Why is this always a pre-requisite? You guys realize that the game isn’t balanced assuming there are no magical items, right?
You're 100% incorrect. The classes and game is balanced around having no magic items. It's only fair to keep them away from magic items unless their built in class features grant them this.
That’s actually completely wrong and where has it ever been claimed that an entire section of the PHB and DMG on magic items not been considered integral to the game balance??? That’s like saying Multiclasses aren’t considered balanced “just because I don’t like that section in the book”. Or Monks. Or Feats. This game was never balanced with the idea of no magical items - otherwise Class features like Use Magic Device, Scribing Scrolls, etc wouldn’t exist.
The power of the classes come from their features, not magic items. The game is balanced without magic items. This quickly becomes more complicated and difficult to balance if you allow magic items. I like magic items, and use them, but the game isn't balanced around them.
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20.25% Chance of hitting that spell on round 1, which means there’s a 50/50 chance you stick it in the first 3 rounds.
If you cast Fly the first round, then in return for the first two rounds, at least 8 out of 16 longbow arrows hit their mark doing 76 damage. 19 damage per round after that. That’s 8 rolls for Concentration to lose flight and take extra damage from falling.
If not flight, then first two rounds the damage is 92 damage with the rapier and 23 damage per round after that.
How much HP for your example Wizard? Throw up a link and let’s do some theorycrafting. 🙂
Also, one simple Magical item like a Mantle of Spell Resistance... 20.25% Chance of Failure and 45% Chance of Indomitable Failure (only about a 9% chance of success and 25% likelihood in first 3 rounds)... and then even Poly+PWK won’t win a majority of battles.
You don't need to cast fly. The very first round, if the Dwarf goes first and attacks you, cast Temporal Shunt. On your turn, cast Invulnerability. You have immediately won.
If you go first, cast Polymorph and force them to fail. Turn them into a frog. Next round, Power Word Kill them.
Terrible strategy considering a Wisdom save Spell only has 20% chance of working. Invulnerability means you automatically lose, remember? You can’t do enough damage to kill the Dwarf no matter how many rounds you have of Invulnerability. This is simple mathematics - try again and link your wizard example to do some real theory crafting.
How are you Forcing failure? Divination Wizard Portent? For one, you need to roll low enough (below 10) on a die with your portent, then also have them fail the indomitable reroll. What are your odds of that do you think? Maybe I’ll let you do the math for this one.
The power of the classes come from their features, not magic items. The game is balanced without magic items. This quickly becomes more complicated and difficult to balance if you allow magic items. I like magic items, and use them, but the game isn't balanced around them.
Yes. It is. Never have the developers stated “we designed a system that is balanced if you ignore like 50-pages of the PHB”. So I think if you want to remove a portion of the books you should have a reason for it instead of just trying to state an opinion and declare it true.
But if you want to state “What’s the best class when we remove magic items from the game for no specific reason other than it makes doing math hard”, then ok.
To make it fun, I changed a few feats to give Wisdom saves a boost to +10 instead of +9. Now an Indomitable Wisdom save on DC19 has an 84% chance of working, and still works 60% of the time even with Portent.
The only one better might be Monster Slayer Ranger. 7th, 11th, and 15th level abilities all either help you with saves or cancels spells. Basically you got unlimited counterspell
Supernatural Defense
Magic-User's Nemesis
Slayer's Counter
I laughed when read I this. A Ranger, possibly the most underpowered class of all time, could beat a wizard? Then I immediately got my Xanathar's and began researching. The main draw of this class is the 11th level feature, which is the counterspell, since and technically isn't magic and can't be counterspelled back. But, you can only use it once per short or long rest. Slayer's counter (the 15th level feature) only works on a target that has been marked with the 3rd level feature. So basically, the fight look's like this:
Wizard wins initiative: Ranger counterspells anything they do and hope it works. If the counter fails, they are probably dead.
Ranger wins initiative: Ranger marks the wizard with Slayer's prey with a bonus action, and now has a small chance of resisting the Wizard's spells. I guess the ranger shoots the wizard with a longbow, then?
I am changing the title of this thread to Can anything beat Wizard 20
If the Ranger gets Slayers Prey, they can hit reliable every single round with their Reaction. With Archery they have +13 to hit. What is your Wizard’s AC? Can someone link a sheet because I’m hearing all about Wizards with Spell Mastery Shield, Unlimited Fire Bolts, Maxxed out Dex, Maxxed out Int, Maxxed out Con... but no examples.
20.25% Chance of hitting that spell on round 1, which means there’s a 50/50 chance you stick it in the first 3 rounds.
If you cast Fly the first round, then in return for the first two rounds, at least 8 out of 16 longbow arrows hit their mark doing 76 damage. 19 damage per round after that. That’s 8 rolls for Concentration to lose flight and take extra damage from falling.
If not flight, then first two rounds the damage is 92 damage with the rapier and 23 damage per round after that.
How much HP for your example Wizard? Throw up a link and let’s do some theorycrafting. 🙂
Also, one simple Magical item like a Mantle of Spell Resistance... 20.25% Chance of Failure and 45% Chance of Indomitable Failure (only about a 9% chance of success and 25% likelihood in first 3 rounds)... and then even Poly+PWK won’t win a majority of battles.
You don't need to cast fly. The very first round, if the Dwarf goes first and attacks you, cast Temporal Shunt. On your turn, cast Invulnerability. You have immediately won.
If you go first, cast Polymorph and force them to fail. Turn them into a frog. Next round, Power Word Kill them.
Terrible strategy considering a Wisdom save Spell only has 20% chance of working. Invulnerability means you automatically lose, remember? You can’t do enough damage to kill the Dwarf no matter how many rounds you have of Invulnerability. This is simple mathematics - try again and link your wizard example to do some real theory crafting.
How are you Forcing failure? Divination Wizard Portent? For one, you need to roll low enough (below 10) on a die with your portent, then also have them fail the indomitable reroll. What are your odds of that do you think? Maybe I’ll let you do the math for this one.
I haven't built a wizard for this. I don't own most content on D&D Beyond. I do know how the rules work, though, and Chronurgists can force a failed save with Convergent Future. It's not a terrible strategy if you can force them to instantly die.
A Wizard that casts invulnerability automatically wins, as they are immune to damage for 10 minutes, and will be able to deal enough damage in that time with cantrips. Toll of the Dead is my cantrip of choice, which if they fail a saving throw, they take 4d12 necrotic damage, which is an average of 26 damage every round. It doesn't matter if they regenerate, because 26 damage every round if they fail the saving throws means that they will die. You don't have to use spell slots on this, except one 9th level for invulnerability. Wizard wins.
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The power of the classes come from their features, not magic items. The game is balanced without magic items. This quickly becomes more complicated and difficult to balance if you allow magic items. I like magic items, and use them, but the game isn't balanced around them.
Yes. It is. Never have the developers stated “we designed a system that is balanced if you ignore like 50-pages of the PHB”. So I think if you want to remove a portion of the books you should have a reason for it instead of just trying to state an opinion and declare it true.
But if you want to state “What’s the best class when we remove magic items from the game for no specific reason other than it makes doing math hard”, then ok.
No, it's really not. The balance of the game doesn't revolve around magic items. It does for Artificers, but not anyone else. Also, the magic items aren't in the PHB, it's in the DMG.
The power of a class is not determined by what magic items they can use, the power of a class, in general, is determined by the abilities the class gets.
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Quote from LeviRocks>> I haven't built a wizard for this. I don't own most content on D&D Beyond. I do know how the rules work, though, and Chronurgists can force a failed save with Convergent Future. It's not a terrible strategy if you can force them to instantly die.
A Wizard that casts invulnerability automatically wins, as they are immune to damage for 10 minutes, and will be able to deal enough damage in that time with cantrips. Toll of the Dead is my cantrip of choice, which if they fail a saving throw, they take 4d12 necrotic damage, which is an average of 26 damage every round. It doesn't matter if they regenerate, because 26 damage every round if they fail the saving throws means that they will die. You don't have to use spell slots on this, except one 9th level for invulnerability. Wizard wins.
Toll the Dead is a Save vs Wis which will succeed only 40% of the time. 40% of 26 is 10.4 damage average per round, which results in 0.4 average damage per round. After 100 rounds that’s 40 damage. 40. Now your Invulnerability is gone, so now what?
Give me the stats you want to use and I’ll throw up a legit link rather than you trying to spitball. That is, if you’re actually interested in proving your hypothesis.
Chronurgy is literally the only option you have. I’m not a fan of Mercer’s notoriously bad balancing for his own world, but I guess if you want to include what is basically Homebrew, I guess that’s the one option that can’t lose.
