The first paragraph states that you must succeed the save or something bad happens: „Your touch inflicts a magical contagion. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.“ Therefore nothing should happen if you succeed the save. But in the second paragraph it says that the target of the spell must repeat the saving throw to not suffer any effects: „The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.“ So my question is: Does nothing happen at all if you succeed the initial saving throw, or is the second part still taking place?
[...] So my question is: Does nothing happen at all if you succeed the initial saving throw, or is the second part still taking place?
The way I read it:
The target succeeds on a first Constitution saving throw: end of story.
The target fails that first Constitution saving throw: Necrotic damage, Poisoned condition, Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability, and the target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures.
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.
This is a bit ambiguous, but that second effect happens regardless of the initial save. The target has more trouble overcoming con-based poison effects until they clear the 3 saves. So to be effective, this spell would be used first and then followed up with other poison spells/effects.
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
What do you think the effect of the spell is?
The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.
When does this poisoned condition end?
The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.
The spell doesn't say exactly the words I said, but the result is the same as what I said: The effect is damage + poisoned + saving throw disadvantage. The original save prevents all of that. Failing that save applies the effects for the duration, which lasts as long as the spell says: until some saves or 7 days.
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
What do you think the effect of the spell is?
The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.
When does this poisoned condition end?
The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.
The spell doesn't say exactly the words I said, but the result is the same as what I said: The effect is damage + poisoned + saving throw disadvantage. The original save prevents all of that. Failing that save applies the effects for the duration, which lasts as long as the spell says: until some saves or 7 days.
You can't just make up a spell's effects. A spell does what it says it does. RAW, the spell would last for 7 days if you succeed on the first save, then fail three saves, allowing the spell to be detected by detect magic.
I'm not making up the effects of the spell; I quoted the actual text of the spell. I don't understand what you want, but I don't think I can provide it, since it doesn't seem to have to do with the text.
What happens on a first successful save? What does the spell tell you that happens on a passed initial save?
I'm not making up the effects of the spell; I quoted the actual text of the spell. I don't understand what you want, but I don't think I can provide it, since it doesn't seem to have to do with the text.
What happens on a first failed save? What does the spell tell you that happens on a failed initial save?
The quoted text did not support your point. The original save and the several consecutive saves are separate paragraphs and don't reference each other.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
What is the straw man? The fact that many other spells work this way? So many, in fact, that the group of spells that this happens to fit into has a term: save or suck spells.
Fine then, let's stick to the spell does what it says. What does contagion tell you happens on a successful initial save?
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
On a failed save, the target takes necrotic damage and has the Poisoned condition. While Poisoned, the target has disadvantage on saving throws with made with the ability.
On a successful save, all effects of the spell are negated.
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
On a failed save, the target takes necrotic damage and has the Poisoned condition. While Poisoned, the target has disadvantage on saving throws with made with the ability.
On a successful save, all effects of the spell are negated.
"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you." A spell doesn't need to have effects to exist. It can still be detected using detect magic until the spell ends. Also, as scatterbraind pointed out, if poison is given a different way, the target has disadvantage on saves with the chosen ability.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
On a failed save, the target takes necrotic damage and has the Poisoned condition. While Poisoned, the target has disadvantage on saving throws with made with the ability.
On a successful save, all effects of the spell are negated.
"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you." A spell doesn't need to have effects to exist. It can still be detected using detect magic until the spell ends. Also, as scatterbraind pointed out, if poison is given a different way, the target has disadvantage on saves with the chosen ability.
Yes, I would.
A spell that makes a target poisoned on a failed save then refers to creature affected by the spell, on a failed save, as the poisoned target. It is clear that the context is preventing the spell from being ended by a Paladin expending 5 hit points of Lay on Hands to remove the Poisoned condition or a character casting Protection from Poison after the spell was in effect.
If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur.
On a failed save, the target takes necrotic damage and has the Poisoned condition. While Poisoned, the target has disadvantage on saving throws with made with the ability.
On a successful save, all effects of the spell are negated.
"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you." A spell doesn't need to have effects to exist. It can still be detected using detect magic until the spell ends. Also, as scatterbraind pointed out, if poison is given a different way, the target has disadvantage on saves with the chosen ability.
Yes, I would.
A spell that makes a target poisoned on a failed save then refers to creature affected by the spell, on a failed save, as the poisoned target. It is clear that the context is preventing the spell from being ended by a Paladin expending 5 hit points of Lay on Hands to remove the Poisoned condition or a character casting Protection from Poison after the spell was in effect.
If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur.
The spell explicitly states:
Whenever the Poisoned target receives an effect that would end the Poisoned condition, the target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the Poisoned condition doesn’t end on it.
so I don't know what you're saying about context.
Again you make the claim "If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur." Where is this coming from? Conjecture? I don't see it anywhere in the spell's description.
The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.
This makes no mention of the saving throw or poisoned condition.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"A duck."
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Whenever the Poisoned target receives an effect that would end the Poisoned condition, the target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the Poisoned condition doesn’t end on it.
so I don't know what you're saying about context.
Again you make the claim "If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur." Where is this coming from? Conjecture? I don't see it anywhere in the spell's description.
The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.
This makes no mention of the saving throw or poisoned condition.
The spell explicitly states:
Your touch inflicts a magical contagion. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition.
That establishes context. Every other effect is related to effects while Poisoned or ending the Poisoned condition. Everything in the spell description is telling you what happens on a failed save.
If you succeed on the initial save, you do not gain the Poisoned condition. If they succeeded on the save, you do not make them poisoned so the final paragraph referring to "the poisoned target" doesn't even make sense as applying to them. They are the "target". "Poisoned target" only describes the target who failed the initial save.
[spells]Thunderwave[/spells}
You unleash a wave of thunderous energy. Each creature in a 15-foot Cube originating from you makes a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d8 Thunder damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you. On a successful save, a creature takes half as much damage only.
Thunderwave has effects on a failed save and on a successful save.
Contagion doesn't have that text. I only tells you what happens on a failed save. Therefore, nothing happens on a successful save.
A spell with a save must tell you what happens to the target on a successful save in order for it to have an effect on a target that succeeds on the save.
The first paragraph states that you must succeed the save or something bad happens: „Your touch inflicts a magical contagion. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.“ Therefore nothing should happen if you succeed the save. But in the second paragraph it says that the target of the spell must repeat the saving throw to not suffer any effects: „The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.“ So my question is: Does nothing happen at all if you succeed the initial saving throw, or is the second part still taking place?
It appears that if you succeed on the first save, but then fail on three after, the spell lasts for 7 days doing literally nothing.
Extended signature
The way I read it:
A creature that fails the initial save is affected by poisoned and has disadvantage on saves of the caster's choice. This is the bit that lasts for the duration: either until 3 EoT saves are made or for 7 days after 3 EoT saves are failed. A creature that succeeds the first save is not affected in the first place -- the duration of the spell is until the condition ends either by saves (including the initial one) or for 7 days.
Contagion. Where does it say that? (emphasis mine)
Extended signature
This is a bit ambiguous, but that second effect happens regardless of the initial save. The target has more trouble overcoming con-based poison effects until they clear the 3 saves. So to be effective, this spell would be used first and then followed up with other poison spells/effects.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
What do you think the effect of the spell is?
When does this poisoned condition end?
The spell doesn't say exactly the words I said, but the result is the same as what I said: The effect is damage + poisoned + saving throw disadvantage. The original save prevents all of that. Failing that save applies the effects for the duration, which lasts as long as the spell says: until some saves or 7 days.
You can't just make up a spell's effects. A spell does what it says it does. RAW, the spell would last for 7 days if you succeed on the first save, then fail three saves, allowing the spell to be detected by detect magic.
Extended signature
I'm not making up the effects of the spell; I quoted the actual text of the spell. I don't understand what you want, but I don't think I can provide it, since it doesn't seem to have to do with the text.
What happens on a first successful save? What does the spell tell you that happens on a passed initial save?
The quoted text did not support your point. The original save and the several consecutive saves are separate paragraphs and don't reference each other.
Extended signature
I'm sorry, I made a mistake. What happens on an initial passed save?
Here's an analogy: What happens on a successful save on compelled duel? Does it last for the duration?
That's a straw man argument.
Extended signature
What is the straw man? The fact that many other spells work this way? So many, in fact, that the group of spells that this happens to fit into has a term: save or suck spells.
Fine then, let's stick to the spell does what it says. What does contagion tell you happens on a successful initial save?
On a failed save, the target takes necrotic damage and has the Poisoned condition. While Poisoned, the target has disadvantage on saving throws with made with the ability.
On a successful save, all effects of the spell are negated.
How to add Tooltips.
"You'd like to think that, wouldn't you." A spell doesn't need to have effects to exist. It can still be detected using detect magic until the spell ends. Also, as scatterbraind pointed out, if poison is given a different way, the target has disadvantage on saves with the chosen ability.
Extended signature
Nah. there's no proof for any of that in any of the game.
Yes, I would.
A spell that makes a target poisoned on a failed save then refers to creature affected by the spell, on a failed save, as the poisoned target. It is clear that the context is preventing the spell from being ended by a Paladin expending 5 hit points of Lay on Hands to remove the Poisoned condition or a character casting Protection from Poison after the spell was in effect.
If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur.
How to add Tooltips.
Just a reminder that the rules say that spells actually detail success and failure.
The spell explicitly states:
so I don't know what you're saying about context.
Again you make the claim "If you succeed on the first save, you are never poisoned and none of the other effects occur." Where is this coming from? Conjecture? I don't see it anywhere in the spell's description.
This makes no mention of the saving throw or poisoned condition.
Extended signature
The spell explicitly states:
That establishes context. Every other effect is related to effects while Poisoned or ending the Poisoned condition. Everything in the spell description is telling you what happens on a failed save.
If you succeed on the initial save, you do not gain the Poisoned condition. If they succeeded on the save, you do not make them poisoned so the final paragraph referring to "the poisoned target" doesn't even make sense as applying to them. They are the "target". "Poisoned target" only describes the target who failed the initial save.
[spells]Thunderwave[/spells}
Thunderwave has effects on a failed save and on a successful save.
Contagion doesn't have that text. I only tells you what happens on a failed save. Therefore, nothing happens on a successful save.
A spell with a save must tell you what happens to the target on a successful save in order for it to have an effect on a target that succeeds on the save.
How to add Tooltips.