Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
How does Resistance make Convergent Future useless? You have to use an action to cast it, it only adds 1d4 to one saving throw. You'd have to just sit there spamming it.
Also I fail to see how Dwarven Fortitude effects this wizard. Sure, you can dodge, but only once a turn, and if you're dodging, you're not casting resistance. Choose one of those tactics. Also, the wizard can counterspell your resistance if it has to.
You're not going to beat the Wizard with this build.
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Hah... I changed it up to include Magic Initiate: Cleric to take Resistance. Now Convergent Future is useless. And it almost entirely negates Poly as well.
Toll the Dead now only has a 35% Chance of working and does an average of 9.1 per round, less than regeneration.
If the wizard goes first R.I.P. fighter. The wizard polymorphs and kills them before they can cast resistance. If the fighter goes first, they probably cast resistance. Every time they cast resistance, they can't dodge, and if they don't have resistance running, they are instakilled. So basically, the wizard can A. deal enough damage to blast true the dwarfs life (which is going to be very difficult) or B. wait until they eventually run out of hit dice for dwarven fortitude and kill them C. wait until they don't have resistance and kill them.
The problem is, even if the dwarf manages to survive, it has no easy way to kill the wizard. And, dodging is expending resources, so they will eventually lose a battle of attrition.
If the Wizard doesn't go first, it still wins. If the fighter attacks the wizard or casts resistance, you can interrupt the casting of the spell with Temporal Shunt, cause it to be wasted, cast invulnerability, and then you can win. The wizard will win.
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yeah but, the fighter is ridiculously underpowered against loads of stuff without magic weapons (anything that has resistance to non-magic damage) so perhaps it would be a more accurate contest if the characters were only allowed magic items of a certain level (perhaps uncommon or rare). it's unreasonable to expect 20th level characters to have no magic items that would help them in their fights.
Wizards don't have any abilities that would make them resistant to non-magical weapon damage. This isn't a problem in balance for the fight. The class is balanced without magic items against another class without magic items.
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Monk might be able to with some luck. They have crazy fast movement, proficiency in all saves, and can reroll saves they don't like. Empty body can help not die. Monks can win on initiative pretty easily. They can also stunning strike the wizard, taking away a round of spells. Evasion's pretty handy as well. If the monk won initiative, I could see them winning the fight.
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Monk might be able to with some luck. They have crazy fast movement, proficiency in all saves, and can reroll saves they don't like. Empty body can help not die. Monks can win on initiative pretty easily. They can also stunning strike the wizard, taking away a round of spells. Evasion's pretty handy as well. If the monk won initiative, I could see them winning the fight.
They are surprisingly good at fighting against wizards, expecially when spamming stunning strike. The problem with this, is you'd have to be a kensei or aarakocra in order to be effective, because if a wizard starts flying, you're dead.
Also, Temporal Shunt still is the best course of action if the Wizard loses initiative, which it will probably not.
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This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
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This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
Wow. That's almost impossible to beat.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
A level 20 cleric with Divine Intervention has the power of a god once a week. Gruumsh, Kord or Torm would deus ex machina win any mortal in a 1v1, rules be damned.
That being said, this forum is starting to sound like a Beholder talking to himself.
This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
Wow. That's almost impossible to beat.
And that's why I continue to defend the wizard. It is much more likely to win than probably any other class or build.
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A level 20 cleric with Divine Intervention has the power of a god once a week. Gruumsh, Kord or Torm would deus ex machina win any mortal in a 1v1, rules be damned.
That being said, this forum is starting to sound like a Beholder talking to himself.
I/we/me/it has been discovered!
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
A level 20 cleric with Divine Intervention has the power of a god once a week. Gruumsh, Kord or Torm would deus ex machina win any mortal in a 1v1, rules be damned.
Up to the DM how that would work. Most DMs would have it just be a spell cast with Divine Intervention.
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How does Resistance make Convergent Future useless? You have to use an action to cast it, it only adds 1d4 to one saving throw. You'd have to just sit there spamming it.
Also I fail to see how Dwarven Fortitude effects this wizard. Sure, you can dodge, but only once a turn, and if you're dodging, you're not casting resistance. Choose one of those tactics. Also, the wizard can counterspell your resistance if it has to.
You're not going to beat the Wizard with this build.
Each time you use Convergent you have to take Exhaustion. The 1d4 addition for Reistsance is apllied AFTER the roll, which guarantees that Convergent will always save (because it sets the roll to 1 below the required save). Read the spell description. Once you’ve used your reaction to cast use Convergent and I’ve used up Resistance, I can cast Resistance again and you can’t Counterspell it because you don’t have a Reaction until your next turn. So now you could keep casting Convergent but eventually you’ll have zero movement and then I can just rest at 200ft or so until your Invulnerability drops.
You can’t Counterspell it on the first turn if I get initiative and move beyond 60 ft. Or are we saying I have to be within 30 ft for you to win?
This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
Still only a 20% chance of working with Shunt. I say we put this to the test. Put together a PDF of your character and I’ll put mine up, and we can test it out round by round. That way you can test all of your theorycrafting instead of rehashing the same thing over and over.
