As the title says: can you multiclass in the same class? For example become an eldritch knight fighter, when you're already a battle master fighter or a thief rogue when you are already an assassin rogue? Would be really interestin to know.
So I keep seeing the same statement being the Only retort ever given, but there is a fine clue into how go about doing it.
OPTION. You have the Option of going into a new class.
So as writ, there is no reason to Not play a Wizard of two or more Domains of study,or a Rogue who specializes as both a Trickster and an Assassin.
You're specializing a different subCLASS.
You've already studied in the class once, so the base features are out of reach to repeats (unless said feature states it is able to be taking multiple times((if you match the prerequisites))
So really. I'm starting to think that the people who say No, are people whom deem it OP. Yet I haven't met a DM who cannot be talked to an understanding of the rules as writ, it is an Option to choose a different class.
Now if you have the Exp and level capable of Multiclassing, who can deny you that(I mean, if your DM says Multiclassing is a No, well..it's a No.)
So yea, if you're level 10 and want 3 levels in Wizardry Abjuration, 3 levels in Conjuration, and 4 levels in Necromancy
Well you've already studied the basics of Wizardry, so the base stats are not redone, your specializing in different studies of Wizardry, which in and of itself is a DIFFERENT CLASS.
Wowsers. I don't understand how all that seems undoable.
A different subclass is not a new class. Per the rules, as Mellie and Bobob pointed out, this is not possible.
As a DM, I would not allow multiclassing into the same class with a different sub. I would allow a homebrew subclass that pulls in bits and pieces of each that thematically fits your concept however. Or homebrew feats that pull stuff in as well.
If anything, same class multiclassing would be under-powered.
Your Wizard: Abjuration 3, Conjuration 3, Necromancy 4 would miss out on the level 6 and level 10 school abilities. You would know lots of cantrips. And for regular spells would be terrible, multiclass spellcasters count their classes together to determine slots, and separate for preparing them. Since you are treating the different subclass as a new class, while you have 4/3/3/3/2 slots available, you can only prepare spells from your spellbook up to 2nd level and can only higher level cast to use those slots
A different subclass is not a new class. Per the rules, as Mellie and Bobob pointed out, this is not possible.
As a DM, I would not allow multiclassing into the same class with a different sub. I would allow a homebrew subclass that pulls in bits and pieces of each that thematically fits your concept however. Or homebrew feats that pull stuff in as well.
If anything, same class multiclassing would be under-powered.
Your Wizard: Abjuration 3, Conjuration 3, Necromancy 4 would miss out on the level 6 and level 10 school abilities. You would know lots of cantrips. And for regular spells would be terrible, multiclass spellcasters count their classes together to determine slots, and separate for preparing them. Since you are treating the different subclass as a new class, while you have 4/3/3/3/2 slots available, you can only prepare spells from your spellbook up to 2nd level and can only higher level cast to use those slots
While we're discussing things that are not at all supported by the rules as written and thus homebrewing everything, that is not the way I'd do "same-class multiclassing," because it does create really terrible characters since so many features are duplicated and thus wasted. What I'd do is only give the player an "option" on levels for which they get a subclass feature. So the second time they get a subclass feature, they choose the second feature of their original subclass, or the first feature of a second. Third time, they can get the second feature of either of those, etc.
My instinct is that a lot of subclasses are pretty frontloaded, so this might create characters who are too powerful, but it makes a lot more sense to me than treating each subclass as a distinct instance of the base class with its own discrete progression.
That said, my actual solution is the same as yours: disallow it, homebrew a single subclass that fits the player's idea for their character.
So I keep seeing the same statement being the Only retort ever given, but there is a fine clue into how go about doing it.
OPTION. You have the Option of going into a new class.
So as writ, there is no reason to Not play a Wizard of two or more Domains of study,or a Rogue who specializes as both a Trickster and an Assassin.
You're specializing a different subCLASS.
The first line of Multiclassing: "Multiclassing allows you to gain levels in multiple classes."
You contend that a subclass is the same as a class, this is not accurate. When you look at the character creation section of the PHB it walks you through the process, in there the second step is "Choose a Class". The choice of class is described "Class broadly describes a character’s vocation...", which implies that the subclass is a specialization rather than a broad description. This is further supported by the last line in Chapter 3 where it states: "Twelve classes—listed in the Classes table—are found in almost every D&D world and define the spectrum of typical adventurers". Then it is doubly reenforced by two matching tables, one on page 45, listing a brief summary of the classes, and on page 163 where it lists the prerequisite to each class available to multiclass into. Which is also exampled on page 163 in the line "For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher". There is no way to multiclass into a subclass of the same class, the PHB does a good job at supporting this view.
Unlike Pathfinder that allows you to have more then one subclass in the same class as long that their class feats doesn't overlap at the same levels you acquire them( in PF subclass features are never at the same levels, like in DnD where its always lvl3,6,10,14, some subclasses gaina feature at lvl3 while an other of the same class gains it at lvl 4 or 5 etc)
Like Sagatympana said, if you want to homebrew this, you can always have the option to have a "talent tree" or "choose your feature" option.
To continue with the Fighter example, at lvl 7 you must choose between War Magic from the EK OR Know your enemy from the BM.( to be fair it would be a no brainer, since the Battle Master lvl7 feature is meh at best...)
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I think we are forgetting that DnD is a game of creativity and honestly the rules are not meant to be followed to a tee. There are many interpretations of rules that allow DMs and adventurers alike to create worlds and people. So instead of multiclassing in the same class, why not just create an entirely new Class to multiclass with that just so happens to be exactly like wizard or rogue and just change the name or something. It really doesn't matter, if someone wants to multiclass with the same class let'em, otherwise there are many ways around it.
As has been stated exhaustively by this point, you cannot. However, with this in mind, a while back, a few of us helped another poster workshop a feat that would let you pick an ability from another subclass in your own class. It's called Feature Savant. Take a look if you're interested.
It’s a hard no RAW, and for good reason. Have a Warlock take lvl 1 3 times to get 6 spell slots for a short rest, or a rogue with expertise in every skill? Super OP and is nowhere near a judgement call, just a hard no RAW.
So I keep seeing the same statement being the Only retort ever given, but there is a fine clue into how go about doing it.
OPTION. You have the Option of going into a new class.
So as writ, there is no reason to Not play a Wizard of two or more Domains of study,or a Rogue who specializes as both a Trickster and an Assassin.
You're specializing a different subCLASS.
You've already studied in the class once, so the base features are out of reach to repeats (unless said feature states it is able to be taking multiple times((if you match the prerequisites))
So really. I'm starting to think that the people who say No, are people whom deem it OP. Yet I haven't met a DM who cannot be talked to an understanding of the rules as writ, it is an Option to choose a different class.
Now if you have the Exp and level capable of Multiclassing, who can deny you that(I mean, if your DM says Multiclassing is a No, well..it's a No.)
So yea, if you're level 10 and want 3 levels in Wizardry Abjuration, 3 levels in Conjuration, and 4 levels in Necromancy
Well you've already studied the basics of Wizardry, so the base stats are not redone, your specializing in different studies of Wizardry, which in and of itself is a DIFFERENT CLASS.
Wowsers. I don't understand how all that seems undoable.
A Rogue Assassin + Soul Knife would say "Hi". Also, you get the Subclass Abilities based on your Class Level not your Subclass Level, so in the aforementioned [Soul Knife Assassin] they would get all of the Assassin abilities & all of the Soul Knife abilities.
I think it would make sense if you could mc into a different subclass. Could you imagine a rocket scientist deciding to take an interest in bodybuilding, instead of literally any other field of science.
Here's my situation: My level 8 Battle Master Fighter survived Horde Of The Dragon Queen. We're going on to Rise of Tiamat and I am continuing with him. He's frikin loved by the Harper's at this point (though the feelings aren't mutual) so.... My plan, as much for narrative than anything was to snag 3 new Fighter levels in pursuit of Champion, primarily for the improved critical, then back at Battle Master.
The Hit Die stay the same, the ONLY thing I'm gaining here is the improved critical. I really don't understand how that's "broken".
Also, considering how balanced the classes are it's the same with every other class as well. Low level benefits don't stack, you wouldn't have double the spell slots, just like a Cleric/Warlock doesn't have all maxed level slots. There's separation there. As such my fighter wouldn't gain double second wind and action surge. It's literally just the subclass feature.
I wouldn't even expect to grab the extra fighting style.... Though 25/26 AC at level 11 looks really good to me.
I know there's no convincing the RAW guys but I feel like the right answer here is to simply NOT let abilities stack and avoid the whole sandwiching of subclasses into a Homebrew travesty that doesn't make naritive sense.
So lets say you do this. At what levels do you get your other subclass features? Is it like multi classing where you're level 13 before you get your improved combat superiority? And level 18 before you get your Battle master capstone? What is the down side to multi subclassing? Why not just go 3 levels sub class, 3 levels different sub class, repeat till your a level 18 fighter with 6 subclasses and all the benefits that come from each one?
Here's my situation: My level 8 Battle Master Fighter survived Horde Of The Dragon Queen. We're going on to Rise of Tiamat and I am continuing with him. He's frikin loved by the Harper's at this point (though the feelings aren't mutual) so.... My plan, as much for narrative than anything was to snag 3 new Fighter levels in pursuit of Champion, primarily for the improved critical, then back at Battle Master.
Like I said - you can do that. Make a homebrew copy of Battle Master and move Improved Combat Superiority (d10) to 13 - move Relentless to 18 and remove Improved Combat Superiority (d12). Then add in Champion's Improved Critical to level 11 or 12. That assumes you decided to start getting Champion at 9 or 10.
You've basically accomplished exactly what you wanted.
Yeah that would be the plan, wait till I get the increased superiority die then take the champion dip. I'd be a Ftr10/Ftr3 no reason to Homebrew, just say "Identical abilities don't stack" and be done with it.
As for why not go FtrX/FtrX/FtrX/FtrX/etc... I don't see any reason beyond narrative not to.
That little asterisk of "Identical abilities don't stack" just saves loads of extra effort in my opinion.
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As the title says: can you multiclass in the same class? For example become an eldritch knight fighter, when you're already a battle master fighter or a thief rogue when you are already an assassin rogue? Would be really interestin to know.
By the rules you cannot. The rules for multiclassing state:
A subclass is not a new class. As a bonus, here's a link to a Sage Advice clarifying the same thing.
So I keep seeing the same statement being the Only retort ever given, but there is a fine clue into how go about doing it.
OPTION. You have the Option of going into a new class.
So as writ, there is no reason to Not play a Wizard of two or more Domains of study,or a Rogue who specializes as both a Trickster and an Assassin.
You're specializing a different subCLASS.
You've already studied in the class once, so the base features are out of reach to repeats (unless said feature states it is able to be taking multiple times((if you match the prerequisites))
So really. I'm starting to think that the people who say No, are people whom deem it OP. Yet I haven't met a DM who cannot be talked to an understanding of the rules as writ, it is an Option to choose a different class.
Now if you have the Exp and level capable of Multiclassing, who can deny you that(I mean, if your DM says Multiclassing is a No, well..it's a No.)
So yea, if you're level 10 and want 3 levels in Wizardry Abjuration, 3 levels in Conjuration, and 4 levels in Necromancy
Well you've already studied the basics of Wizardry, so the base stats are not redone, your specializing in different studies of Wizardry, which in and of itself is a DIFFERENT CLASS.
Wowsers. I don't understand how all that seems undoable.
It says you have the option to take a level in a new class, so the options are really just-
Option 1: Take a continued level in one of your classes
Option 2: Multiclass into a different class
When it says you have the option, it only gives you the option of another class, it doesn't state that the same class is an option.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
A different subclass is not a new class. Per the rules, as Mellie and Bobob pointed out, this is not possible.
As a DM, I would not allow multiclassing into the same class with a different sub. I would allow a homebrew subclass that pulls in bits and pieces of each that thematically fits your concept however. Or homebrew feats that pull stuff in as well.
If anything, same class multiclassing would be under-powered.
Your Wizard: Abjuration 3, Conjuration 3, Necromancy 4 would miss out on the level 6 and level 10 school abilities. You would know lots of cantrips. And for regular spells would be terrible, multiclass spellcasters count their classes together to determine slots, and separate for preparing them. Since you are treating the different subclass as a new class, while you have 4/3/3/3/2 slots available, you can only prepare spells from your spellbook up to 2nd level and can only higher level cast to use those slots
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While we're discussing things that are not at all supported by the rules as written and thus homebrewing everything, that is not the way I'd do "same-class multiclassing," because it does create really terrible characters since so many features are duplicated and thus wasted. What I'd do is only give the player an "option" on levels for which they get a subclass feature. So the second time they get a subclass feature, they choose the second feature of their original subclass, or the first feature of a second. Third time, they can get the second feature of either of those, etc.
My instinct is that a lot of subclasses are pretty frontloaded, so this might create characters who are too powerful, but it makes a lot more sense to me than treating each subclass as a distinct instance of the base class with its own discrete progression.
That said, my actual solution is the same as yours: disallow it, homebrew a single subclass that fits the player's idea for their character.
The first line of Multiclassing: "Multiclassing allows you to gain levels in multiple classes."
You contend that a subclass is the same as a class, this is not accurate. When you look at the character creation section of the PHB it walks you through the process, in there the second step is "Choose a Class". The choice of class is described "Class broadly describes a character’s vocation...", which implies that the subclass is a specialization rather than a broad description. This is further supported by the last line in Chapter 3 where it states: "Twelve classes—listed in the Classes table—are found in almost every D&D world and define the spectrum of typical adventurers". Then it is doubly reenforced by two matching tables, one on page 45, listing a brief summary of the classes, and on page 163 where it lists the prerequisite to each class available to multiclass into. Which is also exampled on page 163 in the line "For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher". There is no way to multiclass into a subclass of the same class, the PHB does a good job at supporting this view.
Unlike Pathfinder that allows you to have more then one subclass in the same class as long that their class feats doesn't overlap at the same levels you acquire them( in PF subclass features are never at the same levels, like in DnD where its always lvl3,6,10,14, some subclasses gaina feature at lvl3 while an other of the same class gains it at lvl 4 or 5 etc)
Like Sagatympana said, if you want to homebrew this, you can always have the option to have a "talent tree" or "choose your feature" option.
To continue with the Fighter example, at lvl 7 you must choose between War Magic from the EK OR Know your enemy from the BM.( to be fair it would be a no brainer, since the Battle Master lvl7 feature is meh at best...)
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I think we are forgetting that DnD is a game of creativity and honestly the rules are not meant to be followed to a tee. There are many interpretations of rules that allow DMs and adventurers alike to create worlds and people. So instead of multiclassing in the same class, why not just create an entirely new Class to multiclass with that just so happens to be exactly like wizard or rogue and just change the name or something. It really doesn't matter, if someone wants to multiclass with the same class let'em, otherwise there are many ways around it.
As has been stated exhaustively by this point, you cannot. However, with this in mind, a while back, a few of us helped another poster workshop a feat that would let you pick an ability from another subclass in your own class. It's called Feature Savant. Take a look if you're interested.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I wouldn't say exhaustively, this thread is about 7 months old. Definitely a necropost.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
It’s a hard no RAW, and for good reason. Have a Warlock take lvl 1 3 times to get 6 spell slots for a short rest, or a rogue with expertise in every skill? Super OP and is nowhere near a judgement call, just a hard no RAW.
A Rogue Assassin + Soul Knife would say "Hi". Also, you get the Subclass Abilities based on your Class Level not your Subclass Level, so in the aforementioned [Soul Knife Assassin] they would get all of the Assassin abilities & all of the Soul Knife abilities.
I think it would make sense if you could mc into a different subclass. Could you imagine a rocket scientist deciding to take an interest in bodybuilding, instead of literally any other field of science.
nah, but it would be really cool if we could
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You can do that - just not via multiclassing. Homebrew a new subclass which takes elements of other subclasses.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Here's my situation: My level 8 Battle Master Fighter survived Horde Of The Dragon Queen. We're going on to Rise of Tiamat and I am continuing with him. He's frikin loved by the Harper's at this point (though the feelings aren't mutual) so.... My plan, as much for narrative than anything was to snag 3 new Fighter levels in pursuit of Champion, primarily for the improved critical, then back at Battle Master.
The Hit Die stay the same, the ONLY thing I'm gaining here is the improved critical. I really don't understand how that's "broken".
Also, considering how balanced the classes are it's the same with every other class as well. Low level benefits don't stack, you wouldn't have double the spell slots, just like a Cleric/Warlock doesn't have all maxed level slots. There's separation there. As such my fighter wouldn't gain double second wind and action surge. It's literally just the subclass feature.
I wouldn't even expect to grab the extra fighting style.... Though 25/26 AC at level 11 looks really good to me.
I know there's no convincing the RAW guys but I feel like the right answer here is to simply NOT let abilities stack and avoid the whole sandwiching of subclasses into a Homebrew travesty that doesn't make naritive sense.
So lets say you do this. At what levels do you get your other subclass features? Is it like multi classing where you're level 13 before you get your improved combat superiority? And level 18 before you get your Battle master capstone? What is the down side to multi subclassing? Why not just go 3 levels sub class, 3 levels different sub class, repeat till your a level 18 fighter with 6 subclasses and all the benefits that come from each one?
Like I said - you can do that. Make a homebrew copy of Battle Master and move Improved Combat Superiority (d10) to 13 - move Relentless to 18 and remove Improved Combat Superiority (d12). Then add in Champion's Improved Critical to level 11 or 12. That assumes you decided to start getting Champion at 9 or 10.
You've basically accomplished exactly what you wanted.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Yeah that would be the plan, wait till I get the increased superiority die then take the champion dip. I'd be a Ftr10/Ftr3 no reason to Homebrew, just say "Identical abilities don't stack" and be done with it.
As for why not go FtrX/FtrX/FtrX/FtrX/etc... I don't see any reason beyond narrative not to.
That little asterisk of "Identical abilities don't stack" just saves loads of extra effort in my opinion.