If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Artificer Level
Spell
3rd
Earth Tremor, Fog Cloud
5th
Darkvision, See Invisibility
9th
Erupting Earth, Fear
13th
Elemental Bane, Polymorph
17th
Hold Monster, Legend Lore
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As an action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind. Using a spell slot of first level or higher, you can enhance your Dragon Cannon for a duration of 10 minutes. During this time you can cast a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon with your action. When you cast this cantrip or use your Wyrm's Breath feature, you may make one attack with your Dragon Cannon as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage using your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities. You gain the following benefits:
When you use the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you now deal 4d6 damage plus your Intelligence modifier damage on hit. The range of your Wyrm's Breath feature increases to 60 feet.
On the turn you activate your Wyrm Shell feature and use a 3rd level spell slot or higher, you can target one additional creature with the cantrip granted by this feature. When you use a 5th level spell slot or higher, you can instead target two additional creatures. These creatures must be within 5 feet of the target of your cantrip.
While wearing your Iron Scales armor, you have a flying speed of 30 feet.
If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Artificer Level
Spell
3rd
Earth Tremor, Fog Cloud
5th
Darkvision, See Invisibility
9th
Erupting Earth, Fear
13th
Elemental Bane, Polymorph
17th
Hold Monster, Legend Lore
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As a bonus action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 + your Intelligence modifier damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind.
You learn a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you take the attack action using your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage through your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities.
When you use the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you now deal 4d6 damage plus your Intelligence modifier damage on hit. The range of your Wyrm's Breath feature increases to 60 feet.
While wearing your Iron Scales armor, you have a flying speed of 30 feet.
Hey there, you good-looking person you, how you doing? You may or may not remember me from my last subclass, and like last time, I'd like to use this thread to set up some context for my goals and process.
Dragons!
Browsing homebrew, I've come across a trend: the draconic sorcerer bloodline is nowhere near enough to sate the community's love for flying, fire breathing god-lizards. I've seen concepts for paladins with draconic vows, barbarian cultists who worship dragons. Heck, If everything makes it out of UA, we'll soon have a dragon monk and ranger!
But you know what I've seen absolutely no one ask for? The one subclass nobody thought was a good idea? Yeah that's right. Today I'm presenting you with the Wyrmforge artificer. Well okay there is one in beyond's homebrew catalogue but bear with me.
My previous subclass was born from a desire to add a mechanical twist to the fairly straightforward barbarian. This time I wanted to on a flavour-first approach to my design process. Here's to hoping it works out.
Concept & Goals:
In the real world, technology often tries to replicate features we see in nature. The aerodynamics of planes being the most famous example. In D&D, where (super)nature has so many amazing innate abilities, wouldn't it make sense to try and capture some of that essence with the artificer's engineering? That's the feel I'm going for. Aesthetically, I've long been fascinated by depictions of dragons in history versus the fantasy styled ones we see more of today. One in particular is the dragon cannon from Myanmar, a cannon shaped like a dragon's head to illustrate this technology's fearsome might (at least before we had more modern firearms). Awesome.
That leaves the mechanical identity. On the one hand, Artificers can do all sorts of things already and are versatile as a result. Running around with vHumans in caves? Goggles of the night, free of charge. Wizard is getting poked while concentrating on a spell? Mind sharpener to the rescue. We, on the other hand, will completely shift focus and embrace our collective inner child: dragon breath go brrr! Let's be real, we like dragons because they're monsters of awe-inspiring might. Copying one should sate our most carnal desire in gameplay: dealing the damage.
The How:
For a complete overview of the subclass, check the spoiler at the top of the post first.
Becoming the Dragon
At 3rd level, we start with the catalyst of it all; the dragon cannon. It is modelled after a light crossbow in most aspects, but lacks the ammunition and loading properties and deals 2d6 damage (there's a math & mechanics section below to to break down the numbers.) Similar to the battlesmith and armorer, you can use your intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls. One of the cool things about dragons in D&D is that there's one representing every element (and poison). On a long rest, you can change the element of your dragon cannon, which will subsequently effect other class features as well.
Speaking of which, you also gain a feature called Wyrm's Breath. This is a limited use breath weapon that you can use as a bonus action. Rather than the more popular cone AoE, I've opted for the under-represented line AoE. This is the blast- and burst option a lot of the numbers will be based around. The additional spell list lacks elemental blast options to compensate.
War Magic Wyrm Shell
Our 3rd level feature gives us an incentive to make weapon attacks, but in order to keep up past level 5 it needs some form of scaling. Extra attack is cool, but you know what I think is even cooler? War Magic. Since this fits with the arcane technology flavour and I've already dipped into a focus that's basically ranged spell attacks, this feature doubles down on those aspects at level 5. You learn a cantrip of your dragon cannon's damage type and when you take the attack action, you can cast it as a bonus action.
This however, presents one problem. There's only so many ranged elemental spell attacks and poison, acid and lightning don't have an option to accompany them. Now I can live with Acid Splash forcing a saving throw instead, but poison and lightning really needed something extra. As a solution, I've modified each cantrip to give them some more range or utility. The exact details are in the spoiler at the top of the post, but each has a nice little boost.
Growing Ancient
The 9th and 15th level features are focused on resistances, flight and scaling. At 9th the "legendary resistance" feature functions like indomitable, but eats a reaction (ie, incompatible with flash of genius) and resets on a dawn. These concessions were made because this level also grants you a damage resistance. While flight is something dragons unlock from level... eh, Wyrmling, we all know about aarakocra shenanigans and dragon sorcerer gets flight at 14th level, so placing it at 15th seemed appropriate.
Math & Mechanics:
This entire section here is for nerds. If you're not particularly interested in the finer details of balance, feel free to skip ahead.
Vs. Artillerist
You might be thinking, holy shit an INT-powered crossbow that deals greatsword levels of damage AND it increases to 4d6 at 15 AND you get war magic with improved cantrips AND 5 suped up breath attacks per day? I know, but let me put it next to to the artillerist.
The artillerist is the most blast-y of all artificers, but when it is being discussed we often talk about their near-infinite pool of temp HP. That's not to say their eldritch cannon doesn't pack a punch, however. Let's discuss:
At level 3 it can deal 2d8 (9) damage with a bonus action, either in a cone shaped AoE or as a ranged spell attack.
At level 5 it gains 1d8 (4.5) damage on top of every cantrip it casts.
At level 9 it can deal 3d8 (13.5) damage with a bonus action because of the cannon improvements.
At level 15 it can deal 6d8 (27) damage with a bonus action for the price of a 1st level spell slot, as it can have 2 cannons active.
And that's just using cantrips and cannons. Did I mention how artillerists get scorching ray, fireball and cone of cold to cast with their action too? We're cooking with gas here. Certainly it comes with the caveat that the cannons can be destroyed, but if you plant tiny cannons on your party members they're only targetted by AoEs (and at level 15 boost the carrier's AC by 2) and if that's a problem, just place the tiny cannons in hard to reach places: they have a climbing speed. Finally flamethrower is a cone AoE, which is often better than a line AoE.
The Wyrmforge Artificer uses a ranged weapon, running up to an enemy to use a flamethrower is antithetical to how you otherwise like to position yourself. As the line AoE is typically longer, albeit less useful for actual AoE purposes, I've opted for this decision to make the class more straightforward to play.
Here's some math comparisons with the following assumptions:
Starts with 16 INT, ASI increase to 18 INT at level 4, 20 INT at level 8.
Level 12 ASI goes to elemental adept (fire).
Both are using Fire Bolt as their cantrip.
Wyrmforger's dragon cannon gets the enhanced weapon infusion.
WS = Wyrm Shell (cantrip) FC = Force Cannon Wyrm Breath = WB Flamethrower = FT
3
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
5.5
9
9
14.5
14.5
Wyrmforger
11
10
11
21
5
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
15.5
9
9
24.5
24.5
Wyrmforger
12
11
11
23
23
6
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
15.5
9
9
24.5
24.5
Wyrmforger
12
11
18
23
30
9
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
15.5
13.5
13.5
29
29
Wyrmforger
13
11
26
24
39
13
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
21.43
13.5
13.89
34.93
35.32
Wyrmforger
14.34
16.8
34.36
31.14
48.7
15
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
21.43
27
27.78
48.43
49.21
Wyrmforger
21.68
16.8
34.36
38.48
56.04
17
Action
WS/FC
WB/FT
Total WS/FC
Total WB/FT
Artillerist
27.03
27
27.78
54.03
54.81
Wyrmforger
21.68
22.4
41.7
44.08
63.38
The big one is the difference at levels 3 and 4 while Wyrm's Breath is available. However, this is also when you only have 3 Wyrm's Breath uses per day. This one might be a bit much, as you're essentially getting 3 bonus action castings of Burning hands for free while having a good attack. Food for thought.
However, the Artillerist, at every level, using fire bolt + their cannon, deals more damage than the wyrmforger using their dragon cannon + fire bolt. Their level 15 feature is in fact so strong, it positively wrecks the Wyrmforger's damage output when the Wyrmforger runs out of Wyrm Breath uses. Now of course, by level 15 the Wyrmforger is flying over the battlefield without concentration, fire is commonly resisted at this level (in case you didn't take elemental adept) and Wyrm Breath scales better than flamethrower when hitting multiple targets.
Overall my reasoning is that the added mobility, flexibility in damage type, higher burst/lower sustain and better scaling/harder to use AoE should strike a decent enough balance. However, feedback and playtesting data are required.
Feats
So one thing I like to do is to change up what feats are useful in a subclass, but I gotta say there's only so much you can do unless you homebrew those too. Still, some notables:
Sharpshooter is still pretty strong on a single attack, but it caps out pretty early in our case considering you only have the one attack roll to work with.
Crossbow Expert is hard to take advantage of when Dragon Cannon is two-handed, especially when you've got Wyrm Shell cantrips. Cancelling disadvantage when an enemy is within 5 ft is nice, but at that point just grab Gunner for some DEX.
Elemental Adept ain't no elven samurai, but ignoring resistance and turning your 1s into 2s when there's so many dice flying around provides a small boost to your average if you stick to one element. Poisoner doesn't get you the reroll on damage, but it does overcome resistance all the same.
Spell Sniper is there for really getting the most out of cold and lightning Wyrm Shell cantrips. The further the range, the more potent ray of frost's speed debuff becomes, especially when it ignores partial cover. Shocking grasp with spell sniper sits at your dragon cannon's range, which helps you better support your allies. The free cantrip is actually rather nice bonus, as it will help you deal more damage on turns you use Wyrm Breath without eating in your artificer cantrip choices.
A somewhat convoluted but cool option is fighting initiate for archery. Dwarf, Elf or Hobgoblin gives you a martial weapon proficiency which nets you the prerequisite without multiclassing.
Multiclassing
There's 2 cases that come to mind. Tempest Domain and Extra Attack.
Tempest domain gets that 65 (23.3 boost to average with elemental adept) damage once per rest on Wyrm Breath... At level 19 (2 cleric 17 artificer). At level 17 (2 cleric 15 artificer) you're looking at 18.63 instead. Nice, but hardly the most gamebreaking option at this point.
Extra Attack. Speciically because I emitted this in the wording of Wyrm Shell (as you don't get extra attack), you don't give up attacks for this feature. This is neat if you go to 20 as the 15th level feature gives you the most dice on any basic attack in the game. Ranger gives up preparing 5th level spells, but keeps spell slot progression mostly in-tact and gloom stalker gets a handy extra attack on the first turn of battle. Fighter gets you action surge and a subclass feature, but even eldritch knight can't buy you 5th level spell slots. Again though, this is a level 20 exclusive and nowhere near the most gamebreaking option at that point.
Feel free to address anything noteworthy that I've missed.
Please Send Help!
So this concludes my post and first version. I appreciate to hear your thoughts. In particular, I'd like some input on:
Do you think this subclass feels like an engineered mini-dragon? Does that sound like fun to you?
What are your thoughts on the execution of the flavour aspects thus far?
How complicated do you feel it is to play and build compared to other Artificers?
How do you feel about its blasting capabilities? Especially on the math and resource management sides of things.
And anything else you'd like to mention. Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
I think it is an interesting concept. I don't think it is too complicated, in fact, only the Level 5 improvement would cause pause.
Balance wise, you would output a maximum of 77 damage a turn. A fighter could do a maximum of 68 damage in a turn. This is without magical items. As there is no magical version of the dragon cannon, the fighter could catch up with a +2 weapon and surpass it with a a +3 weapon.
For flavour, perhaps they could have an ability powered by gold, giving them a parallel to the creature they try to imitate. I'm not sure, it was just a thought.
You have actually inspired me to make my own artificer subclass, so thank you for that. Perhaps, one day, I'll share it on here.
I think it is an interesting concept. I don't think it is too complicated, in fact, only the Level 5 improvement would cause pause.
Balance wise, you would output a maximum of 77 damage a turn. A fighter could do a maximum of 68 damage in a turn. This is without magical items. As there is no magical version of the dragon cannon, the fighter could catch up with a +2 weapon and surpass it with a a +3 weapon.
For flavour, perhaps they could have an ability powered by gold, giving them a parallel to the creature they try to imitate. I'm not sure, it was just a thought.
You have actually inspired me to make my own artificer subclass, so thank you for that. Perhaps, one day, I'll share it on here.
Anyway, I hope my reply has helped in some way.
Thanks for your comment!
Could you give me the numbers you used for the comparison with the fighter? That'd help me in re-examine the power of the feature.
Is it safe to assume that when you mention gold, you're referring to a dragon's hoard? That could be an interesting lore parallel to consider. Like perhaps many of the advancements in the field were driven by greed. Food for thought.
Good luck on any of your own creations! I find it is a lot of fun to figure things out.
At level 5 the artificer can basically make a long ranged magical attack with a greatsword, and then follow it up with a cantrip. Cantrips increase their damage at level 5 specifically to double their damage dice so that they can try to keep up with a character attacking with a weapon. This is too powerful.
Wyrm's Breath as a Bonus action, at 3rd level, is absolutely crazy. So I can attack with the cannon and then also cast an AoE spell from it??? Wyrm's Breath should require an Action to use.
Wyrm Shell seems again far too strong (an EK can cast a Cantrip and make one weapon attack using War Magic at 7th level). It also essentially sets up a routine of actions - it will always be optimal to fire the cannon, then cast the cantrip but you may be fine with this.
Cantrips should be treated as being comparable to the Extra Attack feature for a fighter at each of the increase stages, because the damage increases alongside them.
If a fighter uses a great sword that is 2d6, +5 if they have max strength and then multiply that by 4 as at level 20 as they can attack 4 times. 17*4=68. With action surge they can double this to a maximum of 136. Your one use burst damage in comparison gives you 12 extra damage, however, as it is AoE it could theoretically do a lot more damage than the fighters burst damage. I think putting a penalty for using, maybe it overheats something causing a malfunction or damage.
Thanks for your thoughts Sanvael. I'm well aware of how bonkers the features sound in isolation. Maybe I shouldn't have spoilered the whole math section in hindsight. Alas, 20/20.
Anyhow, let me adress your comparisons to the fighter.
So first off, in regards to Wyrm Shell versus the fighter's attacks. The closest thing we have is Eldritch Knight who gets War Magic at the same level as this thing gets Wyrm Shell and it does 1.5 less damage. Longbow's 1d10 = 5.5 deals less than dragon cannon's 2d6 = 7, admittedly. Eldritch knight on the other hand, does get archery for free. In terms of damage, ignoring accuracy, it takes a +2 or +3 bow (depending on wyrmforger's artificer level) to even the damage difference out. At 15, the wyrmforger does take over in DPR on a ranged build outside of Action Surge.
However, Eldritch Knight can also go in melee and use Booming Blade or GFB. Going with a greatsword here, we're dealing 2 * (2d6 + STR) + 1d8 booming blade + 2d8 booming blade (conditional). Or 2 * (2d6 + STR) + INT GFB + 1d8 GFB on 2 targets (conditional). Either case, Eldritch Knight deals more damage.
I am designing this class for a setting that allows feats. All fighters have access to feats like GWM, SS, PAM and CBE. Sentinel is neat too. I trust you're familiar with how bonkers those are in terms of DPR. That's of course absolutely fine, as martials need some way to keep up with casters, but I've operated under the assumption an offensively minded fighter takes at least 1 of these and that their subclass grants them additional damage (BM, Psi Warrior, Samurai, etc.)
Wyrm's Breath is indeed very powerful and one of the main things I'm looking at. On a single target, I'm not too worried considering fighters get action surge that recharges on a short rest. However, Fighter doesn't have much to keep up with AoE and they generally lose hard here. This is why instead I've compared it extensively to the artillerist artificer instead. This can be found in the OP under the Math&mechanics section.
As you mentioned, Wyrm's Breath is both a Bonus Action and an AoE and that's my biggest worry regarding the balancing. My main balancing factors at the moment are the inconvenient AoE shape (which pretty much forces them to the ground if they want to target multiple enemies) and the limited uses per day. I acknowledge these limitations will play out differently depending on how a DM designs an adventuring day and encounter. The 5E DMG states that they expect 6-8 Medium or Hard combat encounters per day, with about two short rests. This is not the case for all (or even most) tables, but it is what most official material, for the better or worse, seems to be balanced around.
If I'm missing any situations, made miscalculations or you still feel the same way after this post, please let me know. I appreciate the time you took to read and comment, I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible to base my decisions around.
... And also I really hope this post didn't sound too defensive on my part >.>
If a fighter uses a great sword that is 2d6, +5 if they have max strength and then multiply that by 4 as at level 20 as they can attack 4 times. 17*4=68. With action surge they can double this to a maximum of 136. Your one use burst damage in comparison gives you 12 extra damage, however, as it is AoE it could theoretically do a lot more damage than the fighters burst damage. I think putting a penalty for using, maybe it overheats something causing a malfunction or damage.
Thanks.
Thanks for the explanation. I agree that fighters should in general perform better on ST damage in both burst and sustained, as they don't have the utility of the artificer. As I mentioned earlier in this post in my reply to sazael, I'm counting on fighters using feats to supplement their damage, but yes I am still looking at the AoE aspects.
So first off, in regards to Wyrm Shell versus the fighter's attacks. The closest thing we have is Eldritch Knight who gets War Magic at the same level as this thing gets Wyrm Shell and it does 1.5 less damage. Longbow's 1d10 = 5.5 deals less than dragon cannon's 2d6 = 7, admittedly. Eldritch knight on the other hand, does get archery for free. In terms of damage, ignoring accuracy, it takes a +2 or +3 bow (depending on wyrmforger's artificer level) to even the damage difference out. At 15, the wyrmforger does take over in DPR on a ranged build outside of Action Surge.
However, Eldritch Knight can also go in melee and use Booming Blade or GFB. Going with a greatsword here, we're dealing 2 * (2d6 + STR) + 1d8 booming blade + 2d8 booming blade (conditional). Or 2 * (2d6 + STR) + INT GFB + 1d8 GFB on 2 targets (conditional). Either case, Eldritch Knight deals more damage.
Firstly, Eldritch Knight gets War Magic at level 7, whilst Wyrm Shell is level 5.
To use both a longbow and a greatweapon at the same level of effectiveness requires putting points into both DEX and STR which few fighters are going to have, especially not an EK who needs Constitution and then Intelligence. So they will either have a rapier+longbow, or they'll potentially have a greatsword+javelin(but more likely use a cantrip to make ranged attacks). If they use a Shield (a tank build is by far the best way to play EK) then they can't use 2 handed ranged weapons without using an action to remove the shield.
However, Eldritch Knight can also go in melee and use Booming Blade or GFB. Going with a greatsword here, we're dealing 2 * (2d6 + STR) + 1d8 booming blade + 2d8 booming blade (conditional). Or 2 * (2d6 + STR) + INT GFB + 1d8 GFB on 2 targets (conditional). Either case, Eldritch Knight deals more damage.