And we can change the title of this to “Nothing beats a Chronurgy Wizard when he wins iniatitive”, rather than the poorly named current one.
Oh, and I assume that buying Adamantine armor works too, since you’re able to purchase Adamantine for your Invulnerability Material components?
I know what Resistance does, but the fact that you have to spam it over and over again isn't a way to use combat. It does make Convergent Future useless if they're dumb enough to use it. Additionally, you counterspell when the spell is cast, not when they force you to fail with Convergent Future. Yes, counterspell and Convergent Future both take reactions, but you wouldn't be doing them at the same time. The fighter casts resistance, and the Wizard counterspells. The Wizard then gets to go, regains the reaction, casts polymorph, forces a fail with Convergent Future, and then combat is over if the Wizard is within range.
Also, why would you start combat by moving back and casting Resistance? That seems like a waste of a turn. May as well attack.
Also, the wizard can move as well. Dwarves have 25 feet movement, and the wizard could very well be an Aarakocra to catch up easily.
You can counterspell on the first turn. You have reactions once initiative starts, not when you take your first turn. Also, the Wizard is more likely to win Initiative.
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Again, going to come down to initiative. If a fighter gets the jump on the wizard and uses all attacks as well as action surge, there is a good chance he can win. If the Wizard doesn't have Invulnerability (and Wish) prepared every day then he is an idiot and deserves to die, but if he gets initiative higher than the fighter he can cast it and just punch him to death over the next hour he can't be hit. That would be with any martial class as well. Cleric has DI which is basically the lvl 20 I win button for them, super OP. Druid you have to do a MASSIVE amount of damage or they can just wildshape back and forth until they wear ya down. The game is not balanced, not even close, and that's ok. Each class has its peaks and valleys and different levels and some just don't measure up at 20. Warlocks, Monks, and Rangers are probably the weakest at 20, but still fun to play. Go the other direction down to tier 1 and Wizards are by far the weakest class where Monks and Rangers shine.
This is a barebones character sheet for the wizard.
I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
Still only a 20% chance of working with Shunt. I say we put this to the test. Put together a PDF of your character and I’ll put mine up, and we can test it out round by round. That way you can test all of your theorycrafting instead of rehashing the same thing over and over.
And we can change the title of this to “Nothing beats a Chronurgy Wizard when he wins iniatitive”, rather than the poorly named current one.
Oh, and I assume that buying Adamantine armor works too, since you’re able to purchase Adamantine for your Invulnerability Material components?
Eh, the title has changed already. I think that we already established that no magic items were allowed, but even if they were adamantine armour wouldn't be that helpful. Also, I already put up a character sheet. We could maybe do the combat in a different thread?
I know what Resistance does, but the fact that you have to spam it over and over again isn't a way to use combat. It does make Convergent Future useless if they're dumb enough to use it. Additionally, you counterspell when the spell is cast, not when they force you to fail with Convergent Future. Yes, counterspell and Convergent Future both take reactions, but you wouldn't be doing them at the same time. The fighter casts resistance, and the Wizard counterspells. The Wizard then gets to go, regains the reaction, casts polymorph, forces a fail with Convergent Future, and then combat is over if the Wizard is within range.
Also, why would you start combat by moving back and casting Resistance? That seems like a waste of a turn. May as well attack.
Also, the wizard can move as well. Dwarves have 25 feet movement, and the wizard could very well be an Aarakocra to catch up easily.
You can counterspell on the first turn. You have reactions once initiative starts, not when you take your first turn. Also, the Wizard is more likely to win Initiative.
The reason that the dwarf casts resistance is that without it, they would be dead just as quickly as if the wizard had gone first. It's the only way to survive.
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Maybe each character would have a budget for items? Say about 50,000 GP? That would allow martial classes to get magic items and magical classes to get spell components.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Maybe each character would have a budget for items? Say about 50,000 GP? That would allow martial classes to get magic items and magical classes to get spell components.
That would probably be the most fair way to do it. After all, most of those crazy high level spells that make wizards nearly auto win most match-ups require pretty spendy components.
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How does Resistance make Convergent Future useless? You have to use an action to cast it, it only adds 1d4 to one saving throw. You'd have to just sit there spamming it.
Also I fail to see how Dwarven Fortitude effects this wizard. Sure, you can dodge, but only once a turn, and if you're dodging, you're not casting resistance. Choose one of those tactics. Also, the wizard can counterspell your resistance if it has to.
You're not going to beat the Wizard with this build.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If the Wizard doesn't go first, it still wins. If the fighter attacks the wizard or casts resistance, you can interrupt the casting of the spell with Temporal Shunt, cause it to be wasted, cast invulnerability, and then you can win. The wizard will win.
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I'd take the Alert feat instead of maxing out Dex. It's a +5 to initiative, so a wizard with a 16 DEX 20 INT and Alert would have a +13 to initiative.
It is important to go first, because then you can instantly win. If you don't go first somehow, you can just cast Temporal Shunt.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Wizards don't have any abilities that would make them resistant to non-magical weapon damage. This isn't a problem in balance for the fight. The class is balanced without magic items against another class without magic items.
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Monk might be able to with some luck. They have crazy fast movement, proficiency in all saves, and can reroll saves they don't like. Empty body can help not die. Monks can win on initiative pretty easily. They can also stunning strike the wizard, taking away a round of spells. Evasion's pretty handy as well. If the monk won initiative, I could see them winning the fight.
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
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They are surprisingly good at fighting against wizards, expecially when spamming stunning strike. The problem with this, is you'd have to be a kensei or aarakocra in order to be effective, because if a wizard starts flying, you're dead.
Also, Temporal Shunt still is the best course of action if the Wizard loses initiative, which it will probably not.
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Good idea on the feat. I made the character pretty fast, and didn't look for feats.
What does Temporal Shunt do?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Banishes them as a reaction until the start of their next turn. It can trigger if the other character casts a spell or makes an attack. You intercept their attack/spell, and then they're gone for their round and their action is wasted.
Basically, if the fighter tries to attack the first round, or cast Guidance, they're gone, and you cast Invulnerability, or ready Polymorph to turn them into a frog.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Wow. That's almost impossible to beat.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
A level 20 cleric with Divine Intervention has the power of a god once a week. Gruumsh, Kord or Torm would deus ex machina win any mortal in a 1v1, rules be damned.
That being said, this forum is starting to sound like a Beholder talking to himself.
And that's why I continue to defend the wizard. It is much more likely to win than probably any other class or build.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I/we/me/it has been discovered!
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Up to the DM how that would work. Most DMs would have it just be a spell cast with Divine Intervention.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Each time you use Convergent you have to take Exhaustion. The 1d4 addition for Reistsance is apllied AFTER the roll, which guarantees that Convergent will always save (because it sets the roll to 1 below the required save). Read the spell description. Once you’ve used your reaction to cast use Convergent and I’ve used up Resistance, I can cast Resistance again and you can’t Counterspell it because you don’t have a Reaction until your next turn. So now you could keep casting Convergent but eventually you’ll have zero movement and then I can just rest at 200ft or so until your Invulnerability drops.
You can’t Counterspell it on the first turn if I get initiative and move beyond 60 ft. Or are we saying I have to be within 30 ft for you to win?
Still only a 20% chance of working with Shunt. I say we put this to the test. Put together a PDF of your character and I’ll put mine up, and we can test it out round by round. That way you can test all of your theorycrafting instead of rehashing the same thing over and over.
And we can change the title of this to “Nothing beats a Chronurgy Wizard when he wins iniatitive”, rather than the poorly named current one.
Oh, and I assume that buying Adamantine armor works too, since you’re able to purchase Adamantine for your Invulnerability Material components?
I know what Resistance does, but the fact that you have to spam it over and over again isn't a way to use combat. It does make Convergent Future useless if they're dumb enough to use it. Additionally, you counterspell when the spell is cast, not when they force you to fail with Convergent Future. Yes, counterspell and Convergent Future both take reactions, but you wouldn't be doing them at the same time. The fighter casts resistance, and the Wizard counterspells. The Wizard then gets to go, regains the reaction, casts polymorph, forces a fail with Convergent Future, and then combat is over if the Wizard is within range.
Also, why would you start combat by moving back and casting Resistance? That seems like a waste of a turn. May as well attack.
Also, the wizard can move as well. Dwarves have 25 feet movement, and the wizard could very well be an Aarakocra to catch up easily.
You can counterspell on the first turn. You have reactions once initiative starts, not when you take your first turn. Also, the Wizard is more likely to win Initiative.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Again, going to come down to initiative. If a fighter gets the jump on the wizard and uses all attacks as well as action surge, there is a good chance he can win. If the Wizard doesn't have Invulnerability (and Wish) prepared every day then he is an idiot and deserves to die, but if he gets initiative higher than the fighter he can cast it and just punch him to death over the next hour he can't be hit. That would be with any martial class as well. Cleric has DI which is basically the lvl 20 I win button for them, super OP. Druid you have to do a MASSIVE amount of damage or they can just wildshape back and forth until they wear ya down. The game is not balanced, not even close, and that's ok. Each class has its peaks and valleys and different levels and some just don't measure up at 20. Warlocks, Monks, and Rangers are probably the weakest at 20, but still fun to play. Go the other direction down to tier 1 and Wizards are by far the weakest class where Monks and Rangers shine.
Eh, the title has changed already. I think that we already established that no magic items were allowed, but even if they were adamantine armour wouldn't be that helpful. Also, I already put up a character sheet. We could maybe do the combat in a different thread?
The reason that the dwarf casts resistance is that without it, they would be dead just as quickly as if the wizard had gone first. It's the only way to survive.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Maybe each character would have a budget for items? Say about 50,000 GP? That would allow martial classes to get magic items and magical classes to get spell components.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
That would probably be the most fair way to do it. After all, most of those crazy high level spells that make wizards nearly auto win most match-ups require pretty spendy components.