It's not "basically homebrew" according to WotC. It's balanced according to them.
Spitballing is all that I can do here. I don't own the content of the books on this website, except for Theros. I know the rules, and can find workarounds to this scenario.
The DC for these saving throws with no
First, you're invulnerable for 100 rounds, which will be enough time to do toll of the dead long enough to get the Dwarf to 123 hp, which is the point where the dwarf is just under the threshold to regenerate. All you have to do is deal enough damage in the next few rounds to kill the dwarf. Disintegrate twice, once at level 8, and another time at level 7 should do the trick.
If for some reason this doesn't work, and you have to resort to cantrips from this halfway point, do this:
You can use Convergent Future to cause a fail on Toll of the Dead a few times. Do it 5 times, that's an average of 130 necrotic damage in 5 rounds. After doing this the dwarf starts regenerating 10 hp every round. Your character would regain 50 hp over these 5 rounds, so by the end of these 5 rounds, the dwarf should be at 43 hp. Next round, just cast fireball at level 7, dealing an average of 36 damage, and then the next round, when they have 17 hit points, cast a normal fireball.
It doesn't matter how well you build this martial character, a wizard will win.
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Except you forgot Dwarven Fortitude. That’s an extra 200-300 HP (10-15HP per round, on top of the 10HP regenerated). You literally cannot do enough damage with all your spell slots combined to eat through that and have enough to finish it.
And you seem to be completely ignoring Saves and even Shield Master which means even Disintegrate has only a 36% chance of success (Dodging). And if I save, no damage at all (Shield Master). Please go back and check my link closer.
Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
yeah but, the fighter is ridiculously underpowered against loads of stuff without magic weapons (anything that has resistance to non-magic damage) so perhaps it would be a more accurate contest if the characters were only allowed magic items of a certain level (perhaps uncommon or rare). it's unreasonable to expect 20th level characters to have no magic items that would help them in their fights.
Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
If the wizard goes first R.I.P. fighter. The wizard polymorphs and kills them before they can cast resistance. If the fighter goes first, they probably cast resistance. Every time they cast resistance, they can't dodge, and if they don't have resistance running, they are instakilled. So basically, the wizard can A. deal enough damage to blast true the dwarfs life (which is going to be very difficult) or B. wait until they eventually run out of hit dice for dwarven fortitude and kill them C. wait until they don't have resistance and kill them.
The problem is, even if the dwarf manages to survive, it has no easy way to kill the wizard. And, dodging is expending resources, so they will eventually lose a battle of attrition.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
I agree, magic items can not be included, example would be oh, I'm building a mage killer, I so happen to have ioun stone of greater absorption,
Perhaps an another example could be, I'm a 1st level character with 20 epic boons that can take out an 20 level wizard.
Or it so happens I have 3 ring of 3 wishes.
It would be more about the items than the characters itself.
(obviously, these are extreme situations, but people get the idea)
I forgot to mention that Wish can only duplicate spells of a lower level in this PvP. It is too dm dependent for it to be impartial when you use it for anything else.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
If the wizard goes first R.I.P. fighter. The wizard polymorphs and kills them before they can cast resistance. If the fighter goes first, they probably cast resistance. Every time they cast resistance, they can't dodge, and if they don't have resistance running, they are instakilled. So basically, the wizard can A. deal enough damage to blast true the dwarfs life (which is going to be very difficult) or B. wait until they eventually run out of hit dice for dwarven fortitude and kill them C. wait until they don't have resistance and kill them.
The problem is, even if the dwarf manages to survive, it has no easy way to kill the wizard. And, dodging is expending resources, so they will eventually lose a battle of attrition.
Yes, if the Wizard goes first they win. But what’s your Wizards Initiative? Not +7 right? And also not high because you maxed out Int and some Con I’m assuming? So the chance of the Wizard going first is very close to zero.
Now let’s assume the Fighter goes first.
Round 1:
Move away to avoid Counterspell and Resistance is cast. The Dwarf can still Dodge in the following rounds while maintaining it. He doesn’t need to use the Save bonus unless you use Convergent Future. I can’t believe I have to say this again but: *You can not do enough damage than you have spells and spell slots*
Have you ever actually calculated the damage you can do with the spells you have? It’s not enough to burn through someone regenerating 25HP per turn. I don’t know how else to say this. To “burn through” just the first 122 HP it would take you 10+ rounds with Toll the Dead alone.
