So I never realized till recently, but if you're ever fighting an Archdruid you can't counterspell most of their spells. Looking at that Capstone ability not only do they get unlimited uses of their wildshape, but none of their spells require any kind of components unless it's a material component with a cost. I already knew that for Moon Druids, the Capstone for their class is absolutely beastly. It wasn't until I recently started taking a close look at all the capstone abilities for all the classes that I realized that Druids probably have the best Capstone ability.
Others come close to being really good, like the Clerics instant god help is great, but has a major cool down and does require the benevolence of the DM. Barbarian is amazing for their class, but those are the only ones that I think come even close to the Druid Capstone.
No one, of any class requires anything except material components that have a cost. Arcane Focus and Component Pouch, picked at 1st level, covers that.
Druids are great, yes, but no, their capstone is not the best. It's pretty much balanced across the board.
But then again, how many campaigns have you played till level 20? And how many people have gone single class till 20?
In all of my time playing D&D since Basic: 4 In 5e: 2 Single Class: 1
I think you missed what it does. It doesn't require Verbal, Somatic or Material Components to cast a spell unless the material component has a cost. This means that there is no sign that they're casting a spell so none of their spells can be Counterspelled once they get to level Twenty.
Not sure why you even brought up playing till level 20. I was just stating that their have the best capstone ability.
And you're wrong, there is at least one terrible capstone ability and then a couple others that aren't that impressive.
I think you missed what it does. It doesn't require Verbal, Somatic or Material Components to cast a spell unless the material component has a cost. This means that there is no sign that they're casting a spell so none of their spells can be Counterspelled once they get to level Twenty.
Not sure why you even brought up playing till level 20. I was just stating that their have the best capstone ability.
And you're wrong, there is at least one terrible capstone ability and then a couple others that aren't that impressive.
Any spell can be counterspelled. It doesn't matter if it "looks like they are casting" or not. And you are wrong. If a spell has a verbal or somatic component, then the caster is doing or saying something that is physically visible as being someone casting, unless they have the correct Metamagic. Which is not a druid thing. Even if you don't have to pay the financial cost of a material component, spell-casting is very obvious. It does not cost the price of the material component. The Physical and Verbal signs still show of the Somatic and Verbal components.
Your very post brought up Capstones. You don't get those unless you are 20 in one single class.
Comparing capstone power levels seems pretty pointless to me. A fraction of a percent of campaigns get played at that level, and beyond that, unless you've really ham-fisted your build, you should have more than enough power to be a god-like being without needing to optimize your capstone. Especially on a full caster where your power scaling is closer to quadratic than linear.
If comparing the capstone power seems pointless then maybe you shouldn't have offered up an opinion seeing as that is exactly what this thread is about. I personally started this only to see if I happen to miss one of the capstones, or if someone believed there is a better one out there than the Druid Capstone. If you really don't like this topic, I would recommend just not viewing the thread anymore.
I'm sorry I offended you. I came at this assuming you were worried you were missing out on power and wanted to dissuade that. Don't know why I came to that conclusion and you know what they say about assumptions. I didn't need to say it was pointless either. A dramatic way to say unnecessary that's dismissive. I'm sorry I was callous with my language.
Artificer's capstone is generally considered to be very good as well. Essentially +6 to all saves and avoid dropping up to 6 times a day.
Soul of Artifice
At 20th level, you develop a mystical connection to your magic items, which you can draw on for protection:
You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws per magic item you are currently attuned to.
If you’re reduced to 0 hit points but not killed out-right, you can use your reaction to end one of your artificer infusions, causing you to drop to 1 hit point instead of 0.
Oh that is a good one, I completely forgot about that Capstone. Artificer definitely is up there with the Druid Capstone. If I was going to rate the Capstone abilities it would probably go along something like this:
Druid / Artificer (Thanks for bringing that up)
Cleric (Because that once a week Divine help is awesome. If it was once a day this would be #1)
Barbarian / Paladin (This is a hard one because it depends on the Subclass)
Wizard / Fighter
Sorcerer / Rogue
Warlock
Monk / Bard
Ranger (Yeah, other classes get this kind of thing far earlier)
Any spell can be counterspelled. It doesn't matter if it "looks like they are casting" or not.
Where did you get this interpretation ? It's contrary to the SAC which explicitly states: "If a sorcerer casts a spell with only verbal or somatic components using Subtle Spell, can an opponent use counterspell against it? If a spell that’s altered by Subtle Spell has no material component, then it’s impossible for anyone to perceive the spell being cast. So, since you can’t see the casting, counterspell is of no use."
This would therefore apply exactly the same way for the druid's feature which is even more powerful as it allows to completely ignore some material components (which is not the case for subtle spell above): "Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell."
And you are wrong. If a spell has a verbal or somatic component, then the caster is doing or saying something that is physically visible as being someone casting, unless they have the correct Metamagic. Which is not a druid thing.
Well, except for the Archdruid, which is what the OP is about...
This. Note the specification as to when the casting time reaction can be used:
* - which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell
But that artificer ability allowing them to not die as long as they have infusions left seems quite powerful, and the increase to all saving throws is quite powerful. Either of those seems on par with (or better than) other capstones, and Artificers get both.
Artificer's capstone is generally considered to be very good as well. Essentially +6 to all saves and avoid dropping up to 6 times a day.
Soul of Artifice
At 20th level, you develop a mystical connection to your magic items, which you can draw on for protection:
You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws per magic item you are currently attuned to.
If you’re reduced to 0 hit points but not killed out-right, you can use your reaction to end one of your artificer infusions, causing you to drop to 1 hit point instead of 0.
Keep in mind that it requires your reaction to use, so only once per round. If you are fighting an intelligent creature, given at lvl 20, then it is unlikely to save you since they, or the rest of the opposition, will kill you anyway with their next attack.
As such, I would rate that capstone as rather weak. 4th lvl Death Ward accomplishes much the same and it also comes with insta death protection.
Artificer's capstone is generally considered to be very good as well. Essentially +6 to all saves and avoid dropping up to 6 times a day.
Soul of Artifice
At 20th level, you develop a mystical connection to your magic items, which you can draw on for protection:
You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws per magic item you are currently attuned to.
If you’re reduced to 0 hit points but not killed out-right, you can use your reaction to end one of your artificer infusions, causing you to drop to 1 hit point instead of 0.
Keep in mind that it requires your reaction to use, so only once per round. If you are fighting an intelligent creature, given at lvl 20, then it is unlikely to save you since they, or the rest of the opposition, will kill you anyway with their next attack.
As such, I would rate that capstone as rather weak. 4th lvl Death Ward accomplishes much the same and it also comes with insta death protection.
I mean, you still get the opportunity to use it with much more frequency than just about any one else with similar features - which are usable once per long or sometimes short rest.
Artificer's capstone is generally considered to be very good as well. Essentially +6 to all saves and avoid dropping up to 6 times a day.
Soul of Artifice
At 20th level, you develop a mystical connection to your magic items, which you can draw on for protection:
You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws per magic item you are currently attuned to.
If you’re reduced to 0 hit points but not killed out-right, you can use your reaction to end one of your artificer infusions, causing you to drop to 1 hit point instead of 0.
Keep in mind that it requires your reaction to use, so only once per round. If you are fighting an intelligent creature, given at lvl 20, then it is unlikely to save you since they, or the rest of the opposition, will kill you anyway with their next attack.
As such, I would rate that capstone as rather weak. 4th lvl Death Ward accomplishes much the same and it also comes with insta death protection.
If the only feature the Artificer capstone granted them was the "lose an infusion, drop to 1 instead of 0" then I would agree that this would be lower on the list of capstones, though still no where near the weakest. However, because it also grants them a +1 to all saving throws per magic item they are attuned too which at Level 18 they gain the ability to attune to 6, it lifts their capstone up towards the top.
Best thing is, the second feature can have no effect on the first. You can attune to 6 magic items and have all your infusions on various other objects that you aren't attuned too. So you can have the power of being attuned to 6 magical items, get +6 to all saving throws and 6 times a day can prevent dropping to 0. It's an amazing Capstone and far better than some of the others.
The Cleric does have an amazing Capstone, and I agree it would be number one if it wasn't for the fact if can only be used once every 7 days and alot of it has to do with DM discretion on what it does. I mean it's basically the Wish spell but can't be used everyday (though with Wish you can lose the ability to cast it.)
The cleric capstone is good, but it is entirely dependent on the DM. It's absolutely amazing if your DM lets you have the powers of a god for a little bit, but kind of sucks if the DM just makes the feature cast raise dead or regenerate once.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
So I never realized till recently, but if you're ever fighting an Archdruid you can't counterspell most of their spells. Looking at that Capstone ability not only do they get unlimited uses of their wildshape, but none of their spells require any kind of components unless it's a material component with a cost. I already knew that for Moon Druids, the Capstone for their class is absolutely beastly. It wasn't until I recently started taking a close look at all the capstone abilities for all the classes that I realized that Druids probably have the best Capstone ability.
Others come close to being really good, like the Clerics instant god help is great, but has a major cool down and does require the benevolence of the DM. Barbarian is amazing for their class, but those are the only ones that I think come even close to the Druid Capstone.
What is everyone else's thought on this?
No one, of any class requires anything except material components that have a cost. Arcane Focus and Component Pouch, picked at 1st level, covers that.
Druids are great, yes, but no, their capstone is not the best. It's pretty much balanced across the board.
But then again, how many campaigns have you played till level 20? And how many people have gone single class till 20?
In all of my time playing D&D since Basic: 4
In 5e: 2
Single Class: 1
I think you missed what it does. It doesn't require Verbal, Somatic or Material Components to cast a spell unless the material component has a cost. This means that there is no sign that they're casting a spell so none of their spells can be Counterspelled once they get to level Twenty.
Not sure why you even brought up playing till level 20. I was just stating that their have the best capstone ability.
And you're wrong, there is at least one terrible capstone ability and then a couple others that aren't that impressive.
Any spell can be counterspelled. It doesn't matter if it "looks like they are casting" or not. And you are wrong. If a spell has a verbal or somatic component, then the caster is doing or saying something that is physically visible as being someone casting, unless they have the correct Metamagic. Which is not a druid thing. Even if you don't have to pay the financial cost of a material component, spell-casting is very obvious. It does not cost the price of the material component. The Physical and Verbal signs still show of the Somatic and Verbal components.
Your very post brought up Capstones. You don't get those unless you are 20 in one single class.
Comparing capstone power levels seems pretty pointless to me. A fraction of a percent of campaigns get played at that level, and beyond that, unless you've really ham-fisted your build, you should have more than enough power to be a god-like being without needing to optimize your capstone. Especially on a full caster where your power scaling is closer to quadratic than linear.
But yes Archdruids are insane.
If comparing the capstone power seems pointless then maybe you shouldn't have offered up an opinion seeing as that is exactly what this thread is about. I personally started this only to see if I happen to miss one of the capstones, or if someone believed there is a better one out there than the Druid Capstone. If you really don't like this topic, I would recommend just not viewing the thread anymore.
I'm sorry I offended you. I came at this assuming you were worried you were missing out on power and wanted to dissuade that. Don't know why I came to that conclusion and you know what they say about assumptions. I didn't need to say it was pointless either. A dramatic way to say unnecessary that's dismissive. I'm sorry I was callous with my language.
Artificer's capstone is generally considered to be very good as well. Essentially +6 to all saves and avoid dropping up to 6 times a day.
Soul of Artifice
At 20th level, you develop a mystical connection to your magic items, which you can draw on for protection:
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Oh that is a good one, I completely forgot about that Capstone. Artificer definitely is up there with the Druid Capstone. If I was going to rate the Capstone abilities it would probably go along something like this:
I chose Artificer. It's really good.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This. Note the specification as to when the casting time reaction can be used:
But that artificer ability allowing them to not die as long as they have infusions left seems quite powerful, and the increase to all saving throws is quite powerful. Either of those seems on par with (or better than) other capstones, and Artificers get both.
Keep in mind that it requires your reaction to use, so only once per round. If you are fighting an intelligent creature, given at lvl 20, then it is unlikely to save you since they, or the rest of the opposition, will kill you anyway with their next attack.
As such, I would rate that capstone as rather weak. 4th lvl Death Ward accomplishes much the same and it also comes with insta death protection.
I mean, you still get the opportunity to use it with much more frequency than just about any one else with similar features - which are usable once per long or sometimes short rest.
If the only feature the Artificer capstone granted them was the "lose an infusion, drop to 1 instead of 0" then I would agree that this would be lower on the list of capstones, though still no where near the weakest. However, because it also grants them a +1 to all saving throws per magic item they are attuned too which at Level 18 they gain the ability to attune to 6, it lifts their capstone up towards the top.
Best thing is, the second feature can have no effect on the first. You can attune to 6 magic items and have all your infusions on various other objects that you aren't attuned too. So you can have the power of being attuned to 6 magical items, get +6 to all saving throws and 6 times a day can prevent dropping to 0. It's an amazing Capstone and far better than some of the others.
I agree, Artificer is a powerful capstone, particularly if you are part of a party. Harder to gang up on you if the Paladin is in the way.
But with the right DM, Cleric rules. Having your god come down and fix it is about as powerful as you can get.
The Cleric does have an amazing Capstone, and I agree it would be number one if it wasn't for the fact if can only be used once every 7 days and alot of it has to do with DM discretion on what it does. I mean it's basically the Wish spell but can't be used everyday (though with Wish you can lose the ability to cast it.)
The cleric capstone is good, but it is entirely dependent on the DM. It's absolutely amazing if your DM lets you have the powers of a god for a little bit, but kind of sucks if the DM just makes the feature cast raise dead or regenerate once.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms