Yeah, that's why I used a lot of "may's" and "probably's" lol. I've never actually played on a VTT, I've just used Roll20 to project maps with Fog Of War.
My assumptions about how the VTT relationships work is based on what I've heard in interviews on Dragon Talk.
What would be nice is if in future, hardback books come with a D&D Beyond activation code that allows their use on D&D Beyond. Similar to how if you buy a vinyl album you get a download code to get the content digitally for free. From what I see here, that would require agreement between WotC and Curse. For the same amount of money to be charged for the books, someone has to take a hit, somewhere. Currently it's the consumer of course (extra charge for digital), which hurts the reputation of both companies - but especially WotC who are the 'face' of the whole thing. If they translate that into lost dollars, perhaps they'll cut Curse into the physical sales and we can get this thing on the road in a sensible manner.
Meanwhile I've spent about $20 on content I already had grrrr.
As has has been explained ad nauseam here in this thread and others... that is never going to happen.
D&D Beyond is NOT Wizards of the Coast. D&D Beyond is also NOT the only online digital version of the rule books, there is also Roll20 (which has the Monster Manual and various adventures) and Fantasy Grounds (which has the core rule books + adventures).
Unless you think buying the physical book once should unlock the same content on every digital sight, which is also never going to happen, because economics.
Honestly the biggest problem with the launch of D&D Beyond has been a lack of education by WotC about how this business works. I get the feeling a lot of people, especially newer players, assume that DDB is some official wing of WotC, and that WotC controls it.
If WotC had created their own digital tool and run it themselves, then people might have a legitimate argument for "unlock codes".
I am absolutely done arguing, I promise, but I do want to share my perspective on this, as it seems that a gap in perspectives is the cause of a lot of arguments in this thread, mine included.
The major difference, to me, between D&D Beyond and Roll20/Fantasy Grounds, is that both Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds do not exist solely for 5th Edition, and in fact I'm pretty sure predate it. D&D Beyond is dedicated explicitly to 5th Edition and at a result it creates the perspective that it is a collaboration between Curse and Wizards, rather than mere licensing. The site also holds pretty similarly to the same aesthetic as the official Wizards site, and on the official site there's currently, effectively, an advertisement for D&D Beyond on it.
Related, Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds both provide a function- a virtual tabletop. (Unless I've totally missed something and D&D Beyond actually provides this, which is definitely possible.) Any content I purchase for those sites is integrated to that existing service. While D&D Beyond creates the perception that I am paying for something I already own, Fantasy Grounds and Roll20 create the perception that I am enhancing the tool that I'm already using.
Again, not communicating anything here other than how I feel the differences affect my perception of the products.
I can also agree with your perception. I think they also get a lot of business from making DDB seamless to the official D&D website. There was banter of partnering up with Roll20, but not sure how that would work out.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I have already bought the 5 main content books, why should I have to pay again for content. I should be able to scan the UPC code and get full access to the books in the app.
I have already bought the 5 main content books, why should I have to pay again for content. I should be able to scan the UPC code and get full access to the books in the app.
This is a WOTC issue, not a DDB issue. You would need a better proof of purchase than just scanning the UPC. I could just go through the bookstore and take pictures if that was all.
I have already bought the 5 main content books, why should I have to pay again for content. I should be able to scan the UPC code and get full access to the books in the app.
Go back, read this thread and pretend we're arguing with you. That'll save everyone a lot of grief.
I have already bought the 5 main content books, why should I have to pay again for content. I should be able to scan the UPC code and get full access to the books in the app.
Go back, read this thread and pretend we're arguing with you. That'll save everyone a lot of grief.
Please can we have a bot that just automatically posts this perfect response automatically
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
When it comes to expansions I understand- the site needs to make money somehow, so locking some extra content is perfectly reasonable. But, without wanting to bring up the buying a digital AND real versions of the guidebook again, I'd say the content of the player's handbook constitutes basic D&D content. The options you really have beyond lvl 1 suddenly drop to praticatically nonexistent without that content. So, although I very much this comment will elicit any kind of actual effect, I do feel the need to protest not being granted access to base D&D content without a 30 dollar paywall.
