Sorry if this is a repeat but I just can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for or clarify this in my mind of the intent of the Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher feature. I'm looking and hoping for fact, not opinions.
"At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon’s damage type."
Does this mean a Gloom Stalker can only use this feature only one time during their first turn of combat per each encounter OR is a Gloom Stalker able to use this feature at the start of each of their turns per round?
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I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
It's just your first round of each combat that it works.
The wording is important for a variety of reasons. It's YOUR first round of combat, so if the Gloom Stalker arrives late at the combat for some reason, as long as it is THEIR first turn in that combat, they can use this feature.
Similarly, if they have a method of taking an additional Attack action (such as the fighter ability action surge) then they can use the feature twice during that combat turn (note just having the extra attack feature doesn't trigger additional dread ambusher attacks).
So basically the gloom staker starts his first turn on one enemy, uses dread ambusher, then on the subsequent turns on the same target he can’t use it again but can use it on his next target and so on?
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I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
Is the confusion with the word combat? Each combat is the entire fray of all parties involved. On your very first turn of combat you can use dread ambush. After that first round, Dread Ambush does not affect that combat. You can get in as many combats as you want during the course of the day and use it at the start of each of those combats - short or long rests have no bearing on it - but is still only usable on your first turn of that combat. On your next turn you are back to normal attacks.
I don't know if they ever give a clear definition of what "combat" is, but in chapter 9 of the Player's Handbook, the way things are worded it is certainly referring to all parties involved and not just the engagement of one character/creature against another.
I'm not sure if that clarifies anything or not for you.
During your first round of any given combat encounter (i.e., on the first turn you take after rolling Initiative), you get the bonus. On subsequent rounds of that encounter, you do not.
So the Gloom Stalker runs into a group goblins, uses Dread Ambusher on his first turn in his first round and can't use it again, until after all the goblins are dead and the next "combat" encounter occurs a few minutes later against a group of orcs?
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I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
What if the GM makes you roll initiative early on so you are only able to move on our first initiative order and not attack, I.e. you see monsters 200ft away, roll initiative. If you can’t attack o your first turn do you effectively lose your dread ambush?
A DM should only have you roll initiative like that if you have a surprise round. If there's no combat or chase or something then there should not be an initiative roll as the whole point is for ordering your turns and the enemy turns in combat.
I would discuss with the DM when combat rounds of the initiative start and on the first turn of combat where you will be able to actually attack an enemy is the one where your Dread Ambush applies.
If he's saying combat starts while none of you could actually get close enough to attack, at all, and doesn't care about your dread ambush and does this often then he's penalising you and removing any opportunity for your class feature and, basically, is being a total dick. If he will not budge ask if you can swap Dread Ambush for a different ranger feature of same level or change character. If he still won't help then he's a failure as a DM and you would be better off in a different group or with a different DM.
Thats why you have Longbows to attack from range. The feature does not mention the attack must be from a melee weapon, so you get a second (or third) attack from long range.
I have an amateur inquiry to add to this. Does the additional attack do normal damage, then an additional 1d8 damage of that same type? I have a player that thinks you only get the 1d8 damage. I think that diminishes the impact of this feature. thoughts?
I have an amateur inquiry to add to this. Does the additional attack do normal damage, then an additional 1d8 damage of that same type? I have a player that thinks you only get the 1d8 damage. I think that diminishes the impact of this feature. thoughts?
Hi there Drakowulf,
the wording is quite specific on the Dread Ambusher skill and it states:
If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon’s damage type.
As an example, if the character would normally inflict 1d8+4 damage with their attack, then the attack from dread ambusher would inflict 2d8+4.
Let's say the Ranger hits with his shortsword attack for 1d6+3 piercing damage. Does he get a second attack roll that also does 1d6+3 damage plus an additional 1d8 damage, or is it one attack roll total with 1d6 + 1d8 + 3 damage? I think it is the "you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action." that is throwing me off.
Let's break down what it says. I've colour coded for reference.
If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon’s damage type.
The first part, in blue, defines that you MUST take the Attack action for the rest of this part of the ability to work.
The part in red defines that, when you have taken the attack action, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. Say the character is 5th level and has the Extra Attack ability, normally making two attacks with the attack action, this will stack and they get to make three attacks with this ability (only on that first turn).
The purple text defines that the bonus attack that is granted does an additional 1d8 damage.
In your example, let's assume the ranger is only 3rd level, so doesn't have the extra attack ability.
The ranger takes the attack action, attacking with their shortsword, doing 1d6+3 damage (if the attack hits). Due to the Dread Ambusher ability, the ranger can then take an additional attack as part of that attack action (note that they CAN move between these attacks if they have available movement). If that 2nd attack hits, it will do 1d6+3+1d8.
Let's say the Ranger hits with his shortsword attack for 1d6+3 piercing damage. Does he get a second attack roll that also does 1d6+3 damage plus an additional 1d8 damage, or is it one attack roll total with 1d6 + 1d8 + 3 damage? I think it is the "you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action." that is throwing me off.
Yes. You make your first attack as normal and you can then make a second attack - if you're using the same weapon it's the same attack roll and damage which, in your example is 1d6+3 piercing damage. If this second attack hits then after you roll the normal weapon damage you then roll a further 1d8 damage of the same type, in your example this is piercing damage.
This clarifies everything. Thanks for taking the time to help. I appreciate it. I'm getting a group going for 5e, and I'm finding I have to shed my 3.5e/4e habits.
