Next time you run a dragon, don't let your players fight him on easy mode. A dragon should be scary, deadly and very intelligent. This might be the first time the adventures fight a dragon, but the dragon has defended its hoard from filthy thieves for years. He/she knows that most people can't fly, and that spell casters typically wear robes and not armor. Here are some tactics that a Dragon would and should use.
Focus fire all attacks on one target with intent to kill.
Use the Attack Action to grapple a PC then fly off with them. Now the dragon has either a bargaining chip, or can just drop the PC (no action required) making them suffer a d6 bludgeoning damage per every 10 feet to a maximum of 20d6. No Save is specified.
Use Lair Actions to target PCs who are concentrating on spells or healers.
Remember to Use the Legendary Actions. You can use all 3 charges every round on PC's turns. They recharge at the start of the Dragon's Turn.
If your Dragons use spells- pick ones that disrupt the party instead of damaging them. Good picks are mirror image, phantasmal force, sleep, grease, etc.
Do not engage in melee if you do not have too. Fly around waiting for your breath weapon to recharge and simply use your action to dodge till it is ready and let your lair actions bleed your PC's HP.
Attacks of Opportunity hurt less than full attacks because they can only attack once. If you must enter the melee, fly right out and take the Opportunity Attack instead of a full attack.
A dragon will flee or negotiate the moment it fears it might lose.
Use the environment to your advantage. Green Dragons can breath underwater. Maybe its lair has a deep pool and the Dragon will grapple a PC then drag it underwater to test its lung capacity.
Dragons of different colors have different personalities- use them in your Dragons tactics. White Dragons for example, are very primal and do not often engage in conversations with its food. Green Dragons on the other hand have very deceitful tongues.
Dragon fights should be memorable. If your party can simply best a dragon without feeling afraid or without any losses, it kinda downplays how powerful and awesome they are meant to be. If a party of 4-6 PCs can down a Dragon so easily, why do entire cities and armies fall to a dragon? The party should feel the force of a creature so mighty.
Why no responses? Are we intimidated? Hi Dicey! Thanks for the advice!
I'll agree wholeheartedly that Dragons (and, in fact, all Legendary creatures in the Monster Manual) should be memorable fights.
Sometimes through the combat itself, sometimes through the buildup (I also like the territory Lair effects), sometimes through the shock factor (I really like that one time in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen where
the party fights an Adult Blue Dragon at level 1.
But nothing beats personal (party) anecdotes!
I fondly remember a dragon grappling a party member in their jaws, and drawing in a breath. The scrambling of the party to dislodge the ranger from the dragon's maw before he was barbequed in the next round was impressive.
This is the reason why the thought of having to fight a dragon is absolutely terrifying. My last session I used this fact to my advantage as a DM.
An encounter that happened was two party members on watch hearing the roar of an Adult Dragon. They crit the nature check to determine what caused the roar and so I just straight up said "Its a dragon". The looks of dread and the absolute silence that followed was the most beautiful thing I've heard yet since starting DMing.
I confess I drew heavily on Broequis' post on Reddit. Found here
I changed the layout of the area significantly, and they first engaged the dragon on a small island surrounded by a very deep moat.
The tips in the above Reddit thread are amazing, some of my players are veterans and some had never encountered a dragon before.
I used lots of lead up, and they saw parts of the dragon, the tip of a tail, the edge of a wing, or the cloud from the breath weapon in the days leading up to the fight.
The truth is I couldn't say who was more scared of a TPK, them or me.
My players fought valiantly and even though they were on single digits, the encounter was completed.
Much to my joy, the dragon "who was flying off with the healing cleric, was taken to exactly half health by the Tempest cleric, who maximized his spell attack.
The dragon dropped the lady into the moat, and sank to the bottom.
I awarded XP, and loot, and they were strutting about proudly until the next session. When he had licked his wounds and returned.........
Next time you run a dragon, don't let your players fight him on easy mode. A dragon should be scary, deadly and very intelligent. This might be the first time the adventures fight a dragon, but the dragon has defended its hoard from filthy thieves for years. He/she knows that most people can't fly, and that spell casters typically wear robes and not armor. Here are some tactics that a Dragon would and should use.
Focus fire all attacks on one target with intent to kill.
Use the Attack Action to grapple a PC then fly off with them. Now the dragon has either a bargaining chip, or can just drop the PC (no action required) making them suffer a d6 bludgeoning damage per every 10 feet to a maximum of 20d6. No Save is specified.
Use Lair Actions to target PCs who are concentrating on spells or healers.
Remember to Use the Legendary Actions. You can use all 3 charges every round on PC's turns. They recharge at the start of the Dragon's Turn.
If your Dragons use spells- pick ones that disrupt the party instead of damaging them. Good picks are mirror image, phantasmal force, sleep, grease, etc.
Do not engage in melee if you do not have too. Fly around waiting for your breath weapon to recharge and simply use your action to dodge till it is ready and let your lair actions bleed your PC's HP.
Attacks of Opportunity hurt less than full attacks because they can only attack once. If you must enter the melee, fly right out and take the Opportunity Attack instead of a full attack.
A dragon will flee or negotiate the moment it fears it might lose.
Use the environment to your advantage. Green Dragons can breath underwater. Maybe its lair has a deep pool and the Dragon will grapple a PC then drag it underwater to test its lung capacity.
Dragons of different colors have different personalities- use them in your Dragons tactics. White Dragons for example, are very primal and do not often engage in conversations with its food. Green Dragons on the other hand have very deceitful tongues.
Dragon fights should be memorable. If your party can simply best a dragon without feeling afraid or without any losses, it kinda downplays how powerful and awesome they are meant to be. If a party of 4-6 PCs can down a Dragon so easily, why do entire cities and armies fall to a dragon? The party should feel the force of a creature so mighty.
This is awesome! Really nice work!
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Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever.
Some great insight there - I find that some DMs use big impressive monsters and undersell them.
Use of effective strategy and planning can really increase the challenge of an encounter.
Something I do when running very intelligent creatures (dragons etc) is recognise that the creature is more intelligent than me, so .... they will have thought of things that I, the DM, won't have thought of.
What does that mean? Well .... when the players do something that surprises you - it didn't surprise the dragon. The dragon is 200 years old and has seen this before. What's more, the dragon not only expected it, but set-up a counter/trap for it. The fact that you, as the DM didn't expect the players to do it is inconsequential. :)
I once had a GM (after the game session) ask "Why don't PCs ever run away? Why did you stay and drag out that fight you weren't supposed to win?" (we did win).
I turned to him and said "WHAT were we supposed to do? We can't run away! Our slowest people are short or in armor, we were on mountainous terrain, we were without cover, and a dragon flies. When presented with certain death and near certain death I will always take near certain death!"
Personally my character's opinion of fighting a dragon is generally to laugh heartily and remind people "that's a terrible idea." Mostly, I've tried to negotiate with them, and if that doesn't work poison, acid, explosives. Never fight a dragon on it's terms.
When possible always use deception like slaughter a pig, fill it's insides with acid flasks and alchemists fires (whatever that dragon is weak to) and offer meal to it as an opening of negotiations.
I once had a GM (after the game session) ask "Why don't PCs ever run away? Why did you stay and drag out that fight you weren't supposed to win?" (we did win).
I turned to him and said "WHAT were we supposed to do? We can't run away! Our slowest people are short or in armor, we were on mountainous terrain, we were without cover, and a dragon flies. When presented with certain death and near certain death I will always take near certain death!"
Personally my character's opinion of fighting a dragon is generally to laugh heartily and remind people "that's a terrible idea." Mostly, I've tried to negotiate with them, and if that doesn't work poison, acid, explosives. Never fight a dragon on it's terms.
When possible always use deception like slaughter a pig, fill it's insides with acid flasks and alchemists fires (whatever that dragon is weak to) and offer meal to it as an opening of negotiations.
In a game, Dragons are dangerous but if they are that hardcore I become tempted to pull out "The Holy Satchel Charge of Alchemist Fire".
Backpack: 2gp, 5lbs 1 cubic foot/30 pounds of gear
Alchemist's Fire (flask): 50gp, 1lb On a hit, the target takes 1d4 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. A creature can end this damage by using its action to make a DC 10 Dexterity check to extinguish the flames.