Still, I shouldn't complain without trying to at least offer an alternative, and I would say a midway point can be met. Instead of putting content behind a paywall, keep info on it behind a paywall. That way if someone already has a book, then they can look up that info on their book and use what they want, but not having them someone wouldn't know how a particular subrace is for instance, and not pick that option. It's not perfect, certainly having some leaks, but I'd say it's a fair compromise. I'm not in charge though, so naturally do as you believe to be best, but I needed to vent my protest over the frankly ludicrous degree to which/ amout of content is blocked.
Wizards of the Coast define which of their property can be given away free and which is licensed and must be paid for.
If D&D beyond decided to give away a free Player's Handbook to every user (over half a million of them) that would be a lot of licensing money they owed to WotC! I don't know the exact amount but I imagine we're talking at least $10 per book, so over $5 million in fees.
It's been about 18 years now that this really interesting phenomenon of "more of this game should be free" has been going on.
Before WotC introduced the world to the Open Gaming License, nobody expected to get any part of any table-top role-playing game as a freebie. But now that the license is out there, people act like not giving away even more stuff is some kind of villainous act... and yet there are still plenty of games out there that don't give anything away for free (barring things like simplified quick-starts or demo versions), and guess how often people complain about the makers of those games not giving their work away for free - pretty much never.
So WotC gives the core of the 5th edition game away for free (the basic rules and SRD), and even adds some more content that can be used without paying anything (the elemental evil player's companion, unearthed arcana articles)... and somehow they are putting up a "paywall" and it's totally unfair.
I have been following this for awhile now and i know this is a place for geeks. :)
But i have three hobbies. DnD, golf and painting. And even though i have most of the books in hardcopy i still buy the stuff i need here as it enhance the experience of one of my hobbies. And DnD is still my cheapest hobbie of the three of them.
What is good about this hobbie is that you dont need to invest anything into DnD Beyond to enjoy DnD.
But we as a group have bought all books here and the rest in the group that dont want to pay, use a free account and we share the books. Its a perfect setup as it caters to all individuals in the group.
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I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
Wizards of the Coast define which of their property can be given away free and which is licensed and must be paid for.
If D&D beyond decided to give away a free Player's Handbook to every user (over half a million of them) that would be a lot of licensing money they owed to WotC! I don't know the exact amount but I imagine we're talking at least $10 per book, so over $5 million in fees.
I see. I suppose I misunderstood the setup after what I read throughout the thread, so while I still feel pretty cheated as a user of the site, I guess it's understandable why from your side you couldn't do this. The people running the site do need the money to put food on the table after all, even if that ends up being a bit of a headache for someone whose excitement is really undercut by these overwhelming limitations.
Thanks for taking the time to adress my concerns! Best of luck !
Wizards of the Coast define which of their property can be given away free and which is licensed and must be paid for.
If D&D beyond decided to give away a free Player's Handbook to every user (over half a million of them) that would be a lot of licensing money they owed to WotC! I don't know the exact amount but I imagine we're talking at least $10 per book, so over $5 million in fees.
I see. I suppose I misunderstood the setup after what I read throughout the thread, so while I still feel pretty cheated as a user of the site, I guess it's understandable why from your side you couldn't do this. The people running the site do need the money to put food on the table after all, even if that ends up being a bit of a headache for someone whose excitement is really undercut by these overwhelming limitations.
Thanks for taking the time to adress my concerns! Best of luck !
I hate that you feel cheated by the arrangement between Curse and WOTC. Allow me to tell you my experience with the site here in the hopes that it will abate that feeling.
I've been here since the beta began last year. Immediately, the searchable compendium of the basic rules which covers the mechanics of 5e sold me. The responsiveness and engagement of the developer team and the mods was another plus. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase the Legendary Bundle as soon as it was available. I get that not everyone is. But Curse have worked out so many ways to get access to the paid content: If I wanted only the bits and bobs for my character, I can buy it piecemeal. And everything I buy from a sourcebook or adventure book here reduces the price of the whole book in case I decide to go all in and buy that book. If I already have a character creator software I like and just want digital access to the books, I can just buy the compendium material. And again, that deducts from the overall price of the book.
Or if I don't want to purchase anything, I have other options. I can nearly build anything homebrew (still lacking the ability to homebrew sub-classes for a short while longer) and use it. Currently, the system is designed to enforce 5e rules, but greater flexibility in that regard is on its way too. (I see a lot of folks asking for feats out of normal progression, for instance, because that appears to be a not uncommon house rule.)
Here's what I did. I knew my regular gaming group would not likely buy into DDB. As DM, I had already bought the Legendary Bundle, but I also purchased a Master tier subscription. Now I can share everything I have bought and built with up to 36 people who have paid nothing. Now all of my slow-adopters have come aboard.
Some folks are frustrated about the campaign management tool, the lack of an encounter creator, or the admittedly weak PDF export. But for me, DDB was worth what I spent from the get-go. Every update and improvement has only increased the value of my purchase. Yes, there are blips here and there that the team (which appears to be juggling many balls) are still working on that are frustrating to me. But already the system is flexible enough that my gaming group has devised work-arounds until these issues are addressed. Until campaign management is more robust, I already have a system for keeping up with it just as I did before DDB existed. The PDF export is form-fillable, so I type in what I need on the sheet before I print it. I'm not a VTT guy since my group meets face-to-face, so I am not worried about DDB exploring that angle.
I am super excited about the digital character sheet revamp that is coming soon. The current one already looks pretty decent to me; it just needs some tweaks. The mock-ups of the new one are amazing. My players are using the sheet to keep track of hit points, spell slots, limited-use items, you name it.
It seems to me that Curse has tried to make legal digital access to D&D as cheap as possible for groups that don't necessarily use a virtual tabletop. For VTT users, I imagine Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 are going to be a better investment. But if you are playing face-to-face or via Skype or Twitch (that integration is coming) and don't need all the bells and whistles of those two VTT services, then maybe this is the investment for you. And of course, if the convenience is not worth the cost, that is always the consumer's call. For my group, it has been worth it.
Wizards of the Coast define which of their property can be given away free and which is licensed and must be paid for.
If D&D beyond decided to give away a free Player's Handbook to every user (over half a million of them) that would be a lot of licensing money they owed to WotC! I don't know the exact amount but I imagine we're talking at least $10 per book, so over $5 million in fees.
I see. I suppose I misunderstood the setup after what I read throughout the thread, so while I still feel pretty cheated as a user of the site, I guess it's understandable why from your side you couldn't do this. The people running the site do need the money to put food on the table after all, even if that ends up being a bit of a headache for someone whose excitement is really undercut by these overwhelming limitations.
Thanks for taking the time to adress my concerns! Best of luck !
I hate that you feel cheated by the arrangement between Curse and WOTC. Allow me to tell you my experience with the site here in the hopes that it will abate that feeling.
I've been here since the beta began last year. Immediately, the searchable compendium of the basic rules which covers the mechanics of 5e sold me. The responsiveness and engagement of the developer team and the mods was another plus. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase the Legendary Bundle as soon as it was available. I get that not everyone is. But Curse have worked out so many ways to get access to the paid content: If I wanted only the bits and bobs for my character, I can buy it piecemeal. And everything I buy from a sourcebook or adventure book here reduces the price of the whole book in case I decide to go all in and buy that book. If I already have a character creator software I like and just want digital access to the books, I can just buy the compendium material. And again, that deducts from the overall price of the book.
Or if I don't want to purchase anything, I have other options. I can nearly build anything homebrew (still lacking the ability to homebrew sub-classes for a short while longer) and use it. Currently, the system is designed to enforce 5e rules, but greater flexibility in that regard is on its way too. (I see a lot of folks asking for feats out of normal progression, for instance, because that appears to be a not uncommon house rule.)
Here's what I did. I knew my regular gaming group would not likely buy into DDB. As DM, I had already bought the Legendary Bundle, but I also purchased a Master tier subscription. Now I can share everything I have bought and built with up to 36 people who have paid nothing. Now all of my slow-adopters have come aboard.
