In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words.
When the change doesn't harm anyone else.
Anyone who cries because a business is trying to appeal to 100% of the market rather than 90% with no harm to anyone else needs to get a better perspective on it. I mean, it's all just words, right?
Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
I query why your orcs' intelligence are affected by the changes. Play them as evil masterminds, if you wish. Personally, viewing them as.complex and multidimensional creatures makes them more interesting, and therefore more worthy of investing my effort into making them multidimensional. That tends to make them more intelligent by default.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words. Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
In the world where said changes only affect if you want them do.
Which is this world, by the way.
Unless you bought your books on BBD, then it will affect you, because the book you bought will change.
The changes they made were pretty much saying "by the way, you can use other ideas if you want" no actual changes occured to the lore, only suggestions that you can change the lore if you want.
These changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
No one is saying orcs can't be bad in your world. No one is saying you need to run a setting any differently than before. Let's call this a Type A game.
All this does is introduce the option to run things differently. In this world, some orcs are good. You had this option before. It's just presented a bit more directly. Let's call this a Type B game.
All this does is present a Type B game as an option on equal footing with a Type A game. That is literally all it does. For people that want a Type B game, this is huge. For people that want a Type A game, nothing has changed. You still have your damn cookie. Quit complaining that someone else has a cookie now too and just eat your cookie.
What does "woke" mean to you? I looked it up and Google said, "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."
But you use the term in a negative way. How is being alert to injustice a negative thing? Do you feel that making the game inclusive to everyone takes away from your enjoyment of the game? Or is running previous evil races as not always evil too hard? Do you feel Wizards is forcing you to do something you are uncomfortable with?
In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words. Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
In the world where said changes only affect if you want them do.
Which is this world, by the way.
Unless you bought your books on BBD, then it will affect you, because the book you bought will change.
The changes they made were pretty much saying "by the way, you can use other ideas if you want" no actual changes occured to the lore, only suggestions that you can change the lore if you want.
These changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
When entire paragraphs are removed from the book I bought, then it is more than a suggestion on how to play the game. The book I bought is no longer the book I bought.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words. Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
In the world where said changes only affect if you want them do.
Which is this world, by the way.
Unless you bought your books on BBD, then it will affect you, because the book you bought will change.
The changes they made were pretty much saying "by the way, you can use other ideas if you want" no actual changes occured to the lore, only suggestions that you can change the lore if you want.
These changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
When entire paragraphs are removed from the book I bought, then it is more than a suggestion on how to play the game. The book I bought is no longer the book I bought.
I recommend that you buy physical copies if you don't want them to change. The fact that the digital versions purchased on DnDBeyond are subject to change is not new information and is quite well known.
changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
When entire paragraphs are removed from the book I bought, then it is more than a suggestion on how to play the game. The book I bought is no longer the book I bought.
I recommend that you buy physical copies. The fact that the digital versions purchased on DnDBeyond are subject to change is not new information and is quite well known.
I agree. The point I've been trying to make repeatedly is that all the people saying "Just play the game you want, no one is stopping you, your game won't change" are being disingenuous when for people who only use D&D Beyond will have their books/games changed. Not everyone can afford physical copies.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words. Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
In the world where said changes only affect if you want them do.
Which is this world, by the way.
Unless you bought your books on BBD, then it will affect you, because the book you bought will change.
If the temperature goes up one degree that's change, but I'm not likely to notice it. This is the same thing. I don't want to speak for you, maybe you feel differently, but the actual impact of this change on you is very likely entirely negligible and that makes the change itself negligible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Would you prefer that Wizards do nothing and leave those who are currently unwelcome at the table out in the cold?
These changes aren't being made on a lark. The D&D brand is critically important to Wizards of the Coast, they wouldn't make these decisions lightly or out of a flash-in-the-pan fad to appease the Twiterati outrage jockeys. They're doing this because they have reason to do so. Assuming there's a reason for it...what would you suggest, instead?
Would you prefer that Wizards do nothing and leave those who are currently unwelcome at the table out in the cold?
With respect, I think they are welcome at the table regardless. This is about making them feel welcome as well. This may sound pedantic, sorry about that, but the difference matters. Not everybody playing D&D is perfect, but by and large this community is more open-minded and welcoming than most. Which is why the changes are a big step in the right direction: if people who are out in the cold never try to come in because they think the door is locked, that's a crying shame. The door is definitely not locked. It may look like it's closed though, and maybe these changes will put it ever so slightly ajar instead.
The salient point about these changes, to me anyway, is that they can (and hopefully do) affect those who feel like they're on the fringes a lot while in every practical sense leaving everyone else unaffected. They're completely meaningless at the table. Their purpose is getting people to the table.
changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
When entire paragraphs are removed from the book I bought, then it is more than a suggestion on how to play the game. The book I bought is no longer the book I bought.
I recommend that you buy physical copies. The fact that the digital versions purchased on DnDBeyond are subject to change is not new information and is quite well known.
I agree. The point I've been trying to make repeatedly is that all the people saying "Just play the game you want, no one is stopping you, your game won't change" are being disingenuous when for people who only use D&D Beyond will have their books/games changed. Not everyone can afford physical copies.
The price for the physical books on Amazon are roughly the same price as the digital versions here. Regardless, no one should be complaining about the books changing on DnDBeyond when they KNOW that that can happen at any time when they make the purchase.
"This doesn't affect you" Product has changed after committing to spend money on it. Do you people hear yourselves?
I can read my own words back to me just fine. How is this change affecting you? What impact does it actually have on you? And did you even read the exact words now changed before committing to spend money?
"This doesn't affect you" Product has changed after committing to spend money on it. Do you people hear yourselves?
I can read my own words back to me just fine. How is this change affecting you? What impact does it actually have on you? And did you even read the exact words now changed before committing to spend money?
I literally just explained how it impacts me. There doesn't need to be any other reason. And no, I didn't read the errata that came out the other day when I purchased the books years ago. That makes no sense.
Regardless, no one should be complaining about the books changing on DnDBeyond when they KNOW that that can happen at any time when they make the purchase.
Will happen. Not even can happen, will happen. Has happened, is happening, will continue to happen. Because it must happen - it's part of DDB's licence with WotC.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"This doesn't affect you" Product has changed after committing to spend money on it. Do you people hear yourselves?
I can read my own words back to me just fine. How is this change affecting you? What impact does it actually have on you? And did you even read the exact words now changed before committing to spend money?
I literally just explained how it impacts me. There doesn't need to be any other reason. And no, I didn't read the errata that came out the other day when I purchased the books years ago. That makes no sense.
"Words in a book changed" doesn't tell me the impact. It just tells me something changed. Might even have been for the better. And I didn't ask if you read the errata before they were published; I asked if you'd read the actual words in the actual book as they originally were, before deciding to buy the book.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Would you prefer that Wizards do nothing and leave those who are currently unwelcome at the table out in the cold?
These changes aren't being made on a lark. The D&D brand is critically important to Wizards of the Coast, they wouldn't make these decisions lightly or out of a flash-in-the-pan fad to appease the Twiterati outrage jockeys. They're doing this because they have reason to do so. Assuming there's a reason for it...what would you suggest, instead?
How about allowing us to roll back to previous versions. When you load any particular page from any particular book, if that page has errata, the user can click a link to see the previous version. Then everyone wins. Why is that so hard?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
In what universe does it make sense to change an entire game system for EVERYONE for a TINY minority of people who are upset by words. Every time they change the game to accommodate this small group of people, the orcs in my games get stupider and stupider.
The game is not being changed to accommodate a small group. Most people are indifferent on the matter and, while it is true that only some have clamoured for the changes, those who will stop doing business with WoTC are, in fact, the minority; otherwise WoTC is failing its shareholders miserably. I’m certain the powers that be at WoTC came to this conclusion themselves only after thorough market research. It is their business, their livelihood after all. You are among the disenfranchised minority now. It is understandable this upsets you but WoTC knows exactly what it’s doing: appealing to progressive, new, young customers who will buy their products for way more years to come than cranky old farts in the twilight of their lives. Sorry, not sorry.
Would you prefer that Wizards do nothing and leave those who are currently unwelcome at the table out in the cold?
These changes aren't being made on a lark. The D&D brand is critically important to Wizards of the Coast, they wouldn't make these decisions lightly or out of a flash-in-the-pan fad to appease the Twiterati outrage jockeys. They're doing this because they have reason to do so. Assuming there's a reason for it...what would you suggest, instead?
How about allowing us to roll back to previous versions. When you load any particular page from any particular book, if that page has errata, the user can click a link to see the previous version. Then everyone wins. Why is that so hard?
Other than the significant programming overhead involved in rejiggering their entire compendium? That's not a small ask, and it opens them up to losing their license from Wizards. Putting significant development budget into a move that stands a reasonable chance of ruining your business feels very much not winning to me. They would have to get buy-in from Wizards allowing them to do so, and given that Wizards does not allow book printers to continue printing older versions of hardback documents simply because the printer doesn't agree with their errata, I doubt they'd be willing to let the digital ecosystem do so.
Wizards has a vested interest in the books not telling people "your game idea/character concept is fundamentally evil". That's why they're changing this text. They're not going to give their digital controlled-document partner permission to overrule their changes, or they wouldn't have been making the changes in the first place, ne?
Regardless, no one should be complaining about the books changing on DnDBeyond when they KNOW that that can happen at any time when they make the purchase.
Will happen. Not even can happen, will happen. Has happened, is happening, will continue to happen. Because it must happen - it's part of DDB's licence with WotC.
You are 100% correct.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
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When the change doesn't harm anyone else.
Anyone who cries because a business is trying to appeal to 100% of the market rather than 90% with no harm to anyone else needs to get a better perspective on it. I mean, it's all just words, right?
I query why your orcs' intelligence are affected by the changes. Play them as evil masterminds, if you wish. Personally, viewing them as.complex and multidimensional creatures makes them more interesting, and therefore more worthy of investing my effort into making them multidimensional. That tends to make them more intelligent by default.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The changes they made were pretty much saying "by the way, you can use other ideas if you want" no actual changes occured to the lore, only suggestions that you can change the lore if you want.
These changes only affect if you want you tp, whether or not you bought your books here.
My homebrew content: Monsters, subclasses, Magic items, Feats, spells, races, backgrounds
So tired of this topic.
No one is saying orcs can't be bad in your world. No one is saying you need to run a setting any differently than before. Let's call this a Type A game.
All this does is introduce the option to run things differently. In this world, some orcs are good. You had this option before. It's just presented a bit more directly. Let's call this a Type B game.
All this does is present a Type B game as an option on equal footing with a Type A game. That is literally all it does. For people that want a Type B game, this is huge. For people that want a Type A game, nothing has changed. You still have your damn cookie. Quit complaining that someone else has a cookie now too and just eat your cookie.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
What does "woke" mean to you? I looked it up and Google said, "alert to injustice in society, especially racism."
But you use the term in a negative way. How is being alert to injustice a negative thing? Do you feel that making the game inclusive to everyone takes away from your enjoyment of the game? Or is running previous evil races as not always evil too hard? Do you feel Wizards is forcing you to do something you are uncomfortable with?
When entire paragraphs are removed from the book I bought, then it is more than a suggestion on how to play the game. The book I bought is no longer the book I bought.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I recommend that you buy physical copies if you don't want them to change. The fact that the digital versions purchased on DnDBeyond are subject to change is not new information and is quite well known.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I agree. The point I've been trying to make repeatedly is that all the people saying "Just play the game you want, no one is stopping you, your game won't change" are being disingenuous when for people who only use D&D Beyond will have their books/games changed. Not everyone can afford physical copies.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If the temperature goes up one degree that's change, but I'm not likely to notice it. This is the same thing. I don't want to speak for you, maybe you feel differently, but the actual impact of this change on you is very likely entirely negligible and that makes the change itself negligible.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
What is your preferred solution, October?
Would you prefer that Wizards do nothing and leave those who are currently unwelcome at the table out in the cold?
These changes aren't being made on a lark. The D&D brand is critically important to Wizards of the Coast, they wouldn't make these decisions lightly or out of a flash-in-the-pan fad to appease the Twiterati outrage jockeys. They're doing this because they have reason to do so. Assuming there's a reason for it...what would you suggest, instead?
Please do not contact or message me.
With respect, I think they are welcome at the table regardless. This is about making them feel welcome as well. This may sound pedantic, sorry about that, but the difference matters. Not everybody playing D&D is perfect, but by and large this community is more open-minded and welcoming than most. Which is why the changes are a big step in the right direction: if people who are out in the cold never try to come in because they think the door is locked, that's a crying shame. The door is definitely not locked. It may look like it's closed though, and maybe these changes will put it ever so slightly ajar instead.
The salient point about these changes, to me anyway, is that they can (and hopefully do) affect those who feel like they're on the fringes a lot while in every practical sense leaving everyone else unaffected. They're completely meaningless at the table. Their purpose is getting people to the table.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"This doesn't affect you"
Product has changed after committing to spend money on it.
Do you people hear yourselves?
The price for the physical books on Amazon are roughly the same price as the digital versions here. Regardless, no one should be complaining about the books changing on DnDBeyond when they KNOW that that can happen at any time when they make the purchase.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I can read my own words back to me just fine. How is this change affecting you? What impact does it actually have on you? And did you even read the exact words now changed before committing to spend money?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I literally just explained how it impacts me. There doesn't need to be any other reason.
And no, I didn't read the errata that came out the other day when I purchased the books years ago. That makes no sense.
Will happen. Not even can happen, will happen. Has happened, is happening, will continue to happen. Because it must happen - it's part of DDB's licence with WotC.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"Words in a book changed" doesn't tell me the impact. It just tells me something changed. Might even have been for the better. And I didn't ask if you read the errata before they were published; I asked if you'd read the actual words in the actual book as they originally were, before deciding to buy the book.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
How about allowing us to roll back to previous versions. When you load any particular page from any particular book, if that page has errata, the user can click a link to see the previous version. Then everyone wins. Why is that so hard?
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
The game is not being changed to accommodate a small group. Most people are indifferent on the matter and, while it is true that only some have clamoured for the changes, those who will stop doing business with WoTC are, in fact, the minority; otherwise WoTC is failing its shareholders miserably. I’m certain the powers that be at WoTC came to this conclusion themselves only after thorough market research. It is their business, their livelihood after all. You are among the disenfranchised minority now. It is understandable this upsets you but WoTC knows exactly what it’s doing: appealing to progressive, new, young customers who will buy their products for way more years to come than cranky old farts in the twilight of their lives. Sorry, not sorry.
Other than the significant programming overhead involved in rejiggering their entire compendium? That's not a small ask, and it opens them up to losing their license from Wizards. Putting significant development budget into a move that stands a reasonable chance of ruining your business feels very much not winning to me. They would have to get buy-in from Wizards allowing them to do so, and given that Wizards does not allow book printers to continue printing older versions of hardback documents simply because the printer doesn't agree with their errata, I doubt they'd be willing to let the digital ecosystem do so.
Wizards has a vested interest in the books not telling people "your game idea/character concept is fundamentally evil". That's why they're changing this text. They're not going to give their digital controlled-document partner permission to overrule their changes, or they wouldn't have been making the changes in the first place, ne?
Please do not contact or message me.
You are 100% correct.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master