Oil (flask): 1sp, 1lb If the target takes any fire damage before the oil dries (after 1 minute), the target takes an additional 5 fire damage from the burning oil.
29 Alchemist's Fire (flasks) 1 Oil (flask) 1 Backpack
Total Cost: 1,452.1 Gold Dealing 29d4+5 fire damage Priceless
I can sometimes be accused of played Dungeons & Dragons like it's a Shadowrun game...
You have to be careful what kind of escalation you choose as both a GM and Player.
Something I do when running very intelligent creatures (dragons etc) is recognise that the creature is more intelligent than me, so .... they will have thought of things that I, the DM, won't have thought of.
What does that mean? Well .... when the players do something that surprises you - it didn't surprise the dragon. The dragon is 200 years old and has seen this before. What's more, the dragon not only expected it, but set-up a counter/trap for it. The fact that you, as the DM didn't expect the players to do it is inconsequential. :)
I'm not sure whether to call you despicable/diabolical/vile/fiendish/maniacal/just plain evil or brilliant/inspired/a genius. I'm going to go with all of the above.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
A dragon should feel like it came from a shadowrun game!
Nooooooope. You don't fight Dragons in Shadowrun.
You do whatever the Dragon asks of you and hope you aren't made an offer you can't refuse... Vote Dunkelzahn!
I think one of the main things is thing about what a Dragon wants... and to a certain extent why doesn't it rule?
You can fight dragons in Shadowrun... if you're into taking big risks and have rocket launchers and other anti-vehicle weaponry.
I agree though that having an encounter with a dragon in D&D feel like an encounter with a dragon in Shadowrun wouldn't be great, since that would necessitate making most normal forms of attack (including low-to-mid-level spells) feel completely ineffective, while having each attack a dragon makes feel like a roll-high-or-die effect.
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Next time you run a dragon, don't let your players fight him on easy mode. A dragon should be scary, deadly and very intelligent. This might be the first time the adventures fight a dragon, but the dragon has defended its hoard from filthy thieves for years. He/she knows that most people can't fly, and that spell casters typically wear robes and not armor. Here are some tactics that a Dragon would and should use.
Focus fire all attacks on one target with intent to kill.
Use the Attack Action to grapple a PC then fly off with them. Now the dragon has either a bargaining chip, or can just drop the PC (no action required) making them suffer a d6 bludgeoning damage per every 10 feet to a maximum of 20d6. No Save is specified.
Use Lair Actions to target PCs who are concentrating on spells or healers.
If your Dragons use spells- pick ones that disrupt the party instead of damaging them. Good picks are mirror image, phantasmal force, sleep, grease, etc.
Do not engage in melee if you do not have too. Fly around waiting for your breath weapon to recharge and simply use your action to dodge till it is ready and let your lair actions bleed your PC's HP.
Attacks of Opportunity hurt less than full attacks because they can only attack once. If you must enter the melee, fly right out and take the Opportunity Attack instead of a full attack.
A dragon will flee or negotiate the moment it fears it might lose.
Dragons of different colors have different personalities- use them in your Dragons tactics. White Dragons for example, are very primal and do not often engage in conversations with its food. Green Dragons on the other hand have very deceitful tongues.
Dragon fights should be memorable. If your party can simply best a dragon without feeling afraid or without any losses, it kinda downplays how powerful and awesome they are meant to be. If a party of 4-6 PCs can down a Dragon so easily, why do entire cities and armies fall to a dragon? The party should feel the force of a creature so mighty.
Why no responses? Are we intimidated? Hi Dicey! Thanks for the advice!
I'll agree wholeheartedly that Dragons (and, in fact, all Legendary creatures in the Monster Manual) should be memorable fights.
Sometimes through the combat itself, sometimes through the buildup (I also like the territory Lair effects), sometimes through the shock factor (I really like that one time in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen where
the party fights an Adult Blue Dragon at level 1.
But nothing beats personal (party) anecdotes!
I fondly remember a dragon grappling a party member in their jaws, and drawing in a breath. The scrambling of the party to dislodge the ranger from the dragon's maw before he was barbequed in the next round was impressive.