Some folks are frustrated about the campaign management tool, the lack of an encounter creator, or the admittedly weak PDF export. But for me, DDB was worth what I spent from the get-go. Every update and improvement has only increased the value of my purchase. Yes, there are blips here and there that the team (which appears to be juggling many balls) are still working on that are frustrating to me. But already the system is flexible enough that my gaming group has devised work-arounds until these issues are addressed. Until campaign management is more robust, I already have a system for keeping up with it just as I did before DDB existed. The PDF export is form-fillable, so I type in what I need on the sheet before I print it. I'm not a VTT guy since my group meets face-to-face, so I am not worried about DDB exploring that angle.
I am super excited about the digital character sheet revamp that is coming soon. The current one already looks pretty decent to me; it just needs some tweaks. The mock-ups of the new one are amazing. My players are using the sheet to keep track of hit points, spell slots, limited-use items, you name it.
It seems to me that Curse has tried to make legal digital access to D&D as cheap as possible for groups that don't necessarily use a virtual tabletop. For VTT users, I imagine Fantasy Grounds or Roll20 are going to be a better investment. But if you are playing face-to-face or via Skype or Twitch (that integration is coming) and don't need all the bells and whistles of those two VTT services, then maybe this is the investment for you. And of course, if the convenience is not worth the cost, that is always the consumer's call. For my group, it has been worth it.
It is indeed an impressive work they have done, and thank you for trying to make me feel better about this. By no means do I want to undermine or underapreciate what the site and the people who work on it provide us. However, as I stated earlier (and even though it has been clarified to me that the official position of wizards states differently) the feeling I get is that for something that I expected to give me something while being free I didn't even get the basics, and as a college student 30 dollars is one heck of a price to pay for the kind of content it unlocks, the things I would find to be the basic. Hence why I feel cheated, it seems too restrictive when I literally don't have other options.
That said, however I feel about the matter, it's none of the staff's concern. My circumstances are not their fault or responsibility. So if I feel bad about this, well, life's like that sometimes. I gotta take it, live with it, and hope maybe I will get the opportunity to improve my circumstances sometime.
I do feel for the budget constraints. One option, if you have the time, and if character creation is your primary interest, is to homebrew what you need. You can't currently homebrew subclasses, but that is coming.
D&D Beyond occasionally has sales. In addition, there's a once-per-account code you can use to get $10 off a supplement, such as the Player's Handbook. You can find this code by watching the intro to Critical Role's latest campaign—D&D Beyond is sponsoring their show!
I hope these help anyone who can't afford full prices right now.
I do feel for the budget constraints. One option, if you have the time, and if character creation is your primary interest, is to homebrew what you need. You can't currently homebrew subclasses, but that is coming.
Can the discounts be added to that thing @villaintheory mentioned?
I think one thing that is maybe telling is that Ideaprophet referred to DDB as "digital" and the print books as "real." Now, maybe they didn't intend it this way--I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and even assume they didn't intend it that way--but I think this gets to the heart of why so many people have difficulty with the idea of paying for DDB. They don't see it as something tangible. They can't hold it in their hands, so it's not "real," and why would you pay for something that's not "real"? This is compounded by the idea that DDB isn't worthwhile content in and of itself, but only ancillary/supplemental to the "real" content, which is the books. And to be honest, it's not surprising that this is how people think of it, because that's largely how digital toolsets like this have operated in the past. So, I get it. I really do.
But D&D Beyond isn't those old toolsets, and it's not merely a supplement to the books. The "beyond" in the name is apparently for "beyond the tabletop," and I think that says a lot about what this service is and does. It's not something intended to be used in addition to or next to the books (although it can be used that way, and used well that way) but as an alternative to or even replacement to the old way of doing things. And if you're not interested in that, of adopting a whole new ecosystem, that's fine, and DDB has you covered there--you can use the tools for free, you can plug in information from the books you paid for (as long as you don't share it) or you can purchase the options you need piecemeal. Is it incomplete that way? Of course it is, because that's only a small part of what it does, and where it really shines is when you embrace the new ecosystem as a new approach to playing your game.
I was pretty bummed at first about paying for the books "again" and I still feel very strongly that there should be some sort of synergy happening that makes things easier on people who've bought the print books and now want to use DDB. Unlike some here, I don't think that's an impossible thing to ask for, nor is it answered by the shouted refrain that "Curse is not Wizards!" that we hear so often. BUT! Having purchased the legendary bundle fairly early on, and getting the Master Tier subscription, and then pre-ordering XGtE, I don't feel ripped off in the slightest. Yes, I paid "again" for a lot of content I already owned in a different format--eight books worth, in fact!--but after getting to know the toolset and everything it does, I made the realization that I hadn't just purchased content I already owned in a more convenient/searchable format--I unlocked something different, something new: a whole set of tools (and the promise of many more) that has legitimately changed the way I approach this game both as a DM and a player. Some of it is just quality of life sort of things--like it's super handy to be able to use the search function to find what I'm looking for--but if this were just a digital version of the books that's where things would end. But it's more than that. It's a streamlined experience at the table, it's a way of bringing people together, it's a way of bringing new people to the game, and so much more.
I'm sure that sounds like hyperbole, but it's true. As an example, I'm DMing a new campaign that has several players who have either never played before or who have only played a time or two. We were able to work through character creation in a fraction of the time it used to take, sitting down with the PHB and a blank character sheet, having to explain every detail, saying "oh it might actually make more sense if we do things in this order instead," and so on. What I realized during this was that if I hadn't even been there, my players--even the new ones--would have been able to successfully create a character just following the on-screen instructions. And that was kind of an amazing feeling. I got to be there to answer questions and offer encouragement without having to explain and re-explain the process a million times only for them to still not really get it. So often character creation with a new player leads to them saying something along the lines of "okay, I don't really get it but I'll go with it." This time, the process resulted in everyone actually getting it. That was huge, and it allowed me to be more active in the creative parts of the process--helping come up with backstory, asking the players questions about who their characters are to really get them thinking--and explaining the smaller questions they had vs. being wrapped up in the labored and minutia-laden process that character creation so often is. We've also been able to share content and ideas in a much more streamlined way, and I feel like I'm actually collaborating with my players in a way that I really haven't in the past. Sure, there are other online tools that could help do that, but not that are all in one place, that work as well, or that offer the streamlined experience that DDB does.
Where I'm at now is that I actually see myself using DDB as my primary toolset (as a DM and as a player). I'll buy things here first, and if I feel a need (or desire, ha) to have the books on hand--maybe there's a good reason why being able to open the book in front of me will be worthwhile, or maybe it'll look nice on my shelf, or hey, let's be honest, having physical books is nice and I love paging through them and looking at the pictures and the smell of the ink and all that. But I no longer see the books as primary and DDB as secondary. It's actually switched for me, and I couldn't be happier or more excited.
Now, maybe that new approach to playing isn't what everyone is looking for. And that's absolutely fine! If you're just looking for a character creator, you can do that here. Or one of the million other websites and apps that help you do it. If you're disappointed in the lack of a campaign management system--that's fair! But a.) it's coming, and b.) in the meantime there are other resources that you can use. If all you want is a digital version of the books--well, I'm sorry that WotC doesn't release them in PDF format, that stinks. But there is apparently an e-reader coming where you can access the books digitally. But the main point is that this isn't just a digital version of the books. It really, really isn't. And I think if you accept DDB for what it is, for what it's trying to do, paying for the content makes a lot more sense. Because you aren't paying for the content "again." You are paying for a whole different approach to the game.
