I can assure you that I am more than familiar with the homebrewer. I practically live in that thing. It’s what I do. When folks can’t figure out how to make it do what they want and post their question in the forum, 9 times out of 10 I’m the one who explains it to them. At this point some people don’t even post in the forum, they just PM me about it because they know I’ll know, or that I’ll know it’s currently impossible. Yeah, you can get the rough stuff done in 20 minutes, but all the little details that many people aren’t even aware of can take time.
I can vouch for IamSposta's expertise. Several times when I've had some homebrew questions on this forum I find an answer from my homebrewing hero :)
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"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."
Please could consideration be given about making available all the old UA on D&D Beyond, but potentially only to those who buy the relevant book where it was included (or not included, as the case may be)? A lot of people really enjoy playing with them and it is such a faff having to remake everything with the homebrew tools. Could it not be considered bonus content for those that buy the additional books? Or even a separate 'UA compendium' purchase?
My daughter currently has a Psionic Soul character that is low level... rather than re-create all the deprecated spells and feats as homebrew items, that she may not even use, I think I will create a lvl 20 Psionic Soul that has selected all the options going away so I can reference and recreate as needed.
Should be much quicker than homebrewing everything...
btw, would have been nice for WoTC to over lap the deprecation and Tasha's CoE by a week or two so we could have more visibility to the details of the new material.
I'd possibly just convert to the new characters and options and abandon the old but without visibility to compare I am force to prepare for the option of keeping the old content even if I end up abandoning it.
Please could consideration be given about making available all the old UA on D&D Beyond, but potentially only to those who buy the relevant book where it was included (or not included, as the case may be)? A lot of people really enjoy playing with them and it is such a faff having to remake everything with the homebrew tools. Could it not be considered bonus content for those that buy the additional books? Or even a separate 'UA compendium' purchase?
That is up to WotC, and DDB has absolutely no say in the decision whatsoever.
One thing that is in DDB's power to do, when selecting "Playtest Content" in the Character Builder, add some bright red font disclaimer stating something along the lines of "This is WoTC content that is being tested and can and will be removed from D&D Beyond at some time decided by WoTC."
Then again after selecting a race or class that originates from the playtest content, pop up a screen saying "By selecting 'Playtest Content' content you will lose the ability to progress this character beyond the point in time that WoTC requires D&D Beyond to remove such content." with an OK checkbox to continue.
We would still be in the same situation but I feel that some users did not fully understand what they were getting into by selecting this content and some users do not understand that it is beyond (no pun intended) DDB's control.
One thing that is in DDB's power to do, when selecting "Playtest Content" in the Character Builder, add some bright red font disclaimer stating something along the lines of "This is WoTC content that is being tested and can and will be removed from D&D Beyond at some time decided by WoTC."
Then again after selecting a race or class that originates from the playtest content, pop up a screen saying "By selecting 'Playtest Content' content you will lose the ability to progress this character beyond the point in time that WoTC requires D&D Beyond to remove such content." with an OK checkbox to continue.
We would still be in the same situation but I feel that some users did not fully understand what they were getting into by selecting this content and some users do not understand that it is beyond (no pun intended) DDB's control.
Clarity is key!
You will lose nothing when this content is archived. You will be able to continue using that content, and will still be able to level up your characters that have UA subclasses. The only thing that will change is than nobody will be able to add the archived content to their characters moving forward. So, as long as you do not accidentally remove your archived subclass, the only change you will notice is the word “Archived” will now appear in the sheet next to your subclass.
One thing that is in DDB's power to do, when selecting "Playtest Content" in the Character Builder, add some bright red font disclaimer stating something along the lines of "This is WoTC content that is being tested and can and will be removed from D&D Beyond at some time decided by WoTC."
Then again after selecting a race or class that originates from the playtest content, pop up a screen saying "By selecting 'Playtest Content' content you will lose the ability to progress this character beyond the point in time that WoTC requires D&D Beyond to remove such content." with an OK checkbox to continue.
We would still be in the same situation but I feel that some users did not fully understand what they were getting into by selecting this content and some users do not understand that it is beyond (no pun intended) DDB's control.
Clarity is key!
Do you mean like this disclaimer that is written under every UA subclass on the builder?
