Yes, I have my players use it as their means of casting spells as well as a substitution for material components that are not referred to in the spell description containing an item that costs money.
Can you cast a spell using a spell focus that doesn't require M (material components)?
By RAW, if a spell has no material component, then your spell focus doesn't count as component for the casting of that spell. Therefore, if you're holding your spell focus in one hand, that hand cannot be used for the Somatic component of that spell. If your other hand is free, you can use that hand for the Somatic component. You're then welcome to use the spell focus in your first hand just for artistry, but it has no actual effect on the casting.
Can you cast a spell using a spell focus that doesn't require M (material components)?
By RAW, if a spell has no material component, then your spell focus doesn't count as component for the casting of that spell. Therefore, if you're holding your spell focus in one hand, that hand cannot be used for the Somatic component of that spell. If your other hand is free, you can use that hand for the Somatic component. You're then welcome to use the spell focus in your first hand just for artistry, but it has no actual effect on the casting.
So you're saying that if I have the spellcasting focus in one hand and the other hand free then I can cast the spell with the spellcasting focus, even though it isn't needed? Just for flavor or artistry as you say?
Can you cast a spell using a spell focus that doesn't require M (material components)?
By RAW, if a spell has no material component, then your spell focus doesn't count as component for the casting of that spell. Therefore, if you're holding your spell focus in one hand, that hand cannot be used for the Somatic component of that spell. If your other hand is free, you can use that hand for the Somatic component. You're then welcome to use the spell focus in your first hand just for artistry, but it has no actual effect on the casting.
So you're saying that if I have the spellcasting focus in one hand and the other hand free then I can cast the spell with the spellcasting focus, even though it isn't needed? Just for flavor or artistry as you say?
That depends on what you mean by "cast the spell with the spellcasting focus." As far as the rules are concerned, you are casting the spell with your empty hand and waving the focus around ineffectually with the other. But that can look however you want it to.
Can you cast a spell using a spell focus that doesn't require M (material components)?
By RAW, if a spell has no material component, then your spell focus doesn't count as component for the casting of that spell. Therefore, if you're holding your spell focus in one hand, that hand cannot be used for the Somatic component of that spell. If your other hand is free, you can use that hand for the Somatic component. You're then welcome to use the spell focus in your first hand just for artistry, but it has no actual effect on the casting.
So you're saying that if I have the spellcasting focus in one hand and the other hand free then I can cast the spell with the spellcasting focus, even though it isn't needed? Just for flavor or artistry as you say?
In that case, you aren't casting the spell with the spell casting focus; you are casting the spell using a free hand for the Somatic component, while holding a useless object, a spell casting focus, in the other. The spell is not cast with the spell casting focus, it is cast without the spell casting focus, even though you are holding it at the time. You are no more casting it with your spell casting focus than you are with your boots.
Obviously I answered the question wrong so that means casting say, magic missile I don’t need to have the focus in hand?
Technically, RAW the focus would prevent you from casting Magic Missile with that hand.
Gawd, I've been doing this wrong for so wrong. I was treating the spell focus as the necessary item that would allow you to cast any of your spells and a replacement for no-cost material items.
So for Magic Missile I would need one hand free for the somatic gesture the other hand would be empty or holding whatever. If there was a spell that had the material components say Acid Arrow that is where I would need to have the focus in one hand and the other for the somatic gesture?
I guess it's time to go back to Chapter 10 of the PHB.
Obviously I answered the question wrong so that means casting say, magic missile I don’t need to have the focus in hand?
Technically, RAW the focus would prevent you from casting Magic Missile with that hand.
Gawd, I've been doing this wrong for so wrong. I was treating the spell focus as the necessary item that would allow you to cast any of your spells and a replacement for no-cost material items.
So for Magic Missile I would need one hand free for the somatic gesture the other hand would be empty or holding whatever. If there was a spell that had the material components say Acid Arrow that is where I would need to have the focus in one hand and the other for the somatic gesture?
I guess it's time to go back to Chapter 10 of the PHB.
In the case of Acid Arrow, the somatic hand and the material hand can be the same hand.
Obviously I answered the question wrong so that means casting say, magic missile I don’t need to have the focus in hand?
Technically, RAW the focus would prevent you from casting Magic Missile with that hand.
Gawd, I've been doing this wrong for so wrong. I was treating the spell focus as the necessary item that would allow you to cast any of your spells and a replacement for no-cost material items.
So for Magic Missile I would need one hand free for the somatic gesture the other hand would be empty or holding whatever. If there was a spell that had the material components say Acid Arrow that is where I would need to have the focus in one hand and the other for the somatic gesture?
I guess it's time to go back to Chapter 10 of the PHB.
if the spell has a material component, then the hand used for accessing the material component can also be used to perform the somatic components of the spell. This applies to a spell casting focus, when a spell casting focus can be used as a substitute for material components, ie, for zero GP cost components. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#MaterialM
The corner case is where a spell has no material component but does have a somatic component. In that case, holding a spell casting focus is a hindrance, not an aid. EDIT: Hindrance was a poor choice of words. What I meant was, holding a spell casting focus and having a free hand for somatic components when casting a spell without material components occupies a hand for no purpose, when that hand might be do something useful like holding a torch, or a shield, or whatever. It doesn't hinder the casting of the spell.
Obviously I answered the question wrong so that means casting say, magic missile I don’t need to have the focus in hand?
Technically, RAW the focus would prevent you from casting Magic Missile with that hand.
Gawd, I've been doing this wrong for so wrong. I was treating the spell focus as the necessary item that would allow you to cast any of your spells and a replacement for no-cost material items.
So for Magic Missile I would need one hand free for the somatic gesture the other hand would be empty or holding whatever. If there was a spell that had the material components say Acid Arrow that is where I would need to have the focus in one hand and the other for the somatic gesture?
I guess it's time to go back to Chapter 10 of the PHB.
if the spell has a material component, then the hand used for accessing the material component can also be used to perform the somatic components of the spell. This applies to a spell casting focus, when a spell casting focus can be used as a substitute for material components, ie, for zero GP cost components. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#MaterialM
The corner case is where a spell has no material component but does have a somatic component. In that case, holding a spell casting focus is a hindrance, not an aid.
The corner case is where a spell has no material component but does have a somatic component. In that case, holding a spell casting focus is a hindrance, not an aid.
Clarify hindrance?
If you are holding a spellcasting focus in a hand then that hand isn't free to perform a somatic component.
So say that you are (for example) holding a sword in one hand and a spellcasting focus in the other. Then you can cast Fireball because it has V, S, M components but you can't cast Fire bolt as that only have V, S components. To be able to cast the Fire bolt you would need to put away/drop either the sword or the focus.
I have a free hand to cover the the S part of casting the spell, I can also supply the V with my voice (no silence or anything) so I can fulfill what is necessary to cast the spell.
Can I use a spellcasting focus to cast the spell anyway, even though it isn't needed?
I checked under the wizard and it just says I can use arcane focus for spellcasting foucs.
I checked the PHB. for spellcasting rules and it says under components, right before discussing the individual V,S.M descriptions:
A spell’s components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell’s description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components. If you can’t provide one or more of a spell’s components, you are unable to cast the spell.
This suggests you can use a spellcasting focus to cast a spell so long as you also meet it's other requirements. Need to speak to cover V, need a free hand to cover S, and need a component pouch or arcane focus to cover M, unless the M is a cost then you have to supply that cost (ie. 10 gp in materials to cast the Find Familiar spell).
I am aware you do not need a focus to cast a spell with only V,S but can you use one anyway? Is there a rule that specifically states you cannot cast a spell this way?
This suggests you can use a spellcasting focus to cast a spell so long as you also meet it's other requirements. Need to speak to cover V, need a free hand to cover S, and need a component pouch or arcane focus to cover M, unless the M is a cost then you have to supply that cost (ie. 10 gp in materials to cast the Find Familiar spell).
I am aware you do not need a focus to cast a spell with only V,S but can you use one anyway? Is there a rule that specifically states you cannot cast a spell this way?
No. If the spell have no Material component then it has no interaction at all with a spellcasting focus or a material component pouch.
And thus you should not be able to gain any bonus it would potentially give to spellcasting (like from a Imbued Wood Focus).
Edit to clarify:
A spellcasting focus like Imbued Wood Focus says "When you cast a damage-dealing spell using this item as your spellcasting focus, you gain a +1 bonus to one damage roll of the spell..." meaning that the spell would need to have a Material component for the caster to get the +1 on the attack roll.
Contrast that to an item like Staff of Power that says "While holding it, you gain a +2 bonus to Armor Class, saving throws, and spell attack rolls." which allows the caster to get the +2 to the attack roll for all spells.
I have a free hand to cover the the S part of casting the spell, I can also supply the V with my voice (no silence or anything) so I can fulfill what is necessary to cast the spell.
Can I use a spellcasting focus to cast the spell anyway, even though it isn't needed?
I checked under the wizard and it just says I can use arcane focus for spellcasting foucs.
I checked the PHB. for spellcasting rules and it says under components, right before discussing the individual V,S.M descriptions:
A spell’s components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell’s description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components. If you can’t provide one or more of a spell’s components, you are unable to cast the spell.
This suggests you can use a spellcasting focus to cast a spell so long as you also meet it's other requirements. Need to speak to cover V, need a free hand to cover S, and need a component pouch or arcane focus to cover M, unless the M is a cost then you have to supply that cost (ie. 10 gp in materials to cast the Find Familiar spell).
I am aware you do not need a focus to cast a spell with only V,S but can you use one anyway? Is there a rule that specifically states you cannot cast a spell this way?
As far as I am aware there is no rule explicitly stating that you can use an arcane focus when casting a spell without material components.
Also, the text you quote is descriptive of spellcasting requirements and the limitation that you cannot cast a spell if you do not satisfy its requirements. It says nothing about if it is possible to exceed these requirements or what happens if you do. As you note it does not explicitly prohibit exceeding a spells requirements, but that is all.
I am afraid I can't do better than "Nothing explicitly prohibits it". Personally I would allow it, but then again I would allow a hand holding an arcane focus to be used to meet a somatic component requirement for all spells, regardless of their other component requirements. This allows for classic media fantasy aesthetics like Harry Potter wand waving and Lord of the Rings sword and staff wielding.
I'm sorry everyone. Really I am. I just cannot wrap my head around this conversation and try to find corresponding rules in PHB or DMG. I may give up and stop bothering everyone and just do what I feel is right but I'm a rule follower so if there is a rule written out there that I just have not been able to find I would like to know it.
Focus is in the left hand and in my right is nothing.
Question:
I assume the spell goes off without a hitch. There is nothing specifically stated in Chapter 10 of PHB that says this spell would not be executed but it sounds like in this conversation that would not be true and the spell fails.
It almost sounds like the spell energy is being redirected into the focus thus negating a V, S spell.
There is a feat that can be found in tasha's rules called Artificer Initiate.
It's 3rd bullet point reads:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
The things I would like to bring to people's attention about this feat is:
1. If you were to select Alchemist's Supplies as your type of artisan's tools and use that as your spellcasting focus. As it says you can within the wording of the feature.
2. It also says you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for ANY spell you cast that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Would you (this you refers to anyone who wants to weigh in on this) allow a caster to use said Alchemist's Supplies to cast Magic Missile since that is a spell that meets the conditions mentioned in the feature?
A spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
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Can you cast a spell using a spell focus that doesn't require M (material components)?
Yes, I have my players use it as their means of casting spells as well as a substitution for material components that are not referred to in the spell description containing an item that costs money.
RAW: No
RAF: Sure.
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By RAW, if a spell has no material component, then your spell focus doesn't count as component for the casting of that spell. Therefore, if you're holding your spell focus in one hand, that hand cannot be used for the Somatic component of that spell. If your other hand is free, you can use that hand for the Somatic component. You're then welcome to use the spell focus in your first hand just for artistry, but it has no actual effect on the casting.
So you're saying that if I have the spellcasting focus in one hand and the other hand free then I can cast the spell with the spellcasting focus, even though it isn't needed? Just for flavor or artistry as you say?
Obviously I answered the question wrong so that means casting say, magic missile I don’t need to have the focus in hand?
That depends on what you mean by "cast the spell with the spellcasting focus." As far as the rules are concerned, you are casting the spell with your empty hand and waving the focus around ineffectually with the other. But that can look however you want it to.
In that case, you aren't casting the spell with the spell casting focus; you are casting the spell using a free hand for the Somatic component, while holding a useless object, a spell casting focus, in the other. The spell is not cast with the spell casting focus, it is cast without the spell casting focus, even though you are holding it at the time. You are no more casting it with your spell casting focus than you are with your boots.
Technically, RAW the focus would prevent you from casting Magic Missile with that hand.
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Or any spell that has a somatic component but no material component. Like these: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=t&filter-material=f&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=
Gawd, I've been doing this wrong for so wrong. I was treating the spell focus as the necessary item that would allow you to cast any of your spells and a replacement for no-cost material items.
So for Magic Missile I would need one hand free for the somatic gesture the other hand would be empty or holding whatever. If there was a spell that had the material components say Acid Arrow that is where I would need to have the focus in one hand and the other for the somatic gesture?
I guess it's time to go back to Chapter 10 of the PHB.
In the case of Acid Arrow, the somatic hand and the material hand can be the same hand.
if the spell has a material component, then the hand used for accessing the material component can also be used to perform the somatic components of the spell. This applies to a spell casting focus, when a spell casting focus can be used as a substitute for material components, ie, for zero GP cost components. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#MaterialM
The corner case is where a spell has no material component but does have a somatic component. In that case, holding a spell casting focus is a hindrance, not an aid. EDIT: Hindrance was a poor choice of words. What I meant was, holding a spell casting focus and having a free hand for somatic components when casting a spell without material components occupies a hand for no purpose, when that hand might be do something useful like holding a torch, or a shield, or whatever. It doesn't hinder the casting of the spell.
Clarify hindrance?
If you are holding a spellcasting focus in a hand then that hand isn't free to perform a somatic component.
So say that you are (for example) holding a sword in one hand and a spellcasting focus in the other.
Then you can cast Fireball because it has V, S, M components but you can't cast Fire bolt as that only have V, S components.
To be able to cast the Fire bolt you would need to put away/drop either the sword or the focus.
Thank you for the many responses and answering many unasked questions along with some that were asked.
To catch everyone up to speed and hopefully get some clarification:
To use Magic Missile as an example:
I have a free hand to cover the the S part of casting the spell, I can also supply the V with my voice (no silence or anything) so I can fulfill what is necessary to cast the spell.
Can I use a spellcasting focus to cast the spell anyway, even though it isn't needed?
I checked under the wizard and it just says I can use arcane focus for spellcasting foucs.
I checked the PHB. for spellcasting rules and it says under components, right before discussing the individual V,S.M descriptions:
A spell’s components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell’s description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components. If you can’t provide one or more of a spell’s components, you are unable to cast the spell.
This suggests you can use a spellcasting focus to cast a spell so long as you also meet it's other requirements. Need to speak to cover V, need a free hand to cover S, and need a component pouch or arcane focus to cover M, unless the M is a cost then you have to supply that cost (ie. 10 gp in materials to cast the Find Familiar spell).
I am aware you do not need a focus to cast a spell with only V,S but can you use one anyway? Is there a rule that specifically states you cannot cast a spell this way?
No. If the spell have no Material component then it has no interaction at all with a spellcasting focus or a material component pouch.
And thus you should not be able to gain any bonus it would potentially give to spellcasting (like from a Imbued Wood Focus).
Edit to clarify:
A spellcasting focus like Imbued Wood Focus says "When you cast a damage-dealing spell using this item as your spellcasting focus, you gain a +1 bonus to one damage roll of the spell..." meaning that the spell would need to have a Material component for the caster to get the +1 on the attack roll.
Contrast that to an item like Staff of Power that says "While holding it, you gain a +2 bonus to Armor Class, saving throws, and spell attack rolls." which allows the caster to get the +2 to the attack roll for all spells.
As far as I am aware there is no rule explicitly stating that you can use an arcane focus when casting a spell without material components.
Also, the text you quote is descriptive of spellcasting requirements and the limitation that you cannot cast a spell if you do not satisfy its requirements. It says nothing about if it is possible to exceed these requirements or what happens if you do. As you note it does not explicitly prohibit exceeding a spells requirements, but that is all.
I am afraid I can't do better than "Nothing explicitly prohibits it". Personally I would allow it, but then again I would allow a hand holding an arcane focus to be used to meet a somatic component requirement for all spells, regardless of their other component requirements. This allows for classic media fantasy aesthetics like Harry Potter wand waving and Lord of the Rings sword and staff wielding.
I'm sorry everyone. Really I am. I just cannot wrap my head around this conversation and try to find corresponding rules in PHB or DMG. I may give up and stop bothering everyone and just do what I feel is right but I'm a rule follower so if there is a rule written out there that I just have not been able to find I would like to know it.
Setup:
Casting Magic Missile
Focus is in the left hand and in my right is nothing.
Question:
I assume the spell goes off without a hitch. There is nothing specifically stated in Chapter 10 of PHB that says this spell would not be executed but it sounds like in this conversation that would not be true and the spell fails.
It almost sounds like the spell energy is being redirected into the focus thus negating a V, S spell.
There is a feat that can be found in tasha's rules called Artificer Initiate.
It's 3rd bullet point reads:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
The things I would like to bring to people's attention about this feat is:
1. If you were to select Alchemist's Supplies as your type of artisan's tools and use that as your spellcasting focus.
As it says you can within the wording of the feature.
2. It also says you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for ANY spell you cast that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Would you (this you refers to anyone who wants to weigh in on this) allow a caster to use said Alchemist's Supplies to cast Magic Missile since that is a spell that meets the conditions mentioned in the feature?
A spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.