First, I like the changes in the PHB Playtest 8 Monk. But a discussion came up, off topic, in This Thread because I opened my big mouth, so I thought I would start a discussion here, where it belongs.
In the playtest, Monks lost some utility with Tongue of the Sun and Moon which says:
Starting at 13th level, you learn to touch the ki of other minds so that you understand all spoken languages. Moreover, any creature that can understand a language can understand what you say.
Now, this isn't a great feature. It's a ribbon. But it is something that Monks could do outside of combat, which they sorely lack. And it was replaced with nothing.
Monks lost immunity to Disease and Poison, . Previous UA's mentioned that Disease was going away so it wasn't needed, and it seems they are getting rid of immunities in classes (monk, druid, paladin maybe some others) so not a big loss and removing the Poisoned condition is part of the UA's Self Restoration feature at 10th level. It also incapsulates Stillness of Mind feature as well.
They lost invisibility and Astral Projection, which was part of Empty Body at 18th level, but they kept the resistance to all damage except Force for 1 minute.
So the question is, with the improvements of utility/skills in other classes like Fighters and Barbarians in 1 D&D, should Monks also get some kind of boost? One thought I had was with Discipline Point use the monk could substitute their WIS modifier for certain skills. So if you needed to persuade someone you weren't using your CHA dump stat but instead using that high wisdom for the check. Now I know there are rules for using other than the suggested ability score modifier, like using STR to intimidate instead of CHA. But it's something.
This is a good question. The Monk 5E out of combat features mentioned are all late levels. Most campaigns end by level 11. I am of the opinion that any out of combat abilities should show up in early levels to be relevant. UA8 Monk made necessary changes to combat capabilities by jam packing levels 1-4 with features. There is not much wiggle room to add out of combat features to UA8 Monk levels 1-4. The earliest I see for a completely additional feature is at level 7 (in addition to Evasion).
Here are the options I have seen presented.
Category 1: Use WIS instead of CHA/INT for some skills. Of the Monk skills listed in UA8, I see History and Religion as qualifying.
Category 2: Add WIS or Martial Arts Dice to some skills. Possibly at the cost of 1 Discipline Point. Simple and effective. A Shadow Monk adding a Martial Arts Dice to Stealth checks is easy to imagine.
Category 3: Relocating Water/Wall Running (Acrobatic Movement) to an earlier level. Flavorful and unique. Self-restoration could then be moved from level 10 to 9.
I'm of the opinion Acrobatic Movement can be relocated to be part of Step of the Wind, replacing the jump distance increase. Then it becomes a flavorful feature for both out of combat and in combat. There are ways to balance this, such as requiring a running start of X feet, limiting the wall/water movement to X feet per Monk level, or requiring a total movement speed (speed + dash + dash) of X feet.
Of course. Why shouldn't they? And moreover, when people are praising other classes receiving new out-of-combat features, it's simply massively hypocritical and incredibly selfish towards the players who enjoy playing Monk to defend and excuse the way Monks have had such features stripped or nerfed from the base class and subclasses. (And yes, people have constantly done so.)
Also, forcing the Monk to spend Discipline Points to gain skill benefits is a terrible idea, because other classes' out-of-combat features don't require them to expend their own primary resource. It would be another glaring example of OneD&D forcing Monks to constantly burn through Discipline Points to keep up with what other classes get to do for free.
Of course. Why shouldn't they? And moreover, when people are praising other classes receiving new out-of-combat features, it's simply massively hypocritical and incredibly selfish towards the players who enjoy playing Monk to defend and excuse the way Monks have had such features stripped or nerfed from the base class and subclasses. (And yes, people have constantly done so.)
Also, forcing the Monk to spend Discipline Points to gain skill benefits is a terrible idea, because other classes' out-of-combat features don't require them to expend their own primary resource. It would be another glaring example of OneD&D forcing Monks to constantly burn through Discipline Points to keep up with what other classes get to do for free.
I don’t think I’ve read anyone “praising” the loss of features. No “thank goodness they got rid of Astral Projection” or “Finally, Tongue of the Sun and Moon and that pesky 1 minute Invisibility are gone. Good riddance!”
There are those who don’t lament the loss of Tongue of the Sun and Moon as they see it as a ribbon feature that comes too late. But maybe I missed those “praising” comments.
I only suggested a DP cost for a skill boost as an idea since Tactical Mind uses a resource and Primal Knowledge requires the use or Rage, which if you are not expecting combat in that 10 minute duration then a resource cost as well.
But I would be more than happy to get something for free.
While I agree that monk should get some OOC stuff, I believe we are in the minority for believing so. It seems more people want "monk" to be "action-man" - aka the equipment-less fighter - rather than a wise/sage spiritual monk.
While I agree that monk should get some OOC stuff, I believe we are in the minority for believing so. It seems more people want "monk" to be "action-man" - aka the equipment-less fighter - rather than a wise/sage spiritual monk.
Even the fighter gained out of combat stuff in the recent playtest stuff. I thought this was because they were acknowledging that every class should be able to bring something to non-combat scenarios.
I don’t think I’ve read anyone “praising” the loss of features. No “thank goodness they got rid of Astral Projection” or “Finally, Tongue of the Sun and Moon and that pesky 1 minute Invisibility are gone. Good riddance!”
There are those who don’t lament the loss of Tongue of the Sun and Moon as they see it as a ribbon feature that comes too late. But maybe I missed those “praising” comments.
I never said "praising" in relation to the Monk losing features; I said "defended and excused". Because every time I've seen people bring up everything the Monk has lost in the recent UA, I'm told those things are completely worthless in comparison to being able to use your bonus action to not contribute to fights. Every time I've seen people mention the fact that Monk gets nothing to give them additional out-of- or in-combat utility, that gets dismissed because you can restore your Discipline Points once per day (because you need to spam them to not get left behind with other classes' cost-free new features).
While I agree that monk should get some OOC stuff, I believe we are in the minority for believing so. It seems more people want "monk" to be "action-man" - aka the equipment-less fighter - rather than a wise/sage spiritual monk.
And given what Monk has - and hasn't - received, such people want the Monk to only be good at pure damage output, at spamming Discipline abilities for maximum damage-per-round.
But such people certainly aren't the majority, even if they create an atmosphere that's consistently hostile towards people who enjoy the Monk as it exists rather than complaining that it doesn't let them feel like Goku soloing every foe.
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that. Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
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No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
Seeing as Monks were stripped of the non-damage feature that every other martial gets, and stripped of non-damage features their base class and subclasses get...
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
A statement like this is pretty much the definition of campaign-dependent. Some people run low combat games, and no amount of extra stunning strikes or bonus action disengages is worth losing being able to talk to everyone. I’ll say I generally would agree with you that low combat is not my preferred play style. But for others, that’s what they like.
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that. Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
I like that second one...
Spiritual Sight 13th level Monk You can spend 1 minute focusing on one object, creature, or structure that you can touch to sense the life that has shaped it. You experience a 1 minute vision of the most significant moment in the past of the thing you touch. Once used you cannot use this feature on the same thing again for 24 hours unless you spend 3 DP to activate it again.
Tongue of Sun and Moon 9th level Monk Your self-awareness enables you to connect with other people on an instinctive level. You can understand all spoken language. When you touch a willing creature you can communicate with them telepathically including sharing memories directly between each other, while communicating in this way you can use an action to remove one condition causing them to be charmed or frightened.
And merge the current Acrobatic Movement with Slowfall.
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
A statement like this is pretty much the definition of campaign-dependent. Some people run low combat games, and no amount of extra stunning strikes or bonus action disengages is worth losing being able to talk to everyone. I’ll say I generally would agree with you that low combat is not my preferred play style. But for others, that’s what they like.
Most OOC situations can be dealt with using skill checks. Combat features are required for combat. It's NEVER a good trade. The fact is, the game is designed around combat. Classes need to be competitive at that, because NO combat is not the norm. I generally do not need special class features to deal with RP interactions. The skill checks are generally good enough to cover the rest. I can 100% feel involved in an RP centric campaign with what the system provides out of the box. RP centric requires a players imagination. I have one of those. I don't need a special ribbon ability to shine there. OOC abilities are just window dressing. Sure I'd like to have them, but I'm, not giving up combat abilities for them, regardless of campaign. Probably, because I wouldn't play a game with no combat at all. I tend to get bored out of my mind when we have pure RP nights.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
A statement like this is pretty much the definition of campaign-dependent. Some people run low combat games, and no amount of extra stunning strikes or bonus action disengages is worth losing being able to talk to everyone. I’ll say I generally would agree with you that low combat is not my preferred play style. But for others, that’s what they like.
Most OOC situations can be dealt with using skill checks. Combat features are required for combat. It's NEVER a good trade. The fact is, the game is designed around combat. Classes need to be competitive at that, because NO combat is not the norm. I generally do not need special class features to deal with RP interactions. The skill checks are generally good enough to cover the rest. I can 100% feel involved in an RP centric campaign with what the system provides out of the box. RP centric requires a players imagination. I have one of those. I don't need a special ribbon ability to shine there. OOC abilities are just window dressing. Sure I'd like to have them, but I'm, not giving up combat abilities for them, regardless of campaign. Probably, because I wouldn't play a game with no combat at all. I tend to get bored out of my mind when we have pure RP nights.
I get what you are saying and I largely agree. But you’re still talking about personal preference. Not objective fact. Some people like OoC abilities. They feel it makes for a more rounded character and will make that trade. It’s what’s fun for them. Not for you, and I respect your opinion. Not for me either. But we aren’t everyone.
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that...
...Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
what if it was a confirmation of someone else's information check? the wizard makes a history check and the monk, having heard the explanation given to the party, senses the rightness or lack of cohesion in that report. kinda like a zone of truth for history/religion/etc.: able to detect a false narrative or know a big fact was left out. not a lie detector, but maybe a lied-to detector? ...this might be a go nowhere thought but I wanted to see it in writing to determine that.
... but maybe just a straight lie detector?? not as game breaking as it sounds if your require touch. I like the idea of mental psionic stuff added in later levels.
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
A statement like this is pretty much the definition of campaign-dependent. Some people run low combat games, and no amount of extra stunning strikes or bonus action disengages is worth losing being able to talk to everyone. I’ll say I generally would agree with you that low combat is not my preferred play style. But for others, that’s what they like.
Most OOC situations can be dealt with using skill checks. Combat features are required for combat. It's NEVER a good trade. The fact is, the game is designed around combat. Classes need to be competitive at that, because NO combat is not the norm. I generally do not need special class features to deal with RP interactions. The skill checks are generally good enough to cover the rest. I can 100% feel involved in an RP centric campaign with what the system provides out of the box. RP centric requires a players imagination. I have one of those. I don't need a special ribbon ability to shine there. OOC abilities are just window dressing. Sure I'd like to have them, but I'm, not giving up combat abilities for them, regardless of campaign. Probably, because I wouldn't play a game with no combat at all. I tend to get bored out of my mind when we have pure RP nights.
What combat features did fighters and barbarians lose to gain their OOC features?
Most OOC situations can be dealt with using skill checks. Combat features are required for combat. It's NEVER a good trade. The fact is, the game is designed around combat. Classes need to be competitive at that, because NO combat is not the norm. I generally do not need special class features to deal with RP interactions. The skill checks are generally good enough to cover the rest. I can 100% feel involved in an RP centric campaign with what the system provides out of the box. RP centric requires a players imagination. I have one of those. I don't need a special ribbon ability to shine there. OOC abilities are just window dressing. Sure I'd like to have them, but I'm, not giving up combat abilities for them, regardless of campaign. Probably, because I wouldn't play a game with no combat at all. I tend to get bored out of my mind when we have pure RP nights.
Except all of those skill-check-related features other classes that aren't Monks are getting can be utilized for in-combat benefit as well, so that further puts Monks behind in combat utility on top of non-combat utility.
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that. Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
I like that second one...
Spiritual Sight 13th level Monk You can spend 1 minute focusing on one object, creature, or structure that you can touch to sense the life that has shaped it. You experience a 1 minute vision of the most significant moment in the past of the thing you touch. Once used you cannot use this feature on the same thing again for 24 hours unless you spend 3 DP to activate it again.
Tongue of Sun and Moon 9th level Monk Your self-awareness enables you to connect with other people on an instinctive level. You can understand all spoken language. When you touch a willing creature you can communicate with them telepathically including sharing memories directly between each other, while communicating in this way you can use an action to remove one condition causing them to be charmed or frightened.
And merge the current Acrobatic Movement with Slowfall.
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that...
...Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
what if it was a confirmation of someone else's information check? the wizard makes a history check and the monk, having heard the explanation given to the party, senses the rightness or lack of cohesion in that report. kinda like a zone of truth for history/religion/etc.: able to detect a false narrative or know a big fact was left out. not a lie detector, but maybe a lied-to detector? ...this might be a go nowhere thought but I wanted to see it in writing to determine that.
... but maybe just a straight lie detector?? not as game breaking as it sounds if your require touch. I like the idea of mental psionic stuff added in later levels.
Oh, that is kind of neat. I would like to see that developed further.
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Skill checks are not the end all be all of out of combat utility. Step of the wind, slow fall, evasion, and acrobatic movement are all solid out of combat features even if they are also good in combat features. That being said an ability that let you bonus action study(insight) to understand a creature with the option to spend a ki point to be understood on a success would be a pretty cool addition to monks discipline.
I get what you are saying and I largely agree. But you’re still talking about personal preference. Not objective fact. Some people like OoC abilities. They feel it makes for a more rounded character and will make that trade. It’s what’s fun for them. Not for you, and I respect your opinion. Not for me either. But we aren’t everyone.
What about the fact that they're moving Monk away from its narrow zen buddhist roots? That's where the ability to speak to every living creature came from (as an extension of their 1e speak with animals and speak with plants abilities.) They don't want every monk to be pigeonholed into that flavor, but keeping TotSaM would do that.
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First, I like the changes in the PHB Playtest 8 Monk. But a discussion came up, off topic, in This Thread because I opened my big mouth, so I thought I would start a discussion here, where it belongs.
In the playtest, Monks lost some utility with Tongue of the Sun and Moon which says:
Now, this isn't a great feature. It's a ribbon. But it is something that Monks could do outside of combat, which they sorely lack. And it was replaced with nothing.
Monks lost immunity to Disease and Poison, . Previous UA's mentioned that Disease was going away so it wasn't needed, and it seems they are getting rid of immunities in classes (monk, druid, paladin maybe some others) so not a big loss and removing the Poisoned condition is part of the UA's Self Restoration feature at 10th level. It also incapsulates Stillness of Mind feature as well.
They lost invisibility and Astral Projection, which was part of Empty Body at 18th level, but they kept the resistance to all damage except Force for 1 minute.
So the question is, with the improvements of utility/skills in other classes like Fighters and Barbarians in 1 D&D, should Monks also get some kind of boost? One thought I had was with Discipline Point use the monk could substitute their WIS modifier for certain skills. So if you needed to persuade someone you weren't using your CHA dump stat but instead using that high wisdom for the check. Now I know there are rules for using other than the suggested ability score modifier, like using STR to intimidate instead of CHA. But it's something.
Any thoughts?
This is a good question. The Monk 5E out of combat features mentioned are all late levels. Most campaigns end by level 11. I am of the opinion that any out of combat abilities should show up in early levels to be relevant. UA8 Monk made necessary changes to combat capabilities by jam packing levels 1-4 with features. There is not much wiggle room to add out of combat features to UA8 Monk levels 1-4. The earliest I see for a completely additional feature is at level 7 (in addition to Evasion).
Here are the options I have seen presented.
Category 1: Use WIS instead of CHA/INT for some skills. Of the Monk skills listed in UA8, I see History and Religion as qualifying.
Category 2: Add WIS or Martial Arts Dice to some skills. Possibly at the cost of 1 Discipline Point. Simple and effective. A Shadow Monk adding a Martial Arts Dice to Stealth checks is easy to imagine.
Category 3: Relocating Water/Wall Running (Acrobatic Movement) to an earlier level. Flavorful and unique. Self-restoration could then be moved from level 10 to 9.
I'm of the opinion Acrobatic Movement can be relocated to be part of Step of the Wind, replacing the jump distance increase. Then it becomes a flavorful feature for both out of combat and in combat. There are ways to balance this, such as requiring a running start of X feet, limiting the wall/water movement to X feet per Monk level, or requiring a total movement speed (speed + dash + dash) of X feet.
Of course. Why shouldn't they? And moreover, when people are praising other classes receiving new out-of-combat features, it's simply massively hypocritical and incredibly selfish towards the players who enjoy playing Monk to defend and excuse the way Monks have had such features stripped or nerfed from the base class and subclasses. (And yes, people have constantly done so.)
Also, forcing the Monk to spend Discipline Points to gain skill benefits is a terrible idea, because other classes' out-of-combat features don't require them to expend their own primary resource. It would be another glaring example of OneD&D forcing Monks to constantly burn through Discipline Points to keep up with what other classes get to do for free.
I don’t think I’ve read anyone “praising” the loss of features. No “thank goodness they got rid of Astral Projection” or “Finally, Tongue of the Sun and Moon and that pesky 1 minute Invisibility are gone. Good riddance!”
There are those who don’t lament the loss of Tongue of the Sun and Moon as they see it as a ribbon feature that comes too late. But maybe I missed those “praising” comments.
I only suggested a DP cost for a skill boost as an idea since Tactical Mind uses a resource and Primal Knowledge requires the use or Rage, which if you are not expecting combat in that 10 minute duration then a resource cost as well.
But I would be more than happy to get something for free.
While I agree that monk should get some OOC stuff, I believe we are in the minority for believing so. It seems more people want "monk" to be "action-man" - aka the equipment-less fighter - rather than a wise/sage spiritual monk.
Even the fighter gained out of combat stuff in the recent playtest stuff. I thought this was because they were acknowledging that every class should be able to bring something to non-combat scenarios.
I never said "praising" in relation to the Monk losing features; I said "defended and excused". Because every time I've seen people bring up everything the Monk has lost in the recent UA, I'm told those things are completely worthless in comparison to being able to use your bonus action to not contribute to fights. Every time I've seen people mention the fact that Monk gets nothing to give them additional out-of- or in-combat utility, that gets dismissed because you can restore your Discipline Points once per day (because you need to spam them to not get left behind with other classes' cost-free new features).
And given what Monk has - and hasn't - received, such people want the Monk to only be good at pure damage output, at spamming Discipline abilities for maximum damage-per-round.
But such people certainly aren't the majority, even if they create an atmosphere that's consistently hostile towards people who enjoy the Monk as it exists rather than complaining that it doesn't let them feel like Goku soloing every foe.
No, people don't ONLY want monks to be good at damage. But, OOC abilities are /not/ worth trading combat abilities for.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I think about characters in fiction that can use their ki/monk discipline in ways outside of combat and things like touching someone to calm them down (calm emotions?). Or, using DBZ as an example, when Goku touched Krillin and used his ki to learn everything that had happened while he was not around (encode memories, but in reverse?). It might be cool for a monk to be able to do that. Alternatively, maybe when a wizard does some history check on the ruins the party is exploring and learning gaining information about the place that might be found in a textbook, a monk might be able to touch a wall and gain a much more intimate understanding of the things that had happened in that room throughout history (bonus to history for structures you touch?). Or having an inherent understanding of whether someone is trustworthy (bonus to Insight).
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Seeing as Monks were stripped of the non-damage feature that every other martial gets, and stripped of non-damage features their base class and subclasses get...
A statement like this is pretty much the definition of campaign-dependent. Some people run low combat games, and no amount of extra stunning strikes or bonus action disengages is worth losing being able to talk to everyone.
I’ll say I generally would agree with you that low combat is not my preferred play style. But for others, that’s what they like.
I like that second one...
Spiritual Sight
13th level Monk
You can spend 1 minute focusing on one object, creature, or structure that you can touch to sense the life that has shaped it. You experience a 1 minute vision of the most significant moment in the past of the thing you touch. Once used you cannot use this feature on the same thing again for 24 hours unless you spend 3 DP to activate it again.
Tongue of Sun and Moon
9th level Monk
Your self-awareness enables you to connect with other people on an instinctive level. You can understand all spoken language. When you touch a willing creature you can communicate with them telepathically including sharing memories directly between each other, while communicating in this way you can use an action to remove one condition causing them to be charmed or frightened.
And merge the current Acrobatic Movement with Slowfall.
Most OOC situations can be dealt with using skill checks. Combat features are required for combat. It's NEVER a good trade. The fact is, the game is designed around combat. Classes need to be competitive at that, because NO combat is not the norm. I generally do not need special class features to deal with RP interactions. The skill checks are generally good enough to cover the rest. I can 100% feel involved in an RP centric campaign with what the system provides out of the box. RP centric requires a players imagination. I have one of those. I don't need a special ribbon ability to shine there. OOC abilities are just window dressing. Sure I'd like to have them, but I'm, not giving up combat abilities for them, regardless of campaign. Probably, because I wouldn't play a game with no combat at all. I tend to get bored out of my mind when we have pure RP nights.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I get what you are saying and I largely agree. But you’re still talking about personal preference. Not objective fact. Some people like OoC abilities. They feel it makes for a more rounded character and will make that trade. It’s what’s fun for them. Not for you, and I respect your opinion. Not for me either. But we aren’t everyone.
what if it was a confirmation of someone else's information check? the wizard makes a history check and the monk, having heard the explanation given to the party, senses the rightness or lack of cohesion in that report. kinda like a zone of truth for history/religion/etc.: able to detect a false narrative or know a big fact was left out. not a lie detector, but maybe a lied-to detector? ...this might be a go nowhere thought but I wanted to see it in writing to determine that.
... but maybe just a straight lie detector?? not as game breaking as it sounds if your require touch. I like the idea of mental psionic stuff added in later levels.
What combat features did fighters and barbarians lose to gain their OOC features?
Except all of those skill-check-related features other classes that aren't Monks are getting can be utilized for in-combat benefit as well, so that further puts Monks behind in combat utility on top of non-combat utility.
I like these.
Oh, that is kind of neat. I would like to see that developed further.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock | He/Him/They/Them
You can try DDB for free using the Basic Rules, free adventures, MCV1:SC, and homebrew. Answers about physical books, purchases, and subbing.
What is it like to be on the forums.
Skill checks are not the end all be all of out of combat utility. Step of the wind, slow fall, evasion, and acrobatic movement are all solid out of combat features even if they are also good in combat features. That being said an ability that let you bonus action study(insight) to understand a creature with the option to spend a ki point to be understood on a success would be a pretty cool addition to monks discipline.
What about the fact that they're moving Monk away from its narrow zen buddhist roots? That's where the ability to speak to every living creature came from (as an extension of their 1e speak with animals and speak with plants abilities.) They don't want every monk to be pigeonholed into that flavor, but keeping TotSaM would do that.