ok. so i have my head spinning about this topic atm. something that tends to happen when im flipping back and forth between specific wording in the dnd rules.
the Artillerists arcnae fire arm states that you can roll a d8 and add the result to one damage roll you make when you cast an artificer spell through it. now i get that USUALLY this just equates to and extra d8 of damage. you cast firebolt, you add 1d8. your done. but its the wording that sp specific that it makes me wonder if there's and alternative application to this?
"When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus to one of the spell’s damage rolls equal to the number rolled."
so what i glean from this is that, if i cast firebolt at level 5, which deals 2d10 dire damage. im not simply adding a d8, i am taking one of the d10's i rolled, rolling a d8 and adding the result to it. this is strange but functionally has the same effect as just adding a 1d8 to the damage. but its still mechanically slightly different.
for example in an impossible scenario (but one useful for explaining what i mean.) if you COULD cast magic missile as an artificer spell as an artillerist, according to one of the entries in the sage advice compendium. when you roll damage for magic missile you only roll once, and then all your darts deal the rolled damage. that one mean, by the wording in arcan firearm, you roll the ad4,then roll the 1d8 and add the result of the d8 to the result of the 1d4. this means instead of deal deals in 3d4+3 +1d8 damage, you're actually rolling (1d4+1+1d8)*3. so rolling a 2 on the d4, i would add one, then if i rolled a 4 on the d8, I'd add that for 7 force damage per dart. this....is incredibly powerful, but of course artillerists do not get magic missile as an artificer spell. even if you multiclass or use a feat to grab it, it would not be an "artificer spell" so arcane firearm doesn't apply.
but the question still remains. is their a similar use case in which adding the result of a 1d8 to a single roll of a damaging spell is not the same as simply adding a 1d8 to the total damage of the spell?
furthermore, so this apply to spells that might deal extra damage on attacks, for instance "enlarge/reduce" would you add 1d8 to only one of the 1d4's you roll when hitting with one of your enlarged weapons? or is their more to it than just that? food for thought, and i'd love to hear opinions on it.
I don't think that Arcane Firearm would apply to Enlarge because the spell doesn't deal damage itself, it gives the target a modifier to their damage.
As far as Magic Missile goes, I think you're correct so long as you're playing by that method of rolling damage: it's pretty common to roll damage individually for each dart.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
are you sure about the enlarge reduce portion? to be honest im not entirely sure myself, but that almost seems to be spliting hairs. kinda like saying the magical damage from booming blade wouldn't apply because its a "modifier" to the weapon attack you make as part of casting the cantrip. i am leaning towards the notion the arcan firearm does affect the damage of enlarge reduce, but only once.
I'm not sure about the Enlarge, but it's a spell that doesn't damage its target, it adds a modifier to the target's weapon damage rolls. At the very least, it doesn't seem like it's the intent of the ability.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The extra 1d4 damage from Enlarge/Reduce is still weapon damage, it just does more because you're bigger. It does not benefit from Arcane Firearm because it is not spell damage.
With Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade the extra thunder/fire damage comes from the spell directly, so they do count as spell damage and get the extra 1d8 from Arcane Firearm.
You don't add the 1d8 to enlarge/reduce because the bonus only applies to the damage rolls of spells you cast, and the damage roll you get from enlarge/reduce isn't a damage roll belonging to the spell, in the same way that if you cast tiny servant and have your servant throw a magic stone from your party Druid, the resulting damage is not a damage roll of the Tiny Servant spell.
That said, the Artillerist 1d8 does apply to AOEs, such as Fireball and Shatter, both of which are Artillerist Artificer spells. That means you roll the damage once, but everyone hit by the AOE suffers the damage rolled.
If you want to lean into the problems with Arcane Firearm's wording, equip a shield while carrying both an arcane firearm and an enhanced arcane focus. Then cast [Tooltip Not Found] - do you get both +1 to hit and +1d8 to damage? Because casting a spell through an object isn't defined anywhere in the rules, no-one knows the answer to this - to my knowledge we don't even have RAI, as JC has never tweeted about it. The extent question here is whether or not you have to hold the Firearm to "cast through it".
If you want to lean into the problems with Arcane Firearm's wording, equip a shield while carrying both an arcane firearm and an enhanced arcane focus. Then cast [Tooltip Not Found] - do you get both +1 to hit and +1d8 to damage? Because casting a spell through an object isn't defined anywhere in the rules, no-one knows the answer to this - to my knowledge we don't even have RAI, as JC has never tweeted about it. The extent question here is whether or not you have to hold the Firearm to "cast through it".
The link to the final spell you mention in your post didn't work, so it's not clear what you're referring to?
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
for example in an impossible scenario (but one useful for explaining what i mean.) if you COULD cast magic missile as an artificer spell as an artillerist, according to one of the entries in the sage advice compendium. when you roll damage for magic missile you only roll once, and then all your darts deal the rolled damage. that one mean, by the wording in arcan firearm, you roll the ad4,then roll the 1d8 and add the result of the d8 to the result of the 1d4. this means instead of deal deals in 3d4+3 +1d8 damage, you're actually rolling (1d4+1+1d8)*3. so rolling a 2 on the d4, i would add one, then if i rolled a 4 on the d8, I'd add that for 7 force damage per dart. this....is incredibly powerful, but of course artillerists do not get magic missile as an artificer spell. even if you multiclass or use a feat to grab it, it would not be an "artificer spell" so arcane firearm doesn't apply.