"THIS IS UNOFFICIAL MATERIAL
The material here is presented for playtesting and to spark your imagination. These game mechanics are in draft form, usable in your campaign but not refined by full game design and editing. They aren’t officially part of the game and aren’t permitted in D&D Adventurers League events.
If this material is made official, it will be refined based on your feedback, and then it will appear in a D&D product that you can unlock on DDB.
If this material is not made official, it will be removed from DDB following the playtest period and you will need to replace it with another option."
I’m very disappointed in this. I know it’s not DnD Beyond’s fault and is most likely ordered at higher levels, but it does feel very much like “Oh here are these cool things to play with that enhance the experience of building a charater in DnD Beyond! Okay, now you can’t play with them anymore unless you spend hours inputting them yourself or spend money on our new book!”
Taking away free resources to push a new book feels bad, man.
You may are a much more active forum member than I so maybe I misinterpreted OboeLauren post.
...Archived spells may no longer appear in spell lists for classes that can change their spells out, so we suggest you use the homebrew tools to re-create your own version and make sure to keep it in your private collection if you would like access to those spells.
Archived content will no longer be available for NEW characters, or if you remove the archived content from an existing character it cannot be added back again.
Using a 3rd level Psionic Soul as an example, I took this as if the 3rd level Psionic Soul had the spell Mind Thrust today, if when they level up to level 4 and replace Mind Thrust with another spell Mind Thrust would then not be selectable to add back in when they hit level 5.
Likewise, when they reach level 7 and can add their first level 4 spell, Intellect Fortress would not be available to add after the archiving.
If I misinterpreted this I apologize and am unsure why OboeLauren was commenting on recreating spells as private home-brew. I'll re-read later to try and understand better.
One thing that is in DDB's power to do, when selecting "Playtest Content" in the Character Builder, add some bright red font disclaimer stating something along the lines of "This is WoTC content that is being tested and can and will be removed from D&D Beyond at some time decided by WoTC."
Then again after selecting a race or class that originates from the playtest content, pop up a screen saying "By selecting 'Playtest Content' content you will lose the ability to progress this character beyond the point in time that WoTC requires D&D Beyond to remove such content." with an OK checkbox to continue.
We would still be in the same situation but I feel that some users did not fully understand what they were getting into by selecting this content and some users do not understand that it is beyond (no pun intended) DDB's control.
Clarity is key!
Do you mean like this disclaimer that is written under every UA subclass on the builder?
"THIS IS UNOFFICIAL MATERIAL
The material here is presented for playtesting....
I know that disclaimer is there in the Unearthed Arcana documents but in the character builder this is what I see:
Afte selecting "Standard Builder" on page one of the Character Builder I see these choices with no disclaimers around Playtest Content
Sources
Allow or restrict sources to be used for this character. Homebrew Content Critical Role Content Playtest Content Magic: The Gathering Content Eberron Content Rick and Morty Content Noncore D&D Content
For a level 1 Sorceror, youy choose your sucblass on the Sorcerous Origin section on the final page of "2. Class". Here there is a drop down list of all subclasses available in the sources you selected without any indication of which source the subclass is derived from.Still no disclaimers.
I haven't used all class/subclass combo's to see if any disclaimers exist anywhere but I finished building a 1st level Sorceror while writing this and no disclaimers on any pages.
I know a lot of my players log into DDB and only use the tools. They don't read the forums and don't read the UA articles. They rely on me for keeping them up to date and answering questions. I don't think any of them would have seen the above disclaimer but again, I don't claim to be a DDB expert and would like to know if I am missing something in the way I am using the tool.
Taking away free resources to push a new book feels bad, man.
I get why you feel that way but I do not think that is either WoTC or DDB intentions.
It is really an artifact of trying to involve the community to get real player feedback on new ideas and the struggles of managing a single definition of content after that testing is done.
Often times original playtest material is not well balanced and there needs to be corrections. Anyone involved with the "Alpha" or "Beta" releases of a design will have to give up that material at some point or else you could be sitting at a table with three Paladins subclasses, for example, all playing by different rules. All the feedback from the playtests get compiled and do go into the new books because everyone wants it there. And ultimately if WoTC gave away any finalized new materials from the testing for free they wouldn't have any new content to justify new books and our beloved RPG would just go out of business.
Everyone is at a different place financially and I know it is a big struggle for many to pick and choose what books they can afford to add to their collection and WoTC and DDB supporting things like shareable source material in campaigns is one way that shows they recognize this and try to make it better while still trying to run a business and keep the lights on.
Sorry so long winded, been playing since 1984 and am passionate about it all and now that I am older and work in a company where I have input to similar kinds of decisions and the impacts they have, I now have a different view on it all.
You may are a much more active forum member than I so maybe I misinterpreted OboeLauren post.
...Archived spells may no longer appear in spell lists for classes that can change their spells out, so we suggest you use the homebrew tools to re-create your own version and make sure to keep it in your private collection if you would like access to those spells.
Archived content will no longer be available for NEW characters, or if you remove the archived content from an existing character it cannot be added back again.
Using a 3rd level Psionic Soul as an example, I took this as if the 3rd level Psionic Soul had the spell Mind Thrust today, if when they level up to level 4 and replace Mind Thrust with another spell Mind Thrust would then not be selectable to add back in when they hit level 5.
Likewise, when they reach level 7 and can add their first level 4 spell, Intellect Fortress would not be available to add after the archiving.
If I misinterpreted this I apologize and am unsure why OboeLauren was commenting on recreating spells as private home-brew. I'll re-read later to try and understand better.
Thanks, Bill
You are correct that if you take Mind Thrust off of your character that you would no longer be able to select it again. The easy solution, don’t unlearn Mind Thrust. As for Intellect Fortress, you are correct that you would not be able to learn that spell. But since your character does not currently know that spell, they are still not “loosing” anything.
Thanks so much IamSposta! I see now we are talking semantics. To me, my players are losing the ability to play the character by RAW (swapping some spells at level) and losing the feature and functionality of referencing and adding that content during leveling in the same way they could a week ago.
The way they are leaving the already made characters in your campaigns with the archived tag implied to me I could have those players continue playing them, with leveling, but I can not without homebrew or other workarounds outside DDB. I do see how you are defining loss as content being taken away that you already chosen. I have two players with a lot of foresight into their characters so for them this may be best worded as an opportunity loss.
I hope to level up my daughter in our next session so I am seeing this impact fairly soon.
I do know how to address it in a few different ways but some users will not be as creative in their problem solving and may not even be current in knowing it was being archived if they just use DDB as a tool during playing sessions once or twice a month.
OK, I did make a mistake earlier when trying to recreate this, I looked up Storm Sorcerer which is not original PHB material but it was official Sword Coast material not UA.
Sorcerer's do choose their subclass at level 1. It is one thing that makes them stand out. From a RP perspective they do not decide their subclass as a profession or specialty their subclasses further define their innate powers so they are there from day one.
Part of my stance on this is from spending a lot of time with my daughters character builder and sheet. I have it up in a tab now and I can walk through every one of the builder pages and do not see the big disclaimer you are posting. It does say (archived) in parenthesis in the sorcerous origins section where you select it. Maybe it was a miss on this content but there in other, I can post screen shots of all the pages if you would like to see.
OK, I did make a mistake earlier when trying to recreate this, I looked up Storm Sorcerer which is not original PHB material but it was official Sword Coast material not UA.
Sorcerer's do choose their subclass at level 1. It is one thing that makes them stand out. From a RP perspective they do not decide their subclass as a profession or specialty their subclasses further define their innate powers so they are there from day one.
Part of my stance on this is from spending a lot of time with my daughters character builder and sheet. I have it up in a tab now and I can walk through every one of the builder pages and do not see the big disclaimer you are posting. It does say (archived) in parenthesis in the sorcerous origins section where you select it. Maybe it was a miss on this content but there in other, I can post screen shots of all the pages if you would like to see.
As the content is no longer under the UA category, the disclaimer no longer shows. Previously the disclaimer that The_Glimpse posted would display when an UA subclass was selected in the builder.
Unfortunately we aren't able to keep the UA material live - as part of our agreements with Wizards of the Coast, Unearthed Arcana material is archived when it reaches the end of the playtest. We try to give as much notice as possible so users may prepare (hence this thread).
I can vouch for IamSposta's expertise. Several times when I've had some homebrew questions on this forum I find an answer from my homebrewing hero :)
"A river cuts through rock, not because of its power, but because of its persistence."
*blushes* Aww, shucks.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Please could consideration be given about making available all the old UA on D&D Beyond, but potentially only to those who buy the relevant book where it was included (or not included, as the case may be)? A lot of people really enjoy playing with them and it is such a faff having to remake everything with the homebrew tools. Could it not be considered bonus content for those that buy the additional books? Or even a separate 'UA compendium' purchase?
My daughter currently has a Psionic Soul character that is low level... rather than re-create all the deprecated spells and feats as homebrew items, that she may not even use, I think I will create a lvl 20 Psionic Soul that has selected all the options going away so I can reference and recreate as needed.
Should be much quicker than homebrewing everything...
btw, would have been nice for WoTC to over lap the deprecation and Tasha's CoE by a week or two so we could have more visibility to the details of the new material.
I'd possibly just convert to the new characters and options and abandon the old but without visibility to compare I am force to prepare for the option of keeping the old content even if I end up abandoning it.
That is up to WotC, and DDB has absolutely no say in the decision whatsoever.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
One thing that is in DDB's power to do, when selecting "Playtest Content" in the Character Builder, add some bright red font disclaimer stating something along the lines of "This is WoTC content that is being tested and can and will be removed from D&D Beyond at some time decided by WoTC."
Then again after selecting a race or class that originates from the playtest content, pop up a screen saying "By selecting 'Playtest Content' content you will lose the ability to progress this character beyond the point in time that WoTC requires D&D Beyond to remove such content." with an OK checkbox to continue.
We would still be in the same situation but I feel that some users did not fully understand what they were getting into by selecting this content and some users do not understand that it is beyond (no pun intended) DDB's control.
Clarity is key!
You will lose nothing when this content is archived. You will be able to continue using that content, and will still be able to level up your characters that have UA subclasses. The only thing that will change is than nobody will be able to add the archived content to their characters moving forward. So, as long as you do not accidentally remove your archived subclass, the only change you will notice is the word “Archived” will now appear in the sheet next to your subclass.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
Do you mean like this disclaimer that is written under every UA subclass on the builder?
"THIS IS UNOFFICIAL MATERIAL
The material here is presented for playtesting and to spark your imagination. These game mechanics are in draft form, usable in your campaign but not refined by full game design and editing. They aren’t officially part of the game and aren’t permitted in D&D Adventurers League events.
If this material is made official, it will be refined based on your feedback, and then it will appear in a D&D product that you can unlock on DDB.
If this material is not made official, it will be removed from DDB following the playtest period and you will need to replace it with another option."
I’m very disappointed in this. I know it’s not DnD Beyond’s fault and is most likely ordered at higher levels, but it does feel very much like “Oh here are these cool things to play with that enhance the experience of building a charater in DnD Beyond! Okay, now you can’t play with them anymore unless you spend hours inputting them yourself or spend money on our new book!”
Taking away free resources to push a new book feels bad, man.
I can understand the frustration, but play testing exists to see whether or not the material will make it to be published...
IamSpota,
You may are a much more active forum member than I so maybe I misinterpreted OboeLauren post.
Using a 3rd level Psionic Soul as an example, I took this as if the 3rd level Psionic Soul had the spell Mind Thrust today, if when they level up to level 4 and replace Mind Thrust with another spell Mind Thrust would then not be selectable to add back in when they hit level 5.
Likewise, when they reach level 7 and can add their first level 4 spell, Intellect Fortress would not be available to add after the archiving.
If I misinterpreted this I apologize and am unsure why OboeLauren was commenting on recreating spells as private home-brew. I'll re-read later to try and understand better.
Thanks,
Bill
I know that disclaimer is there in the Unearthed Arcana documents but in the character builder this is what I see:
Afte selecting "Standard Builder" on page one of the Character Builder I see these choices with no disclaimers around Playtest Content
For a level 1 Sorceror, youy choose your sucblass on the Sorcerous Origin section on the final page of "2. Class". Here there is a drop down list of all subclasses available in the sources you selected without any indication of which source the subclass is derived from.Still no disclaimers.
I haven't used all class/subclass combo's to see if any disclaimers exist anywhere but I finished building a 1st level Sorceror while writing this and no disclaimers on any pages.
I know a lot of my players log into DDB and only use the tools. They don't read the forums and don't read the UA articles. They rely on me for keeping them up to date and answering questions. I don't think any of them would have seen the above disclaimer but again, I don't claim to be a DDB expert and would like to know if I am missing something in the way I am using the tool.
Thanks,
Bill
I get why you feel that way but I do not think that is either WoTC or DDB intentions.
It is really an artifact of trying to involve the community to get real player feedback on new ideas and the struggles of managing a single definition of content after that testing is done.
Often times original playtest material is not well balanced and there needs to be corrections. Anyone involved with the "Alpha" or "Beta" releases of a design will have to give up that material at some point or else you could be sitting at a table with three Paladins subclasses, for example, all playing by different rules. All the feedback from the playtests get compiled and do go into the new books because everyone wants it there. And ultimately if WoTC gave away any finalized new materials from the testing for free they wouldn't have any new content to justify new books and our beloved RPG would just go out of business.
Everyone is at a different place financially and I know it is a big struggle for many to pick and choose what books they can afford to add to their collection and WoTC and DDB supporting things like shareable source material in campaigns is one way that shows they recognize this and try to make it better while still trying to run a business and keep the lights on.
Sorry so long winded, been playing since 1984 and am passionate about it all and now that I am older and work in a company where I have input to similar kinds of decisions and the impacts they have, I now have a different view on it all.
You are correct that if you take Mind Thrust off of your character that you would no longer be able to select it again. The easy solution, don’t unlearn Mind Thrust. As for Intellect Fortress, you are correct that you would not be able to learn that spell. But since your character does not currently know that spell, they are still not “loosing” anything.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
A 1st level Sorcerer wouldn't have this today because all UA but Drakewarden and Ascending Dragon.
When you hit 2nd or 3rd level, depending on Class to pick your subclass, all playtest content is plainly labled UA-
Such as UA-Way of the Ascending Dragon (UA)
Currently, the only two available subclasses for UA because of the archive today, is the above for Monk and the Drakewarden for Ranger.
And as you can see when a UA is selected in the UA it shows the warning I mentioned above.
Thanks so much IamSposta! I see now we are talking semantics. To me, my players are losing the ability to play the character by RAW (swapping some spells at level) and losing the feature and functionality of referencing and adding that content during leveling in the same way they could a week ago.
The way they are leaving the already made characters in your campaigns with the archived tag implied to me I could have those players continue playing them, with leveling, but I can not without homebrew or other workarounds outside DDB. I do see how you are defining loss as content being taken away that you already chosen. I have two players with a lot of foresight into their characters so for them this may be best worded as an opportunity loss.
I hope to level up my daughter in our next session so I am seeing this impact fairly soon.
I do know how to address it in a few different ways but some users will not be as creative in their problem solving and may not even be current in knowing it was being archived if they just use DDB as a tool during playing sessions once or twice a month.
Appreciate your viewpoints!
It’s just two spells to homebrew. Should take less than 20 minutes total. If you need help just ask.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
The_Glimpse,
OK, I did make a mistake earlier when trying to recreate this, I looked up Storm Sorcerer which is not original PHB material but it was official Sword Coast material not UA.
Sorcerer's do choose their subclass at level 1. It is one thing that makes them stand out. From a RP perspective they do not decide their subclass as a profession or specialty their subclasses further define their innate powers so they are there from day one.
Part of my stance on this is from spending a lot of time with my daughters character builder and sheet. I have it up in a tab now and I can walk through every one of the builder pages and do not see the big disclaimer you are posting. It does say (archived) in parenthesis in the sorcerous origins section where you select it. Maybe it was a miss on this content but there in other, I can post screen shots of all the pages if you would like to see.
As the content is no longer under the UA category, the disclaimer no longer shows. Previously the disclaimer that The_Glimpse posted would display when an UA subclass was selected in the builder.
Unfortunately we aren't able to keep the UA material live - as part of our agreements with Wizards of the Coast, Unearthed Arcana material is archived when it reaches the end of the playtest. We try to give as much notice as possible so users may prepare (hence this thread).
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