The best advice I have heard is from Jeremy Crawford, when he said that people shouldn't infer rules in 5th edition, in the way happened with previous editions.
This means that if a spell or ability says it works a certain way, that doesn't mean a similar spell or ability works the same, unless it specifically says so.
And a 17th-level Gloom Stalker 3rd-level Battlemaster with the Sharpshooter feat and Swift Quiver active before combat can do a 12d8+90 nova (not including magical weapon or arrow bonuses).
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
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Sorry if this is a repeat but I just can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for or clarify this in my mind of the intent of the Gloom Stalker Dread Ambusher feature. I'm looking and hoping for fact, not opinions.
"At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon’s damage type."
Does this mean a Gloom Stalker can only use this feature only one time during their first turn of combat per each encounter OR is a Gloom Stalker able to use this feature at the start of each of their turns per round?
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
It's just your first round of each combat that it works.
The wording is important for a variety of reasons. It's YOUR first round of combat, so if the Gloom Stalker arrives late at the combat for some reason, as long as it is THEIR first turn in that combat, they can use this feature.
Similarly, if they have a method of taking an additional Attack action (such as the fighter ability action surge) then they can use the feature twice during that combat turn (note just having the extra attack feature doesn't trigger additional dread ambusher attacks).
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So basically the gloom staker starts his first turn on one enemy, uses dread ambusher, then on the subsequent turns on the same target he can’t use it again but can use it on his next target and so on?
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
Is the confusion with the word combat? Each combat is the entire fray of all parties involved. On your very first turn of combat you can use dread ambush. After that first round, Dread Ambush does not affect that combat. You can get in as many combats as you want during the course of the day and use it at the start of each of those combats - short or long rests have no bearing on it - but is still only usable on your first turn of that combat. On your next turn you are back to normal attacks.
I don't know if they ever give a clear definition of what "combat" is, but in chapter 9 of the Player's Handbook, the way things are worded it is certainly referring to all parties involved and not just the engagement of one character/creature against another.
I'm not sure if that clarifies anything or not for you.
During your first round of any given combat encounter (i.e., on the first turn you take after rolling Initiative), you get the bonus. On subsequent rounds of that encounter, you do not.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
No, only once per combat - the first time the Ranger is up in Initiative order.
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So the Gloom Stalker runs into a group goblins, uses Dread Ambusher on his first turn in his first round and can't use it again, until after all the goblins are dead and the next "combat" encounter occurs a few minutes later against a group of orcs?
I'm not responsible for managing your feelings or how you perceive or understand what I say and if you get offended, it doesn't make you right just means you cry and whine louder. I grew up in a time where sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me, such a missing trait among younger people nowadays.
Yes.
What if the GM makes you roll initiative early on so you are only able to move on our first initiative order and not attack, I.e. you see monsters 200ft away, roll initiative. If you can’t attack o your first turn do you effectively lose your dread ambush?
A DM should only have you roll initiative like that if you have a surprise round. If there's no combat or chase or something then there should not be an initiative roll as the whole point is for ordering your turns and the enemy turns in combat.
I would discuss with the DM when combat rounds of the initiative start and on the first turn of combat where you will be able to actually attack an enemy is the one where your Dread Ambush applies.
If he's saying combat starts while none of you could actually get close enough to attack, at all, and doesn't care about your dread ambush and does this often then he's penalising you and removing any opportunity for your class feature and, basically, is being a total dick. If he will not budge ask if you can swap Dread Ambush for a different ranger feature of same level or change character. If he still won't help then he's a failure as a DM and you would be better off in a different group or with a different DM.
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Thats why you have Longbows to attack from range. The feature does not mention the attack must be from a melee weapon, so you get a second (or third) attack from long range.
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Oh, yes, of course I totally remembered about bows... *cough* >.>
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I have an amateur inquiry to add to this. Does the additional attack do normal damage, then an additional 1d8 damage of that same type? I have a player that thinks you only get the 1d8 damage. I think that diminishes the impact of this feature. thoughts?
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Thank you for your response, Stormknight.
To further elaborate with a specific example:
Let's say the Ranger hits with his shortsword attack for 1d6+3 piercing damage. Does he get a second attack roll that also does 1d6+3 damage plus an additional 1d8 damage, or is it one attack roll total with 1d6 + 1d8 + 3 damage? I think it is the "you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action." that is throwing me off.
Let's break down what it says. I've colour coded for reference.
In your example, let's assume the ranger is only 3rd level, so doesn't have the extra attack ability.
The ranger takes the attack action, attacking with their shortsword, doing 1d6+3 damage (if the attack hits). Due to the Dread Ambusher ability, the ranger can then take an additional attack as part of that attack action (note that they CAN move between these attacks if they have available movement). If that 2nd attack hits, it will do 1d6+3+1d8.
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This clarifies everything. Thanks for taking the time to help. I appreciate it. I'm getting a group going for 5e, and I'm finding I have to shed my 3.5e/4e habits.
The best advice I have heard is from Jeremy Crawford, when he said that people shouldn't infer rules in 5th edition, in the way happened with previous editions.
This means that if a spell or ability says it works a certain way, that doesn't mean a similar spell or ability works the same, unless it specifically says so.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
And a 17th-level Gloom Stalker 3rd-level Battlemaster with the Sharpshooter feat and Swift Quiver active before combat can do a 12d8+90 nova (not including magical weapon or arrow bonuses).
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.