Just want to point out that if this scenario did work, it still wouldn't be AF that's broken but rather that interpretation of Magic Missile damage. Not saying it's the wrong way to roll MM damage because that's a whole other can of worms, but there are all kinds of other mechanics that can be abused to buff the one damage roll that is then multiplied by all the missiles.
ok. so i have my head spinning about this topic atm. something that tends to happen when im flipping back and forth between specific wording in the dnd rules.
the Artillerists arcnae fire arm states that you can roll a d8 and add the result to one damage roll you make when you cast an artificer spell through it. now i get that USUALLY this just equates to and extra d8 of damage. you cast firebolt, you add 1d8. your done. but its the wording that sp specific that it makes me wonder if there's and alternative application to this?
"When you cast an artificer spell through the firearm, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus to one of the spell’s damage rolls equal to the number rolled."
so what i glean from this is that, if i cast firebolt at level 5, which deals 2d10 dire damage. im not simply adding a d8, i am taking one of the d10's i rolled, rolling a d8 and adding the result to it. this is strange but functionally has the same effect as just adding a 1d8 to the damage. but its still mechanically slightly different.
for example in an impossible scenario (but one useful for explaining what i mean.) if you COULD cast magic missile as an artificer spell as an artillerist, according to one of the entries in the sage advice compendium. when you roll damage for magic missile you only roll once, and then all your darts deal the rolled damage. that one mean, by the wording in arcan firearm, you roll the ad4,then roll the 1d8 and add the result of the d8 to the result of the 1d4. this means instead of deal deals in 3d4+3 +1d8 damage, you're actually rolling (1d4+1+1d8)*3. so rolling a 2 on the d4, i would add one, then if i rolled a 4 on the d8, I'd add that for 7 force damage per dart. this....is incredibly powerful, but of course artillerists do not get magic missile as an artificer spell. even if you multiclass or use a feat to grab it, it would not be an "artificer spell" so arcane firearm doesn't apply.
but the question still remains. is their a similar use case in which adding the result of a 1d8 to a single roll of a damaging spell is not the same as simply adding a 1d8 to the total damage of the spell?
furthermore, so this apply to spells that might deal extra damage on attacks, for instance "enlarge/reduce" would you add 1d8 to only one of the 1d4's you roll when hitting with one of your enlarged weapons? or is their more to it than just that? food for thought, and i'd love to hear opinions on it.
I don't think that Arcane Firearm would apply to Enlarge because the spell doesn't deal damage itself, it gives the target a modifier to their damage.
As far as Magic Missile goes, I think you're correct so long as you're playing by that method of rolling damage: it's pretty common to roll damage individually for each dart.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
are you sure about the enlarge reduce portion? to be honest im not entirely sure myself, but that almost seems to be spliting hairs. kinda like saying the magical damage from booming blade wouldn't apply because its a "modifier" to the weapon attack you make as part of casting the cantrip. i am leaning towards the notion the arcan firearm does affect the damage of enlarge reduce, but only once.
I'm not sure about the Enlarge, but it's a spell that doesn't damage its target, it adds a modifier to the target's weapon damage rolls. At the very least, it doesn't seem like it's the intent of the ability.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The extra 1d4 damage from Enlarge/Reduce is still weapon damage, it just does more because you're bigger. It does not benefit from Arcane Firearm because it is not spell damage.
With Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade the extra thunder/fire damage comes from the spell directly, so they do count as spell damage and get the extra 1d8 from Arcane Firearm.
You don't add the 1d8 to enlarge/reduce because the bonus only applies to the damage rolls of spells you cast, and the damage roll you get from enlarge/reduce isn't a damage roll belonging to the spell, in the same way that if you cast tiny servant and have your servant throw a magic stone from your party Druid, the resulting damage is not a damage roll of the Tiny Servant spell.
That said, the Artillerist 1d8 does apply to AOEs, such as Fireball and Shatter, both of which are Artillerist Artificer spells. That means you roll the damage once, but everyone hit by the AOE suffers the damage rolled.
If you want to lean into the problems with Arcane Firearm's wording, equip a shield while carrying both an arcane firearm and an enhanced arcane focus. Then cast [Tooltip Not Found] - do you get both +1 to hit and +1d8 to damage? Because casting a spell through an object isn't defined anywhere in the rules, no-one knows the answer to this - to my knowledge we don't even have RAI, as JC has never tweeted about it. The extent question here is whether or not you have to hold the Firearm to "cast through it".
The link to the final spell you mention in your post didn't work, so it's not clear what you're referring to?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just want to point out that if this scenario did work, it still wouldn't be AF that's broken but rather that interpretation of Magic Missile damage. Not saying it's the wrong way to roll MM damage because that's a whole other can of worms, but there are all kinds of other mechanics that can be abused to buff the one damage roll that is then multiplied by all the missiles.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm