In my opinion, Tritons should have Darkvision. Even if it is only operable underwater, there is no way that they could survive in the depths of the ocean without being able to see without magical light.
I agreed. I am currently preparing a triton character for play in a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign. The DM has permitted me to play an Artificer, so at 2nd level I WILL be taking the Goggles of the Night infusion. :)
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I am allowing both Triton and Tabaxi to have Darkvision in my campaign. Cat people - cats see in the dark....Fish people - see in the dark ocean....it's just common sense. I just think it should be official ruling as well.
If your DM/you allows homebrew and this fits your character, I have a homebrew Triton variant, the Triton Outcast. You lose Control Air and Water and Emissary of the Sea to gain Darkvision and the lizardfolk Scavenger trait.
I am allowing both Triton and Tabaxi to have Darkvision in my campaign. Cat people - cats see in the dark....Fish people - see in the dark ocean....it's just common sense. I just think it should be official ruling as well.
Not all fish see in the dark. It definitely makes more sense for tabaxi to have darkvision than it is for triton to have darkvision, in a strictly animal-human hybrid sense.
I don't like the Triton's Control Air and Water trait in the slightest. They're from the Elemental Plane of Water, Gust of Wind doesn't make any sense at all and Wall of Water is 99% useless under water. Not to mention Fog Cloud, although that can be reflavored to make it look like the ink that squids use to escape when they're in danger.
I'm going to run Saltmarsh very shortly and if anyone in my campaign runs a Triton I'll figure out substitutions for those items to replace them with spells that make sense for a race that spends 90% or more of it's time under water but that aren't over powered either. That's going to be a hard balancing act.
I am allowing both Triton and Tabaxi to have Darkvision in my campaign. Cat people - cats see in the dark....Fish people - see in the dark ocean....it's just common sense. I just think it should be official ruling as well.
Not all fish see in the dark. It definitely makes more sense for tabaxi to have darkvision than it is for triton to have darkvision, in a strictly animal-human hybrid sense.
Cosidering that Triton's are adapted to withstand the pressures of the deepest waters, I was very much surprised they didn't get Darkvision . . .
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Hmmm...cats also don't get Darkvision though. Neither do panthers. So is granting Darkvision to Tabaxi kind of overdoing it?
I do agree, however, that Triton should have darkvision if, according to D&D lore, they often live in the deep sea.
@Tim Unfortunately, very few spells in 5th edition exist to cover underwater adventuring. I was just thinking about this the other day when thinking about what a Sahuagin Ranger would be able to cast that is useful underwater. Spells involving arrows are useless. Guardian of Nature is useless. Etc.
Perhaps there is a book from 2nd edition or 3.5 edition that would be useful.
Hmmm...cats also don't get Darkvision though. Neither do panthers. So is granting Darkvision to Tabaxi kind of overdoing it?
I do agree, however, that Triton should have darkvision if, according to D&D lore, they often live in the deep sea.
@Tim Unfortunately, very few spells in 5th edition exist to cover underwater adventuring. I was just thinking about this the other day when thinking about what a Sahuagin Ranger would be able to cast that is useful underwater. Spells involving arrows are useless. Guardian of Nature is useless. Etc.
Perhaps there is a book from 2nd edition or 3.5 edition that would be useful.
I’m thinking giving them Darkvision so they can see in the depths of the ocean in place of Gust of Wind, keep Fog Cloud even though I don’t really like it, and Tidal Wave in place of Wall of Water. The 2 spells can both be cast under water, but the secondary effect of Tidal Wave won’t happen, and Darkvision makes much more sense than Gust of Wind does.
@Tim, you're saying give them permenant Darkvision or Darkvision as in the spell?
Also, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a spell similar to Maximilien's Earthen Grasp that uses only water. LIke a small little whirlpool. Somebody should totes homebrew that.
I’m thinking giving them Darkvision so they can see in the depths of the ocean in place of Gust of Wind, keep Fog Cloud even though I don’t really like it, and Tidal Wave in place of Wall of Water. The 2 spells can both be cast under water, but the secondary effect of Tidal Wave won’t happen, and Darkvision makes much more sense than Gust of Wind does.
I think you can easily reflavor Fog Cloud as a cloud of bubbles as well.
Thinking about underwater creatures, I remembered something from Biology class. Most fish have a line that runs lateral to their bodies that helps them detect subtle changes to the movement of water. This is a large part of what allows them to coordinate their movements while in a school. This could be reskinned as a form of Tremor Sense that only works in a large volume of water. Not sure I would give this to all Tritons, but it Would fit from a world-building perspective since underwater vision generally not as useful as vision when surrounded by air due to how frequently water is murky from...various substances... in it.
@Tim, you're saying give them permenant Darkvision or Darkvision as in the spell?
Also, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a spell similar to Maximilien's Earthen Grasp that uses only water. LIke a small little whirlpool. Somebody should totes homebrew that.
I do agree that Triton should have Darkvision or some way to sense things underwater. They are described as being in the "deep sea" which is pitch black. They have no means of any kind to sense their environment enough for navigation. So, Tritons are basically useless in their home environment? A very ill-thought-out race.
I love the idea of underwater beings and so I use my own homebrew Undine. After playtesting it there does not appear to any issues with it and serves as the nice way to have a water-oriented race/character without being "yet another type of Elf" (and Sea Elves are rather lacklustre too, in my opinion).
I also don't understand why Sea Elves get proficiency with Tridents but Tritons don't? O.o
@Tim, you're saying give them permenant Darkvision or Darkvision as in the spell?
Also, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a spell similar to Maximilien's Earthen Grasp that uses only water. LIke a small little whirlpool. Somebody should totes homebrew that.
But the mechanics of Watery Sphere don't make much sense if you and everyone else is Already surrounded by water. What makes the boundaries of the sphere different from any other area of water? And if your character is adapted to underwater life, like a Triton, Undine, or Sahuagin, you have a full swim speed. Getting out of a Watery Sphere should be no trouble, from a thematic perspective.
I also don't understand why Sea Elves get proficiency with Tridents but Tritons don't? O.o
Yes, that is very peculiar. I feel like the team that worked on adapting Tritons to 5th ed only thought about how it would function in an amphibious campaign, like Ghosts of Salt Marsh rather than in a fully aquatic one. I understand why they would do that from a design perspective since so few materials exist for 100% underwater campaigns, but it makes no sense in terms of world-building and believability.
@Tim, you're saying give them permenant Darkvision or Darkvision as in the spell?
Also, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a spell similar to Maximilien's Earthen Grasp that uses only water. LIke a small little whirlpool. Somebody should totes homebrew that.
But the mechanics of Watery Sphere don't make much sense if you and everyone else is Already surrounded by water. What makes the boundaries of the sphere different from any other area of water? And if your character is adapted to underwater life, like a Triton, Undine, or Sahuagin, you have a full swim speed. Getting out of a Watery Sphere should be no trouble, from a thematic perspective.
It works the same underwater, the water in the sphere is controlled: any creature can swim through water, after all, but all creatures within that controlled sphere still need to make Strength saving throws and get forcibly moved around and restrained which grants advantage to hits against it and disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws. It offers quite a lot and being underwater changes nothing.
I agree that it's a good spell in general and by RAW, of course it affects creatures on land the same as it does in water. I'm just not sure that it makes thematic sense that creatures with 100% swim speed don't get some kind of advantage to getting out of it. That might just be a quibble, but I also think in suggests a terrestrial bias that we have as humans that a spell that would limit a terrestial creature would have the exact same effect it would have on an aquatic one.
I also still think there should be a less powerful, lower level version of Watery Sphere that only affects one creature or one 5'X5' area.
I agree that it's a good spell in general and by RAW, of course it affects creatures on land the same as it does in water. I'm just not sure that it makes thematic sense that creatures with 100% swim speed don't get some kind of advantage to getting out of it. That might just be a quibble, but I also think in suggests a terrestrial bias that we have as humans that a spell that would limit a terrestial creature would have the exact same effect it would have on an aquatic one.
I also still think there should be a less powerful, lower level version of Watery Sphere that only affects one creature or one 5'X5' area.
Nothing prevents reflavouring Earthen Hand to be magically pressurised water instead of Earth. Changes nothing mechanically but still fits thematically. The spells are made with the expectation players and DMs would refluff as needed (otherwise the earthen hand cannot be used inside a home, even though it actually can - in our games we just flavour it that the magic draws the earth up and displaces the carpets and the like which are returned to normal when the hand moves away or when the spell ends). D&D 5th Edition has become so popular for the encouragement in refluffing/reskinning/homebrewing and this is why there are no "alternate varieties" of spells that could normally have such and why so many finer aspects of ruling is left vague: it's not a design fault, it's deliberate as it is that vagueness which gives room for players and DM to adjust and alter things as they need, it's a built-in wriggle-room so you don't have to worry about balance when you make small adjustments. You can interpret a ruling/etc more specifically and create realisms (like your swim speed for getting out of watery sphere more easily) for more realistic gameplays or you can leave as is for more "it's the magic" explanations for higher-fantasy. It also makes DMing much easier, in my opinion.
I love homebrewing in 5th. I despised it in 3.5 (which has a lot stricter and realistic rules/magic).
Yeah, I like that about 5th edition... as a DM. As a player, though, it bothers me sometimes when I want to do something that makes thematic sense, but the DM just swats it down purely b/c it isn't RAW. (For context, see my post about Wildshaped Beast senses, size, and jumping out of a tower in the Rules section of the Forum.) As a DM, you design the world, so you make the rules. As a player, if you're not friends with the DM or the DM is too busy with other stuff, it can get frustrating trying to explain this stuff, both during and between game sessions.
In my opinion, Tritons should have Darkvision. Even if it is only operable underwater, there is no way that they could survive in the depths of the ocean without being able to see without magical light.
Opinions?
I agreed. I am currently preparing a triton character for play in a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign. The DM has permitted me to play an Artificer, so at 2nd level I WILL be taking the Goggles of the Night infusion. :)
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I am allowing both Triton and Tabaxi to have Darkvision in my campaign. Cat people - cats see in the dark....Fish people - see in the dark ocean....it's just common sense. I just think it should be official ruling as well.
If your DM/you allows homebrew and this fits your character, I have a homebrew Triton variant, the Triton Outcast. You lose Control Air and Water and Emissary of the Sea to gain Darkvision and the lizardfolk Scavenger trait.
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Not all fish see in the dark. It definitely makes more sense for tabaxi to have darkvision than it is for triton to have darkvision, in a strictly animal-human hybrid sense.
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I don't like the Triton's Control Air and Water trait in the slightest. They're from the Elemental Plane of Water, Gust of Wind doesn't make any sense at all and Wall of Water is 99% useless under water. Not to mention Fog Cloud, although that can be reflavored to make it look like the ink that squids use to escape when they're in danger.
I'm going to run Saltmarsh very shortly and if anyone in my campaign runs a Triton I'll figure out substitutions for those items to replace them with spells that make sense for a race that spends 90% or more of it's time under water but that aren't over powered either. That's going to be a hard balancing act.
Professional computer geek
Cosidering that Triton's are adapted to withstand the pressures of the deepest waters, I was very much surprised they didn't get Darkvision . . .
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Hmmm...cats also don't get Darkvision though. Neither do panthers. So is granting Darkvision to Tabaxi kind of overdoing it?
I do agree, however, that Triton should have darkvision if, according to D&D lore, they often live in the deep sea.
@Tim Unfortunately, very few spells in 5th edition exist to cover underwater adventuring. I was just thinking about this the other day when thinking about what a Sahuagin Ranger would be able to cast that is useful underwater. Spells involving arrows are useless. Guardian of Nature is useless. Etc.
Perhaps there is a book from 2nd edition or 3.5 edition that would be useful.
Tabaxi do have Darkvision.
I’m thinking giving them Darkvision so they can see in the depths of the ocean in place of Gust of Wind, keep Fog Cloud even though I don’t really like it, and Tidal Wave in place of Wall of Water. The 2 spells can both be cast under water, but the secondary effect of Tidal Wave won’t happen, and Darkvision makes much more sense than Gust of Wind does.
Professional computer geek
@Tim, you're saying give them permenant Darkvision or Darkvision as in the spell?
Also, I'm a little surprised that there isn't a spell similar to Maximilien's Earthen Grasp that uses only water. LIke a small little whirlpool. Somebody should totes homebrew that.
Permanent Darkvision, not the spell. It’s permanent instead of 8 hours, but it only affects them, not someone else.
Professional computer geek
I think you can easily reflavor Fog Cloud as a cloud of bubbles as well.
Thinking about underwater creatures, I remembered something from Biology class. Most fish have a line that runs lateral to their bodies that helps them detect subtle changes to the movement of water. This is a large part of what allows them to coordinate their movements while in a school. This could be reskinned as a form of Tremor Sense that only works in a large volume of water. Not sure I would give this to all Tritons, but it Would fit from a world-building perspective since underwater vision generally not as useful as vision when surrounded by air due to how frequently water is murky from...various substances... in it.
Watery Sphere
--
I do agree that Triton should have Darkvision or some way to sense things underwater. They are described as being in the "deep sea" which is pitch black. They have no means of any kind to sense their environment enough for navigation. So, Tritons are basically useless in their home environment? A very ill-thought-out race.
I love the idea of underwater beings and so I use my own homebrew Undine. After playtesting it there does not appear to any issues with it and serves as the nice way to have a water-oriented race/character without being "yet another type of Elf" (and Sea Elves are rather lacklustre too, in my opinion).
I also don't understand why Sea Elves get proficiency with Tridents but Tritons don't? O.o
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But the mechanics of Watery Sphere don't make much sense if you and everyone else is Already surrounded by water. What makes the boundaries of the sphere different from any other area of water? And if your character is adapted to underwater life, like a Triton, Undine, or Sahuagin, you have a full swim speed. Getting out of a Watery Sphere should be no trouble, from a thematic perspective.
Yes, that is very peculiar. I feel like the team that worked on adapting Tritons to 5th ed only thought about how it would function in an amphibious campaign, like Ghosts of Salt Marsh rather than in a fully aquatic one. I understand why they would do that from a design perspective since so few materials exist for 100% underwater campaigns, but it makes no sense in terms of world-building and believability.
It works the same underwater, the water in the sphere is controlled: any creature can swim through water, after all, but all creatures within that controlled sphere still need to make Strength saving throws and get forcibly moved around and restrained which grants advantage to hits against it and disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws. It offers quite a lot and being underwater changes nothing.
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I agree that it's a good spell in general and by RAW, of course it affects creatures on land the same as it does in water. I'm just not sure that it makes thematic sense that creatures with 100% swim speed don't get some kind of advantage to getting out of it. That might just be a quibble, but I also think in suggests a terrestrial bias that we have as humans that a spell that would limit a terrestial creature would have the exact same effect it would have on an aquatic one.
I also still think there should be a less powerful, lower level version of Watery Sphere that only affects one creature or one 5'X5' area.
I did a similar thing, and just started with Triton, took out the spellcasting and fish talk, added Darvision and the Scavenger from Lizardfolk.
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Nothing prevents reflavouring Earthen Hand to be magically pressurised water instead of Earth. Changes nothing mechanically but still fits thematically. The spells are made with the expectation players and DMs would refluff as needed (otherwise the earthen hand cannot be used inside a home, even though it actually can - in our games we just flavour it that the magic draws the earth up and displaces the carpets and the like which are returned to normal when the hand moves away or when the spell ends). D&D 5th Edition has become so popular for the encouragement in refluffing/reskinning/homebrewing and this is why there are no "alternate varieties" of spells that could normally have such and why so many finer aspects of ruling is left vague: it's not a design fault, it's deliberate as it is that vagueness which gives room for players and DM to adjust and alter things as they need, it's a built-in wriggle-room so you don't have to worry about balance when you make small adjustments. You can interpret a ruling/etc more specifically and create realisms (like your swim speed for getting out of watery sphere more easily) for more realistic gameplays or you can leave as is for more "it's the magic" explanations for higher-fantasy. It also makes DMing much easier, in my opinion.
I love homebrewing in 5th. I despised it in 3.5 (which has a lot stricter and realistic rules/magic).
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
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Yeah, I like that about 5th edition... as a DM. As a player, though, it bothers me sometimes when I want to do something that makes thematic sense, but the DM just swats it down purely b/c it isn't RAW. (For context, see my post about Wildshaped Beast senses, size, and jumping out of a tower in the Rules section of the Forum.) As a DM, you design the world, so you make the rules. As a player, if you're not friends with the DM or the DM is too busy with other stuff, it can get frustrating trying to explain this stuff, both during and between game sessions.