We have three multiclass characters. A gish isn’t necessarily a multiclass character, it’s a martial caster mix. If I have to pick a multiclass I’d go padlock, simply because mechanically mashing those two together works best. Otherwise, straight druid. The others (paladin, hexblade, eldritch knight) are fun too, but they’re not shapechangers.
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I'm not sure what synergy you're seeing in Path of the Beast and Druid. PotB is not going to contribute much more than Danger Sense to a CON/WIS build.
And for your Eldritch Knight, if you're going DEX/INT you might as well go full Bladesinger Wizard cause you're not taking advantage of the Fighter's armor proficiencies and big weapons.
Thematically? Eldritch Knight + Wizard. It's got all the correct arcane/elemental themes for a classic swordmage.... The issue is it's got none of the actual abilities needed for a swordmage. So you're just half a caster and half a fighter, rather than being able to properly mix the two.
So in real terms, the paladin + hexblade.
In fact remove the hexblade part, as it's unneeded. Paladin is already a half caster and has a great selection of spells to synergise with martial ability. It's a pity that I hate the theme of a Paladin, but my DM probably would let me replace it all with my own theme. And it's odd how the Ranger is left off this list, as it's pretty solid too.
Mechanically, it's hard to beat a Hexblade/Paladin (or Hexblade/any CHA caster class) - you really only need to focus on CHA since that will drive your melee attacks, ranged attacks (eldritch blast), and spellcasting. STR only really comes into play for wearing heavy armor (which may not even be an issue if you start as a Hexblade).
Isn't the whole point of going Hexblade + Paladin that you don't need your STR, only CHA?
I presume the Druid/Barbarian bit is for a Bar-bear-ian build. Is this really considered a gish build, considering that the purpose is to convert spell slots into HP for extra tankiness?
If you're going to do a fighter/wizard gish build, I'd specificy if its going to be Fighter 2 / Wizard Bladesinger X, or Fighter Eldritch Knight X / Wizard 2, since those two are very different in play. Indeed, I'd actually suggest that you just dump fighter/wizard multiclassing and offer just a pure bladesinger.
I chose druid/barb, just because I've played the other ones a ton.
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I would take hexblade warlock and paladin pesonally, but there are a lotta great builds out there.
Also this got me thinking: unarmed gish, is it possible?, short answer, yes. you could go with a unarmed fighting style fighter that takes eldritch knight/ MC's into paladin, or a immortal mystic would also work great for unarmed gish, I've seen monk and cleric work but I'm pretty sure you mean an arcane gish, but idk.
At best I'd consider a dip in Fighter for Action Surge and such.
I personally prefer Bladesinger, so many options are available with many spells that can assist your battle efforts. Wizards may be squishy in HP but you get a lot in defence.
I loved my bladesinger: Time Stop, buff myself, finish with Tenser's Transformation and play whackamole. With my magic items, Mirror Image, Fire Shield, Shield, and more I was barely touchable and with Absorb Elements for AoEs and the bladesinger's ability to reduce damage with spell slots, and more - yeah, I was outlasting the barb and fighter, out damaging everyone and still had more tricks up my sleeve. Even out of combat, still had a lot of utility to offer.
Having tried eldritch knights and hexblades, I have a hard time thinking of any gish beyond bladesinger being worth taking for an all-around character. The only thing better as a gish would be a Sorcadin if all you want is damage output - something I find far too boring.
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I'd think Ranger/Druid and Ranger/Cleric would be pretty hot rn depending on the subclasses. Assuming your DM is amazing and you play 1 to 20, something like a 5/15 split or 6/14 split depending on if you want 8th level spells. You get a nice little extra attack, martial weapons, and some extra damage dice from subclass features most likely.
Is it better on paper? Without doing the math, maybe but probably not. You give up DI or Archdruid and all that fun stuff that make high level spellcasters worth it. But thematically, it sounds like fun. Unfortunately most multiclass gish aren't going to hold up to a single class gish unless the synergy is super hot fire like Padlock.
I wonder how many problems it would cause to add a feat to convert your melee attacks (at least, with certain weapons) to a different stat. It's already possible to do for Charisma with a one-level hexblade dip, or Wisdom by acquiring Shillelagh. I suppose you might want to disallow Con.
I wonder how many problems it would cause to add a feat to convert your melee attacks (at least, with certain weapons) to a different stat. It's already possible to do for Charisma with a one-level hexblade dip, or Wisdom by acquiring Shillelagh. I suppose you might want to disallow Con.
Whether it's problematic depends on the DM a bit (there's tons of stuff you can do to mitigate any kind of power discrepancy), but keep in mind these two existing options have some significant restrictions. You can't choose just any stat (so no wizards using Int as their weapon attack stat unless they take a three level dip in Artificer), multiclassing often puts an additional stat requirement on your build and slows down your progression in a ton of things (proficiency bonus, ASI acquisition, class abilities including spell level), Shillelagh can only be used with clubs and staves.
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Here we have three Gish builds. Which would you rather play, and why?
We have three multiclass characters. A gish isn’t necessarily a multiclass character, it’s a martial caster mix. If I have to pick a multiclass I’d go padlock, simply because mechanically mashing those two together works best. Otherwise, straight druid. The others (paladin, hexblade, eldritch knight) are fun too, but they’re not shapechangers.
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I'm not sure what synergy you're seeing in Path of the Beast and Druid. PotB is not going to contribute much more than Danger Sense to a CON/WIS build.
And for your Eldritch Knight, if you're going DEX/INT you might as well go full Bladesinger Wizard cause you're not taking advantage of the Fighter's armor proficiencies and big weapons.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Thematically? Eldritch Knight + Wizard. It's got all the correct arcane/elemental themes for a classic swordmage.... The issue is it's got none of the actual abilities needed for a swordmage. So you're just half a caster and half a fighter, rather than being able to properly mix the two.
So in real terms, the paladin + hexblade.
In fact remove the hexblade part, as it's unneeded. Paladin is already a half caster and has a great selection of spells to synergise with martial ability. It's a pity that I hate the theme of a Paladin, but my DM probably would let me replace it all with my own theme. And it's odd how the Ranger is left off this list, as it's pretty solid too.
Mechanically, it's hard to beat a Hexblade/Paladin (or Hexblade/any CHA caster class) - you really only need to focus on CHA since that will drive your melee attacks, ranged attacks (eldritch blast), and spellcasting. STR only really comes into play for wearing heavy armor (which may not even be an issue if you start as a Hexblade).
Paladin/Hexblade is just too good in comparison to the other options.
If i were to pick a second option that isn't on your list, I'd pick bladesinger. The new multiattack is really good with the Gish cantrips.
Isn't the whole point of going Hexblade + Paladin that you don't need your STR, only CHA?
I presume the Druid/Barbarian bit is for a Bar-bear-ian build. Is this really considered a gish build, considering that the purpose is to convert spell slots into HP for extra tankiness?
If you're going to do a fighter/wizard gish build, I'd specificy if its going to be Fighter 2 / Wizard Bladesinger X, or Fighter Eldritch Knight X / Wizard 2, since those two are very different in play. Indeed, I'd actually suggest that you just dump fighter/wizard multiclassing and offer just a pure bladesinger.
I chose druid/barb, just because I've played the other ones a ton.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I would take hexblade warlock and paladin pesonally, but there are a lotta great builds out there.
Also this got me thinking: unarmed gish, is it possible?, short answer, yes. you could go with a unarmed fighting style fighter that takes eldritch knight/ MC's into paladin, or a immortal mystic would also work great for unarmed gish, I've seen monk and cleric work but I'm pretty sure you mean an arcane gish, but idk.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
Plus with hexblade warlock/paladin you could take eldritch smite and smite someone twice with one hit.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
None of the above.
I'd just go Bladesinger or Hexblade.
At best I'd consider a dip in Fighter for Action Surge and such.
I personally prefer Bladesinger, so many options are available with many spells that can assist your battle efforts. Wizards may be squishy in HP but you get a lot in defence.
I loved my bladesinger: Time Stop, buff myself, finish with Tenser's Transformation and play whackamole. With my magic items, Mirror Image, Fire Shield, Shield, and more I was barely touchable and with Absorb Elements for AoEs and the bladesinger's ability to reduce damage with spell slots, and more - yeah, I was outlasting the barb and fighter, out damaging everyone and still had more tricks up my sleeve. Even out of combat, still had a lot of utility to offer.
Having tried eldritch knights and hexblades, I have a hard time thinking of any gish beyond bladesinger being worth taking for an all-around character. The only thing better as a gish would be a Sorcadin if all you want is damage output - something I find far too boring.
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I second pure bladesinger... It's easily the coolest gish in my book.
I'd think Ranger/Druid and Ranger/Cleric would be pretty hot rn depending on the subclasses. Assuming your DM is amazing and you play 1 to 20, something like a 5/15 split or 6/14 split depending on if you want 8th level spells. You get a nice little extra attack, martial weapons, and some extra damage dice from subclass features most likely.
Is it better on paper? Without doing the math, maybe but probably not. You give up DI or Archdruid and all that fun stuff that make high level spellcasters worth it. But thematically, it sounds like fun. Unfortunately most multiclass gish aren't going to hold up to a single class gish unless the synergy is super hot fire like Padlock.
I prefer Eldritch Knight, so I'd go with that. I'd put my points in strength instead of dexterity.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I would probably go with pure hexblade or hexblade/bard, pallock doesn't really feel like a gish to me.
I think Bladesinger sounds dope but I have never read it but these posts make me want to.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
You should. The new Tasha's update makes it pretty viable due to being able to replace an extra attack with a cantrip.
I wonder how many problems it would cause to add a feat to convert your melee attacks (at least, with certain weapons) to a different stat. It's already possible to do for Charisma with a one-level hexblade dip, or Wisdom by acquiring Shillelagh. I suppose you might want to disallow Con.
I just read the SCAG version, it looks great if you’re interested in a fullcasting Gish, and the wizard having steel wind strike doesn’t hurt.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
Whether it's problematic depends on the DM a bit (there's tons of stuff you can do to mitigate any kind of power discrepancy), but keep in mind these two existing options have some significant restrictions. You can't choose just any stat (so no wizards using Int as their weapon attack stat unless they take a three level dip in Artificer), multiclassing often puts an additional stat requirement on your build and slows down your progression in a ton of things (proficiency bonus, ASI acquisition, class abilities including spell level), Shillelagh can only be used with clubs and staves.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].