Then you start using your high level slots like Disintegration at Level 8. It does 16d6+40. Save Chance is 64% (Indom). If I make the save it does zero damage (Shield Master). So your average damage with it is 16*3.5+40 = 96. 96*36% = 34.56. Great. Now I regenerated (Survivor + Dwarven Durability) 25 HP and now my total HP is 112.
Level 7? 13d6+40. 13*3.5+40 = 85.5. 85.5*36% = 30.78. After regeneration I’m down to 106. One more and I’m at 100.
Level 6? 10d6+40. 10d6+40 = 75. 75*36% = 27. After regeneration I’m down to 98. Another and I’m down to 96.
Every other spell after that is never going to do that much damage and I still have 15 Hit Dice to go and you have 16 spell slots. Although I contend after you get below level 4 spells, he won’t need the Dwarven feat anymore at all.
Fireball does 8d6. Won’t need Indom here (and likely will be used up) so that leaves it with a 70% Chance of success. Average damage is 28. 28*70% = 19.6. After regenerating 10 you are only doing around 9.6 per round.
Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
If the wizard goes first R.I.P. fighter. The wizard polymorphs and kills them before they can cast resistance. If the fighter goes first, they probably cast resistance. Every time they cast resistance, they can't dodge, and if they don't have resistance running, they are instakilled. So basically, the wizard can A. deal enough damage to blast true the dwarfs life (which is going to be very difficult) or B. wait until they eventually run out of hit dice for dwarven fortitude and kill them C. wait until they don't have resistance and kill them.
The problem is, even if the dwarf manages to survive, it has no easy way to kill the wizard. And, dodging is expending resources, so they will eventually lose a battle of attrition.
Yes, if the Wizard goes first they win. But what’s your Wizards Initiative? Not +7 right? And also not high because you maxed out Int and some Con I’m assuming? So the chance of the Wizard going first is very close to zero.
Now let’s assume the Fighter goes first.
Round 1:
Move away to avoid Counterspell and Resistance is cast. The Dwarf can still Dodge in the following rounds while maintaining it. He doesn’t need to use the Save bonus unless you use Convergent Future. I can’t believe I have to say this again but: *You can not do enough damage than you have spells and spell slots*
Have you ever actually calculated the damage you can do with the spells you have? It’s not enough to burn through someone regenerating 25HP per turn. I don’t know how else to say this. To “burn through” just the first 122 HP it would take you 10+ rounds with Toll the Dead alone.
Then you start using your high level slots like Disintegration at Level 8. It does 16d6+40. Save Chance is 64% (Indom). If I make the save it does zero damage (Shield Master). So your average damage with it is 16*3.5+40 = 96. 96*36% = 34.56. Great. Now I regenerated (Survivor + Dwarven Durability) 25 HP and now my total HP is 112.
Level 7? 13d6+40. 13*3.5+40 = 85.5. 85.5*36% = 30.78. After regeneration I’m down to 106. One more and I’m at 100.
Level 6? 10d6+40. 10d6+40 = 75. 75*36% = 27. After regeneration I’m down to 98. Another and I’m down to 96.
Every other spell after that is never going to do that much damage and I still have 15 Hit Dice to go and you have 16 spell slots. Although I contend after you get below level 4 spells, he won’t need the Dwarven feat anymore at all.
Fireball does 8d6. Won’t need Indom here (and likely will be used up) so that leaves it with a 70% Chance of success. Average damage is 28. 28*70% = 19.6. After regenerating 10 you are only doing around 9.6 per round.
I actually did max out dex. I used point buy and all in min-maxed the wizard, choosing 3 15s and taking now feats, only asi's. The initiative is +10 because chronologist lets you add intelligence to you initiative.
I'll conceed that the wizard will probably not be able to kill the fighter through damage. (If I were to try, I would be using firebolt, though. And spam it constantly to use up all of the fighters hit dice), so they will have to concoct some other scheme. Maybe true polymorphing into a Balor?
One last question: how does the fighter intend to kill the wizard?
That’s actually completely wrong and where has it ever been claimed that an entire section of the PHB and DMG on magic items not been considered integral to the game balance??? That’s like saying Multiclasses aren’t considered balanced “just because I don’t like that section in the book”. Or Monks. Or Feats. This game was never balanced with the idea of no magical items - otherwise Class features like Use Magic Device, Scribing Scrolls, etc wouldn’t exist.
The power of the classes come from their features, not magic items. The game is balanced without magic items. This quickly becomes more complicated and difficult to balance if you allow magic items. I like magic items, and use them, but the game isn't balanced around them.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Terrible strategy considering a Wisdom save Spell only has 20% chance of working. Invulnerability means you automatically lose, remember? You can’t do enough damage to kill the Dwarf no matter how many rounds you have of Invulnerability. This is simple mathematics - try again and link your wizard example to do some real theory crafting.
How are you Forcing failure? Divination Wizard Portent? For one, you need to roll low enough (below 10) on a die with your portent, then also have them fail the indomitable reroll. What are your odds of that do you think? Maybe I’ll let you do the math for this one.
Yes. It is. Never have the developers stated “we designed a system that is balanced if you ignore like 50-pages of the PHB”. So I think if you want to remove a portion of the books you should have a reason for it instead of just trying to state an opinion and declare it true.
But if you want to state “What’s the best class when we remove magic items from the game for no specific reason other than it makes doing math hard”, then ok.
To make it fun, I changed a few feats to give Wisdom saves a boost to +10 instead of +9. Now an Indomitable Wisdom save on DC19 has an 84% chance of working, and still works 60% of the time even with Portent.
https://ddb.ac/characters/20393806/8jq6Wx
If the Ranger gets Slayers Prey, they can hit reliable every single round with their Reaction. With Archery they have +13 to hit. What is your Wizard’s AC? Can someone link a sheet because I’m hearing all about Wizards with Spell Mastery Shield, Unlimited Fire Bolts, Maxxed out Dex, Maxxed out Int, Maxxed out Con... but no examples.
I haven't built a wizard for this. I don't own most content on D&D Beyond. I do know how the rules work, though, and Chronurgists can force a failed save with Convergent Future. It's not a terrible strategy if you can force them to instantly die.
A Wizard that casts invulnerability automatically wins, as they are immune to damage for 10 minutes, and will be able to deal enough damage in that time with cantrips. Toll of the Dead is my cantrip of choice, which if they fail a saving throw, they take 4d12 necrotic damage, which is an average of 26 damage every round. It doesn't matter if they regenerate, because 26 damage every round if they fail the saving throws means that they will die. You don't have to use spell slots on this, except one 9th level for invulnerability. Wizard wins.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
No, it's really not. The balance of the game doesn't revolve around magic items. It does for Artificers, but not anyone else. Also, the magic items aren't in the PHB, it's in the DMG.
The power of a class is not determined by what magic items they can use, the power of a class, in general, is determined by the abilities the class gets.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Toll the Dead is a Save vs Wis which will succeed only 40% of the time. 40% of 26 is 10.4 damage average per round, which results in 0.4 average damage per round. After 100 rounds that’s 40 damage. 40. Now your Invulnerability is gone, so now what?
Give me the stats you want to use and I’ll throw up a legit link rather than you trying to spitball. That is, if you’re actually interested in proving your hypothesis.
Chronurgy is literally the only option you have. I’m not a fan of Mercer’s notoriously bad balancing for his own world, but I guess if you want to include what is basically Homebrew, I guess that’s the one option that can’t lose.
It's not "basically homebrew" according to WotC. It's balanced according to them.
Spitballing is all that I can do here. I don't own the content of the books on this website, except for Theros. I know the rules, and can find workarounds to this scenario.
The DC for these saving throws with no
First, you're invulnerable for 100 rounds, which will be enough time to do toll of the dead long enough to get the Dwarf to 123 hp, which is the point where the dwarf is just under the threshold to regenerate. All you have to do is deal enough damage in the next few rounds to kill the dwarf. Disintegrate twice, once at level 8, and another time at level 7 should do the trick.
If for some reason this doesn't work, and you have to resort to cantrips from this halfway point, do this:
You can use Convergent Future to cause a fail on Toll of the Dead a few times. Do it 5 times, that's an average of 130 necrotic damage in 5 rounds. After doing this the dwarf starts regenerating 10 hp every round. Your character would regain 50 hp over these 5 rounds, so by the end of these 5 rounds, the dwarf should be at 43 hp. Next round, just cast fireball at level 7, dealing an average of 36 damage, and then the next round, when they have 17 hit points, cast a normal fireball.
It doesn't matter how well you build this martial character, a wizard will win.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Except you forgot Dwarven Fortitude. That’s an extra 200-300 HP (10-15HP per round, on top of the 10HP regenerated). You literally cannot do enough damage with all your spell slots combined to eat through that and have enough to finish it.
And you seem to be completely ignoring Saves and even Shield Master which means even Disintegrate has only a 36% chance of success (Dodging). And if I save, no damage at all (Shield Master). Please go back and check my link closer.
Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
https://ddb.ac/characters/20393806/kHZuIG
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
I agree, magic items can not be included, example would be oh, I'm building a mage killer, I so happen to have ioun stone of greater absorption,
Perhaps an another example could be, I'm a 1st level character with 20 epic boons that can take out an 20 level wizard.
Or it so happens I have 3 ring of 3 wishes.
It would be more about the items than the characters itself.
(obviously, these are extreme situations, but people get the idea)
yeah but, the fighter is ridiculously underpowered against loads of stuff without magic weapons (anything that has resistance to non-magic damage) so perhaps it would be a more accurate contest if the characters were only allowed magic items of a certain level (perhaps uncommon or rare). it's unreasonable to expect 20th level characters to have no magic items that would help them in their fights.
Beardy druid.
Very beardy druid. With a cap.
If the wizard goes first R.I.P. fighter. The wizard polymorphs and kills them before they can cast resistance. If the fighter goes first, they probably cast resistance. Every time they cast resistance, they can't dodge, and if they don't have resistance running, they are instakilled. So basically, the wizard can A. deal enough damage to blast true the dwarfs life (which is going to be very difficult) or B. wait until they eventually run out of hit dice for dwarven fortitude and kill them C. wait until they don't have resistance and kill them.
The problem is, even if the dwarf manages to survive, it has no easy way to kill the wizard. And, dodging is expending resources, so they will eventually lose a battle of attrition.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I forgot to mention that Wish can only duplicate spells of a lower level in this PvP. It is too dm dependent for it to be impartial when you use it for anything else.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Yes, if the Wizard goes first they win. But what’s your Wizards Initiative? Not +7 right? And also not high because you maxed out Int and some Con I’m assuming? So the chance of the Wizard going first is very close to zero.
Now let’s assume the Fighter goes first.
Round 1:
Move away to avoid Counterspell and Resistance is cast. The Dwarf can still Dodge in the following rounds while maintaining it. He doesn’t need to use the Save bonus unless you use Convergent Future. I can’t believe I have to say this again but: *You can not do enough damage than you have spells and spell slots*
Have you ever actually calculated the damage you can do with the spells you have? It’s not enough to burn through someone regenerating 25HP per turn. I don’t know how else to say this. To “burn through” just the first 122 HP it would take you 10+ rounds with Toll the Dead alone.
Then you start using your high level slots like Disintegration at Level 8. It does 16d6+40. Save Chance is 64% (Indom). If I make the save it does zero damage (Shield Master). So your average damage with it is 16*3.5+40 = 96. 96*36% = 34.56. Great. Now I regenerated (Survivor + Dwarven Durability) 25 HP and now my total HP is 112.
Level 7? 13d6+40. 13*3.5+40 = 85.5. 85.5*36% = 30.78. After regeneration I’m down to 106. One more and I’m at 100.
Level 6? 10d6+40. 10d6+40 = 75. 75*36% = 27. After regeneration I’m down to 98. Another and I’m down to 96.
Every other spell after that is never going to do that much damage and I still have 15 Hit Dice to go and you have 16 spell slots. Although I contend after you get below level 4 spells, he won’t need the Dwarven feat anymore at all.
Fireball does 8d6. Won’t need Indom here (and likely will be used up) so that leaves it with a 70% Chance of success. Average damage is 28. 28*70% = 19.6. After regenerating 10 you are only doing around 9.6 per round.
Yay! I’ll take a look 🙂
I actually did max out dex. I used point buy and all in min-maxed the wizard, choosing 3 15s and taking now feats, only asi's. The initiative is +10 because chronologist lets you add intelligence to you initiative.
I'll conceed that the wizard will probably not be able to kill the fighter through damage. (If I were to try, I would be using firebolt, though. And spam it constantly to use up all of the fighters hit dice), so they will have to concoct some other scheme. Maybe true polymorphing into a Balor?
One last question: how does the fighter intend to kill the wizard?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System