TL;DR- For the next iteration of the Druid, I’m suggesting keeping standard wild shape the same for all druids, including moon druids, and using templates (that incorporate proficiency bonus and/or Druid level to scale into more difficult content) for combat forms instead of giving moon druids higher CR creatures. I am also suggesting incorporating a table of ‘adaptations’ which gives options to select features or abilities from as moon druids level up. Thoughts?
In this post, I hope to open up a discussion on some of the underlying problems that need to be addressed for the circle of the moon and wild shape features and then some possible ways to address those issues. I was very excited to hear in the recent UA video that the druid will be up for another round of testing. I love how much emphasis they place on player feedback and I’m hoping that maybe they will read this thread and get some inspiration for their next iteration of the druid. I am also very curious to hear from the rest of the community as to what they want out of the next druid, as maybe I am an outlier here.
There was really a lot to love for the base druid and other subclasses. I really appreciate how much detail they put into the class. For example, something as small as having Speak With Animals always prepared is an excellent thematic edition to the druid! This spell rarely comes up in most campaigns, but feels great when you get to use it on a druid, and awful when you can’t because you prioritized other spells to prepare. Changes like this just make the druid feel more druidy. While there are certainly tweaks I would like to see, I think all of the base druid features are in a pretty good spot right now.
The addition of temporary hit points was a good substitution for the extra health moon druids used to get. I was surprised however, and frankly disappointed, that they focused so heavily on the moon theme just because it has the word moon in the name. I’m guessing that they did that based on feedback so I might be in the minority here, but the druid of the stars is already very heavily star themed. The moon druid has always been focusing on shapeshifting into beasts effectively. I suspect that was why they removed the elemental forms, because it took away from the beast focus. That however, brings up the second issue.
With the removal of the elemental forms (which is disappointing, but understandable if we're going beasts only) There are very few combat options for high level druids, as a disproportionate amount of beasts are below CR 1.
Potential changes
Keep stat blocks for base wild shape for all druids including circle of the moon, but limit the sources to the monster manual, and implement templates for moon druid combat shapes. The monster manual has a good list of basic animals to select from, so this will give versatility to all druids. Also, provide moon druids competitively scaling combat forms. These forms might look something like this…
Lvl 3: Combat Wild Shape- Through meditation, you attune yourself to three beastial spirits; a spirit of the land, a spirit of the sky, and a spirit of the sea. You can now take the form of these beasts using your Wild Shape ability. You can select the form of these spirits. It can be a beast you have seen before or any one that you and your DM determine is appropriate (if you and your DM agree that a flying spaghetti monster is appropriate, who am I to argue) . Once per long rest, you can meditate to change the form of one or more of your combat wild shapes. You must spend 20 minutes of meditation for each form you wish to change. Regardless of the form you choose, your combat wild shapes have these stats…
I’m not going to attempt to write stat blocks for each of the forms, because I’m sure there are more qualified people to do the math and determine appropriate values, however, I would like to bring attention to the Primeval subclass (Circle of the Primeval (UA) - DND 5th Edition (*******.com)) This provides a stat block for a companion, not for wild shape itself, but uses your proficiency bonus and level in places so it scales well with higher levels. The armor for example is 13 + proficiency bonus.
As for other subclass features, I would propose giving moon druids a list to pick from to adapt their forms to their character. I believe this will give players options (such as leaning into the moon theme or focusing more on becoming a front line fighter) and fits well with the theme of the Druid. I have focused here on utility choices as I feel sufficient damage should be build into the main kit and can increase with scaling combat wild shapes directly. Maybe pick one adaptation at levels 3, 6, and 10, and pick two at level 14. Maybe using something like this as a starting place;
Lvls 3, 6, 9, and 14- Your mastery of shapeshifting allows you to produce special adaptations in your combat forms. Select an adaptation from the following list;
Heightened senses- your spirit of the land combat wild shape gains tremor sense, your spirit of the sky and sea wild shapes gain echolocation.
Primal agility- your spirit of the sky gains flyby, your spirit of the land and sea can disengage as a bonus action.
Goading roar- you can use a goading roar (something like goading attack) x times per long/short rest
Go for the throat- while grappling a creature in your combat wild shape, they are silenced
Moonlight Step- The one from the UA 6 playtest
Movable Moonbeam- The one from the UA 6 playtest
Thick hide- you gain an additional X temporary HP per druid level when you use your combat wild shape
Cleave- X times per short/long rest when you attack, you can select a nearby creature to also attack. If the second attack lands, it deals half damage. You may select this twice to gain additional uses per rest
I AM NOT PRESENTING THIS AS A BALANCED FINISH PRODUCT, JUST TO DEMONSTRATE THE CONCEPT.
The problem is the no-spellcasting while in WS. If they keep that restriction then the Moondruid WS needs to be comparable in power as a melee martial to a Fighter, otherwise why are you doing it? But this makes the martial players angry b/c it means the moon druid is both an effective melee fighter and a full spellcaster. But if they make it significantly worse than a fighter then there is no point using it b/c you're better off staying as a spell slinger.
1) Your poll is missing an option (closer to UA4.) UA6 is already the one that's closer to 2014.
2) I voted for "completely different." My idea was for them to cap Combat Wild Shape at CR 1 forms and then scale those, essentially transforming those into the templates. That way they can make CR0-1 versions of any animal people might want - bears, spiders, tigers, fish, snakes, birds etc etc - and have a much cleaner balance point to build from.
I might be wrong, but I think the whole point of Circle of the Moon subclass is shapeshifting. People pick this subclass to crank up shapeshifting to the maximum. Turn into really powerful stuff. However:
As noted by Agilemind, and it's the problem with every shapeshifter kind of class in any game - you turn into a martial and then you mustn't be as good as a martial because you're still a full caster, and you must also be as good as a martial because otherwise what's the point. I think the solution lies in using spell slots - your basic class resource - to power shapeshifting. I think shapeshifting should be an option to trade spellcasting power for martial survivability and single-target damage, not just gain martial power for free.
If Circle of the Moon is about making shapeshifting a fully functional combat feature, then basic shapeshifting should not have that functionality. It should stick to utility - access to swimming and flying, tiny forms, animals with powerful senses, etc. It could be boiled down to several most useful templates.
Druid is about natural things, so I don't think that a lot of people would like to morph into mutants. Getting more HP than the common animal is fine, but attaching senses or other abilities to it that it's not supposed to have should probably be reserved to some weird Circle of the Warp subclass. I personally don't like turning into outsiders, too. Elementals are not native to material world. Instead, CotM druids should shapeshift into natural monstrosities and plants, like displacer beast, shambling mound, bulette, basilisk, etc. It is the very thing people pick CotM for - shapeshifting to the maximum, shapeshifting into really powerful monsters. And these forms have pretty dangerous abilities that could be powered by spell slots, like basilisk's gaze. Letting a druid just do it for free is obviously too much, but for a spell slot, that could be balanced.
I might be wrong, but I think the whole point of Circle of the Moon subclass is shapeshifting. People pick this subclass to crank up shapeshifting to the maximum. Turn into really powerful stuff. However:
As noted by Agilemind, and it's the problem with every shapeshifter kind of class in any game - you turn into a martial and then you mustn't be as good as a martial because you're still a full caster, and you must also be as good as a martial because otherwise what's the point. I think the solution lies in using spell slots - your basic class resource - to power shapeshifting. I think shapeshifting should be an option to trade spellcasting power for martial survivability and single-target damage, not just gain martial power for free.
Yeah, it's a general problem with any full caster who also does something else -- spellcasting is such a strong feature that there just isn't space for a lot else. The 2014 version also suffers from the problem of gear -- a class who can't use gear (such as druid in wild shape in 2014) is either going to be overpowered in a low gear game, underpowered in a high gear game, or both.
Yeah, it's a general problem with any full caster who also does something else -- spellcasting is such a strong feature that there just isn't space for a lot else. The 2014 version also suffers from the problem of gear -- a class who can't use gear (such as druid in wild shape in 2014) is either going to be overpowered in a low gear game, underpowered in a high gear game, or both.
Then again, spellcasters don't really depend on gear and they're doing just fine. Although they don't put their AC to the test as often. Monks, too. Shapeshifters would have a similar solution to monks.
Then again, spellcasters don't really depend on gear and they're doing just fine.
They're less dependent on gear than martial characters, but having items that boost save DC and saves is still quite significant to the power of a character. In any case, if the moon druid is pretending to function as a martial, presumably it should be as equipment-dependent as a martial.
Not being able to cast while in Wildshape is a fair limitation on its power when it was as powerful as it was in 5e. It seems their primary goal of 5eR is to cut down the additional hp it gave. That’s fine but some changes need to be made to accommodate the lack in hit points. Especially for the Moon Druid. I didn’t mind templates and actually see them as a more balanced way to handle Wildshape, but the more fun way is statblocks. I do see a place they could both exist. For moon druids instead of templates replacing the beast stat blocks, maybe they add to the block. Also as some have said the Druid should be able to use spellslots while Wildshape to enhance its melee combat to be equal to a fighter.