Ignore the conditional damage. Wyrm Breath can conditionally hit 6 targets, but it's not likely. Mostly creatures choose not to move when hit by Booming Blade in my experience, and including damage that the DM can choose not to happen makes no sense. GFB only deals conditional damage if creatures are stood close by, and it's not very strong anyway.
The level 7 EK cannot do two Booming Blades in one turn. If they use War Magic to cast Booming Blade or Green Flame blade, then they can make one bonus action action with a melee weapon. So the optimal damage would be: (2d6+STR) + 1d8 Booming Blade. At level 5, they don't have War Magic so levels 5-6 they just have 2 attacks.
I am designing this class for a setting that allows feats. All fighters have access to feats like GWM, SS, PAM and CBE. Sentinel is neat too. I trust you're familiar with how bonkers those are in terms of DPR. That's of course absolutely fine, as martials need some way to keep up with casters, but I've operated under the assumption an offensively minded fighter takes at least 1 of these and that their subclass grants them additional damage (BM, Psi Warrior, Samurai, etc.)
Sharpshooter performs the same task as GWM for this subclass, although you get less benefit since you don't get Extra Attack.
As you mentioned, Wyrm's Breath is both a Bonus Action and an AoE and that's my biggest worry regarding the balancing. My main balancing factors at the moment are the inconvenient AoE shape (which pretty much forces them to the ground if they want to target multiple enemies) and the limited uses per day. I acknowledge these limitations will play out differently depending on how a DM designs an adventuring day and encounter. The 5E DMG states that they expect 6-8 Medium or Hard combat encounters per day, with about two short rests. This is not the case for all (or even most) tables, but it is what most official material, for the better or worse, seems to be balanced around.
I've rarely seen a game with more than 4 encounters per day, the 6-8 aspect is nuts (and makes no sense at all at low levels).
With all that said, you're taking a class that has tons of utility (making magical items, Flash of Genius, Expertise) and trying to make it parallel the damage output of a pure damage dealing fighter. Classes with added utility aren't intended to mimic the raw damage output of fighters, because a class like EK, Champion or Battlemaster basically has nothing else to work with. If you can have all of an artificer's utility, plus spellcasting, plus deal comparable damage at long range using normal attacks, then this character is going to be overpowered.
My advice would be to start the subclass at a position whereby it's clearly weaker at damage dealing than other classes. If someone is playing it in your game, you can always scale it up; nerfing it down is always bad form.
Firstly, Eldritch Knight gets War Magic at level 7, whilst Wyrm Shell is level 5.
Oof, yeah I did overlook that in my argument. You are right.
Artificer artillerist consistently out DPR's the Wyrmforger at this level and thereby also this hypothetical of Eldritch Fighter (outside of action surge). However, official material isn't equally balanced either. I'm not sure how to go about that as fighter and artificer subclass levels are structured quite differently. Level 5 is a feelsbad level for the fighter to fall behind.
To use both a longbow and a greatweapon at the same level of effectiveness requires putting points into both DEX and STR which few fighters are going to have, especially not an EK who needs Constitution and then Intelligence. So they will either have a rapier+longbow, or they'll potentially have a greatsword+javelin(but more likely use a cantrip to make ranged attacks). If they use a Shield (a tank build is by far the best way to play EK) then they can't use 2 handed ranged weapons without using an action to remove the shield.
Longbow+rapier or greatsword+javelin option means they are versatile enough to function in both melee and ranged combat. The artificer has no martial weapon proficiencies. The fighter is also a lot tankier, regardless of the range they fight at.
INT is pretty optional on an EK, but I agree they're better as a tank build. Which leads me to;
Ignore the conditional damage. Wyrm Breath can conditionally hit 6 targets, but it's not likely. Mostly creatures choose not to move when hit by Booming Blade in my experience, and including damage that the DM can choose not to happen makes no sense. GFB only deals conditional damage if creatures are stood close by, and it's not very strong anyway.
The level 7 EK cannot do two Booming Blades in one turn. If they use War Magic to cast Booming Blade or Green Flame blade, then they can make one bonus action action with a melee weapon. So the optimal damage would be: (2d6+STR) + 1d8 Booming Blade. At level 5, they don't have War Magic so levels 5-6 they just have 2 attacks.
When Booming Blade doesn't deal conditional damage, you gain a good measure of control. It also requires you to make a weapon attack. ie, you are making an attack as part of BB/GFB and one as a bonus action. GFB's damage to the second target may not be high, but I find the ability to hit a 2nd creature very common and is often the better choice gains anything not resistant/immune to fire, though our experiences may differ here.
Sharpshooter performs the same task as GWM for this subclass, although you get less benefit since you don't get Extra Attack.
Exactly, you also don't get archery or as many feats. However, I am thinking that sharpshooter really has no place on this subclass. I'm considering to change Dragon Cannon to deliver a spell attack to get rid of the synergy.
I've rarely seen a game with more than 4 encounters per day, the 6-8 aspect is nuts (and makes no sense at all at low levels).
With all that said, you're taking a class that has tons of utility (making magical items, Flash of Genius, Expertise) and trying to make it parallel the damage output of a pure damage dealing fighter. Classes with added utility aren't intended to mimic the raw damage output of fighters, because a class like EK, Champion or Battlemaster basically has nothing else to work with. If you can have all of an artificer's utility, plus spellcasting, plus deal comparable damage at long range using normal attacks, then this character is going to be overpowered.
My advice would be to start the subclass at a position whereby it's clearly weaker at damage dealing than other classes. If someone is playing it in your game, you can always scale it up; nerfing it down is always bad form.
Champion might not have much to work with, even in terms of damage it ain't great, but EK and BM definitely have a ton of options, both defensive and control. Action Surge is a premiere damage button that's exclusive to fighters as well and it takes a while to catch up to that.
I personally prefer to nerf instead as I won't be running it into a campaign until I've properly playtested it. Consider this UA, rather than the finished product. While I'll probably upload a version for people to use at their own discretion, my intention is to try it in a couple one-shots instead and then change it accordingly.
Anyhow! Even though we don't agree on everything, I do wanna thank you for the thought and time you put into your comment. It has given me plenty things to consider and I appreciate it a lot. I need some time to gather my thoughts (and hopefully more feedback) but some of the changes I am strongly considering after your post are the aforementioned spell attack on Dragon Cannon and put Wyrm's Breath on an action so it can't be combined with most spells that turn to weaken some of that versatility. I'll need to think about the damage numbers as I do want to stay competitive with the artillerist, but I'll post what changes and what doesn't when I put the next version up.
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback so far. I've made a number of changes.
List of changes below:
CHANGELOG:
Dragon Cannon now counts as a spell attack.
Wyrm's Breath now requires an action.
Wyrm's Breath no longer uses your intelligence modifier.
Wyrm Shell now requires a spell slot to activate for 10 minutes.
Wyrm Shell's cantrip now requires an action to cast.
Wyrm Shell now allows for a single attack with Dragon Cannon as a bonus action.
Draconinian Metallurgy has an additional feature where it allows you to target additional creatures when you use a higher level spell slot (1 for third level or higher, 2 for 5th level or higher) to activate Wyrm Shell on the turn it is used.
INTERACTIONS:
Sharpshooter and Extra Attack are no longer as compatible with this subclass.
You cannot use spells with the casting time of an action on the turn you use Wyrm Breath/Wyrm Shell cantrips.
Out-DPR'ing a ranged base fighter (that doesn't use feats/action surge) is no longer free.
DAMAGE:
I forgot something important in my previous calculations: enhanced weapon infusion doesn't specify weapon attack/damage rolls, meaning that Wyrm's Breath only eats a 2-3 points nerf instead of 3-5, and Wyrm shell cantrips get slightly better. The accuracy is a big deal, which is why this is now tied to a resource.
ThorukDuckslayer brought a very cool option to my attention with burning spell slots to enhance cantrips. This gives additional burst damage if there are multiple targets clustered to give options for blasting, but has limited use and a significant opportunity cost for a half caster.
If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Artificer Level
Spell
3rd
Earth Tremor, Fog Cloud
5th
Darkvision, See Invisibility
9th
Erupting Earth, Fear
13th
Elemental Bane, Polymorph
17th
Hold Monster, Legend Lore
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As an action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind. Using a spell slot of first level or higher, you can enhance your Dragon Cannon for a duration of 10 minutes. During this time you can cast a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon with your action. When you cast this cantrip or use your Wyrm's Breath feature, you may make one attack with your Dragon Cannon as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage using your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities. You gain the following benefits:
When you use the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you now deal 4d6 damage plus your Intelligence modifier damage on hit. The range of your Wyrm's Breath feature increases to 60 feet.
On the turn you activate your Wyrm Shell feature and use a 3rd level spell slot or higher, you can target one additional creature with the cantrip granted by this feature. When you use a 5th level spell slot or higher, you can instead target two additional creatures. These creatures must be within 5 feet of the target of your cantrip.
While wearing your Iron Scales armor, you have a flying speed of 30 feet.
Let me know what you think about the changes! Also feel free to point out any language or style errors and - if you have a better name for Draconinian Metallurgy, please(!) let me know.
I have one thing to point out quickly before I do an in depth look at this. The fact that the Dragon Cannon is a weapon means you can stack it with Extra Attack. If you are intending to scale the attack's damage to keep up with things like a fighter's Extra Attacks (which is what I took from the damage increase at 15th level) I would suggest turning the attack into a ranged spell attack (like with the Artillerist's Force Ballista).
It also simplifies things as you now default to Int instead of having to specify that this particular weapon uses Intelligence.
Oh, and I think Wyrm Forger sounds like a cool name for your last feature.
I have one thing to point out quickly before I do an in depth look at this. The fact that the Dragon Cannon is a weapon means you can stack it with Extra Attack. If you are intending to scale the attack's damage to keep up with things like a fighter's Extra Attacks (which is what I took from the damage increase at 15th level) I would suggest turning the attack into a ranged spell attack (like with the Artillerist's Force Ballista).
It also simplifies things as you now default to Int instead of having to specify that this particular weapon uses Intelligence.
Oh, and I think Wyrm Forger sounds like a cool name for your last feature.
Good catch, I'll keep that in mind for next update. Thanks!
So this is a little late, but for anyone still around the subclass is now live: Click me!
There's a few minor changes, but most of it is wording.
CHANGELOG: Added wyrm's breath as a once per turn feature to prevent action surge synergy. Renamed Iron Scales to Forged Scales and Draconic Metallurgy to Dragonwrought. Improved the wording on Dragon Cannon and Dragonwrought to focus more on the spell attack aspect of the features. Improved the wording on Forged Scales and Dragonwrought to reflect an armor can benefit from the feature, rather than the armor being the feature.
KNOWN ISSUES: The DNDB system doesn't apply the Enhanced Weapon and Radiant Weapon infusions as intended, so players will have to manually add the +1/+2 to Dragon Cannon, Wyrm Shell cantrips and Wyrm's Breath.
TO TEST: How does this stack up against the artificer artillerist, or an archery fighter/ranger? Wyrm's Breath's AoE range, how effective is it when the player is forced to use line AoE's? Flight + Fear. I'm surprised nobody commented on this, but it is pretty good.
tl;dr I made an artificer subclass and I would like your opinions. Thanks.
Latest version!
Version 0.2 (Old)
If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As an action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind. Using a spell slot of first level or higher, you can enhance your Dragon Cannon for a duration of 10 minutes. During this time you can cast a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon with your action. When you cast this cantrip or use your Wyrm's Breath feature, you may make one attack with your Dragon Cannon as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage using your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities. You gain the following benefits:
Version 0.1 (Old)
If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As a bonus action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 + your Intelligence modifier damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind.
You learn a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you take the attack action using your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage through your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus. When using the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you can cast this cantrip as a bonus action.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities.
When you use the attack action with your Dragon Cannon, you now deal 4d6 damage plus your Intelligence modifier damage on hit. The range of your Wyrm's Breath feature increases to 60 feet.
While wearing your Iron Scales armor, you have a flying speed of 30 feet.
Hey there, you good-looking person you, how you doing? You may or may not remember me from my last subclass, and like last time, I'd like to use this thread to set up some context for my goals and process.
Dragons!
Browsing homebrew, I've come across a trend: the draconic sorcerer bloodline is nowhere near enough to sate the community's love for flying, fire breathing god-lizards. I've seen concepts for paladins with draconic vows, barbarian cultists who worship dragons. Heck, If everything makes it out of UA, we'll soon have a dragon monk and ranger!
But you know what I've seen absolutely no one ask for? The one subclass nobody thought was a good idea? Yeah that's right. Today I'm presenting you with the Wyrmforge artificer.
Well okay there is one in beyond's homebrew catalogue but bear with me.My previous subclass was born from a desire to add a mechanical twist to the fairly straightforward barbarian. This time I wanted to on a flavour-first approach to my design process. Here's to hoping it works out.
Concept & Goals:
In the real world, technology often tries to replicate features we see in nature. The aerodynamics of planes being the most famous example. In D&D, where (super)nature has so many amazing innate abilities, wouldn't it make sense to try and capture some of that essence with the artificer's engineering? That's the feel I'm going for. Aesthetically, I've long been fascinated by depictions of dragons in history versus the fantasy styled ones we see more of today. One in particular is the dragon cannon from Myanmar, a cannon shaped like a dragon's head to illustrate this technology's fearsome might (at least before we had more modern firearms). Awesome.
That leaves the mechanical identity. On the one hand, Artificers can do all sorts of things already and are versatile as a result. Running around with vHumans in caves? Goggles of the night, free of charge. Wizard is getting poked while concentrating on a spell? Mind sharpener to the rescue. We, on the other hand, will completely shift focus and embrace our collective inner child: dragon breath go brrr! Let's be real, we like dragons because they're monsters of awe-inspiring might. Copying one should sate our most carnal desire in gameplay: dealing the damage.
The How:
For a complete overview of the subclass, check the spoiler at the top of the post first.
Becoming the Dragon
At 3rd level, we start with the catalyst of it all; the dragon cannon. It is modelled after a light crossbow in most aspects, but lacks the ammunition and loading properties and deals 2d6 damage (there's a math & mechanics section below to to break down the numbers.) Similar to the battlesmith and armorer, you can use your intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls. One of the cool things about dragons in D&D is that there's one representing every element (and poison). On a long rest, you can change the element of your dragon cannon, which will subsequently effect other class features as well.
Speaking of which, you also gain a feature called Wyrm's Breath. This is a limited use breath weapon that you can use as a bonus action. Rather than the more popular cone AoE, I've opted for the under-represented line AoE. This is the blast- and burst option a lot of the numbers will be based around. The additional spell list lacks elemental blast options to compensate.
War MagicWyrm ShellOur 3rd level feature gives us an incentive to make weapon attacks, but in order to keep up past level 5 it needs some form of scaling. Extra attack is cool, but you know what I think is even cooler? War Magic. Since this fits with the arcane technology flavour and I've already dipped into a focus that's basically ranged spell attacks, this feature doubles down on those aspects at level 5. You learn a cantrip of your dragon cannon's damage type and when you take the attack action, you can cast it as a bonus action.
This however, presents one problem. There's only so many ranged elemental spell attacks and poison, acid and lightning don't have an option to accompany them. Now I can live with Acid Splash forcing a saving throw instead, but poison and lightning really needed something extra. As a solution, I've modified each cantrip to give them some more range or utility. The exact details are in the spoiler at the top of the post, but each has a nice little boost.
Growing Ancient
The 9th and 15th level features are focused on resistances, flight and scaling. At 9th the "legendary resistance" feature functions like indomitable, but eats a reaction (ie, incompatible with flash of genius) and resets on a dawn. These concessions were made because this level also grants you a damage resistance. While flight is something dragons unlock from level... eh, Wyrmling, we all know about aarakocra shenanigans and dragon sorcerer gets flight at 14th level, so placing it at 15th seemed appropriate.
Math & Mechanics:
This entire section here is for nerds. If you're not particularly interested in the finer details of balance, feel free to skip ahead.
Vs. Artillerist
You might be thinking, holy shit an INT-powered crossbow that deals greatsword levels of damage AND it increases to 4d6 at 15 AND you get war magic with improved cantrips AND 5 suped up breath attacks per day? I know, but let me put it next to to the artillerist.
The artillerist is the most blast-y of all artificers, but when it is being discussed we often talk about their near-infinite pool of temp HP. That's not to say their eldritch cannon doesn't pack a punch, however. Let's discuss:
And that's just using cantrips and cannons. Did I mention how artillerists get scorching ray, fireball and cone of cold to cast with their action too? We're cooking with gas here. Certainly it comes with the caveat that the cannons can be destroyed, but if you plant tiny cannons on your party members they're only targetted by AoEs (and at level 15 boost the carrier's AC by 2) and if that's a problem, just place the tiny cannons in hard to reach places: they have a climbing speed. Finally flamethrower is a cone AoE, which is often better than a line AoE.
The Wyrmforge Artificer uses a ranged weapon, running up to an enemy to use a flamethrower is antithetical to how you otherwise like to position yourself. As the line AoE is typically longer, albeit less useful for actual AoE purposes, I've opted for this decision to make the class more straightforward to play.
Here's some math comparisons with the following assumptions:
WS = Wyrm Shell (cantrip)
FC = Force Cannon
Wyrm Breath = WB
Flamethrower = FT
The big one is the difference at levels 3 and 4 while Wyrm's Breath is available. However, this is also when you only have 3 Wyrm's Breath uses per day. This one might be a bit much, as you're essentially getting 3 bonus action castings of Burning hands for free while having a good attack. Food for thought.
However, the Artillerist, at every level, using fire bolt + their cannon, deals more damage than the wyrmforger using their dragon cannon + fire bolt. Their level 15 feature is in fact so strong, it positively wrecks the Wyrmforger's damage output when the Wyrmforger runs out of Wyrm Breath uses. Now of course, by level 15 the Wyrmforger is flying over the battlefield without concentration, fire is commonly resisted at this level (in case you didn't take elemental adept) and Wyrm Breath scales better than flamethrower when hitting multiple targets.
Overall my reasoning is that the added mobility, flexibility in damage type, higher burst/lower sustain and better scaling/harder to use AoE should strike a decent enough balance. However, feedback and playtesting data are required.
Feats
So one thing I like to do is to change up what feats are useful in a subclass, but I gotta say there's only so much you can do unless you homebrew those too. Still, some notables:
Multiclassing
There's 2 cases that come to mind. Tempest Domain and Extra Attack.
Feel free to address anything noteworthy that I've missed.
Please Send Help!
So this concludes my post and first version. I appreciate to hear your thoughts. In particular, I'd like some input on:
And anything else you'd like to mention. Thanks in advance and have a wonderful day.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
I think it is an interesting concept. I don't think it is too complicated, in fact, only the Level 5 improvement would cause pause.
Balance wise, you would output a maximum of 77 damage a turn. A fighter could do a maximum of 68 damage in a turn. This is without magical items. As there is no magical version of the dragon cannon, the fighter could catch up with a +2 weapon and surpass it with a a +3 weapon.
For flavour, perhaps they could have an ability powered by gold, giving them a parallel to the creature they try to imitate. I'm not sure, it was just a thought.
You have actually inspired me to make my own artificer subclass, so thank you for that. Perhaps, one day, I'll share it on here.
Anyway, I hope my reply has helped in some way.
Thanks for your comment!
Could you give me the numbers you used for the comparison with the fighter? That'd help me in re-examine the power of the feature.
Is it safe to assume that when you mention gold, you're referring to a dragon's hoard? That could be an interesting lore parallel to consider. Like perhaps many of the advancements in the field were driven by greed. Food for thought.
Good luck on any of your own creations! I find it is a lot of fun to figure things out.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
My main thoughts would be:
Cantrips should be treated as being comparable to the Extra Attack feature for a fighter at each of the increase stages, because the damage increases alongside them.
No problem.
If a fighter uses a great sword that is 2d6, +5 if they have max strength and then multiply that by 4 as at level 20 as they can attack 4 times. 17*4=68. With action surge they can double this to a maximum of 136. Your one use burst damage in comparison gives you 12 extra damage, however, as it is AoE it could theoretically do a lot more damage than the fighters burst damage. I think putting a penalty for using, maybe it overheats something causing a malfunction or damage.
Thanks.
Thanks for your thoughts Sanvael. I'm well aware of how bonkers the features sound in isolation. Maybe I shouldn't have spoilered the whole math section in hindsight. Alas, 20/20.
Anyhow, let me adress your comparisons to the fighter.
So first off, in regards to Wyrm Shell versus the fighter's attacks. The closest thing we have is Eldritch Knight who gets War Magic at the same level as this thing gets Wyrm Shell and it does 1.5 less damage. Longbow's 1d10 = 5.5 deals less than dragon cannon's 2d6 = 7, admittedly. Eldritch knight on the other hand, does get archery for free. In terms of damage, ignoring accuracy, it takes a +2 or +3 bow (depending on wyrmforger's artificer level) to even the damage difference out. At 15, the wyrmforger does take over in DPR on a ranged build outside of Action Surge.
However, Eldritch Knight can also go in melee and use Booming Blade or GFB. Going with a greatsword here, we're dealing 2 * (2d6 + STR) + 1d8 booming blade + 2d8 booming blade (conditional). Or 2 * (2d6 + STR) + INT GFB + 1d8 GFB on 2 targets (conditional). Either case, Eldritch Knight deals more damage.
I am designing this class for a setting that allows feats. All fighters have access to feats like GWM, SS, PAM and CBE. Sentinel is neat too. I trust you're familiar with how bonkers those are in terms of DPR. That's of course absolutely fine, as martials need some way to keep up with casters, but I've operated under the assumption an offensively minded fighter takes at least 1 of these and that their subclass grants them additional damage (BM, Psi Warrior, Samurai, etc.)
Wyrm's Breath is indeed very powerful and one of the main things I'm looking at. On a single target, I'm not too worried considering fighters get action surge that recharges on a short rest. However, Fighter doesn't have much to keep up with AoE and they generally lose hard here. This is why instead I've compared it extensively to the artillerist artificer instead. This can be found in the OP under the Math&mechanics section.
As you mentioned, Wyrm's Breath is both a Bonus Action and an AoE and that's my biggest worry regarding the balancing. My main balancing factors at the moment are the inconvenient AoE shape (which pretty much forces them to the ground if they want to target multiple enemies) and the limited uses per day. I acknowledge these limitations will play out differently depending on how a DM designs an adventuring day and encounter. The 5E DMG states that they expect 6-8 Medium or Hard combat encounters per day, with about two short rests. This is not the case for all (or even most) tables, but it is what most official material, for the better or worse, seems to be balanced around.
If I'm missing any situations, made miscalculations or you still feel the same way after this post, please let me know. I appreciate the time you took to read and comment, I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible to base my decisions around.
... And also I really hope this post didn't sound too defensive on my part >.>
EDIT:
Thanks for the explanation. I agree that fighters should in general perform better on ST damage in both burst and sustained, as they don't have the utility of the artificer. As I mentioned earlier in this post in my reply to sazael, I'm counting on fighters using feats to supplement their damage, but yes I am still looking at the AoE aspects.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
Firstly, Eldritch Knight gets War Magic at level 7, whilst Wyrm Shell is level 5.
To use both a longbow and a greatweapon at the same level of effectiveness requires putting points into both DEX and STR which few fighters are going to have, especially not an EK who needs Constitution and then Intelligence. So they will either have a rapier+longbow, or they'll potentially have a greatsword+javelin(but more likely use a cantrip to make ranged attacks). If they use a Shield (a tank build is by far the best way to play EK) then they can't use 2 handed ranged weapons without using an action to remove the shield.
Ignore the conditional damage. Wyrm Breath can conditionally hit 6 targets, but it's not likely. Mostly creatures choose not to move when hit by Booming Blade in my experience, and including damage that the DM can choose not to happen makes no sense. GFB only deals conditional damage if creatures are stood close by, and it's not very strong anyway.
The level 7 EK cannot do two Booming Blades in one turn. If they use War Magic to cast Booming Blade or Green Flame blade, then they can make one bonus action action with a melee weapon. So the optimal damage would be: (2d6+STR) + 1d8 Booming Blade. At level 5, they don't have War Magic so levels 5-6 they just have 2 attacks.
Sharpshooter performs the same task as GWM for this subclass, although you get less benefit since you don't get Extra Attack.
I've rarely seen a game with more than 4 encounters per day, the 6-8 aspect is nuts (and makes no sense at all at low levels).
With all that said, you're taking a class that has tons of utility (making magical items, Flash of Genius, Expertise) and trying to make it parallel the damage output of a pure damage dealing fighter. Classes with added utility aren't intended to mimic the raw damage output of fighters, because a class like EK, Champion or Battlemaster basically has nothing else to work with. If you can have all of an artificer's utility, plus spellcasting, plus deal comparable damage at long range using normal attacks, then this character is going to be overpowered.
My advice would be to start the subclass at a position whereby it's clearly weaker at damage dealing than other classes. If someone is playing it in your game, you can always scale it up; nerfing it down is always bad form.
Oof, yeah I did overlook that in my argument. You are right.
Artificer artillerist consistently out DPR's the Wyrmforger at this level and thereby also this hypothetical of Eldritch Fighter (outside of action surge). However, official material isn't equally balanced either. I'm not sure how to go about that as fighter and artificer subclass levels are structured quite differently. Level 5 is a feelsbad level for the fighter to fall behind.
Longbow+rapier or greatsword+javelin option means they are versatile enough to function in both melee and ranged combat. The artificer has no martial weapon proficiencies. The fighter is also a lot tankier, regardless of the range they fight at.
INT is pretty optional on an EK, but I agree they're better as a tank build. Which leads me to;
When Booming Blade doesn't deal conditional damage, you gain a good measure of control. It also requires you to make a weapon attack. ie, you are making an attack as part of BB/GFB and one as a bonus action. GFB's damage to the second target may not be high, but I find the ability to hit a 2nd creature very common and is often the better choice gains anything not resistant/immune to fire, though our experiences may differ here.
Exactly, you also don't get archery or as many feats. However, I am thinking that sharpshooter really has no place on this subclass. I'm considering to change Dragon Cannon to deliver a spell attack to get rid of the synergy.
Champion might not have much to work with, even in terms of damage it ain't great, but EK and BM definitely have a ton of options, both defensive and control. Action Surge is a premiere damage button that's exclusive to fighters as well and it takes a while to catch up to that.
I personally prefer to nerf instead as I won't be running it into a campaign until I've properly playtested it. Consider this UA, rather than the finished product. While I'll probably upload a version for people to use at their own discretion, my intention is to try it in a couple one-shots instead and then change it accordingly.
Anyhow! Even though we don't agree on everything, I do wanna thank you for the thought and time you put into your comment. It has given me plenty things to consider and I appreciate it a lot. I need some time to gather my thoughts (and hopefully more feedback) but some of the changes I am strongly considering after your post are the aforementioned spell attack on Dragon Cannon and put Wyrm's Breath on an action so it can't be combined with most spells that turn to weaken some of that versatility. I'll need to think about the damage numbers as I do want to stay competitive with the artillerist, but I'll post what changes and what doesn't when I put the next version up.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback so far. I've made a number of changes.
List of changes below:
CHANGELOG:
INTERACTIONS:
DAMAGE:
Wyrmforger version 0.2
If technology mimics nature, the Wyrmforger seeks to outfit themselves with the innate might of dragons. Not content with conventional arms, this artificer's specialised cannon harnesses the ruinous powers of the elements. Their branch of engineering is often a topic of controversy - factions employing these artificers use their very threat as a means to defend their borders or intimidate their enemies.
Tool Proficiency
When you adopt this specialization at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with smith's tools. If you already have this proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan's tools of your choice.
Wyrmforger Spells
You always have certain spells prepared after you reach particular levels in this class, as shown in the Wyrmforger Spells table. These spells count as artificer spells for you, but they don't count against the number of artificer spells you prepare.
Dragon Cannon
Starting 3rd level, you can build your own weapon to replicate the might of dragons. Choose a damage type, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison. When using the Dragon Cannon to make an attack or using Wyrm's Breath, you deal damage of your chosen damage type. You can change this damage type when you finish a short or long rest, provided you have smith's tools in hand. Additionally, you can use your Dragon Cannon as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells and it counts as an item for your Infuse Items feature.
Your Dragon Cannon counts as a simple ranged weapon for you. It has the two-handed property, a normal range of 80 feet and a long range of 320 feet. You add your Intelligence modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, to the attack and damage rolls. The Dragon Cannon deals 2d6 of your chosen damage type on a hit. This damage increases to 4d6 at level 15.
Wyrm's Breath
The dragon's breath weapon is one of its most feared assets. Your Dragon Cannon is engineered to unleash a replica called Wyrm's Breath.
As an action, your Dragon Cannon can shoot a beam of destructive energy in a 30 feet line. Anyone caught in the area must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 2d6 damage of the cannon's chosen damage type. This damage increases to 4d6 at 6th level, 6d6 at 9th level, 8d6 at 15th level and 10d6 at 17th level. You can use this feature equal times to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once) and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
The range of this feature increases to 60 feet at level 15.
Wyrm Shell
At 5th level, you improve your Dragon Cannon to capture the innate magic of dragonkind. Using a spell slot of first level or higher, you can enhance your Dragon Cannon for a duration of 10 minutes. During this time you can cast a cantrip specific to the element of your Dragon Cannon with your action. When you cast this cantrip or use your Wyrm's Breath feature, you may make one attack with your Dragon Cannon as a bonus action.
Additionally, when you cast an Artificer spell that deals, acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage using your Dragon Cannon, you can change that damage type of that spell to the element of your Dragon Cannon.
Acid Splash
You can cast Acid Splash using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip can now target 3 creatures, provided each is within 5 feet of the first target.
Fire Bolt
You can cast Fire Bolt using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip now ignores half cover and three-quarters cover.
Poison Spray
You can cast Poison Spray using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 60 feet and if the target succeeds on their saving throw, it takes half damage.
Ray of Frost
You can cast Ray of Frost using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip's range is increased to 80 feet.
Shocking Grasp
You can cast Shocking Grasp using your Dragon Cannon as a focus.
Additionally, this cantrip is now a ranged spell attack with a range of 40 feet.
Iron Scales
Beginning at 9th level, you know how to imbue a set of armour with draconic magic. You gain the following benefits:
While wearing this armor, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail as a reaction. If you do so, you must use the new roll and you can't use this feature again until the next dawn.
While wearing this armor you gain resistance to the element of your Dragon Cannon. When you change the element of your Dragon Cannon, this resistance changes to the newly chosen element.
Draconinian Metallurgy
At 15th level, your engineering reaches its peak. You learn to further modify your Dragon Cannon and Iron Scales armor to mimic the dragons' greatest abilities. You gain the following benefits:
Let me know what you think about the changes! Also feel free to point out any language or style errors and - if you have a better name for Draconinian Metallurgy, please(!) let me know.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
I have one thing to point out quickly before I do an in depth look at this. The fact that the Dragon Cannon is a weapon means you can stack it with Extra Attack. If you are intending to scale the attack's damage to keep up with things like a fighter's Extra Attacks (which is what I took from the damage increase at 15th level) I would suggest turning the attack into a ranged spell attack (like with the Artillerist's Force Ballista).
It also simplifies things as you now default to Int instead of having to specify that this particular weapon uses Intelligence.
Oh, and I think Wyrm Forger sounds like a cool name for your last feature.
Chilling kinda vibe.
Good catch, I'll keep that in mind for next update. Thanks!
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
You're welcome!
Chilling kinda vibe.
So this is a little late, but for anyone still around the subclass is now live: Click me!
There's a few minor changes, but most of it is wording.
CHANGELOG:
Added wyrm's breath as a once per turn feature to prevent action surge synergy.
Renamed Iron Scales to Forged Scales and Draconic Metallurgy to Dragonwrought.
Improved the wording on Dragon Cannon and Dragonwrought to focus more on the spell attack aspect of the features.
Improved the wording on Forged Scales and Dragonwrought to reflect an armor can benefit from the feature, rather than the armor being the feature.
KNOWN ISSUES:
The DNDB system doesn't apply the Enhanced Weapon and Radiant Weapon infusions as intended, so players will have to manually add the +1/+2 to Dragon Cannon, Wyrm Shell cantrips and Wyrm's Breath.
TO TEST:
How does this stack up against the artificer artillerist, or an archery fighter/ranger?
Wyrm's Breath's AoE range, how effective is it when the player is forced to use line AoE's?
Flight + Fear. I'm surprised nobody commented on this, but it is pretty good.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread