Glide. When you fall at least 10 feet above the ground, you can use your reaction to extend your skin membranes to glide horizontally a number of feet equal to your walking speed, and you take 0 damage from the fall. You determine the direction of the glide.
While this iteration is better, my only complaint would be about what happens to the vertical movement of the fall.
RAW, it appears the glide starts as soon as you use your reaction, which you can do at any point while falling, so long as the ground is at least 10 feet beneath you. However, since it doesn't specify what happens to the verticality of the fall (and it is still a fall, nothing says you stop falling), it seems like you still fall 500 feet at the end of the glide movement, but take no damage from the fall.
It would have been better to include something like "While gliding, you descend 1 foot for every 5 feet you glide, and stop falling at the end of this movement"
Mechanically, while the distance you can glide is now equal to your speed, it doesn't actually consume your speed, so this new version is essentially a reaction dash. If you can jump at least 10 feet (or just fly somehow), and use your reaction on your turn, you can use your glide movement in addition to your walking movement (or a fly speed) for the round.
Again though, way better than what it was, but still a tad cheesy.
--ORIGINAL POST--
For context, from the Hadozee (as printed in review copies):
Glide. If you are not incapacitated or wearing heavy armor, you can extend your skin membranes and glide. When you do so, you can perform the following aerial maneuvers:
You can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you.
When you would take damage from a fall, you can use your reaction to reduce the fall's damage to 0.
And the rules for Falling, from Xanathars guide:
Rate of Falling
The rule for falling assumes that a creature immediately drops the entire distance when it falls. But what if a creature is at a high altitude when it falls, perhaps on the back of a griffon or on board an airship? Realistically, a fall from such a height can take more than a few seconds, extending past the end of the turn when the fall occurred. If you’d like high-altitude falls to be properly time-consuming, use the following optional rule.
When you fall from a great height, you instantly descend up to 500 feet. If you’re still falling on your next turn, you descend up to 500 feet at the end of that turn. This process continues until the fall ends, either because you hit the ground or the fall is otherwise halted.
So taking these rules in tandem, this means a Hadozee character can, RAW, move up to 2,500 ft each time they fall, which can be 5,000 ft on a single turn if they fall on their turn and then end their turn falling (provided they have at least 1,000 ft of elevation). I made a mistake, the fall continues on their next turn, not the same turn. So they would need to ready their action to move right before their next turn and gain this benefit, triggering the reaction before their turn and continuing their fall on their turn.
I reported this issue in the survey for this content, the same issue that has been around since ravnica released and the Simic Hybrid could also do this, and still no change has been made.
Am i reading this wrong? Obviously the DM can rule that their vertical velocity is lost when they glide, so they may not fall the full 500 ft vertically each time they fall, but even if you treat their horizontal movement as a part if their total fall distance, thats still roughly 400 ft of horizontal movement at 1st level.
Like, if the horizontal movement actually cost them their normal speed like jumping does, and made it so they dont fall twice in a round, then that would at least be somewhat balanced (not even discussing that they have infinitely better fall damage negation than monks), but this actually seems busted to me.
Get the jump spell, have a decent strength, leap 15 feat in the air, and now you have a 75 ft fly speed on flat ground every turn, AND you can still use whats left of your movement after the glide to potentially jump AGAIN and fly further.
EDIT: For anyone wanting practical combat implications;
Even just having a 30 ft walk speed and doing a normal high jump, you can move an extra 15+ feet for free in combat (+5 ft x your STR mod), potentially multiple times per turn. Do this repeatedly instead of walking normally, with 5 ft hops becoming 25ft of glide per hop, your effective move speed with no buffs or levels is 150ft.
Theres no action requirement, theres no movement cost to the flight itself, and if you dont jump higher than 10 ft, theres no fall damage either (reaction not needed).
I don't see the purpose of discussing RAW that doesn't even exist yet, but I'll point out that your purported version of Hadozee Glide is so much better than the Simic Hybrid version that it's completely implausible, even by WOTC's incredibly lax standards (I'm aware of several OP new races in MPMM, including the new Bugbear). We should assume your translation is incorrect until we actually see it in front of us.
I would read the aerial maneuver as being some controlled movement (gliding), not falling - so you can descend up to 30 feet vertically (if your standard move is 30 ft), and moving 150 feet horizontally.
To be honest, it doesn't make any sense to have this as a written rule anyway - the movement implications are crazy!
I would read the aerial maneuver as being some controlled movement (gliding), not falling - so you can descend up to 30 feet vertically (if your standard move is 30 ft), and moving 150 feet horizontally.
To be honest, it doesn't make any sense to have this as a written rule anyway - the movement implications are crazy!
The problem is that there is still no specification for how far you fall/descend vertically while gliding. They could have easily capped it at 10ft or something so your not approaching the sound barrier, but no, i don't know what could have spurred them to release it like this. Did they not think for half a second to ask how far someone falls at once?
Alternatively, they could have made it that you have to fall a certain amount, say 15 ft or more, in order to use the trait. At the very least then, you couldnt abuse it in combat easily.
Maybe it’s supposed to mean you don’t count the vertical movement, just the horizontal?
Like i said, even if you count the horizontal movement as "falling", thats still about 400ft of movement on a turn, no buffs and completely free. And if you do 1 ft hops on your turn in combat, using all your walking speed just for jumping, you get 5 ft of glide per foot of movement spent. The trait effectively multiples your walking speed by 5 on flat land, and by even more when moving downhill.
Once you're gliding, you're no longer falling, so you don't descend 500 feet.
When you're gliding "you can move" 5 feet for every foot you descend. Sounds like it takes movement to me, just like jumping does. If your move speed is 30, you can glide 30 feet and during that movement you descend 6 feet.
The 1 ft hop thing is clearly abuse and any DM is well within their limits to just say no. And again, just by interpreting gliding as movement you can shut this whole thing down.
When you're gliding "you can move" 5 feet for every foot you descend. Sounds like it takes movement to me, just like jumping does. If your move speed is 30, you can glide 30 feet and during that movement you descend 6 feet.
This is a better version of what I was trying to say. You can only glide the 30 feet your move would allow. But the 6 feet down doesn’t count against it. The vertical movement doesn’t count, is maybe what it’s trying to say.
Once you're gliding, you're no longer falling, so you don't descend 500 feet.
Clever!
When you're gliding "you can move" 5 feet for every foot you descend. Sounds like it takes movement to me, just like jumping does. If your move speed is 30, you can glide 30 feet and during that movement you descend 6 feet.
Review copies are out my guy.... im not mistranslating. I wish i was
Then this is the wrong forum for debating OP vs not OP, but I can tell you for certain that this means RAW Hadozee movement "30 feet" really means "150 feet" since the creature can High Jump 1 foot while standing still, scoot 5 feet while descending, and repeat 29 more times. That's without Dashing. And as you pointed out, with a high cliff to fall from, they can move 2500 feet in a single turn.
You can expect exactly 0 DMs to obey this RAW in practice - you can already see people in this very thread pretending the RAW doesn't say what it does, but in practice, every DM will either ban the race or house-rule its glide.
I can tell you for certain that this means RAW Hadozee movement "30 feet" really means "150 feet" since the creature can High Jump 1 foot while standing still, scoot 5 feet while descending, and repeat 29 more times. That's without Dashing. And as you pointed out, with a high cliff to fall from, they can move 2500 feet in a single turn.
You can expect exactly 0 DMs to obey this RAW in practice - you can already see people in this very thread pretending the RAW doesn't say what it does, but in practice, every DM will either ban the race or house-rule its glide.
I can tell you for certain that this means RAW Hadozee movement "30 feet" really means "150 feet" since the creature can High Jump 1 foot while standing still, scoot 5 feet while descending, and repeat 29 more times. That's without Dashing. And as you pointed out, with a high cliff to fall from, they can move 2500 feet in a single turn.
You can expect exactly 0 DMs to obey this RAW in practice - you can already see people in this very thread pretending the RAW doesn't say what it does, but in practice, every DM will either ban the race or house-rule its glide.
Care to explain why scatterbraind is wrong?
The words "at no movement cost to you" seems to directly state that the glide does not cost the Hadozee's movement.
If they intended that to specifically mean just the vertical descent and not the horizontal movement they could straight up say "The vertical portion of this glide does not cost you movement."
I can tell you for certain that this means RAW Hadozee movement "30 feet" really means "150 feet" since the creature can High Jump 1 foot while standing still, scoot 5 feet while descending, and repeat 29 more times. That's without Dashing. And as you pointed out, with a high cliff to fall from, they can move 2500 feet in a single turn.
You can expect exactly 0 DMs to obey this RAW in practice - you can already see people in this very thread pretending the RAW doesn't say what it does, but in practice, every DM will either ban the race or house-rule its glide.
Care to explain why scatterbraind is wrong?
The words "at no movement cost to you" seems to directly state that the glide does not cost the Hadozee's movement.
If they intended that to specifically mean just the vertical descent and not the horizontal movement they could straight up say "The vertical portion of this glide does not cost you movement."
I didn't even catch that part. Hm.
Though, it's still possible you're not falling when you're gliding, which would leave us with no way to know how much vertical distance you travel in a turn. Which is a problem in itself.
Yeah... RAW, you're correct. It's genuinely hard to believe this rule made it through QC. Every thread I see talking about it is full of people claiming that the RAW is incorrect. I feel for them, because it does not make any sense and is a bad rule. This will 100% get erratad.
What's wilder is that the text is slightly different from the 2021 UA which states:
When you fall, you can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend.
But in that screenshot it states:
You can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you.
So before it was unclear if gliding cost your movement while now it clearly does not. However, they have removed "when you fall," which further muddies whether or not you descend at the same rate as a fall while gliding, which as ChoirOfFire put it is a problem in itself.
Edit: Interestingly since now it specifies "air" gliding simply doesn't work underwater which makes sense.
I would rule it as they continue to fall but instead of straight down they fall at an angle and unless they spend their reaction to avoid the damage, they take damage based on the total distance they fell.
You are gliding when you fall otherwise it wouldn't work. So long as you descend in the air, you can glide X5. It's good when you fall, but some people will abuse it by jump and glide and multiply their movement in a turn.
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--UPDATE 03/09/2022--
New glide rules released today:
While this iteration is better, my only complaint would be about what happens to the vertical movement of the fall.
RAW, it appears the glide starts as soon as you use your reaction, which you can do at any point while falling, so long as the ground is at least 10 feet beneath you. However, since it doesn't specify what happens to the verticality of the fall (and it is still a fall, nothing says you stop falling), it seems like you still fall 500 feet at the end of the glide movement, but take no damage from the fall.
It would have been better to include something like "While gliding, you descend 1 foot for every 5 feet you glide, and stop falling at the end of this movement"
Mechanically, while the distance you can glide is now equal to your speed, it doesn't actually consume your speed, so this new version is essentially a reaction dash. If you can jump at least 10 feet (or just fly somehow), and use your reaction on your turn, you can use your glide movement in addition to your walking movement (or a fly speed) for the round.
Again though, way better than what it was, but still a tad cheesy.
--ORIGINAL POST--
For context, from the Hadozee (as printed in review copies):
And the rules for Falling, from Xanathars guide:
So taking these rules in tandem, this means a Hadozee character can, RAW, move up to 2,500 ft each time they fall,
which can be 5,000 ft on a single turn if they fall on their turn and then end their turn falling (provided they have at least 1,000 ft of elevation).I made a mistake, the fall continues on their next turn, not the same turn. So they would need to ready their action to move right before their next turn and gain this benefit, triggering the reaction before their turn and continuing their fall on their turn.I reported this issue in the survey for this content, the same issue that has been around since ravnica released and the Simic Hybrid could also do this, and still no change has been made.
Am i reading this wrong? Obviously the DM can rule that their vertical velocity is lost when they glide, so they may not fall the full 500 ft vertically each time they fall, but even if you treat their horizontal movement as a part if their total fall distance, thats still roughly 400 ft of horizontal movement at 1st level.
Like, if the horizontal movement actually cost them their normal speed like jumping does, and made it so they dont fall twice in a round, then that would at least be somewhat balanced (not even discussing that they have infinitely better fall damage negation than monks), but this actually seems busted to me.
Get the jump spell, have a decent strength, leap 15 feat in the air, and now you have a 75 ft fly speed on flat ground every turn, AND you can still use whats left of your movement after the glide to potentially jump AGAIN and fly further.
EDIT: For anyone wanting practical combat implications;
Even just having a 30 ft walk speed and doing a normal high jump, you can move an extra 15+ feet for free in combat (+5 ft x your STR mod), potentially multiple times per turn. Do this repeatedly instead of walking normally, with 5 ft hops becoming 25ft of glide per hop, your effective move speed with no buffs or levels is 150ft.
Theres no action requirement, theres no movement cost to the flight itself, and if you dont jump higher than 10 ft, theres no fall damage either (reaction not needed).
I don't see the purpose of discussing RAW that doesn't even exist yet, but I'll point out that your purported version of Hadozee Glide is so much better than the Simic Hybrid version that it's completely implausible, even by WOTC's incredibly lax standards (I'm aware of several OP new races in MPMM, including the new Bugbear). We should assume your translation is incorrect until we actually see it in front of us.
Review copies are out my guy.... im not mistranslating. I wish i was
I would read the aerial maneuver as being some controlled movement (gliding), not falling - so you can descend up to 30 feet vertically (if your standard move is 30 ft), and moving 150 feet horizontally.
To be honest, it doesn't make any sense to have this as a written rule anyway - the movement implications are crazy!
So they made the Wave Dash even better.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Maybe it’s supposed to mean you don’t count the vertical movement, just the horizontal?
The problem is that there is still no specification for how far you fall/descend vertically while gliding. They could have easily capped it at 10ft or something so your not approaching the sound barrier, but no, i don't know what could have spurred them to release it like this. Did they not think for half a second to ask how far someone falls at once?
Alternatively, they could have made it that you have to fall a certain amount, say 15 ft or more, in order to use the trait. At the very least then, you couldnt abuse it in combat easily.
Like i said, even if you count the horizontal movement as "falling", thats still about 400ft of movement on a turn, no buffs and completely free. And if you do 1 ft hops on your turn in combat, using all your walking speed just for jumping, you get 5 ft of glide per foot of movement spent. The trait effectively multiples your walking speed by 5 on flat land, and by even more when moving downhill.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I noticed how broken the glide was back in UA, but it looks like nobody listened to us. 🤷♂️
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This is a better version of what I was trying to say. You can only glide the 30 feet your move would allow. But the 6 feet down doesn’t count against it. The vertical movement doesn’t count, is maybe what it’s trying to say.
Clever!
Sounds right to me.
Then this is the wrong forum for debating OP vs not OP, but I can tell you for certain that this means RAW Hadozee movement "30 feet" really means "150 feet" since the creature can High Jump 1 foot while standing still, scoot 5 feet while descending, and repeat 29 more times. That's without Dashing. And as you pointed out, with a high cliff to fall from, they can move 2500 feet in a single turn.
You can expect exactly 0 DMs to obey this RAW in practice - you can already see people in this very thread pretending the RAW doesn't say what it does, but in practice, every DM will either ban the race or house-rule its glide.
Care to explain why scatterbraind is wrong?
Yup
My current character getting introduced next session is a hadozee
The words "at no movement cost to you" seems to directly state that the glide does not cost the Hadozee's movement.
If they intended that to specifically mean just the vertical descent and not the horizontal movement they could straight up say "The vertical portion of this glide does not cost you movement."
I didn't even catch that part. Hm.
Though, it's still possible you're not falling when you're gliding, which would leave us with no way to know how much vertical distance you travel in a turn. Which is a problem in itself.
Yeah... RAW, you're correct. It's genuinely hard to believe this rule made it through QC. Every thread I see talking about it is full of people claiming that the RAW is incorrect. I feel for them, because it does not make any sense and is a bad rule. This will 100% get erratad.
What's wilder is that the text is slightly different from the 2021 UA which states:
But in that screenshot it states:
So before it was unclear if gliding cost your movement while now it clearly does not. However, they have removed "when you fall," which further muddies whether or not you descend at the same rate as a fall while gliding, which as ChoirOfFire put it is a problem in itself.
Edit: Interestingly since now it specifies "air" gliding simply doesn't work underwater which makes sense.
I would rule it as they continue to fall but instead of straight down they fall at an angle and unless they spend their reaction to avoid the damage, they take damage based on the total distance they fell.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You are gliding when you fall otherwise it wouldn't work. So long as you descend in the air, you can glide X5. It's good when you fall, but some people will abuse it by jump and glide and multiply their movement in a turn.