While there have been all kinds of analogies involving books and movies, or DVDs and blu-rays, or whatever in order to explain how DDB is different than the books you've already paid for--they all miss the mark. Because this is far more similar to purchasing a new and different book than it is viewing the same content in a different media. Or maybe a better analogy--when a new edition comes out, are you able to look at it and judge it on its own merits or just complain that you "have to" buy all the books again for the new edition? Because I think that's actually what DDB is like, only the system is backwards compatible--you don't have to buy new versions of the books to use it, but there are tangible benefits to doing so.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people who come here complaining about having to pay for content they already own seem to want it both ways. They want access to that whole different approach--or at least some piece of it--without having to pay for it. Sometimes they realize that DDB isn't what they want at all, and they wish it were something different, but a lot of times it feels more like people feeling entitled to getting something for nothing. At least that's how it feels to the folks who've really adopted this new toolset/ecosystem, fair or not, and that's why this conversation gets harder and harder to have, and everyone becomes more hardened in their position and willing to die on that particular hill in an all-out battle. But I think if you look at what DDB actually offers, and you want in on that, you have to come to terms with the fact that it's not a free product, and will never be a free product, and can't be a free product for all kinds of reasons enumerated over and over in this thread. And if you look at DDB and what it offers and you think, oh, that's not actually what I wanted at all--that's fine. You don't have to use it. Just because it's "an official digital toolset" doesn't mean you're required to sign up. You can probably find what you're looking for elsewhere. But if you truly can't, if it's actually the case that you do want what DDB offers but you just don't want to pay for it, that gets frustrating. And it feels like so many of the people who come to threads like this arguing that they shouldn't have to pay are in that camp. I choose to believe that's not the case, that most folks really either don't quite get what makes DDB special and worthwhile as a product on its own and not just a supplement to the books, or they are looking for something other than what DDB actually offers. But the longer this goes on, the more times this argument happens, the harder it gets to maintain that outlook. And that's a bummer.
I think part of it is a problem of marketing. I'm not sure the messaging about what DDB is or does has been as strong as it could be. I think that's a fair criticism, and certainly it must be true if we have to keep having this same argument over and over again. I refuse to accept that everyone coming here is deliberately misunderstanding what DDB is and does. So I think that's something that folks can work on, including those of us who love this service--maybe we can all focus on what DDB offers instead of why the people who don't seem to get it are wrong, or idiots, or don't understand how capitalism works or whatever. I think we all could do a better job of being ambassadors for this service but much of the internet seems to only be about proving you're right and the other guy is wrong. I know that's something I'm trying to work on.
At the end of the day, what it comes down to is that this is something different than the books. And if you can't see that, you can't see it. And if you don't want that, then that's totally fine! But instead of arguing that what DDB is should be what you want it to be, maybe think twice about what that's going to accomplish other than starting the millionth argument.
(sorry ideaprophet, this isn't really directed at you--just more something that's been brewing in my head for a while and felt like it needed saying.)
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
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Yeah, that's why I used a lot of "may's" and "probably's" lol. I've never actually played on a VTT, I've just used Roll20 to project maps with Fog Of War.
My assumptions about how the VTT relationships work is based on what I've heard in interviews on Dragon Talk.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I have already bought the 5 main content books, why should I have to pay again for content. I should be able to scan the UPC code and get full access to the books in the app.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
i wish.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
When it comes to expansions I understand- the site needs to make money somehow, so locking some extra content is perfectly reasonable. But, without wanting to bring up the buying a digital AND real versions of the guidebook again, I'd say the content of the player's handbook constitutes basic D&D content. The options you really have beyond lvl 1 suddenly drop to praticatically nonexistent without that content. So, although I very much this comment will elicit any kind of actual effect, I do feel the need to protest not being granted access to base D&D content without a 30 dollar paywall.
Still, I shouldn't complain without trying to at least offer an alternative, and I would say a midway point can be met. Instead of putting content behind a paywall, keep info on it behind a paywall. That way if someone already has a book, then they can look up that info on their book and use what they want, but not having them someone wouldn't know how a particular subrace is for instance, and not pick that option. It's not perfect, certainly having some leaks, but I'd say it's a fair compromise. I'm not in charge though, so naturally do as you believe to be best, but I needed to vent my protest over the frankly ludicrous degree to which/ amout of content is blocked.
If you would like to suggest to them that their most popular book is given away for free, you can contact them via their website. :)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Wizards of the Coast define which of their property can be given away free and which is licensed and must be paid for.
If D&D beyond decided to give away a free Player's Handbook to every user (over half a million of them) that would be a lot of licensing money they owed to WotC! I don't know the exact amount but I imagine we're talking at least $10 per book, so over $5 million in fees.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
It's been about 18 years now that this really interesting phenomenon of "more of this game should be free" has been going on.
Before WotC introduced the world to the Open Gaming License, nobody expected to get any part of any table-top role-playing game as a freebie. But now that the license is out there, people act like not giving away even more stuff is some kind of villainous act... and yet there are still plenty of games out there that don't give anything away for free (barring things like simplified quick-starts or demo versions), and guess how often people complain about the makers of those games not giving their work away for free - pretty much never.
So WotC gives the core of the 5th edition game away for free (the basic rules and SRD), and even adds some more content that can be used without paying anything (the elemental evil player's companion, unearthed arcana articles)... and somehow they are putting up a "paywall" and it's totally unfair.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
I do feel for the budget constraints. One option, if you have the time, and if character creation is your primary interest, is to homebrew what you need. You can't currently homebrew subclasses, but that is coming.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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I hope these help anyone who can't afford full prices right now.
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My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
I think one thing that is maybe telling is that Ideaprophet referred to DDB as "digital" and the print books as "real." Now, maybe they didn't intend it this way--I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and even assume they didn't intend it that way--but I think this gets to the heart of why so many people have difficulty with the idea of paying for DDB. They don't see it as something tangible. They can't hold it in their hands, so it's not "real," and why would you pay for something that's not "real"? This is compounded by the idea that DDB isn't worthwhile content in and of itself, but only ancillary/supplemental to the "real" content, which is the books. And to be honest, it's not surprising that this is how people think of it, because that's largely how digital toolsets like this have operated in the past. So, I get it. I really do.
But D&D Beyond isn't those old toolsets, and it's not merely a supplement to the books. The "beyond" in the name is apparently for "beyond the tabletop," and I think that says a lot about what this service is and does. It's not something intended to be used in addition to or next to the books (although it can be used that way, and used well that way) but as an alternative to or even replacement to the old way of doing things. And if you're not interested in that, of adopting a whole new ecosystem, that's fine, and DDB has you covered there--you can use the tools for free, you can plug in information from the books you paid for (as long as you don't share it) or you can purchase the options you need piecemeal. Is it incomplete that way? Of course it is, because that's only a small part of what it does, and where it really shines is when you embrace the new ecosystem as a new approach to playing your game.
I was pretty bummed at first about paying for the books "again" and I still feel very strongly that there should be some sort of synergy happening that makes things easier on people who've bought the print books and now want to use DDB. Unlike some here, I don't think that's an impossible thing to ask for, nor is it answered by the shouted refrain that "Curse is not Wizards!" that we hear so often. BUT! Having purchased the legendary bundle fairly early on, and getting the Master Tier subscription, and then pre-ordering XGtE, I don't feel ripped off in the slightest. Yes, I paid "again" for a lot of content I already owned in a different format--eight books worth, in fact!--but after getting to know the toolset and everything it does, I made the realization that I hadn't just purchased content I already owned in a more convenient/searchable format--I unlocked something different, something new: a whole set of tools (and the promise of many more) that has legitimately changed the way I approach this game both as a DM and a player. Some of it is just quality of life sort of things--like it's super handy to be able to use the search function to find what I'm looking for--but if this were just a digital version of the books that's where things would end. But it's more than that. It's a streamlined experience at the table, it's a way of bringing people together, it's a way of bringing new people to the game, and so much more.
I'm sure that sounds like hyperbole, but it's true. As an example, I'm DMing a new campaign that has several players who have either never played before or who have only played a time or two. We were able to work through character creation in a fraction of the time it used to take, sitting down with the PHB and a blank character sheet, having to explain every detail, saying "oh it might actually make more sense if we do things in this order instead," and so on. What I realized during this was that if I hadn't even been there, my players--even the new ones--would have been able to successfully create a character just following the on-screen instructions. And that was kind of an amazing feeling. I got to be there to answer questions and offer encouragement without having to explain and re-explain the process a million times only for them to still not really get it. So often character creation with a new player leads to them saying something along the lines of "okay, I don't really get it but I'll go with it." This time, the process resulted in everyone actually getting it. That was huge, and it allowed me to be more active in the creative parts of the process--helping come up with backstory, asking the players questions about who their characters are to really get them thinking--and explaining the smaller questions they had vs. being wrapped up in the labored and minutia-laden process that character creation so often is. We've also been able to share content and ideas in a much more streamlined way, and I feel like I'm actually collaborating with my players in a way that I really haven't in the past. Sure, there are other online tools that could help do that, but not that are all in one place, that work as well, or that offer the streamlined experience that DDB does.
Where I'm at now is that I actually see myself using DDB as my primary toolset (as a DM and as a player). I'll buy things here first, and if I feel a need (or desire, ha) to have the books on hand--maybe there's a good reason why being able to open the book in front of me will be worthwhile, or maybe it'll look nice on my shelf, or hey, let's be honest, having physical books is nice and I love paging through them and looking at the pictures and the smell of the ink and all that. But I no longer see the books as primary and DDB as secondary. It's actually switched for me, and I couldn't be happier or more excited.
Now, maybe that new approach to playing isn't what everyone is looking for. And that's absolutely fine! If you're just looking for a character creator, you can do that here. Or one of the million other websites and apps that help you do it. If you're disappointed in the lack of a campaign management system--that's fair! But a.) it's coming, and b.) in the meantime there are other resources that you can use. If all you want is a digital version of the books--well, I'm sorry that WotC doesn't release them in PDF format, that stinks. But there is apparently an e-reader coming where you can access the books digitally. But the main point is that this isn't just a digital version of the books. It really, really isn't. And I think if you accept DDB for what it is, for what it's trying to do, paying for the content makes a lot more sense. Because you aren't paying for the content "again." You are paying for a whole different approach to the game.
While there have been all kinds of analogies involving books and movies, or DVDs and blu-rays, or whatever in order to explain how DDB is different than the books you've already paid for--they all miss the mark. Because this is far more similar to purchasing a new and different book than it is viewing the same content in a different media. Or maybe a better analogy--when a new edition comes out, are you able to look at it and judge it on its own merits or just complain that you "have to" buy all the books again for the new edition? Because I think that's actually what DDB is like, only the system is backwards compatible--you don't have to buy new versions of the books to use it, but there are tangible benefits to doing so.
Unfortunately, a lot of the people who come here complaining about having to pay for content they already own seem to want it both ways. They want access to that whole different approach--or at least some piece of it--without having to pay for it. Sometimes they realize that DDB isn't what they want at all, and they wish it were something different, but a lot of times it feels more like people feeling entitled to getting something for nothing. At least that's how it feels to the folks who've really adopted this new toolset/ecosystem, fair or not, and that's why this conversation gets harder and harder to have, and everyone becomes more hardened in their position and willing to die on that particular hill in an all-out battle. But I think if you look at what DDB actually offers, and you want in on that, you have to come to terms with the fact that it's not a free product, and will never be a free product, and can't be a free product for all kinds of reasons enumerated over and over in this thread. And if you look at DDB and what it offers and you think, oh, that's not actually what I wanted at all--that's fine. You don't have to use it. Just because it's "an official digital toolset" doesn't mean you're required to sign up. You can probably find what you're looking for elsewhere. But if you truly can't, if it's actually the case that you do want what DDB offers but you just don't want to pay for it, that gets frustrating. And it feels like so many of the people who come to threads like this arguing that they shouldn't have to pay are in that camp. I choose to believe that's not the case, that most folks really either don't quite get what makes DDB special and worthwhile as a product on its own and not just a supplement to the books, or they are looking for something other than what DDB actually offers. But the longer this goes on, the more times this argument happens, the harder it gets to maintain that outlook. And that's a bummer.
I think part of it is a problem of marketing. I'm not sure the messaging about what DDB is or does has been as strong as it could be. I think that's a fair criticism, and certainly it must be true if we have to keep having this same argument over and over again. I refuse to accept that everyone coming here is deliberately misunderstanding what DDB is and does. So I think that's something that folks can work on, including those of us who love this service--maybe we can all focus on what DDB offers instead of why the people who don't seem to get it are wrong, or idiots, or don't understand how capitalism works or whatever. I think we all could do a better job of being ambassadors for this service but much of the internet seems to only be about proving you're right and the other guy is wrong. I know that's something I'm trying to work on.
At the end of the day, what it comes down to is that this is something different than the books. And if you can't see that, you can't see it. And if you don't want that, then that's totally fine! But instead of arguing that what DDB is should be what you want it to be, maybe think twice about what that's going to accomplish other than starting the millionth argument.
(sorry ideaprophet, this isn't really directed at you--just more something that's been brewing in my head for a while and felt like it needed saying.)
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)