> One of the disadvantages is the multiple attribute dependency (MAD) of the multiclass
as a Hexblade I get to use CHA instead of STR for my weapon attacks so I focus my efforts there and a take just enough STR to multiclass, I wear medium armor so I don't have to build CON for AC, and I don't need WIS or INT for anything aside from some class skills that I didn't take. So I ended up building STR+2 CON+2 DEX+2 INT-1 WIS-1 CHA+3 enough to multiclass, get my highest AC, have decent hit points, and max out my casting/attacking stat
> As a warlock 2, you will only have two castings of the 1st level spell. You don't get 2nd level slots until warlock 3, and even then you only get 2 castings per short rest.
The second level casting of Armor of Agathys comes from a racial feature of the Levistus Tiefling.
Just remember that you won't get the +2 damage from Rage if you're using your Charisma as your attack stat.
One other thing that you may discover with your lack of Wisdom is your Wisdom saves will suffer for it. Effects that target Wisdom saves are often used against Barbarians since they are so hard to kill. I discount this when people talk about Barbs being MAD because it is campaign dependent and Wisdom isn't specifically needed for abilities on all Barbs aside from skills and saves (which I don't consider when evaluating how MAD a class is since you'll want those skills higher on any character that you want to be proficient in them). It's still good to take them into account when creating your character.
I have a concept for a celestial warlock | barb MC. I think it would be viable. The basic premise is using Armor of Agathys (AoA) which doesn't require concentration in round one, then entering rage as a bonus action. Blade pact, and thirsting blade to get my two attacks in. Eldritch smite should be able to be used during a rage (it's not casting a spell) and your healing light can also be used while raging. if you have an abjurer in the party to hook you up with their arcane ward, it's even better.
I did a quick comparison a week ago or so; at the level my current party is (7), against one of the Sahuagin Champions that my party fought in our last session the barb AoA then raged on round 1. Sahuagin champ hit the barb three times for an average of 7, reduced to 3 by rage. 3 hits against a level 3 AoA took off 9 THP, and dealt 45 points to the Sahuagin Champ. Round 2, the Barb flexed and did nothing else. Sahuagin champion hit twice for an average of 7, reduced to 3 and took off the last 6 THP from AoA, and dealt 30 points of damage to the Sahuagin Champ. He never got his third attack because he only had 71 hp and died on the damage shield, while the barb was at full health.
That's obviously not a representative combat, it shows the potential. With thirsting blade, the barblock will swing his greatsword twice a round. He uses one spellslot for AoA, and has a second slot to eldritch smite with. It's not super MAD...because I don't care about my charisma. I'm not casting in combat, so it's not really relevant I have a 14 because I went half elf and that's just how the numbers worked out, so if I /need/ to fight from range, I have sacred flame. I can self heal in combat with a bonus action using healing light. I tried to pick utility spells that don't care about charisma for use outside combat. I see no reason why the character wouldn't be entirely viable, it just requires careful spell selection and a plan how to make the two classes synergize.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Looking back at OP's build, one relevant thing no one brought up is the Reckless Strikes also requires that you use STR to attack, so it is incompatible with a CHA focus via Hexblade. Since he mentioned a high crit chance due to Elven Accuracy, I assume he was relying on RS for advantage.
You can still get Hexblade benefits while using STR though. I agree its an interesting combo. Will definitely play around with it.
1- If you use CHA for attack and damage rolls with the ability given by the Hexblade Warlock, you won’t be able to add the damage bonus from your rage because you need to use STR for that.
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.
2- And you won’t be able to use the Reckless Attack either for the same reason. So your Elven Accuracy and Reckless Attack won’t work.
Starting at 2nd level, you can throw aside all concern for defense to attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn.
My plan was to go barb 1 (for rage), then push warlock hard to get warlock 9 for 5th level spells ASAP. Along the way I'd pick up the thirsting blade invocation to get an extra weapon swing in there. Then barb 3 to pick up Zealot. My end goal would be warlock 11, for 3 5th level spell slots. I don't care about the mystic arcanum, but I do care about the extra spell slot. Why do I care about the extra spell slot? Because I will be eldritch smiting with the two that don't get used for Armor of Agathys. I can't cast the spells, but I can still smite with them. Reckless attack will give me more chances to win the crit lottery, and when that crit comes up, eldritch smite should lay some very serious pain.
The rest would be barbarian. When I get barb 6 and can multi-attack, I'd dump thirsting blade. So likely celestial warlock 11, zealot barbarian 9 would be my final build. I haven't dug in /too/ deeply to see if more barbarian would be of better benefit, but for what I was looking for, I don't think so.
First thoughts after looking at it, I think I might prefer to start warlock at level 1. Str and con saves are nice, but barbs are notoriously weak in mental saves, so getting my prof bonus in cha and wis would be helpful. I'd probably drop the cantrip and pick up elf weapon training, so I can use a longsword at level 1. I didn't spend much time looking at spells, mostly I'd want to take out of combat spells, rather than in combat spells. Things with no conc or attack/save utility type stuff would be my go-to picks. I am using warlock to make a bettermartial, not using barbarian to make a better spellcaster.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yes, it looks better starting off as warlock 1. The saves are much better balanced. I also dropped an ASI to pick up PAM. I traded in the greataxe for a halberd. A bonus action attack to stack on more rage damage is more important to me than a slightly bigger damage die for crit purposes. Adding an OA when something enters reach is also very tasty. I think this looks pretty playable.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Really nice build crzyhawk, I remember we talked briefly about it in another thread. Always a fan of a good spellslinger Barbarian. So many people see spells and rage and claw their eyes out, but I love it. The barbarian is basically completely bereft of utility, and spells are just perfect for that.
There is a hiccup in your play pattern though. If you take your first action in combat to cast AoA and then rage the same turn, you will immediately drop the rage once you pass the turn since you haven't attacked or dealt damage. Considering AoA's one hour duration I think that can be worked around fairly regularly with a party that stresses scouting and preparation. I would probably add a fighter dip somewhere to this build to be able to action surge in the entire combo on turn one when circumstances don't permit the prep cast.
Huh, there's also a bit of a clash with the Celestial's level 10 ability to give you temp HP after each rest. Just found it while looking at the classes and thinking about a progression. Don't think it's the end of the world as more temp HP to stack with rage is good, but it is a bit awkward. I really, really like the addition of Healing Light as an ability you can use while raging, so I think I'd stick with Celestial.
I had this whole thing about starting with five levels of warlock typed out, but then I realized the build would be stuck with light armor the whole time unless it drops Celestial for Hexblade (vom). Hmm. Gonna have to think about this one. I really like getting proficiency in wisdom saves and getting to third level spells and thirsting blade as quickly as possible.
Really nice build crzyhawk, I remember we talked briefly about it in another thread. Always a fan of a good spellslinger Barbarian. So many people see spells and rage and claw their eyes out, but I love it. The barbarian is basically completely bereft of utility, and spells are just perfect for that.
There is a hiccup in your play pattern though. If you take your first action in combat to cast AoA and then rage the same turn, you will immediately drop the rage once you pass the turn since you haven't attacked or dealt damage. Considering AoA's one hour duration I think that can be worked around fairly regularly with a party that stresses scouting and preparation. I would probably add a fighter dip somewhere to this build to be able to action surge in the entire combo on turn one when circumstances don't permit the prep cast.
Huh, there's also a bit of a clash with the Celestial's level 10 ability to give you temp HP after each rest. Just found it while looking at the classes and thinking about a progression. Don't think it's the end of the world as more temp HP to stack with rage is good, but it is a bit awkward. I really, really like the addition of Healing Light as an ability you can use while raging, so I think I'd stick with Celestial.
I had this whole thing about starting with five levels of warlock typed out, but then I realized the build would be stuck with light armor the whole time unless it drops Celestial for Hexblade (vom). Hmm. Gonna have to think about this one. I really like getting proficiency in wisdom saves and getting to third level spells and thirsting blade as quickly as possible.
Getting Armor of Agathys up, raging, and then moving to provoke a OA would be a way to not drop the rage. Otherwise, there's no reason to try to rage turn one. That does mean that you aren't getting to use your bonus action until turn two for rage and turn three for anything else that you might have like the PAM bonus action. However, causing a creature to lose it's reaction by attacking you, dealing some damage to it from AoA and preserving your Rage does have some merit, especially if you'll be able to resist the incoming damage. The RP moment of having someone attack you and get hurt doing it could be a nice little deterrent or a lovely morale breaker if you have set up shop in a choke point and the enemy has to get past you to attack the rest of the party. The potential trade off from actual HP to Temp HP can somewhat make up for the deficiency in HP by dropping from the d12 hit die to the d8.
If you use standard array for str 15, dex 12, con 14, int 8, wis 10, cha 13, you could put the racial bonuses in str and con to have 16, 12, 16, 8, 10, 13 and have 14 AC just from unarmored defense. Picking up a spear or quarterstaff and a shield will allow you to be up to 16 AC and still use PAM until you can get something better. It's not as nice as having scale armor to have a 15 AC without a shield and 17 with, but being right around that 16 AC mark early in a campaign is usually pretty good for a barbarian. If you stay more ranged before you get into the barbarian levels, it becomes less of a problem. Celestial Warlock does come with Sacred Flame by default, which means that you don't have to use a cantrip on Eldritch Blast if you don't want to do so. I don't think that being stuck with light armor is as big of a deal. You can always flip the dex and con (not ideal) if you want to max out the AC otherwise. There is also the option to take Armor of Shadows invocation for Mage Armor at will until you can get unarmored defense up and running, then take one more warlock level to move off of Armor of Shadows for something more ideal. Another option would be to take the Devil's sight invocation if you have someone in the party that can reliably cast Darkness on you and the party is willing to work with you. And the ultimate kicker would be if you have a cavalier that wants to be in the scrum with you, marking creatures to give them disadvantage to any attack that they make against you. The choice between attacking a heavily armored person and a squishier person who is hard to hit and stings back is an interesting conundrum for enemies, especially if they are having to push through you to get to the others that are really dropping the hurt on them.
Yes, it looks better starting off as warlock 1. The saves are much better balanced. I also dropped an ASI to pick up PAM. I traded in the greataxe for a halberd. A bonus action attack to stack on more rage damage is more important to me than a slightly bigger damage die for crit purposes. Adding an OA when something enters reach is also very tasty. I think this looks pretty playable.
It's funny, we posted about wanting to start with warlock at pretty much the exact same time. I like these changes of yours. One thing though, the build isn't actually proficient in medium armor. Barbarian multiclass confers proficiency in shields, simple weapons and martial weapons only. This is a tough dance, because those saves look so much better.
Getting Armor of Agathys up, raging, and then moving to provoke a OA would be a way to not drop the rage. Otherwise, there's no reason to try to rage turn one.
That is a fun little tactic. Don't know how I feel about inviting more attacks, but I love the creativity. Very clever.
I disagree that there is no reason to rage turn one though. In fact, I think there is a huge incentive to rage immediately because it greatly extends the longevity of AoA.
I'm also concerned about the survivability of a low level celestial warlock with stats built for strength based melee combat. The HP does not support that mediocre-at-best AC. Maybe Healing Light is enough? The build would also be stuck with simple weapons and no shield. Eh, I'm not convinced. I hate to say it but starting with 5 levels of Hexblade feels like the way.
You'd need to get barb sooner rather than later to get rage going, which solves the armor problem. I see what you mean about the rage ending prematurely. If your DM is willing to play ball with you, you can try to bait him into opportunity attacks to keep rage up. Move to a monster, AoA, rage...then compete the move away from the enemy. If he takes the OA, you are in business. If the DM realizes what you're doing and declines to attack you, not so much. Action surge, as you point out, solves the issue, but that delays progression.
PAM's OA might help you too by getting some extra attacks in between your turns. Really, you need to be able to get AoA up before round 1 of combat somehow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Two levels of fighter would also solve the armor issue. It does cost progression and could cost an ASI, but does include second wind and a fighting style along with action surge. The question becomes which fighting style? Going with GWFS increases damage a touch while defensive fighting style increases AC. Blindfighting isn't a terrible idea in the right circumstances. All have their problems with this build.
AoA prebattle is definitely preferred. How often is AoA going to be needed in a fight? I know with a pure barbarian, I didn't always feel the need to rage during LMOP and I'm assuming that AoA would be similar. Relying on AoA for the temp HPs certainly would make it more expedient than a pure barbarian. Having access to party members with Aid, Warding Bond and similar spells also factors into the equation.
I think the party scout/familiar is going to be this build's best friend. Too bad it leans on pact of the blade because it would be really cool for this build to go tome/chain and get its own familiar for scouting.
I think the party scout/familiar is going to be this build's best friend. Too bad it leans on pact of the blade because it would be really cool for this build to go tome/chain and get its own familiar for scouting.
You could always go with magic initiate to pick up find familiar if you really, really want it. for my build, I made a helf to get three stats to increase, but vhuman is also quite viable. Even without AoA though, I think the barbalock would be pretty viable, with a ton of outside utility. Not dropping rage on round one though vexes me. There's got to be a solution out there that /doesn't/ require 2 levels of fighter (I really, really dislike 3 class MCs, and especially combos that take many levels to "come online")...but I am nearly certain there is a solution.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I am also quite vexed by the rage dilemma on this build. I don't mind 3 classes, but the expediency of a build coming online is one of my topmost priorities when sketching something out. I basically only see the fighter dip as a solution if you are able to take this into a campaign starting at tier 3. I have a beast barbarian/ spore druid in the works that is very much inspired by your build and it is running into the same problems.
Perhaps the answer is to approach the first turn of combat differently than your average barbarian. Cast AoA, but hang back, hugging a squishy so that you can cover them from being surrounded, but not putting yourself out there to get smacked around. Polearm Master means you could still potentially get an attack in that round and helps perform your duties protecting that squishy (especially if sentinel is in the mix). The party would need another member (or two) able to take a lot of heat on round 1 in this case. Certainly not impossible, or even that big of an ask considering most parties have multiple members built to take the front line. Not ideal for shorter encounters, but I imagine this combo being saved for tougher fights anyways.
Can you cheese the action economy with ready an action? round 1, ready an attack, trigger player before me ends turn.
Reaction triggers the prepared action; you have now attacked since the end of your turn. Action, AoA, minor action, rage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I am also quite vexed by the rage dilemma on this build. I don't mind 3 classes, but the expediency of a build coming online is one of my topmost priorities when sketching something out. I basically only see the fighter dip as a solution if you are able to take this into a campaign starting at tier 3. I have a beast barbarian/ spore druid in the works that is very much inspired by your build and it is running into the same problems.
Perhaps the answer is to approach the first turn of combat differently than your average barbarian. Cast AoA, but hang back, hugging a squishy so that you can cover them from being surrounded, but not putting yourself out there to get smacked around. Polearm Master means you could still potentially get an attack in that round and helps perform your duties protecting that squishy (especially if sentinel is in the mix). The party would need another member (or two) able to take a lot of heat on round 1 in this case. Certainly not impossible, or even that big of an ask considering most parties have multiple members built to take the front line. Not ideal for shorter encounters, but I imagine this combo being saved for tougher fights anyways.
This was mostly what I was considering when saying that there isn't a need to rage round one.
Something else to consider for this build race wise: Mountain Dwarf. You get the same total of racial stat increases (4 points) as half-elf and you get medium armor proficiency to boot. You can move the light armor proficiency and whatever dwarven weapon training proficiencies you don't want to ones that you prefer with the Tasha's racial bonus changes and +2 strength/+2 constitution should be something that you'd want anyway. Point buy both of those to 14 to get 16s, you can point buy your 13 to a 14 or your 10 to a 12, depending on whether you'd rather have a 14 charisma or a 12 wisdom.
Having dwarven resilience would be a boon if you don't go totem.
Another thought, what if you exchanged the majority of warlock levels for Eldritch knight ones? Warlock 1-3 depending on what you wanted specifically, ek7 to get war magic to use with Blade Ward when you aren't raging, more spell slots than the 2-3 pact ones, though they'd be smaller than the pact ones at higher levels. This would also give you access to Booming Blade and green flame Blade, plus whatever else you grabbed with the second warlock cantrip. It gives better options for when you aren't raging, but that may not be a concern depending on the campaign. It's probably not worth it in the long run, but worth at least the consideration.
As for the action economy, you wouldn't be able to cast AoA and ready an action during the same turn. A possible consideration could be sorcerer 3 for quicken metamagic. But that would be worse than fighter since it would delay an extra level, and the bonus action would compete with rage. You could go with Draconic Ancestry for permanent 13+dex mod AC without using an invocation while starting warlock and not choosing hexblade, it would give you the same HP as a warlock level, and you could also choose extended spell as an alternate method of ensuring that AoA is up long enough to be effective. Getting two hours isn't likely to make as much difference, so it's probably about as useful as quickened AoA.
That probably means that the most important contribution to the discussion from this post was the idea of going Mountain Dwarf, though Githyanki could work for the medium armor proficiency and an invisible mage hand plus jump and Misty step once per long rest each at 3rd and 5th levels at the cost of one ability point.
You really do not need to get medium armor from dwarf; you will get it from Barbarian. I picked half elf because I /have/ to have a 13 in my charisma in order to MC. As a barbarian, I need con, and prefer a 14 dex, not to mention my need for high str. While it's doable to get similar stats without raising three separate scores, half elf I feel brings more to the table than tasha's master race for this build.
Honestly, the whole concept works better as barb 1, fighter 9, warlock 11, but then it's not really a barbarian warlock anymore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Just remember that you won't get the +2 damage from Rage if you're using your Charisma as your attack stat.
One other thing that you may discover with your lack of Wisdom is your Wisdom saves will suffer for it. Effects that target Wisdom saves are often used against Barbarians since they are so hard to kill. I discount this when people talk about Barbs being MAD because it is campaign dependent and Wisdom isn't specifically needed for abilities on all Barbs aside from skills and saves (which I don't consider when evaluating how MAD a class is since you'll want those skills higher on any character that you want to be proficient in them). It's still good to take them into account when creating your character.
I missed that bit sorry. Thanks for the clarification.
Just an FYI when you want to cast a spell you have to expend your highest level spell slot to cast it and it is therefore cast at that level of spell
I have a concept for a celestial warlock | barb MC. I think it would be viable. The basic premise is using Armor of Agathys (AoA) which doesn't require concentration in round one, then entering rage as a bonus action. Blade pact, and thirsting blade to get my two attacks in. Eldritch smite should be able to be used during a rage (it's not casting a spell) and your healing light can also be used while raging. if you have an abjurer in the party to hook you up with their arcane ward, it's even better.
I did a quick comparison a week ago or so; at the level my current party is (7), against one of the Sahuagin Champions that my party fought in our last session the barb AoA then raged on round 1. Sahuagin champ hit the barb three times for an average of 7, reduced to 3 by rage. 3 hits against a level 3 AoA took off 9 THP, and dealt 45 points to the Sahuagin Champ. Round 2, the Barb flexed and did nothing else. Sahuagin champion hit twice for an average of 7, reduced to 3 and took off the last 6 THP from AoA, and dealt 30 points of damage to the Sahuagin Champ. He never got his third attack because he only had 71 hp and died on the damage shield, while the barb was at full health.
That's obviously not a representative combat, it shows the potential. With thirsting blade, the barblock will swing his greatsword twice a round. He uses one spellslot for AoA, and has a second slot to eldritch smite with. It's not super MAD...because I don't care about my charisma. I'm not casting in combat, so it's not really relevant I have a 14 because I went half elf and that's just how the numbers worked out, so if I /need/ to fight from range, I have sacred flame. I can self heal in combat with a bonus action using healing light. I tried to pick utility spells that don't care about charisma for use outside combat. I see no reason why the character wouldn't be entirely viable, it just requires careful spell selection and a plan how to make the two classes synergize.
https://ddb.ac/characters/39514591/wFEGi5
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Looking back at OP's build, one relevant thing no one brought up is the Reckless Strikes also requires that you use STR to attack, so it is incompatible with a CHA focus via Hexblade. Since he mentioned a high crit chance due to Elven Accuracy, I assume he was relying on RS for advantage.
You can still get Hexblade benefits while using STR though. I agree its an interesting combo. Will definitely play around with it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
1- If you use CHA for attack and damage rolls with the ability given by the Hexblade Warlock, you won’t be able to add the damage bonus from your rage because you need to use STR for that.
2- And you won’t be able to use the Reckless Attack either for the same reason. So your Elven Accuracy and Reckless Attack won’t work.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Yeah those things were both mentioned. crzyhawk's build is pretty solid though. I'd be interested to figure out what level split is ideal here.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
My plan was to go barb 1 (for rage), then push warlock hard to get warlock 9 for 5th level spells ASAP. Along the way I'd pick up the thirsting blade invocation to get an extra weapon swing in there. Then barb 3 to pick up Zealot. My end goal would be warlock 11, for 3 5th level spell slots. I don't care about the mystic arcanum, but I do care about the extra spell slot. Why do I care about the extra spell slot? Because I will be eldritch smiting with the two that don't get used for Armor of Agathys. I can't cast the spells, but I can still smite with them. Reckless attack will give me more chances to win the crit lottery, and when that crit comes up, eldritch smite should lay some very serious pain.
The rest would be barbarian. When I get barb 6 and can multi-attack, I'd dump thirsting blade. So likely celestial warlock 11, zealot barbarian 9 would be my final build. I haven't dug in /too/ deeply to see if more barbarian would be of better benefit, but for what I was looking for, I don't think so.
Without too much thought going into planning, this is an initial draft of what it might look like at 20. https://ddb.ac/characters/43195115/amItYQ
First thoughts after looking at it, I think I might prefer to start warlock at level 1. Str and con saves are nice, but barbs are notoriously weak in mental saves, so getting my prof bonus in cha and wis would be helpful. I'd probably drop the cantrip and pick up elf weapon training, so I can use a longsword at level 1. I didn't spend much time looking at spells, mostly I'd want to take out of combat spells, rather than in combat spells. Things with no conc or attack/save utility type stuff would be my go-to picks. I am using warlock to make a bettermartial, not using barbarian to make a better spellcaster.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yes, it looks better starting off as warlock 1. The saves are much better balanced. I also dropped an ASI to pick up PAM. I traded in the greataxe for a halberd. A bonus action attack to stack on more rage damage is more important to me than a slightly bigger damage die for crit purposes. Adding an OA when something enters reach is also very tasty. I think this looks pretty playable.
https://ddb.ac/characters/43196701/aZuYzz
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Really nice build crzyhawk, I remember we talked briefly about it in another thread. Always a fan of a good spellslinger Barbarian. So many people see spells and rage and claw their eyes out, but I love it. The barbarian is basically completely bereft of utility, and spells are just perfect for that.
There is a hiccup in your play pattern though. If you take your first action in combat to cast AoA and then rage the same turn, you will immediately drop the rage once you pass the turn since you haven't attacked or dealt damage. Considering AoA's one hour duration I think that can be worked around fairly regularly with a party that stresses scouting and preparation. I would probably add a fighter dip somewhere to this build to be able to action surge in the entire combo on turn one when circumstances don't permit the prep cast.
Huh, there's also a bit of a clash with the Celestial's level 10 ability to give you temp HP after each rest. Just found it while looking at the classes and thinking about a progression. Don't think it's the end of the world as more temp HP to stack with rage is good, but it is a bit awkward. I really, really like the addition of Healing Light as an ability you can use while raging, so I think I'd stick with Celestial.
I had this whole thing about starting with five levels of warlock typed out, but then I realized the build would be stuck with light armor the whole time unless it drops Celestial for Hexblade (vom). Hmm. Gonna have to think about this one. I really like getting proficiency in wisdom saves and getting to third level spells and thirsting blade as quickly as possible.
Getting Armor of Agathys up, raging, and then moving to provoke a OA would be a way to not drop the rage. Otherwise, there's no reason to try to rage turn one. That does mean that you aren't getting to use your bonus action until turn two for rage and turn three for anything else that you might have like the PAM bonus action. However, causing a creature to lose it's reaction by attacking you, dealing some damage to it from AoA and preserving your Rage does have some merit, especially if you'll be able to resist the incoming damage. The RP moment of having someone attack you and get hurt doing it could be a nice little deterrent or a lovely morale breaker if you have set up shop in a choke point and the enemy has to get past you to attack the rest of the party. The potential trade off from actual HP to Temp HP can somewhat make up for the deficiency in HP by dropping from the d12 hit die to the d8.
If you use standard array for str 15, dex 12, con 14, int 8, wis 10, cha 13, you could put the racial bonuses in str and con to have 16, 12, 16, 8, 10, 13 and have 14 AC just from unarmored defense. Picking up a spear or quarterstaff and a shield will allow you to be up to 16 AC and still use PAM until you can get something better. It's not as nice as having scale armor to have a 15 AC without a shield and 17 with, but being right around that 16 AC mark early in a campaign is usually pretty good for a barbarian. If you stay more ranged before you get into the barbarian levels, it becomes less of a problem. Celestial Warlock does come with Sacred Flame by default, which means that you don't have to use a cantrip on Eldritch Blast if you don't want to do so. I don't think that being stuck with light armor is as big of a deal. You can always flip the dex and con (not ideal) if you want to max out the AC otherwise. There is also the option to take Armor of Shadows invocation for Mage Armor at will until you can get unarmored defense up and running, then take one more warlock level to move off of Armor of Shadows for something more ideal. Another option would be to take the Devil's sight invocation if you have someone in the party that can reliably cast Darkness on you and the party is willing to work with you. And the ultimate kicker would be if you have a cavalier that wants to be in the scrum with you, marking creatures to give them disadvantage to any attack that they make against you. The choice between attacking a heavily armored person and a squishier person who is hard to hit and stings back is an interesting conundrum for enemies, especially if they are having to push through you to get to the others that are really dropping the hurt on them.
It's funny, we posted about wanting to start with warlock at pretty much the exact same time. I like these changes of yours. One thing though, the build isn't actually proficient in medium armor. Barbarian multiclass confers proficiency in shields, simple weapons and martial weapons only. This is a tough dance, because those saves look so much better.
That is a fun little tactic. Don't know how I feel about inviting more attacks, but I love the creativity. Very clever.
I disagree that there is no reason to rage turn one though. In fact, I think there is a huge incentive to rage immediately because it greatly extends the longevity of AoA.
I'm also concerned about the survivability of a low level celestial warlock with stats built for strength based melee combat. The HP does not support that mediocre-at-best AC. Maybe Healing Light is enough? The build would also be stuck with simple weapons and no shield. Eh, I'm not convinced. I hate to say it but starting with 5 levels of Hexblade feels like the way.
You'd need to get barb sooner rather than later to get rage going, which solves the armor problem. I see what you mean about the rage ending prematurely. If your DM is willing to play ball with you, you can try to bait him into opportunity attacks to keep rage up. Move to a monster, AoA, rage...then compete the move away from the enemy. If he takes the OA, you are in business. If the DM realizes what you're doing and declines to attack you, not so much. Action surge, as you point out, solves the issue, but that delays progression.
PAM's OA might help you too by getting some extra attacks in between your turns. Really, you need to be able to get AoA up before round 1 of combat somehow.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Two levels of fighter would also solve the armor issue. It does cost progression and could cost an ASI, but does include second wind and a fighting style along with action surge. The question becomes which fighting style? Going with GWFS increases damage a touch while defensive fighting style increases AC. Blindfighting isn't a terrible idea in the right circumstances. All have their problems with this build.
AoA prebattle is definitely preferred. How often is AoA going to be needed in a fight? I know with a pure barbarian, I didn't always feel the need to rage during LMOP and I'm assuming that AoA would be similar. Relying on AoA for the temp HPs certainly would make it more expedient than a pure barbarian. Having access to party members with Aid, Warding Bond and similar spells also factors into the equation.
I think the party scout/familiar is going to be this build's best friend. Too bad it leans on pact of the blade because it would be really cool for this build to go tome/chain and get its own familiar for scouting.
You could always go with magic initiate to pick up find familiar if you really, really want it. for my build, I made a helf to get three stats to increase, but vhuman is also quite viable. Even without AoA though, I think the barbalock would be pretty viable, with a ton of outside utility. Not dropping rage on round one though vexes me. There's got to be a solution out there that /doesn't/ require 2 levels of fighter (I really, really dislike 3 class MCs, and especially combos that take many levels to "come online")...but I am nearly certain there is a solution.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Vex is the perfect word.
I am also quite vexed by the rage dilemma on this build. I don't mind 3 classes, but the expediency of a build coming online is one of my topmost priorities when sketching something out. I basically only see the fighter dip as a solution if you are able to take this into a campaign starting at tier 3. I have a beast barbarian/ spore druid in the works that is very much inspired by your build and it is running into the same problems.
Perhaps the answer is to approach the first turn of combat differently than your average barbarian. Cast AoA, but hang back, hugging a squishy so that you can cover them from being surrounded, but not putting yourself out there to get smacked around. Polearm Master means you could still potentially get an attack in that round and helps perform your duties protecting that squishy (especially if sentinel is in the mix). The party would need another member (or two) able to take a lot of heat on round 1 in this case. Certainly not impossible, or even that big of an ask considering most parties have multiple members built to take the front line. Not ideal for shorter encounters, but I imagine this combo being saved for tougher fights anyways.
Can you cheese the action economy with ready an action? round 1, ready an attack, trigger player before me ends turn.
Reaction triggers the prepared action; you have now attacked since the end of your turn. Action, AoA, minor action, rage.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
This was mostly what I was considering when saying that there isn't a need to rage round one.
Something else to consider for this build race wise: Mountain Dwarf. You get the same total of racial stat increases (4 points) as half-elf and you get medium armor proficiency to boot. You can move the light armor proficiency and whatever dwarven weapon training proficiencies you don't want to ones that you prefer with the Tasha's racial bonus changes and +2 strength/+2 constitution should be something that you'd want anyway. Point buy both of those to 14 to get 16s, you can point buy your 13 to a 14 or your 10 to a 12, depending on whether you'd rather have a 14 charisma or a 12 wisdom.
Having dwarven resilience would be a boon if you don't go totem.
Another thought, what if you exchanged the majority of warlock levels for Eldritch knight ones? Warlock 1-3 depending on what you wanted specifically, ek7 to get war magic to use with Blade Ward when you aren't raging, more spell slots than the 2-3 pact ones, though they'd be smaller than the pact ones at higher levels. This would also give you access to Booming Blade and green flame Blade, plus whatever else you grabbed with the second warlock cantrip. It gives better options for when you aren't raging, but that may not be a concern depending on the campaign. It's probably not worth it in the long run, but worth at least the consideration.
As for the action economy, you wouldn't be able to cast AoA and ready an action during the same turn. A possible consideration could be sorcerer 3 for quicken metamagic. But that would be worse than fighter since it would delay an extra level, and the bonus action would compete with rage. You could go with Draconic Ancestry for permanent 13+dex mod AC without using an invocation while starting warlock and not choosing hexblade, it would give you the same HP as a warlock level, and you could also choose extended spell as an alternate method of ensuring that AoA is up long enough to be effective. Getting two hours isn't likely to make as much difference, so it's probably about as useful as quickened AoA.
That probably means that the most important contribution to the discussion from this post was the idea of going Mountain Dwarf, though Githyanki could work for the medium armor proficiency and an invisible mage hand plus jump and Misty step once per long rest each at 3rd and 5th levels at the cost of one ability point.
You really do not need to get medium armor from dwarf; you will get it from Barbarian. I picked half elf because I /have/ to have a 13 in my charisma in order to MC. As a barbarian, I need con, and prefer a 14 dex, not to mention my need for high str. While it's doable to get similar stats without raising three separate scores, half elf I feel brings more to the table than tasha's master race for this build.
Honestly, the whole concept works better as barb 1, fighter 9, warlock 11, but then it's not really a barbarian warlock anymore.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha