Burned out on buying the same content multiple times

Can’t say that I entirely agree that it is entitled behavior to expect well-fitting digital and physical content. I would expect a well-designed website to lean on different features to make a competitive product in the market, rather than relying on a strategy of leveraging baked-in dependencies. Anything else speaks to me of bad design and immature products.

Quote from Bodhitre >>

Can’t say that I entirely agree that it is entitled behavior to expect well-fitting digital and physical content. I would expect a well-designed website to lean on different features to make a competitive product in the market, rather than relying on a strategy of leveraging baked-in dependencies. Anything else speaks to me of bad design and immature products.

This website and VTT's are optional extras - that's the point I'm trying to make. When you buy a car, you don't expect the more powerful engine and lightweight panelling just because the car is built to take it - those are optional extras that cost more.

The books were printed to be books, for pencil and paper tabletop roleplaying games (tables as in wooden furniture items with flat surfaces on which to move real models on real maps and roll real dice with real people). They were not printed to be online tools with searchable features, filters, links, auto-rolling, hitpoint tracking, realtime lighting, and so on.

If I buy a book on how to use Solidworks, I do not expect Solidworks for free, even if this book was made to work with it. Even if it's written by the same company.

Yes, there is capitalism in there, but you have to appreciate that the books were written as books, and then retconned into the Dndbeyond format through hard work and ongoing support. If you expect them to just give that away, then they could simply stop making it instead.

I struggle to imagine why you'd buy books through both DDB and roll20 when Beyond20 exists. 

As for physical + DDB, now that they own DDB we're getting bundles that address this very issue. They can't go back in time to before the purchase.

Quote from ThorukDuckSlayer >>

I'll be frank here. Dungeons and Dragons is a tabletop pencil-and-paper roleplaying game. That's what you bought when you bought the book.

If you want more, you have to buy more. Expecting it because you bought the proper way to play it is textbook entitled behaviour.

 I like that thinking.

But I do like the idea of a digital mapping system. And yes WoTC can afford to either buy one or make one if they wanted.

And I do like the website here for its available content. I just wish it was cheaper for the digital copies. WoTC makes its highest percent of profit off of this site. Physical books cost far more than internet data.

I got tired of requiring multiple garages for my old edition books ages ago.  Digital is the way to go.  I’m still worried WotC may destroy DDB with their pricing.

Think of it as upgrading a phone that works perfectly fine

Quote from PrinceOgbek >>

Seriously thinking of just moving to Pathfinder 2e. There are things I'd miss, but this "buy it on dndbeyond, buy it on roll20, and (because each platform is sort of mini-monopoly), there is no buying used or at huge discounts" is just wearing me out.

 People have mentioned it, but let me say it explicitly here - the Chrome extension Beyond20 allows you to use your DDB content on roll20. It's all you need to make it work and it's free. Monsters, items, character sheets, whatever, you click on DDB and it pops up in roll20. I'd use it even if I had roll20 content because I prefer the DDB character sheet.

As for getting both physical and digital content with one purchase, I think the next edition will work that way. WotC bought DDB so that they could integrate everything into a web-based platform, but they can't change their whole business model overnight. The changeover next year seems like a realistic timeframe to nail down exactly how they want to distribute content. I'm expecting digital access as a small add-on to a physical book purchase and a cheaper digital-only option. But the logistics of that take time to work out.

To be honest, the fact that any publisher charges the same for a digital copy as a physical one is tantamount to robbery. The profit margins on digital material is wildly greater than a physical book (no warehouse storage, no printing costs, no shipping it to suppliers, etc). Digital books ought to be half the price (at least) of physical media.

Quote from Portential >>

It's pretty easy to build a character on paper without using the character builder.  Just print out the sheet and fill it in, problem solved.

You're not wrong, people played TTRPG for decade prior to online or computer aided character builders, and yet people do want character builders that do a lot of the work (and to some degree double check their math and build calculations) for them, for this and for other games.

And let's remember this is a thread started by a poster who thinks the possession or maybe only purchase of the hard copy book, entitles them access to that tool.  I'm pretty sure they're aware the paper form to fill in exists.  Of course, there are probably not an insignificant number of players who find DDB essential to their game playing because they don't want to fill out paper forms.

Quote from kayakingpoodle >>

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

Quote from Portential >>

It's pretty easy to build a character on paper without using the character builder.  Just print out the sheet and fill it in, problem solved.

 

You're not wrong, people played TTRPG for decade prior to online or computer aided character builders, and yet people do want character builders that do a lot of the work (and to some degree double check their math and build calculations) for them, for this and for other games.

And let's remember this is a thread started by a poster who thinks the possession or maybe only purchase of the hard copy book, entitles them access to that tool.  I'm pretty sure they're aware the paper form to fill in exists.  Of course, there are probably not an insignificant number of players who find DDB essential to their game playing because they don't want to fill out paper forms.

 DDB is not essential, but I do enjoy the convenience it provides, especially when it comes to new players who are the largest part of my current gaming tables.

Maybe it is more essential than I give credit.

Oh, I don't believe it's essential either.  But "there are probably not an insignificant number of players" who do.  One can say DDB is not essential to D&D and some D&D players find DDB essential a consistent statement.

Quote from PrinceOgbek >>

Seriously thinking of just moving to Pathfinder 2e. There are things I'd miss, but this "buy it on dndbeyond, buy it on roll20, and (because each platform is sort of mini-monopoly), there is no buying used or at huge discounts" is just wearing me out.

I don't mind paying once at full price, but once is it. The dndbeyond license needs to be designed so that other systems can use that content.

I don't expect Wizards to do this. Wizards showed earlier this year how rapacious they are. I'm expecting I'll need to just abandon the platform, even though I like the ddbeyond character sheet implementation. (Mostly. It has some bugs, but they are comparatively small.) And I'm definitely not interested in getting trapping in a WotC walled garden...

Really the only thing you have to buy from PF2 is the Adventure Paths or the Lost Omens if you want a setting. The rules are free and legal in the Archives of Nethys.

And that of buying the same content several times is the pain of our days. For example, I play a lot online, so I have to buy things twice.

The solution could be the new WotC VTT, if it really is possible to transfer the content purchased on DnDBeyond at no cost. The problem is that what I've seen of the VTT I don't like very much, and I prefer the 2D style of other platforms. But that is a matter of taste.

Quote from SirWaltorMelon >>

To be honest, the fact that any publisher charges the same for a digital copy as a physical one is tantamount to robbery. The profit margins on digital material is wildly greater than a physical book (no warehouse storage, no printing costs, no shipping it to suppliers, etc). Digital books ought to be half the price (at least) of physical media.

I can understand someone not wanting to buy the physical book and it on D&D Beyond as well, but honestly, the above quote is laughably absurd! Either you have no idea what D&D Beyond actually offers or you have no idea what effort goes into programming and data entry for a site like this (or both)!

"Robbery" LOL!!

Quote from KenMarable >>

Quote from SirWaltorMelon >>

To be honest, the fact that any publisher charges the same for a digital copy as a physical one is tantamount to robbery. The profit margins on digital material is wildly greater than a physical book (no warehouse storage, no printing costs, no shipping it to suppliers, etc). Digital books ought to be half the price (at least) of physical media.

I can understand someone not wanting to buy the physical book and it on D&D Beyond as well, but honestly, the above quote is laughably absurd! Either you have no idea what D&D Beyond actually offers or you have no idea what effort goes into programming and data entry for a site like this (or both)!

"Robbery" LOL!!

 Also, the digital content on DDB is half the price of the dead tree format.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

 Also, the digital content on DDB is half the price of the dead tree format.

Half the MSRP of the in print version, "but Amazon" is most folks' index for prices.  Not saying that validates the complaint, but I can see where the "they're the same price" argument comes from.

If someone's complaining about the price of a digital book because they were able to find a copy of the dead tree version for under MSRP online, I'd say that falls heavily under first world problems.

I think basically any complaint about the price of a hobby falls under First World Problems.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

If someone's complaining about the price of a digital book because they were able to find a copy of the dead tree version for under MSRP online, I'd say that falls heavily under first world problems.

That's another way of saying "That doesn't validate the complaint; but I can see where the "they're the same price" argument comes from."  There's not a lot of awareness, maybe even consciousness, in contemporary so-called post industrial consumption, but that's sort of going meta to the topic.  

I imagine what DDB entitlements may accompany a physical purchase may change in post refreshed/revised core books. I don't see DDB or the VTT capstone on top of DDB being essential to future play (despite fears expressed on a number of channels including this forum), but facilitating greater integration is probably a goal of the various roll outs we'll be seeing post 2024.  I was frankly surprised to see the bundled roll out for 5e books we've seen to date, and I imagine those will be further refined.

Quote from The_Ace_of_Rogues >>

I think basically any complaint about the price of a hobby falls under First World Problems.

 I mean, yes, but there are some legitimate complaints about corporate greed making things too expensive, like online games that push microtransactions toward kids and people with ADHD- obviously not something happening here but just using it as an example.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

If someone's complaining about the price of a digital book because they were able to find a copy of the dead tree version for under MSRP online, I'd say that falls heavily under first world problems.

 Eh...MSRP means next to nothing. While I can see the appeal of a specific, objective (as in, you can't just say "but here it costs..." because there is something unique about the MSRP) and easily obtainable price, it's actually quite arbitrary, at least for the uses you want to use it here. A chain here sells sporty goods, always 50% off. Massive adverts all over their stores. What they are less obvious about is that they're their own supplier (technically different, but owned by the same guy, never supplies anyone other than this chain, only that supplier supplies this chain, in practice it's one company). They slap some absurdly high MSRP, cut it down to a price level that's slightly lower than their competition, and call it massive discount. In reality, the quality is actually lower than their competition and so whether you're even getting value for money is dubious...but it makes them look really cheap when their trainers are £29.99 down from £69.99. WotC isn't quite so ambitious (or immoral, in my view), similar processes are occuring. The price I pay for most products is usually equal to or slightly higher than the MSRP (depending on what kind of shop I'm going to), I've yet to even see a 5e product that is being sold at MSRP. Even my FLGS, which can't compete with Amazon a lot of the time, sells them for substantially less. WotC overestimates the market value of their books, most likely to promote higher prices.

DDB costs me £26.50 for most books. Physical books cost me £25-£35 depending on the book (there is a lot more variation in physical books than DDB, for whatever reason). I agree that DDB offers a lot more than mere PDFs and you can't maker that straight comparison. But still, the prices you have to compare are the prices people can expect to pay for a book, not pie-in-the-sky MSRP.

MSRP is the general default.  I don't know a single retailer within a 100 mile radius of where I live that sells new D&D books below MSRP.  Most websites that sell below MSRP charge for shipping, which these days means that the total is probably more than MSRP.  If you have some specific place that you can buy from that charges below MSRP and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg for shipping, that's great but it's not something that's readily available to everyone. And if someone's complaining that they got the physical book for far enough below MSRP that they're paying just as much for the DDB version... It must be nice living in a world where things are so great that that's their idea of a problem.