I came across a cantrip (frostbite) I hadn’t known of before and wanted to hear from the educated and experienced player community of their opinions on this spell in comparison to vicious mockery.
According to frostbite, it deals 1d6 cold damage (scales with levels) and gives the affected character disadvantage on its next attack (if it fails a constitution saving throw).
According to vicious mockery, it deals 1d4 psychic damage (scales with levels) and gives the affected character disadvantage on its next attack (if it fails a wisdom saving throw).
Does the fact that vicious mockery deals psychic damage and require a wisdom saving throw give it the power to out-weigh the 1d6 cold damage of frostbite while it also needs a constitution saving throw?
Curious on people’s opinions, thanks for your help!
They're pretty similar and usually you're not in a position to choose between them anyways since only bards have access to Vicious Mockery. I'm guessing you're a warlock with Pact of the Tome?
I don't think the damage is a good criteria to distinguish between them because either way it's relatively sub-par damage compared to the usual offensive cantrips. If you're casting these spells it's usually because you want the secondary effect, and in that case the saving throw involved is going to be the bigger factor. Constitution tends to correlate with size (tiny creatures tend to have bad CON, huge creatures tend to have high CON) while there tends to be less variation in wisdom scores, though spellcasters, dragons, and powerful extraplanar creatures will usually have good WIS saves.
Another noteworthy difference is that Vicious Mockery affects any kind of attack, while Frostbite only affects weapon attacks.
If you do care about the damage, it's worth pointing out that psychic is far less likely to be resisted than cold.
Both are key defensive spells. The reason why is quite simple - the person you really want to target with either spell is a Rogue. Giving someone disadvantage kills Sneak Attack. And if they were already using Advantage to get Sneak Attack you have nullified they need another reason to get Sneak Attack. Can totally kill someone's build.
One consideration is who is your opponent? Some have better Con saving throws, and others have better Wisdom. So I wouldn't use Frostbite on a fighter, and I wouldn't use vicious mockery on a warlock.
Another is vicious mockeryis verbal only. So you can use it while tied up or otherwise have your hands full.
Plus Vicious Mockery is more fun. Not that you're required to say an actual in-character insult when using the spell, I feel like pretty much everybody does and it can lead to some pretty funny moments.
Plus Vicious Mockery is more fun. Not that you're required to say an actual in-character insult when using the spell, I feel like pretty much everybody does and it can lead to some pretty funny moments.
wait, you don't throw ice cubes at your friends when you cast frostbite?
Vicious mockery imposes disadvantage on any type of attack, frostbite only imposes disadvantage on weapon attacks. VM is better hands down in every way (components, save type, breadth of usefulness, and damage type against resistances).
Plus Vicious Mockery is more fun. Not that you're required to say an actual in-character insult when using the spell, I feel like pretty much everybody does and it can lead to some pretty funny moments.
This. While the Ancient Red Dragon is probably going to save, any comment about their mother will be a memorable moment.
Hello!
I came across a cantrip (frostbite) I hadn’t known of before and wanted to hear from the educated and experienced player community of their opinions on this spell in comparison to vicious mockery.
According to frostbite, it deals 1d6 cold damage (scales with levels) and gives the affected character disadvantage on its next attack (if it fails a constitution saving throw).
According to vicious mockery, it deals 1d4 psychic damage (scales with levels) and gives the affected character disadvantage on its next attack (if it fails a wisdom saving throw).
Does the fact that vicious mockery deals psychic damage and require a wisdom saving throw give it the power to out-weigh the 1d6 cold damage of frostbite while it also needs a constitution saving throw?
Curious on people’s opinions, thanks for your help!
They're pretty similar and usually you're not in a position to choose between them anyways since only bards have access to Vicious Mockery. I'm guessing you're a warlock with Pact of the Tome?
I don't think the damage is a good criteria to distinguish between them because either way it's relatively sub-par damage compared to the usual offensive cantrips. If you're casting these spells it's usually because you want the secondary effect, and in that case the saving throw involved is going to be the bigger factor. Constitution tends to correlate with size (tiny creatures tend to have bad CON, huge creatures tend to have high CON) while there tends to be less variation in wisdom scores, though spellcasters, dragons, and powerful extraplanar creatures will usually have good WIS saves.
Another noteworthy difference is that Vicious Mockery affects any kind of attack, while Frostbite only affects weapon attacks.
If you do care about the damage, it's worth pointing out that psychic is far less likely to be resisted than cold.
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Thank you inquisitive! Totally over looked that, thanks a bunch for the insight!
Both are key defensive spells. The reason why is quite simple - the person you really want to target with either spell is a Rogue. Giving someone disadvantage kills Sneak Attack. And if they were already using Advantage to get Sneak Attack you have nullified they need another reason to get Sneak Attack. Can totally kill someone's build.
One consideration is who is your opponent? Some have better Con saving throws, and others have better Wisdom. So I wouldn't use Frostbite on a fighter, and I wouldn't use vicious mockery on a warlock.
Another is vicious mockery is verbal only. So you can use it while tied up or otherwise have your hands full.
Hey Nthal, why wouldn't you use vicious mockery on a warlock? Just curious how the class comes into play.
Because Warlock's have proficiency in WIS saves.. I mean its no cleric/druid but worse than targeting an undead or something.
Vicious Mockery is superior because CON saves are terrible.
Also cold damage is more frequently resisted than psychic one i believe.
Plus Vicious Mockery is more fun. Not that you're required to say an actual in-character insult when using the spell, I feel like pretty much everybody does and it can lead to some pretty funny moments.
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wait, you don't throw ice cubes at your friends when you cast frostbite?
Vicious mockery imposes disadvantage on any type of attack, frostbite only imposes disadvantage on weapon attacks. VM is better hands down in every way (components, save type, breadth of usefulness, and damage type against resistances).
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This. While the Ancient Red Dragon is probably going to save, any comment about their mother will be a memorable moment.
Its not all min/maxing the tactics...:)