Would you rather start level 1 with a Monk that has,
DEX 18, CON 12, WIS 16 (DEX mod +4, CON +1, WIS +3)
OR
DEX 17, CON 14, WIS 16 (DEX mod +3, CON +2, WIS +3)
I know this is obviously tied to your preferred playstyle and build. But the base implied trade-off here is simple. Personally, this dilemma is tough because I find many feats that I'd like to use, but I recognize the amount of ASI the class demands. SO, I got curious if others find this choice rough or not. :D
EDIT: I have added the wisdom modifiers to the stats, as well closed the gap between DEX scores (modifiers stayed the same)
You will get a lot more from the higher dex than con. Defence wise you are getting a higher AC and lower hit points if you go with Dex over Con but as a monk you are generally better off Avoiding Damage than Absorbing Damage via your hitpoints.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
18 DEX. The 1 HP is going to make less difference than the 1 AC at level 1 because you're mostly going to get targeted with attack rolls. 18 DEX also puts you ahead of the bounded accuracy curve and helps your initiative. Both of which help you killing things before they kill you. This is crucial at first level. Do pad your HP later, though, as 12 CON is on the low side.
Throwing feats on a monk is a bit... Messy. You need your DEX for your attacks and your WIS for your DC's. One option is going variant human/custom lineage and getting a half-feat there. That way, you get a neat ability without being behind on your AS compared to other races. Crusher gives +1 CON and has tactical uses like pushing enemies into bad spots or creating distance without needing to disengage. Shadow Touched gives you a mental ASI (read: WIS), Invisibility to nope the **** out of a fight once a day and you can opt in for False Life to pad your hit points before rolling initiative. Fey Touched is good for the same mental ASI and Hex or Hunter's Mark can ramp up your damage against beefy enough enemies, but monks get plenty movement and can use their BA to disengage so Misty Step is less valuable than on other classes.
I can't do this math without considering the WIS score as well. Monk is a dual-stat class.
Triple, even. Personally it would also depend on what race I picked and a few other options (like the rest of the stats) , but overall I'd probably pick Dex 18 over that extra 1HP.
I think a lot of it will depend on what you are wanting to do, what your party is like, how experienced the other players are, and what you would take with the feat at 4. Those stats are ahead of the curve from a standard array standpoint, so you've got flexibility if you look at it that way. How well everyone else rolled could determine what you need to do: really poor rules rolls could necessitate the dex from an offensive standpoint so that you can take up the slack, low to average rolls may leave you with the desire to take the extra con so that you don't outshine everyone, and everyone rolling well leaves you to choose your roll.
If you are going Kensei so you can be more tanky, the extra con would be helpful (shudder at the necessity...), but pretty much every thing else will want the higher dex for performance.
If you are playing with newer players, the extra con would be my choice and then something like crusher for added control to help out in a pinch without being in the spotlight too much.
I like your angle in this, Jhfffan. And you are right, the stats here are point-buy.
All and all, after the initial direction how the answers came in, I'm surprised that the 14 CON choice wasn't totally overran. But I did presume it would to a certain degree. But 18.5% (as I'm posting this message) from this limited data is enough to warrant me feeling good about my question. I would likely also take the 12 CON option myself, but that's really dependent on the rest of the party.
Character level of the campaign is a factor, as are the feats you hope to take. 18 is better than 17, and Con is kinda unncessary... but if you're looking forward to Skill Expert, or Piercer/Slasher, you might just be setting yourself up for a +1 Stat feat that doesn't really do much for you.
I'm assuming your racial bonuses are already factored into that, but you might want to leave Dex or Wisdom at an odd-number by swapping things around with alternate background (but not both), to better account for +1 Stat feats.
That was exactly what was tempting, but had strong doubts on running first three levels with a +3 DEX mod instead of +4, if I left DEX to 17 instead of getting it to 18 at the expense of CON mod.
Would you rather start level 1 with a Monk that has,
(DEX mod +4, CON +1, WIS +3)
OR
(DEX mod +3, CON +2, WIS +3)
I know this is obviously tied to your preferred playstyle and build. But the base implied trade-off here is simple.
Personally, this dilemma is tough because I find many feats that I'd like to use, but I recognize the amount of ASI the class demands.
SO, I got curious if others find this choice rough or not. :D
EDIT: I have added the wisdom modifiers to the stats, as well closed the gap between DEX scores (modifiers stayed the same)
You will get a lot more from the higher dex than con. Defence wise you are getting a higher AC and lower hit points if you go with Dex over Con but as a monk you are generally better off Avoiding Damage than Absorbing Damage via your hitpoints.
Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPPmyTI0tZ6nM-bzY0IG3ww
I know. That was the implied trade-off which I didn't feel necessary to type out.
I do now see I should've inputted Dex 17 instead of 16, because that's the reason why taking feats was more plausible. My bad.
18 DEX. The 1 HP is going to make less difference than the 1 AC at level 1 because you're mostly going to get targeted with attack rolls. 18 DEX also puts you ahead of the bounded accuracy curve and helps your initiative. Both of which help you killing things before they kill you. This is crucial at first level. Do pad your HP later, though, as 12 CON is on the low side.
Throwing feats on a monk is a bit... Messy. You need your DEX for your attacks and your WIS for your DC's. One option is going variant human/custom lineage and getting a half-feat there. That way, you get a neat ability without being behind on your AS compared to other races. Crusher gives +1 CON and has tactical uses like pushing enemies into bad spots or creating distance without needing to disengage. Shadow Touched gives you a mental ASI (read: WIS), Invisibility to nope the **** out of a fight once a day and you can opt in for False Life to pad your hit points before rolling initiative. Fey Touched is good for the same mental ASI and Hex or Hunter's Mark can ramp up your damage against beefy enough enemies, but monks get plenty movement and can use their BA to disengage so Misty Step is less valuable than on other classes.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
I can't do this math without considering the WIS score as well. Monk is a dual-stat class.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Triple, even. Personally it would also depend on what race I picked and a few other options (like the rest of the stats) , but overall I'd probably pick Dex 18 over that extra 1HP.
I think a lot of it will depend on what you are wanting to do, what your party is like, how experienced the other players are, and what you would take with the feat at 4. Those stats are ahead of the curve from a standard array standpoint, so you've got flexibility if you look at it that way. How well everyone else rolled could determine what you need to do: really poor rules rolls could necessitate the dex from an offensive standpoint so that you can take up the slack, low to average rolls may leave you with the desire to take the extra con so that you don't outshine everyone, and everyone rolling well leaves you to choose your roll.
If you are going Kensei so you can be more tanky, the extra con would be helpful (shudder at the necessity...), but pretty much every thing else will want the higher dex for performance.
If you are playing with newer players, the extra con would be my choice and then something like crusher for added control to help out in a pinch without being in the spotlight too much.
I like your angle in this, Jhfffan. And you are right, the stats here are point-buy.
All and all, after the initial direction how the answers came in, I'm surprised that the 14 CON choice wasn't totally overran. But I did presume it would to a certain degree.
But 18.5% (as I'm posting this message) from this limited data is enough to warrant me feeling good about my question.
I would likely also take the 12 CON option myself, but that's really dependent on the rest of the party.
I really appreciate everyone's input here.
Character level of the campaign is a factor, as are the feats you hope to take. 18 is better than 17, and Con is kinda unncessary... but if you're looking forward to Skill Expert, or Piercer/Slasher, you might just be setting yourself up for a +1 Stat feat that doesn't really do much for you.
I'm assuming your racial bonuses are already factored into that, but you might want to leave Dex or Wisdom at an odd-number by swapping things around with alternate background (but not both), to better account for +1 Stat feats.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That was exactly what was tempting, but had strong doubts on running first three levels with a +3 DEX mod instead of +4, if I left DEX to 17 instead of getting it to 18 at the expense of CON mod.