So Ive only been DM for about a now month and having fun, but I'm having trouble making my game challenging enough. I have a few tanks in my party that can boost thier characters AC to over 23. Combined that with the ability to challenge all my monsters to only fight only them with wisdom saves. It's gotten to the point where I can only hit the party if my monsters roll a critical hit. I don't want to kill the party just make it more of a challenge. Anyone have any monster suggestion?
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
How exactly did they manage to boost their AC to 23? That seems pretty early if they're starting at level 1
And I would suggest many enemies of low danger that crowd the party, it gives the appearance of an all out brawl, while they probably won't get too many hits in. A fight doesn't have to be hard to be good, it just has to be memorable
The party has 6 members and they are level 7, monster CR is between 1-8
My questions now are what monsters have you been throwing at them, and what classes are being played in your campaign exactly? If it's a group largely made up of tanks then I'd say you have some work cut out for you, but allowing the party to acknowledge the fact that they're near unkillable will make it even more badass when you start throwing hoards of enemies at them and they manage to just make it through.
My advise would be to have a look at Encounter Calculators online to help you balance out your combat if you're looking to make a fight particularly hard or easy. While they're not perfectly accurate, they can give you a good basis to go off of, DHMstark has a pretty good one that I use often. Also, consider the fact that you can always up your monsters ability to hit. A goblin has a +4 to hit because they're both not very strong or well-trained, but you have complete freedom to decide 1 particular goblin is a war veteran, with a higher proficiency bonus and higher strength score, so his bonus to hit is +8, this also goes for damage as well as spells.
As Lloyd pointed out, you don't need to always hit to have a good fight. But if you're feeling that your own fun is being diminished, consider bumping up the CR of the monsters, perhaps set it between 3 to 10. Or, try hitting other party members, the ones in robes or light armor. Try out monsters who are less focused on the hack and slash battles and hit players were it really hurts. Green hags, mind flayers, oni, devils, and fey creatures all have tricks up their sleeves that can make them incredibly powerful and haunting when played right.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Don't pay too much attention to CR ratings, every group is different and synergies, optimization,and magic items (CR ratings assume no magic items in the game) can make big, big differences. Also with 6 players int he group, you need to up the challenge right there - a 6 player group is probably twice as strong as a 4 player group due to synergies.
A few suggestions
1 - Make sure the players are getting their high AC legitimately - its easy to accidentally stack things that shouldn't stack, you can always describe how they are doing it here and people will let you know if its right or not.
2 - Make sure when they "challenge" a monster they are doing it right. I have an Oath of the Crown Paladin in my game that thought Champion Challenge would force an enemy to target only them, when really it only limits how far the enemy can move away from them, a very different thing.
3 - Find ways to limit the group's ability to rest - even a series of easy battles get harder as spell slots and abilities get used up.
4 - Don't be afraid to go well over suggested CR, use the environment, use ranged attackers, AOE attackers, spell casters, and change up your NPC tactics - start making your enemies more concerned about their own survival - have them run, regroup, or change tactics earlier when things aren't going their way.
How exactly did they manage to boost their AC to 23? That seems pretty early if they're starting at level 1
And I would suggest many enemies of low danger that crowd the party, it gives the appearance of an all out brawl, while they probably won't get too many hits in. A fight doesn't have to be hard to be good, it just has to be memorable
They are barbarians with shields so base AC is 23 and a cleric spell they go to 25 AC
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
They are barbarians with shields so base AC is 23 and a cleric spell they go to 25 AC
Max Stat = +5, so 10 +5 Dex +5 Con +2 shield = 22 + cleric spell is 24. Unless I'm missing something.
Easiest solutions to your plight would be to find ways of using spells, effects, terrain, and other effects that work around the AC of the players. Otherwise you can simply ramp up the challenge of the monsters, with those kinds of bonuses you can easily add 2 to the CR of monsters that your players are facing. Bounded accuracy was implemented to avoid inflating numbers to absurd amounts, your players have inflated their numbers, you may have to give them the same in return.
While I don't like having to find ways to thwart characters, these ones seem to leave little choice. Spells and effects that require a saving throw will not be impacted by high AC. They have optimal Dex saves but many of those spells and effects still apply half damage on a save.
Thanks for all the great advice! I'm working on altering my encounters now, and with Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes. I now have some new fiends to throw at the party. My campaign revolves around the party closing portals into the 9 levels of Hell.
Thanks for all the great advice! I'm working on altering my encounters now, and with Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes. I now have some new fiends to throw at the party. My campaign revolves around the party closing portals into the 9 levels of Hell.
All your advice really helped! Yesterday my tank was hurting 34/114 HP. I used the Sibriex monster and used feeble mind on a few charatchars too it was awesome. Im actually shocked the party survived, they found the monsters teleportation circle and decided to take on the boss room early. It was my hope they would be level 9 not 7 taking on this fight.
I second the suggestion of using groups of enemies. Even a nearly unhittable tank is going to run into problems if 4 devils knock them prone and grapple them so they can't stand back up. The devils don't have to be powerful individually to pose a threat or take a combatant out of the fight.
All your advice really helped! Yesterday my tank was hurting 34/114 HP. I used the Sibriex monster and used feeble mind on a few charatchars too it was awesome. Im actually shocked the party survived, they found the monsters teleportation circle and decided to take on the boss room early. It was my hope they would be level 9 not 7 taking on this fight.
That's wonderful to hear! Sibriex is a fun and dangerous monster
You didn't mention which version you were using. I'll just assume it is 5E. In 3E there are 5 Monster Manuals, many of which have higher CR monsters ,
and monsters which are in the same family as other monsters. Spiders, for instance, will band together, a charismatic Harpoon Spider can convince Ettercaps and
large spiders, as well as other spider kin, to flank or ambush your party. Evil wizards use Beserkers, and Brigands, and can sometimes even charm the undead for
a special challenge to your party. I'm not sure if 5E has the additional Monster Manuals, but Version 3 surely does. Combine traps and ambush attacks, it negates all
Also don't be afraid for an intelligent enemy to use it's 2nd attack to stab a downed PC to make them auto-fail a death save. Keeps the pressure on and shows them in no uncertain terms that the monsters are out for blood.
Also don't be afraid for an intelligent enemy to use it's 2nd attack to stab a downed PC to make them auto-fail a death save. Keeps the pressure on and shows them in no uncertain terms that the monsters are out for blood.
So Ive only been DM for about a now month and having fun, but I'm having trouble making my game challenging enough. I have a few tanks in my party that can boost thier characters AC to over 23. Combined that with the ability to challenge all my monsters to only fight only them with wisdom saves. It's gotten to the point where I can only hit the party if my monsters roll a critical hit. I don't want to kill the party just make it more of a challenge. Anyone have any monster suggestion?
What level is your party and what's the average CR of the monsters they're fighting?
Tooltips | Snippet Code | How to Homebrew on D&D Beyond | Subclass Guide | Feature Roadmap
Astromancer's Homebrew Assembly
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
AoE dex saved spell based monsters, monsters that can dominate, if they are strong with AC hit them with spells or traps (or make up a monster).
How exactly did they manage to boost their AC to 23? That seems pretty early if they're starting at level 1
And I would suggest many enemies of low danger that crowd the party, it gives the appearance of an all out brawl, while they probably won't get too many hits in. A fight doesn't have to be hard to be good, it just has to be memorable
"Roll for kink."
My homebrews - Naturalcrit
The party has 6 members and they are level 7, monster CR is between 1-8
"Roll for kink."
My homebrews - Naturalcrit
As Lloyd pointed out, you don't need to always hit to have a good fight. But if you're feeling that your own fun is being diminished, consider bumping up the CR of the monsters, perhaps set it between 3 to 10. Or, try hitting other party members, the ones in robes or light armor. Try out monsters who are less focused on the hack and slash battles and hit players were it really hurts. Green hags, mind flayers, oni, devils, and fey creatures all have tricks up their sleeves that can make them incredibly powerful and haunting when played right.
Tooltips | Snippet Code | How to Homebrew on D&D Beyond | Subclass Guide | Feature Roadmap
Astromancer's Homebrew Assembly
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Don't pay too much attention to CR ratings, every group is different and synergies, optimization,and magic items (CR ratings assume no magic items in the game) can make big, big differences. Also with 6 players int he group, you need to up the challenge right there - a 6 player group is probably twice as strong as a 4 player group due to synergies.
A few suggestions
1 - Make sure the players are getting their high AC legitimately - its easy to accidentally stack things that shouldn't stack, you can always describe how they are doing it here and people will let you know if its right or not.
2 - Make sure when they "challenge" a monster they are doing it right. I have an Oath of the Crown Paladin in my game that thought Champion Challenge would force an enemy to target only them, when really it only limits how far the enemy can move away from them, a very different thing.
3 - Find ways to limit the group's ability to rest - even a series of easy battles get harder as spell slots and abilities get used up.
4 - Don't be afraid to go well over suggested CR, use the environment, use ranged attackers, AOE attackers, spell casters, and change up your NPC tactics - start making your enemies more concerned about their own survival - have them run, regroup, or change tactics earlier when things aren't going their way.
That means they have constitution and dexterity modifiers that add up to 11? That's only possible with magical items or at much higher levels!
Tooltips | Snippet Code | How to Homebrew on D&D Beyond | Subclass Guide | Feature Roadmap
Astromancer's Homebrew Assembly
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Max Stat = +5, so 10 +5 Dex +5 Con +2 shield = 22 + cleric spell is 24. Unless I'm missing something.
Easiest solutions to your plight would be to find ways of using spells, effects, terrain, and other effects that work around the AC of the players. Otherwise you can simply ramp up the challenge of the monsters, with those kinds of bonuses you can easily add 2 to the CR of monsters that your players are facing. Bounded accuracy was implemented to avoid inflating numbers to absurd amounts, your players have inflated their numbers, you may have to give them the same in return.
While I don't like having to find ways to thwart characters, these ones seem to leave little choice. Spells and effects that require a saving throw will not be impacted by high AC. They have optimal Dex saves but many of those spells and effects still apply half damage on a save.
Thanks for all the great advice! I'm working on altering my encounters now, and with Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes. I now have some new fiends to throw at the party. My campaign revolves around the party closing portals into the 9 levels of Hell.
"Roll for kink."
My homebrews - Naturalcrit
All your advice really helped! Yesterday my tank was hurting 34/114 HP. I used the Sibriex monster and used feeble mind on a few charatchars too it was awesome. Im actually shocked the party survived, they found the monsters teleportation circle and decided to take on the boss room early. It was my hope they would be level 9 not 7 taking on this fight.
I second the suggestion of using groups of enemies. Even a nearly unhittable tank is going to run into problems if 4 devils knock them prone and grapple them so they can't stand back up. The devils don't have to be powerful individually to pose a threat or take a combatant out of the fight.
"Roll for kink."
My homebrews - Naturalcrit
You didn't mention which version you were using. I'll just assume it is 5E. In 3E there are 5 Monster Manuals, many of which have higher CR monsters ,
and monsters which are in the same family as other monsters. Spiders, for instance, will band together, a charismatic Harpoon Spider can convince Ettercaps and
large spiders, as well as other spider kin, to flank or ambush your party. Evil wizards use Beserkers, and Brigands, and can sometimes even charm the undead for
a special challenge to your party. I'm not sure if 5E has the additional Monster Manuals, but Version 3 surely does. Combine traps and ambush attacks, it negates all
initiatives.
Also don't be afraid for an intelligent enemy to use it's 2nd attack to stab a downed PC to make them auto-fail a death save. Keeps the pressure on and shows them in no uncertain terms that the monsters are out for blood.
Southampton Guild of Roleplayers
My YouTube (C&C Welcome!)
Also don't be afraid for an intelligent enemy to use it's 2nd attack to stab a downed PC to make them auto-fail a death save. Keeps the pressure on and shows them in no uncertain terms that the monsters are out for blood.
Southampton Guild of Roleplayers
My YouTube (C&C Welcome!)