I'll admit to some bias in regards to Blood Hunters, as I did have some plans to try one out in the arena and see how it stacked up after the update this year. That said, for any other CR content, racial or otherwise, I'd lean with allowing test cases with some forewarning given to be prepared to change it later if deemed too broken for it.
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When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
Side note about Amaruve: Also mute. =P Well mostly, when I played Amaruve in campaigns he, as a rule, would never string more than three words together.
Regarding Echo Knights and the wizard subclass, aren't those part of Explorer's Guide book? I was under the impression that the Explorer's Guide was a official rule book addition like Xanathar's Guide or Tome of Foes or Volo. I don't know because I don't have that book (not in this site or IRL). I also know nothing about the subclasses and items in it because of no book.
Regarding Echo Knights and the wizard subclass, aren't those part of Explorer's Guide book? I was under the impression that the Explorer's Guide was a official rule book addition like Xanathar's Guide or Tome of Foes or Volo. I don't know because I don't have that book (not in this site or IRL). I also know nothing about the subclasses and items in it because of no book.
You bring up a good point, and indeed they are in the book, unlike Bloodhunter and Gunslinger. Haven't gotten a chance to read it all up, but either way, good point.
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When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
I've overhauled the OP of this thread with clearer instructions for new Coliseum DMs though I imagine most of those details will be clear already for experienced contestants. It may help with some of the finer points if needed.
If one DM allows an item or mechanic which another does not, for instance the use of find familiar or a druid's use of metal armor. Does this cause too much confusion and difficulty for the players or even DMs? Or should we allow such inconsistencies to increase player versatility?
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
I think having the same rules for all DMs (to the extent that it's possible, which it may not always be) is a good idea because it makes it easier for players to know what to expect. Also it makes it look like we actually know what's going on.
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Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1) DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
I think having the same rules for all DMs (to the extent that it's possible, which it may not always be) is a good idea because it makes it easier for players to know what to expect. Also it makes it look like we actually know what's going on.
Z'is right here.
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When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
I'd like to have a clear line rather than exceptions. Like if find familiar is ok why not find steed, and why not find greater steed?
If we make exceptions there will be requests for additional exceptions. Hounds of Ill Omen, Beast Masters, etc. What makes one creature ok and another not? It'd be best to identify that line early on.
Abilities like Xeno's turret, Robbit's echo, Flaming Sphere, and Spiritual Weapon, do not act without their player, they do not grant their player any additional actions in a round. But an ability like Animate Object can grant the player many additional actions. At higher levels such abilities become more powerful.
I propose if Find Familiar is permitted any ability that is granted at first level be available.
This would allow Beast Masters but not Hounds of Ill Omen
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
I think the proposal to allow summons-type abilities available at 1st level is a good one. However, both the Eldritch Cannon and Ranger's Companion cannot be accessed until 3rd level when their respective classes' subclass is chosen. Since characters in the Revived Coliseum start at third level anyways, maybe it makes sense to increase the level-limit for summons to 3rd?
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Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1) DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
Another thing we need to decide on is who gets tokens when. Some characters already got one from advancing from 3rd to 4th on a loss. Should it be every time time a character advances a level on a loss? Or should it only be advancing to an even level (even instead of odd due to precedent set by 3rd to 4th, but could be odd instead)?
If it's every level, then characters are a lot more equal in magic item distribution. Characters who advance by winning have a chance of getting the magic item they want (and will at least get something they can use), but often magic items will be traded in anyways. When items are traded, they are functionally identical to a token of the same rarity (by design).
If it's every second level, it means there are greater rewards for winning and characters who win more often will, in general, have a few more magic items than those who don't. This makes it (arguably) more exciting to win, though it could also end up with characters who keep losing in a death spiral where they can never catch up. One downside of this method is that a character who keeps winning at even levels and losing at odd levels gets fewer rewards than someone who does it the other way round. That's not too likely to happen more than once or twice, though.
I don't have too much of a preference between these two options. I might lean slightly towards the second one, since it rewards winning more. Also that's how the old Coliseum did it and nothing seemed to go horribly wrong then.
Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1) DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
About the summoning thing, maybe allow summons that are part of Class Features regardless of level? Like Find Steed, Animate Object etc. are all spells but the Artificer Cannons and Ranger Companions are class features. So maybe just restricting summoning spells to first level spells would solve the issue? That way Find Steed, Animate Object, Warlocks summoning ******* Pit Fiends would not be allowed but Artificer Cannons and Ranger Companions would still be allowed.
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I'll admit to some bias in regards to Blood Hunters, as I did have some plans to try one out in the arena and see how it stacked up after the update this year. That said, for any other CR content, racial or otherwise, I'd lean with allowing test cases with some forewarning given to be prepared to change it later if deemed too broken for it.
When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
Side note about Amaruve: Also mute. =P Well mostly, when I played Amaruve in campaigns he, as a rule, would never string more than three words together.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/play-by-post/23445-the-next-leap?comment=12
That iteration of Amaruve was human, though.
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Regarding Echo Knights and the wizard subclass, aren't those part of Explorer's Guide book? I was under the impression that the Explorer's Guide was a official rule book addition like Xanathar's Guide or Tome of Foes or Volo. I don't know because I don't have that book (not in this site or IRL). I also know nothing about the subclasses and items in it because of no book.
You bring up a good point, and indeed they are in the book, unlike Bloodhunter and Gunslinger. Haven't gotten a chance to read it all up, but either way, good point.
When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
I've overhauled the OP of this thread with clearer instructions for new Coliseum DMs though I imagine most of those details will be clear already for experienced contestants. It may help with some of the finer points if needed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/play-by-post/41173-the-aftermath-coliseum-of-conquest
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Restrictions by DM:
If one DM allows an item or mechanic which another does not, for instance the use of find familiar or a druid's use of metal armor. Does this cause too much confusion and difficulty for the players or even DMs? Or should we allow such inconsistencies to increase player versatility?
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I'd prefer standardization.
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
I think having the same rules for all DMs (to the extent that it's possible, which it may not always be) is a good idea because it makes it easier for players to know what to expect. Also it makes it look like we actually know what's going on.
Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1)
DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
Z'is right here.
When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
Are we all onboard for no summons (anything defined as a creature) and no metal on druids then?
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Wellllllll, yeah. I'll take back the exemption made for familiars, not that anyone has really used one in current matches I've run so far.
When you realize you're doing too much: Signature.
I’d say leave familiars in, and maybe allow Shadow Magic’s hound as well.
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
I'd like to have a clear line rather than exceptions. Like if find familiar is ok why not find steed, and why not find greater steed?
If we make exceptions there will be requests for additional exceptions. Hounds of Ill Omen, Beast Masters, etc. What makes one creature ok and another not? It'd be best to identify that line early on.
Extended Signature
Abilities like Xeno's turret, Robbit's echo, Flaming Sphere, and Spiritual Weapon, do not act without their player, they do not grant their player any additional actions in a round. But an ability like Animate Object can grant the player many additional actions. At higher levels such abilities become more powerful.
I propose if Find Familiar is permitted any ability that is granted at first level be available.
This would allow Beast Masters but not Hounds of Ill Omen
Extended Signature
But no find steed?
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
Yeah F find steed, trouble waiting to happen. =P
Extended Signature
I think the proposal to allow summons-type abilities available at 1st level is a good one.
However, both the Eldritch Cannon and Ranger's Companion cannot be accessed until 3rd level when their respective classes' subclass is chosen. Since characters in the Revived Coliseum start at third level anyways, maybe it makes sense to increase the level-limit for summons to 3rd?
Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1)
DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
Another thing we need to decide on is who gets tokens when.
Some characters already got one from advancing from 3rd to 4th on a loss. Should it be every time time a character advances a level on a loss? Or should it only be advancing to an even level (even instead of odd due to precedent set by 3rd to 4th, but could be odd instead)?
If it's every level, then characters are a lot more equal in magic item distribution. Characters who advance by winning have a chance of getting the magic item they want (and will at least get something they can use), but often magic items will be traded in anyways. When items are traded, they are functionally identical to a token of the same rarity (by design).
If it's every second level, it means there are greater rewards for winning and characters who win more often will, in general, have a few more magic items than those who don't. This makes it (arguably) more exciting to win, though it could also end up with characters who keep losing in a death spiral where they can never catch up. One downside of this method is that a character who keeps winning at even levels and losing at odd levels gets fewer rewards than someone who does it the other way round. That's not too likely to happen more than once or twice, though.
I don't have too much of a preference between these two options. I might lean slightly towards the second one, since it rewards winning more. Also that's how the old Coliseum did it and nothing seemed to go horribly wrong then.
Horatio Hirschfeld - Squire imbued with fae powers, in the Coliseum of Conquest (W2/L1)
DM for Reavers of Harkenwold, and sometimes The Fighting Grounds of the Coliseum
This would restrict find steed as well, unless a class other than Paladin learns it, so that would work. Are there any 2nd level druid summon spells?
I don't see any other than the UA one, but I could have missed some. I'm assuming no other class would learn anything at lower levels either.
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
About the summoning thing, maybe allow summons that are part of Class Features regardless of level? Like Find Steed, Animate Object etc. are all spells but the Artificer Cannons and Ranger Companions are class features. So maybe just restricting summoning spells to first level spells would solve the issue? That way Find Steed, Animate Object, Warlocks summoning ******* Pit Fiends would not be allowed but Artificer Cannons and Ranger Companions would still be allowed.