2ND LEVEL: WILD SHAPE The power of nature infuses you, allowing you to assume the form of an animal. As a Bonus Action, you transform into a Beast form that you have learned for this feature (see “Known Forms” below). You stay in that form for a number of hours equal to half your Druid level (round down) or until you use Wild Shape again, have the Incapacitated condition, or die. You can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action. If the form is tiny you must concentrate to maintain it as if concentrating on a spell. Known Forms. You start knowing your Proficiency bonus+ your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) forms for this feature, chosen from among Beast stat blocks that have a maximum Challenge Rating of 1/4 and that lack a Fly Speed. Rather than choosing, you may start with the Riding Horse, Spider, and Wolf. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can replace one of your known forms with another eligible form. When you gain certain Druid levels, the maximum Challenge Rating for your forms increases, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. In addition, starting at 8th level, you can adopt a form that has a Fly Speed, and you no longer need to concentrate to maintain tiny forms. Number of Uses. You can use Wild Shape twice. You regain one expended use when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest. You gain additional uses when you reach certain Druid levels, as shown in the Wild Shape column of the Druid table. Rules While Transformed. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply: Game Statistics. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast, but you retain your Hit Points; Hit Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features; speciestraits; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them. No Spellcasting. You can’t cast spells, but transforming doesn’t break your Concentration on a spell you’ve already cast (unless you take a tiny form before 8th level) or prevent you from taking actions that are part of a spell, such as Call Lightning, that you’ve already cast. Objects. Your ability to handle objects is determined by the form’s limbs, rather than your own. In addition, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s size and shape. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form. Using Spell Slots: While in a Wild Shape form you my use your reaction when you fail a Concentration check to expend a 1st level or higher spell slot to succeed the Concentration check instead. Additionally if your form is not tiny you may use your bonus action to expend a 1st level or higher spell slot and gain 1d6 per level of the expended spell slot temporarily hit points.
Moon Druid
3RD LEVEL: CIRCLE FORMS The rites of your circle grant you the ability to transform into more dangerous animal forms; the maximum Challenge Rating for your Wild Shape is 1.
3RD LEVEL: COMBAT WILD SHAPE You have learned ancient techniques that allow you to channel the magic of the moon to bolster yourself while using Wild Shape, granting you the following benefits: Bestial Strike. When you take the attack action you may replace any attack(s) in the Beast Stat Block with a Bestial Strike: Melee Attack: your Spell Attack Modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: Size die + your Wisdom modifier Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage. Tiny 1d4, small 1d6, medium 1d8, large 2d6, Huge or bigger 2d8 Regeneration: You can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain 1d8 per level of the spell slot expended + Wisdom modifier hit points. Natural Armor Boost: As an action or bonus action, you can expend a spell slot of 1st level or higher to gain +2 per level of the spell slot to your forms AC. This cannot raise your forms AC above 20 and ends when you change forms or use Wild Shape feature again.
6TH LEVEL: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS The maximum Challenge Rating of your Wild Shape now equals your Druid level divided by 3 (round down). In addition, each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Force damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks.
10TH LEVEL: UNIQUE CIRCLE FORMS When you take a Wild Shape form you may expend another use of Wild Shape to add the Alpha, Chimera or Massive Form template to the form as part of the same bonus action.
Alpha Form- +2AC, +2 to one stat, +1 to another stat. +2 to hit for all attacks in the stat block, +2 to any save DC in the Stat block, +10 movement speed
Chimera Form- Choose a second form you know, choose the size of one of the stat blocks you have the higher AC, STR, DEX, CON and movement speeds of the two blocks. You have all actions from both blocks.
Massive Form- Your form is two sizes larger than normal. Your attacks deal 2d4 additional damage. You have advantage on Strength checks and Saving Throws.
14TH LEVEL: THOUSAND FORMS You are no longer limited in the number of forms you may know. In addition you may add two Unique Circle Form templates to a Wild Shape form, but must expend a Wild Shape use for each template added to the form.
I making this up on the fly so it’s not balanced and just to give an idea of the type of things I would want implemented.
I feel like UA6 Moon Druid is almost there, but needs completely different level 10 and 14 features. Also, the level 6 feature is just the natural progression of Combat Wildshape and shouldn't use 90% of a feature slot. So I guess I'm voting for "something different" seeing as that is like... Half of the UA6 version.
I am of the opinion that Moon Druid either needs to have access to more of their spellcasting in Wildshape form or need to burn spell slots to empower their Wildshape. Just using spell slots for temp HP generation via Wildshape uses doesn't feel great. Mainly because of how much anti-synergy with other classes and spells comes from having the core subclass mechanic revolve around it.
Firstly, I'd have Wildshape AC just be the beast's AC + WIS Bonus rather than being the druid's armor value. That way Moon Druid doesn't NEED to take Warden Order to be viable in melee. It'd also make sure that high AC forms are still desirable even if their damage output is lower.
I'd have Combat Wildshape To Hit and Save DC scale with the druid's Spell To Hit and Spell Save DC at level 6. At the same level, I'd allow Moon Druid to cast Self and Touch range spells in Wildshape form, allowing the Moon Druid to recast buffs, heals, and close-range damage spells while transformed to enhance their survivability and damage output through their magic.
At level 10 I'd allow a curated list of Monstrosities, Plants, and Dragonkin (Owlbears, Griffons, Drakes, Wyverns, etc) to be added to the list of available forms so there are more powerful high CR creatures the druid has access to. This is to make sure druids have better variety at higher CR levels, though I'd also hope the upcoming OneDnD Monster Manual just has a better distribution of Beasts as well.
At level 14 I'd just snatch Alternating Forms from UA4. Allow the druid to swap between beast and caster form as many times as they like for one use of wildshape. Maybe even buff it to let the druid switch between beast forms without expending an additional use as well. Since the Wildshape uses the druid's HP now it won't create an infinite well of HP like it would have in the 5e version, and being able to rapidly switch forms would allow Moon Druids to slip out of beast shape, cast a big spell, then slip back the next turn without worrying about blowing their Wildshape use.
If they did let you switch between forms as well it'd also let Moon Druids swap combat forms based on utility. Turn into a flying creature when the dragon tries to fly away. Turn into a grappling creature when you want to pin the boss down. Swap to a melee heavy hitter for DPS or swap to a high AC, tanky form when surrounded. It'd offer a lot of tactical flexibility, but since the druid is limited by CR they aren't gaining much raw power by changing shape constantly, but it does make the druid feel like they have truly mastered their shapeshifting power to its highest level.
I might be wrong, but I think the whole point of Circle of the Moon subclass is shapeshifting. People pick this subclass to crank up shapeshifting to the maximum. Turn into really powerful stuff. However:
As noted by Agilemind, and it's the problem with every shapeshifter kind of class in any game - you turn into a martial and then you mustn't be as good as a martial because you're still a full caster, and you must also be as good as a martial because otherwise what's the point. I think the solution lies in using spell slots - your basic class resource - to power shapeshifting. I think shapeshifting should be an option to trade spellcasting power for martial survivability and single-target damage, not just gain martial power for free.
If Circle of the Moon is about making shapeshifting a fully functional combat feature, then basic shapeshifting should not have that functionality. It should stick to utility - access to swimming and flying, tiny forms, animals with powerful senses, etc. It could be boiled down to several most useful templates.
Druid is about natural things, so I don't think that a lot of people would like to morph into mutants. Getting more HP than the common animal is fine, but attaching senses or other abilities to it that it's not supposed to have should probably be reserved to some weird Circle of the Warp subclass. I personally don't like turning into outsiders, too. Elementals are not native to material world. Instead, CotM druids should shapeshift into natural monstrosities and plants, like displacer beast, shambling mound, bulette, basilisk, etc. It is the very thing people pick CotM for - shapeshifting to the maximum, shapeshifting into really powerful monsters. And these forms have pretty dangerous abilities that could be powered by spell slots, like basilisk's gaze. Letting a druid just do it for free is obviously too much, but for a spell slot, that could be balanced.
Honestly it's wild to me that they tried to turn so many other things into a spell, but didn't try it with Wildshape where it would make the most sense.
I'm sure plenty of people would object to this, but it would be an appropriate cost for temporary martial equivalency (scaling your CR with spell level), and to be as good as a martial all day, you'd have to spend all your higher spell slots so you'd be trading your spellcaster goodies. It would still be superior because you'd have the option of one or another, but it would be a heck of a lot closer to fair than current 5e.
I might be wrong, but I think the whole point of Circle of the Moon subclass is shapeshifting. People pick this subclass to crank up shapeshifting to the maximum. Turn into really powerful stuff. However:
As noted by Agilemind, and it's the problem with every shapeshifter kind of class in any game - you turn into a martial and then you mustn't be as good as a martial because you're still a full caster, and you must also be as good as a martial because otherwise what's the point. I think the solution lies in using spell slots - your basic class resource - to power shapeshifting. I think shapeshifting should be an option to trade spellcasting power for martial survivability and single-target damage, not just gain martial power for free.
If Circle of the Moon is about making shapeshifting a fully functional combat feature, then basic shapeshifting should not have that functionality. It should stick to utility - access to swimming and flying, tiny forms, animals with powerful senses, etc. It could be boiled down to several most useful templates.
Druid is about natural things, so I don't think that a lot of people would like to morph into mutants. Getting more HP than the common animal is fine, but attaching senses or other abilities to it that it's not supposed to have should probably be reserved to some weird Circle of the Warp subclass. I personally don't like turning into outsiders, too. Elementals are not native to material world. Instead, CotM druids should shapeshift into natural monstrosities and plants, like displacer beast, shambling mound, bulette, basilisk, etc. It is the very thing people pick CotM for - shapeshifting to the maximum, shapeshifting into really powerful monsters. And these forms have pretty dangerous abilities that could be powered by spell slots, like basilisk's gaze. Letting a druid just do it for free is obviously too much, but for a spell slot, that could be balanced.
Honestly it's wild to me that they tried to turn so many other things into a spell, but didn't try it with Wildshape where it would make the most sense.
I'm sure plenty of people would object to this, but it would be an appropriate cost for temporary martial equivalency (scaling your CR with spell level), and to be as good as a martial all day, you'd have to spend all your higher spell slots so you'd be trading your spellcaster goodies. It would still be superior because you'd have the option of one or another, but it would be a heck of a lot closer to fair than current 5e.
Those already exist they are: Alter Self, Polymorph, Tenser's Tansformation, Tasha's Otherworldly Guise, Draconic Transformation, and True Polymorph.
Which is a bit of a problem spell (though that's hardly unique; a lot of level 9 spells are pretty broken, level 9 appears to be "this is where we send the cool but gamebreaking ideas").
Which is a bit of a problem spell (though that's hardly unique; a lot of level 9 spells are pretty broken, level 9 appears to be "this is where we send the cool but gamebreaking ideas").
How is Shapechange gamebreaking? It specifically says you can’t gain HP on the form changes, and the change costs an Action.
How is Shapechange gamebreaking? It specifically says you can’t gain HP on the form changes, and the change costs an Action.
It lets you turn into CR 20 forms and, while it specifically excludes spellcasting and legendary actions, it doesn't have limits on other recharge abilities (for example: turn into a balor (summoner variant)) and can still use legendary resistance. It also has the general problem of requiring PCs to make use of monster stat blocks, which (a) adds exponential complexity, and (b) monster stat blocks really aren't balanced for being used by PCs.
How is Shapechange gamebreaking? It specifically says you can’t gain HP on the form changes, and the change costs an Action.
It lets you turn into CR 20 forms and, while it specifically excludes spellcasting and legendary actions, it doesn't have limits on other recharge abilities (for example: turn into a balor (summoner variant)) and can still use legendary resistance. It also has the general problem of requiring PCs to make use of monster stat blocks, which (a) adds exponential complexity, and (b) monster stat blocks really aren't balanced for being used by PCs.
The complexity is the point, though. The simple fact is that you cannot have truly meaningful shapechanging powers like this without the complexity.
How is Shapechange gamebreaking? It specifically says you can’t gain HP on the form changes, and the change costs an Action.
It lets you turn into CR 20 forms and, while it specifically excludes spellcasting and legendary actions, it doesn't have limits on other recharge abilities (for example: turn into a balor (summoner variant)) and can still use legendary resistance. It also has the general problem of requiring PCs to make use of monster stat blocks, which (a) adds exponential complexity, and (b) monster stat blocks really aren't balanced for being used by PCs.
It isn't. There are a bunch of game breaking spells at level 9. The hideously complex ones are Gate, Shapechange, True Polymorph, and Wish. Invulnerability an autowin against an awful lot of CR 20+ creatures. Meteor Swarm is merely hilariously overtuned (the standard for inventing a new spell at level 9 is 14d6. It does 40d6). Prismatic Wall is poorly written (destroy one wall, and suddenly you can just shoot non-magical arrows through it. Magic arrows still get stopped. Oh, and a dragon can just breathe right through it, all it stops is normal ranged attacks, magical ranged attacks, and spells) and overtuned (50d6, this time).
It's not like there aren't broken spells at lower level, such as magic jar and simulacrum, but 9th level is where they just gave up on the concept of balance. Which is not to say that there shouldn't be over the top broken stuff... but it's guaranteed to be a headache.
Invulnerability has the minor drawback of requiring concentration while doing nothing to kill the enemy at a tier when it's pretty easy for the DM to find something that can Incapacitate you for a round.
Invulnerability has the minor drawback of requiring concentration while doing nothing to kill the enemy at a tier when it's pretty easy for the DM to find something that can Incapacitate you for a round.
The only CR 20+ creatures in the monster manual with means to break invulnerability in their default stat block are the ancient silver dragon (unless the PC has freedom of movement) the lich, and the pit fiend (also blocked by freedom of movement). Sure, it's tier 4 play, it's entirely expected that the DM throws a blizzard of weird stuff at the PCs, but that doesn't mean the spell isn't a balance issue.
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TL;DR- For the next iteration of the Druid, I’m suggesting keeping standard wild shape the same for all druids, including moon druids, and using templates (that incorporate proficiency bonus and/or Druid level to scale into more difficult content) for combat forms instead of giving moon druids higher CR creatures. I am also suggesting incorporating a table of ‘adaptations’ which gives options to select features or abilities from as moon druids level up. Thoughts?
In this post, I hope to open up a discussion on some of the underlying problems that need to be addressed for the circle of the moon and wild shape features and then some possible ways to address those issues. I was very excited to hear in the recent UA video that the druid will be up for another round of testing. I love how much emphasis they place on player feedback and I’m hoping that maybe they will read this thread and get some inspiration for their next iteration of the druid. I am also very curious to hear from the rest of the community as to what they want out of the next druid, as maybe I am an outlier here.
There was really a lot to love for the base druid and other subclasses. I really appreciate how much detail they put into the class. For example, something as small as having Speak With Animals always prepared is an excellent thematic edition to the druid! This spell rarely comes up in most campaigns, but feels great when you get to use it on a druid, and awful when you can’t because you prioritized other spells to prepare. Changes like this just make the druid feel more druidy. While there are certainly tweaks I would like to see, I think all of the base druid features are in a pretty good spot right now.
The addition of temporary hit points was a good substitution for the extra health moon druids used to get. I was surprised however, and frankly disappointed, that they focused so heavily on the moon theme just because it has the word moon in the name. I’m guessing that they did that based on feedback so I might be in the minority here, but the druid of the stars is already very heavily star themed. The moon druid has always been focusing on shapeshifting into beasts effectively. I suspect that was why they removed the elemental forms, because it took away from the beast focus. That however, brings up the second issue.
With the removal of the elemental forms (which is disappointing, but understandable if we're going beasts only) There are very few combat options for high level druids, as a disproportionate amount of beasts are below CR 1.
Potential changes
Lvl 3: Combat Wild Shape- Through meditation, you attune yourself to three beastial spirits; a spirit of the land, a spirit of the sky, and a spirit of the sea. You can now take the form of these beasts using your Wild Shape ability. You can select the form of these spirits. It can be a beast you have seen before or any one that you and your DM determine is appropriate (if you and your DM agree that a flying spaghetti monster is appropriate, who am I to argue) . Once per long rest, you can meditate to change the form of one or more of your combat wild shapes. You must spend 20 minutes of meditation for each form you wish to change. Regardless of the form you choose, your combat wild shapes have these stats…
I’m not going to attempt to write stat blocks for each of the forms, because I’m sure there are more qualified people to do the math and determine appropriate values, however, I would like to bring attention to the Primeval subclass (Circle of the Primeval (UA) - DND 5th Edition (*******.com)) This provides a stat block for a companion, not for wild shape itself, but uses your proficiency bonus and level in places so it scales well with higher levels. The armor for example is 13 + proficiency bonus.
As for other subclass features, I would propose giving moon druids a list to pick from to adapt their forms to their character. I believe this will give players options (such as leaning into the moon theme or focusing more on becoming a front line fighter) and fits well with the theme of the Druid. I have focused here on utility choices as I feel sufficient damage should be build into the main kit and can increase with scaling combat wild shapes directly. Maybe pick one adaptation at levels 3, 6, and 10, and pick two at level 14. Maybe using something like this as a starting place;
Lvls 3, 6, 9, and 14- Your mastery of shapeshifting allows you to produce special adaptations in your combat forms. Select an adaptation from the following list;
Heightened senses- your spirit of the land combat wild shape gains tremor sense, your spirit of the sky and sea wild shapes gain echolocation.
Primal agility- your spirit of the sky gains flyby, your spirit of the land and sea can disengage as a bonus action.
Goading roar- you can use a goading roar (something like goading attack) x times per long/short rest
Go for the throat- while grappling a creature in your combat wild shape, they are silenced
Moonlight Step- The one from the UA 6 playtest
Movable Moonbeam- The one from the UA 6 playtest
Thick hide- you gain an additional X temporary HP per druid level when you use your combat wild shape
Cleave- X times per short/long rest when you attack, you can select a nearby creature to also attack. If the second attack lands, it deals half damage. You may select this twice to gain additional uses per rest
I AM NOT PRESENTING THIS AS A BALANCED FINISH PRODUCT, JUST TO DEMONSTRATE THE CONCEPT.
The problem is the no-spellcasting while in WS. If they keep that restriction then the Moondruid WS needs to be comparable in power as a melee martial to a Fighter, otherwise why are you doing it? But this makes the martial players angry b/c it means the moon druid is both an effective melee fighter and a full spellcaster. But if they make it significantly worse than a fighter then there is no point using it b/c you're better off staying as a spell slinger.
1) Your poll is missing an option (closer to UA4.) UA6 is already the one that's closer to 2014.
2) I voted for "completely different." My idea was for them to cap Combat Wild Shape at CR 1 forms and then scale those, essentially transforming those into the templates. That way they can make CR0-1 versions of any animal people might want - bears, spiders, tigers, fish, snakes, birds etc etc - and have a much cleaner balance point to build from.
I might be wrong, but I think the whole point of Circle of the Moon subclass is shapeshifting. People pick this subclass to crank up shapeshifting to the maximum. Turn into really powerful stuff. However:
Yeah, it's a general problem with any full caster who also does something else -- spellcasting is such a strong feature that there just isn't space for a lot else. The 2014 version also suffers from the problem of gear -- a class who can't use gear (such as druid in wild shape in 2014) is either going to be overpowered in a low gear game, underpowered in a high gear game, or both.
Then again, spellcasters don't really depend on gear and they're doing just fine. Although they don't put their AC to the test as often. Monks, too. Shapeshifters would have a similar solution to monks.
They're less dependent on gear than martial characters, but having items that boost save DC and saves is still quite significant to the power of a character. In any case, if the moon druid is pretending to function as a martial, presumably it should be as equipment-dependent as a martial.
Not being able to cast while in Wildshape is a fair limitation on its power when it was as powerful as it was in 5e. It seems their primary goal of 5eR is to cut down the additional hp it gave. That’s fine but some changes need to be made to accommodate the lack in hit points. Especially for the Moon Druid. I didn’t mind templates and actually see them as a more balanced way to handle Wildshape, but the more fun way is statblocks. I do see a place they could both exist. For moon druids instead of templates replacing the beast stat blocks, maybe they add to the block. Also as some have said the Druid should be able to use spellslots while Wildshape to enhance its melee combat to be equal to a fighter.
2ND LEVEL: WILD SHAPE
The power of nature infuses you, allowing you to assume the form of an animal. As a Bonus Action, you transform into a Beast form that you have learned for this feature (see “Known Forms” below). You stay in that form for a number of hours equal to half your Druid level (round down) or until you use Wild Shape again,
have the Incapacitated condition, or die. You can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action. If the form is tiny you must concentrate to maintain it as if concentrating on a spell.Known Forms. You start knowing your Proficiency bonus+ your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) forms for this feature, chosen from among Beast stat blocks that have a maximum Challenge Rating of 1/4 and that lack a Fly Speed.
Rather than choosing, you may start with the Riding Horse, Spider, and Wolf.Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can replace one of your known forms with another eligible form.When you gain certain Druid levels, the maximum Challenge Rating for your forms increases, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. In addition, starting at 8th level, you can adopt a form that has a Fly Speed, and you no longer need to concentrate to maintain tiny forms.
Number of Uses. You can use Wild Shape twice. You regain one expended use when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.
You gain additional uses when you reach certain Druid levels, as shown in the Wild Shape column of the Druid table.
Rules While Transformed. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:
Game Statistics. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the Beast, but you retain your Hit Points; Hit Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features;
speciestraits; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours. If the creature has any legendary or lair actions, you can’t use them.No Spellcasting. You can’t cast spells, but transforming doesn’t break your Concentration on a spell you’ve already cast (unless you take a tiny form before 8th level) or prevent you from taking actions that are part of a spell, such as Call Lightning, that you’ve already cast.
Objects. Your ability to handle objects is determined by the form’s limbs, rather than your own. In addition, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s size and shape. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form.
Using Spell Slots: While in a Wild Shape form you my use your reaction when you fail a Concentration check to expend a 1st level or higher spell slot to succeed the Concentration check instead. Additionally if your form is not tiny you may use your bonus action to expend a 1st level or higher spell slot and gain 1d6 per level of the expended spell slot temporarily hit points.
Moon Druid
3RD LEVEL: CIRCLE FORMS
The rites of your circle grant you the ability to transform into more dangerous animal forms; the maximum Challenge Rating for your Wild Shape is 1.
3RD LEVEL: COMBAT WILD SHAPE
You have learned ancient techniques that allow you to channel the magic of the moon to bolster yourself while using Wild Shape, granting you the following benefits:
Bestial Strike. When you take the attack action you may replace any attack(s) in the Beast Stat Block with a Bestial Strike: Melee Attack: your Spell Attack Modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: Size die + your Wisdom modifier Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage. Tiny 1d4, small 1d6, medium 1d8, large 2d6, Huge or bigger 2d8
Regeneration: You can use a bonus action to expend one spell slot to regain 1d8 per level of the spell slot expended + Wisdom modifier hit points.
Natural Armor Boost: As an action or bonus action, you can expend a spell slot of 1st level or higher to gain +2 per level of the spell slot to your forms AC. This cannot raise your forms AC above 20 and ends when you change forms or use Wild Shape feature again.
6TH LEVEL: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS
The maximum Challenge Rating of your Wild Shape now equals your Druid level divided by 3 (round down).
In addition, each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Force damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks.
10TH LEVEL: UNIQUE CIRCLE FORMS
When you take a Wild Shape form you may expend another use of Wild Shape to add the Alpha, Chimera or Massive Form template to the form as part of the same bonus action.
14TH LEVEL: THOUSAND FORMS
You are no longer limited in the number of forms you may know. In addition you may add two Unique Circle Form templates to a Wild Shape form, but must expend a Wild Shape use for each template added to the form.
I making this up on the fly so it’s not balanced and just to give an idea of the type of things I would want implemented.
I feel like UA6 Moon Druid is almost there, but needs completely different level 10 and 14 features. Also, the level 6 feature is just the natural progression of Combat Wildshape and shouldn't use 90% of a feature slot. So I guess I'm voting for "something different" seeing as that is like... Half of the UA6 version.
I am of the opinion that Moon Druid either needs to have access to more of their spellcasting in Wildshape form or need to burn spell slots to empower their Wildshape. Just using spell slots for temp HP generation via Wildshape uses doesn't feel great. Mainly because of how much anti-synergy with other classes and spells comes from having the core subclass mechanic revolve around it.
Firstly, I'd have Wildshape AC just be the beast's AC + WIS Bonus rather than being the druid's armor value. That way Moon Druid doesn't NEED to take Warden Order to be viable in melee. It'd also make sure that high AC forms are still desirable even if their damage output is lower.
I'd have Combat Wildshape To Hit and Save DC scale with the druid's Spell To Hit and Spell Save DC at level 6. At the same level, I'd allow Moon Druid to cast Self and Touch range spells in Wildshape form, allowing the Moon Druid to recast buffs, heals, and close-range damage spells while transformed to enhance their survivability and damage output through their magic.
At level 10 I'd allow a curated list of Monstrosities, Plants, and Dragonkin (Owlbears, Griffons, Drakes, Wyverns, etc) to be added to the list of available forms so there are more powerful high CR creatures the druid has access to. This is to make sure druids have better variety at higher CR levels, though I'd also hope the upcoming OneDnD Monster Manual just has a better distribution of Beasts as well.
At level 14 I'd just snatch Alternating Forms from UA4. Allow the druid to swap between beast and caster form as many times as they like for one use of wildshape. Maybe even buff it to let the druid switch between beast forms without expending an additional use as well. Since the Wildshape uses the druid's HP now it won't create an infinite well of HP like it would have in the 5e version, and being able to rapidly switch forms would allow Moon Druids to slip out of beast shape, cast a big spell, then slip back the next turn without worrying about blowing their Wildshape use.
If they did let you switch between forms as well it'd also let Moon Druids swap combat forms based on utility. Turn into a flying creature when the dragon tries to fly away. Turn into a grappling creature when you want to pin the boss down. Swap to a melee heavy hitter for DPS or swap to a high AC, tanky form when surrounded. It'd offer a lot of tactical flexibility, but since the druid is limited by CR they aren't gaining much raw power by changing shape constantly, but it does make the druid feel like they have truly mastered their shapeshifting power to its highest level.
Honestly it's wild to me that they tried to turn so many other things into a spell, but didn't try it with Wildshape where it would make the most sense.
I'm sure plenty of people would object to this, but it would be an appropriate cost for temporary martial equivalency (scaling your CR with spell level), and to be as good as a martial all day, you'd have to spend all your higher spell slots so you'd be trading your spellcaster goodies. It would still be superior because you'd have the option of one or another, but it would be a heck of a lot closer to fair than current 5e.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Those already exist they are: Alter Self, Polymorph, Tenser's Tansformation, Tasha's Otherworldly Guise, Draconic Transformation, and True Polymorph.
Don’t forget Shapechange.
Which is a bit of a problem spell (though that's hardly unique; a lot of level 9 spells are pretty broken, level 9 appears to be "this is where we send the cool but gamebreaking ideas").
How is Shapechange gamebreaking? It specifically says you can’t gain HP on the form changes, and the change costs an Action.
It lets you turn into CR 20 forms and, while it specifically excludes spellcasting and legendary actions, it doesn't have limits on other recharge abilities (for example: turn into a balor (summoner variant)) and can still use legendary resistance. It also has the general problem of requiring PCs to make use of monster stat blocks, which (a) adds exponential complexity, and (b) monster stat blocks really aren't balanced for being used by PCs.
The complexity is the point, though. The simple fact is that you cannot have truly meaningful shapechanging powers like this without the complexity.
How is that worse than True Polymorph?
Truly meaningful shapechanging powers are prone to being game breaking.
It isn't. There are a bunch of game breaking spells at level 9. The hideously complex ones are Gate, Shapechange, True Polymorph, and Wish. Invulnerability an autowin against an awful lot of CR 20+ creatures. Meteor Swarm is merely hilariously overtuned (the standard for inventing a new spell at level 9 is 14d6. It does 40d6). Prismatic Wall is poorly written (destroy one wall, and suddenly you can just shoot non-magical arrows through it. Magic arrows still get stopped. Oh, and a dragon can just breathe right through it, all it stops is normal ranged attacks, magical ranged attacks, and spells) and overtuned (50d6, this time).
It's not like there aren't broken spells at lower level, such as magic jar and simulacrum, but 9th level is where they just gave up on the concept of balance. Which is not to say that there shouldn't be over the top broken stuff... but it's guaranteed to be a headache.
Invulnerability has the minor drawback of requiring concentration while doing nothing to kill the enemy at a tier when it's pretty easy for the DM to find something that can Incapacitate you for a round.
The only CR 20+ creatures in the monster manual with means to break invulnerability in their default stat block are the ancient silver dragon (unless the PC has freedom of movement) the lich, and the pit fiend (also blocked by freedom of movement). Sure, it's tier 4 play, it's entirely expected that the DM throws a blizzard of weird stuff at the PCs, but that doesn't mean the spell isn't a balance issue.