On the rest of the topic - one of my players just multi-classed into a Celestial Warlock, after having a session where he was "greeted" by his Patron. He's changed some of his spell names so that they fit the theme and I've allowed him to change his damage type for particular spells (like Hellish Rebuke) to radiant damage due to the Patron I've paired him with. :)
Doesn't changing the damage type of some of his spells to radiant damage change the balance of power in the game? Fire is the most resisted damage type in the game so changing damage for fire spells from fire damage to radiant damage will make the Celestial Warlock more powerful than intended. I consider the resistance to radiant damage that my Celestial Warlock just got when he hit 6th level pretty useless because Iv'e never been in a fight where radiant damage was used against us. The bonus to any radiant or fire damage that I do on the other hand is very powerful and it balances out the weak resistance nicely.
To balance the swap from fire to radiant, you can totally downgrade the damage dice by one step. That’s basically the biggest difference between Fire Bolt and Sacred Flame. Making a Radiant Rebuke would totally be cool of course. Also my suggestions always are disclaimed under the golden rule “you do you”, which basically means that I’m not telling anyone how to do things.
When you're in normal, non-magical darkness, Sacred Flame is awesome because it washes down over it's target from over their head while Fire Bolt and Eldritch Blast are bright, visible streaks that come out from your hand to attack your target. I use it at night for that reason, it makes me harder to spot.
Tim, It's a misnomer. The Dev's have stated that they do not balance spells based on damage types. Sacred Flame loses 60ft in range and a damage die, but the target never benefits from cover! It can be hard to say if the die loss comes from the damage type or the special mod.
If you think about it D&D is so complex that it would be insane to do it that way. Because while Firebolt won't tickle a demon or devil it'll light up an awakened tree light a Christmas tree or is your best friend against a troll.
That said the Dev do acknowledge that psychic and force are both a "superior" damage type.
I agree, it isn't necessarily relevant to the Fire-vs-Radiant discussion, but it certainly factors into psychic and force discussions. Check Vicious Mockery vs Frostbite; in terms of effects both do the same thing (disadvantage on next attack roll), but psychic-vs-cold seems to make a difference of one die step. Although there is also a difference in the components of the spell, Vicious Mockery is Verbal only.
I rolled a Celestial Tomelock, and I really like this mechanically and thematically. Anyone else got experiences? Can you shoulder the support role alone, or are locks rather secondary in this role in your opinion?
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
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I have a Tiefling Celestial Tomelock.
I play him like he's a Paladin (backstory, was being a Tiefling he wasn't allowed to become a Paladin, so he made a deal with a celestial of Waukeen).
He actually spends most of his time in melee combat and calls himself a "Gentleman Adventurer"
The character jumps in power at 3rd and 6th.
At 1st lvl I got Light and Sacred Flame. I took Eldritch Blast and Green-Flame Blade for cantrips and Armor of Agathys as a spell.
At 3rd lvl I took Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets. For the Tome I took: Shillegalgh, Firebolt, and Guidance (fluff more then anything). For Book of Secrets I took Find Familiar and Detect Magic.
This meant as a Bonus Action I could turn my staff into Shillegalgh and casts Armor of Agathys to protect myself. Next turns I'd wade into combat with the Green-Flame Shillegalgh! Any enemy who attacks me in melee and his my AC gets a double dose of Hellish Rebuke (once a day) and Armor of Agathys. The Familiar is an Owl, giving the Flyby Help Action in combat and so I almost always have Advantage on my 1 attack roll (be it Green-Flame Shillegalgh or Firebolt, this is why I don't use Eldritch Blast because at 5th it's multiple rolls and only 1 gets Advantage).
At 4th Ivl I took Flames of Phlegethos (XgtE) which rounded out my odd Charisma score. Now I reroll all 1s on Fire spells and if I cast a fire spell (which I always do) I deal 1d4 fire damage to anyone who attacks me in melee.
At 6th lvl Radiant Souls means I'm resistant to Fire and Radiant and all my Fire and Radiant spells now deal my Charisma Mod in damage, this includes my Hellish Rebuke!
If an enemy is resistant to Fire I switch to Radiant damage or I used Eldritch Blast as I always keep it as a "Backup", but I've honestly never cast it once.
Healing Light is very much an MVP ability. You have you level+1 in d6s to heal anyone within 60'. This seems unimpressive at 1st, but I've kept our party in the fighter by continually reviving fallen characters by 1d6 so they pop back up for their turn. Otherwise I can blow my Charisma Mod in d6s and keep myself in the fight.
The character is very built around passive damage ontop of the very high Cantrip damage.
I’m playing a Pact of the Tome Celestial Warlock right now and he’s completely different from FullMetalBunny’s. He avoids melee at all costs and he’s a ranged sniper/support character in combat. I use his Healing Light ability to keep our front line melee party members from going down and I use Eldritch Blast most of the time. I also use Sacred Flame or Firebolt depending on the circumstances, but Eldritch Blast is my primary attack spell.
Our last combat was at night and I spent most of the combat 60 to 90 feet away from our opponents. Far enough away that the ones with 60’ Darkvision couldn’t see me to target me and close enough to use Healing Light which has a 60’ range. I only used Sacred Flame when I was within 60’ of our opponents and there wasn’t another party member between me and them and I didn’t want them to come attack me. My AC is 12 so I’m squishy. Very squishy.
Every Warlock is different, even two Celestial Warlocks who picked Pact of the Tome!
Professional computer geek
Yeah, totally. I also picked Tome, so we're three totally different Warlocks. I plan on going full support, but I also put an invocation into Agonizing Eldritch Blast, just to be useful when I'm not currently healing. I got all the Celestial spell picks except FLaming Sphere: I got Invisibility instead, because I am always a big fan of going Stealth and Invisibility is my fail-safe for when I mess up a Stealth check.
I plan on using my spell slots sparingly, and mostly for healing. I got Guiding Bolt tho, so if I need to set up an attack with advantage for a rogue buddy, that would be helpful.
My character is a small hamsterpunk healer =)
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
Get Michtim For D&D
The Tavern (casual RP socializing) game: DM, feel free to join, but read rules in first post and post questions if you have any!
Tym Eisenfuchs: ambiguous Michtim Warlock
Click links to find out more!
What I’ve found is that with only 2 spell slots, I use them up quickly. I do most of my healing with Healing Light and I use 1 Cure Wounds spell in every combat. The rest of the time I use offensive cantrips.
Professional computer geek
I just played on yesterday and I loved it.
She is a Tiefling Pact of the Tome. She has both infernal and celestial in her blood. Since birth, she has the literal good vs evil battle raging inside her. Without going in to details, tragic, dark back story and would be dead if it wasn’t for her Patron, she would be dead.
She has more fingers than she knods people that she trusts. Uses Mask of Many Faces to disguises herself as a human. Even tho she does have Eldritch Blast, she rarely uses it, to hide the face she is a warlock. She mainly uses Sacred Flame, Guidance, Troll the Dead, Vicious Mockery, and Hex. She also uses light a lot to keep up the human ruse.
I think it's an interesting point Eisenfuchs. I specifically avoided Agonizing Eldritch Blast, because I feel it competes with Radiant Souls, and see it as double spending (Class Feature and Innvocation).
It's the same reason I didn't get Armor of Shadows, because unless I have a magic item like Bracers of Defense, then Mage Armor only has a +1 better AC over Studded Leather.
IF Agonizing Eldritch Blast, hits it can more damage (at 6th): 1d10+CHA on two attacks, but you roll each separately. Firebolt with Radiant Souls is 2d20+CHA as a single attack.
It's similar to why I use Green Flame Blade with Shillelagh in melee. (I hope to one day have a staff that does an elemental damage).
Damage at 6th: 1d8+CHA (Shillelagh) + 1d8 fire (Green Flame) + CHA (Radiant Soul) = 2d8+(2*CHA), plus 1d8+CHA to a 2nd target if applicable.
Theme wise with Flames of Phlegethos almost all my damage is either fire or radiant.
I really don’t mind doing things differently, close combat is no option for me, and I view Ago mostly as last resort. Adalwulf doesn’t want to hurt, much less kill, anyone. He’s a hippy.
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
Get Michtim For D&D
The Tavern (casual RP socializing) game: DM, feel free to join, but read rules in first post and post questions if you have any!
Tym Eisenfuchs: ambiguous Michtim Warlock
Click links to find out more!
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to get back on topic: do you have dedicated healers or are you the party healer?
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
Get Michtim For D&D
The Tavern (casual RP socializing) game: DM, feel free to join, but read rules in first post and post questions if you have any!
Tym Eisenfuchs: ambiguous Michtim Warlock
Click links to find out more!
We have a Cleric, but my Celestial Warlock does more healing during combat than he does because he’s also a strong melee fighter. Outside of combat he does much more healing than I’m able to do.
Professional computer geek
I'm playing a new celestial warlock and only had a couple encounters so far. I'm the backup healer to help out our cleric who has had a rough time staying conscious. Its great to burn a spell slot before a short rest to heal up and have the spell slot refresh not long after(cleric is very jealous now).
Also have 2 wizards who focus more on the blasty stuff, so I only really use eldritch blast and sickening radiance for damage. Rest of my spells were to help with situations we may need some magical assistance like invisibility, banishment and dimension door. Absolutely love hypnotic pattern as it has already come in handy and stopped a situation from spiraling out of control(some of our group lacks impulse control and are quick to anger and pick a fight).
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Doesn't changing the damage type of some of his spells to radiant damage change the balance of power in the game? Fire is the most resisted damage type in the game so changing damage for fire spells from fire damage to radiant damage will make the Celestial Warlock more powerful than intended. I consider the resistance to radiant damage that my Celestial Warlock just got when he hit 6th level pretty useless because Iv'e never been in a fight where radiant damage was used against us. The bonus to any radiant or fire damage that I do on the other hand is very powerful and it balances out the weak resistance nicely.
Professional computer geek
To balance the swap from fire to radiant, you can totally downgrade the damage dice by one step. That’s basically the biggest difference between Fire Bolt and Sacred Flame. Making a Radiant Rebuke would totally be cool of course. Also my suggestions always are disclaimed under the golden rule “you do you”, which basically means that I’m not telling anyone how to do things.
So that means going with d8s instead of d10s
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
Get Michtim For D&D
The Tavern (casual RP socializing) game: DM, feel free to join, but read rules in first post and post questions if you have any!
Tym Eisenfuchs: ambiguous Michtim Warlock
Click links to find out more!
When you're in normal, non-magical darkness, Sacred Flame is awesome because it washes down over it's target from over their head while Fire Bolt and Eldritch Blast are bright, visible streaks that come out from your hand to attack your target. I use it at night for that reason, it makes me harder to spot.
Professional computer geek
Tim, It's a misnomer. The Dev's have stated that they do not balance spells based on damage types.
Sacred Flame loses 60ft in range and a damage die, but the target never benefits from cover! It can be hard to say if the die loss comes from the damage type or the special mod.
If you think about it D&D is so complex that it would be insane to do it that way. Because while Firebolt won't tickle a demon or devil it'll light up an awakened tree light a Christmas tree or is your best friend against a troll.
The GM can always use different monsters/characters with different resistances, so changing a fireball to a coldball would still be a level 3 spell, if you follow the rules for creating a spell: https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#CreatingaSpell then you should be fine.
That said the Dev do acknowledge that psychic and force are both a "superior" damage type.
Zev Georg Mir, creator of Michtim: Fluffy Adventures
Game Designer, Storyteller, UX Gamedev, Homebrewer, Michtim
Get Michtim For D&D
The Tavern (casual RP socializing) game: DM, feel free to join, but read rules in first post and post questions if you have any!
Tym Eisenfuchs: ambiguous Michtim Warlock
Click links to find out more!
How can you put the celestial as a patron using this app?