I have no idea why there aren't other responses! I have only just seen this myself.
It's a brilliant read - it has me terrified anew of what a real, well-played dragon can actually do.
(Pssst...! I'd love to see more of these detailing other immense enemies.)
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This is the reason why the thought of having to fight a dragon is absolutely terrifying. My last session I used this fact to my advantage as a DM.
An encounter that happened was two party members on watch hearing the roar of an Adult Dragon. They crit the nature check to determine what caused the roar and so I just straight up said "Its a dragon". The looks of dread and the absolute silence that followed was the most beautiful thing I've heard yet since starting DMing.
Didn't have a chance yet, but looking forward to use Shapechange and transform into that dragon.
First there were Tucker's Kobolds.
But they gained their full power.
Hear! and tremble! for they shall now become
Tucker's Dragons
I confess I drew heavily on Broequis' post on Reddit. Found here
I changed the layout of the area significantly, and they first engaged the dragon on a small island surrounded by a very deep moat.
The tips in the above Reddit thread are amazing, some of my players are veterans and some had never encountered a dragon before.
I used lots of lead up, and they saw parts of the dragon, the tip of a tail, the edge of a wing, or the cloud from the breath weapon in the days leading up to the fight.
The truth is I couldn't say who was more scared of a TPK, them or me.
My players fought valiantly and even though they were on single digits, the encounter was completed.
Much to my joy, the dragon "who was flying off with the healing cleric, was taken to exactly half health by the Tempest cleric, who maximized his spell attack.
The dragon dropped the lady into the moat, and sank to the bottom.
I awarded XP, and loot, and they were strutting about proudly until the next session. When he had licked his wounds and returned.........
Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever.
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This is great! I don't normally like to DM, but after reading this, I almost want to try my hand at it again.
Some great insight there - I find that some DMs use big impressive monsters and undersell them.
Use of effective strategy and planning can really increase the challenge of an encounter.
Something I do when running very intelligent creatures (dragons etc) is recognise that the creature is more intelligent than me, so .... they will have thought of things that I, the DM, won't have thought of.
What does that mean? Well .... when the players do something that surprises you - it didn't surprise the dragon. The dragon is 200 years old and has seen this before. What's more, the dragon not only expected it, but set-up a counter/trap for it. The fact that you, as the DM didn't expect the players to do it is inconsequential. :)
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
As a new DM, I've never made my players fight a dragon and I was intending on adding one in my new campaign. Thank you for the advice, it means a lot!
Can I roll for that?
I once had a GM (after the game session) ask "Why don't PCs ever run away? Why did you stay and drag out that fight you weren't supposed to win?" (we did win).
I turned to him and said "WHAT were we supposed to do? We can't run away! Our slowest people are short or in armor, we were on mountainous terrain, we were without cover, and a dragon flies. When presented with certain death and near certain death I will always take near certain death!"
Personally my character's opinion of fighting a dragon is generally to laugh heartily and remind people "that's a terrible idea." Mostly, I've tried to negotiate with them, and if that doesn't work poison, acid, explosives. Never fight a dragon on it's terms.
When possible always use deception like slaughter a pig, fill it's insides with acid flasks and alchemists fires (whatever that dragon is weak to) and offer meal to it as an opening of negotiations.
In a game, Dragons are dangerous but if they are that hardcore I become tempted to pull out "The Holy Satchel Charge of Alchemist Fire".
Backpack: 2gp, 5lbs
1 cubic foot/30 pounds of gear
Alchemist's Fire (flask): 50gp, 1lb
On a hit, the target takes 1d4 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. A creature can end this damage by using its action to make a DC 10 Dexterity check to extinguish the flames.
Oil (flask): 1sp, 1lb
If the target takes any fire damage before the oil dries (after 1 minute), the target takes an additional 5 fire damage from the burning oil.
29 Alchemist's Fire (flasks)
1 Oil (flask)
1 Backpack
Total Cost: 1,452.1 Gold
Dealing 29d4+5 fire damage Priceless
I can sometimes be accused of played Dungeons & Dragons like it's a Shadowrun game...
You have to be careful what kind of escalation you choose as both a GM and Player.
A dragon should feel like it came from a shadowrun game!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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