It means that people often overemphasize the number of rolls you are making for the checks, which makes resources-based bonuses less valuable. The same people also underemphasize the variety of rolls that you make, which makes applicable-to-any-roll bonuses less valuable than Expertise. Also, that resource the fighter expends for this bonus to the roll is in most cases the best use, as the primary is kinda ~eh, to be perfectly honest.
I think you are leaving out that more proficiencies is also a part of being a rogue. So a limited resource use boost isn’t equal to an always on proficiency and simply isn’t equal to to expertise at all. Also the best use use of of second wind is probably tactical shift, which rogues also can do all the time without a resource. Adding a dice roll to a check is always less dependable than adding a flat bonus. Also if this topic statement was an argument to improve rogue’s skill checks that would make sense, but this is an awkward topic that tried to say because someone else can succeed skill checks sometimes rogues need more damage. It probably should have separated those topics.
Sentinel doesn't stop you from hiding in combat, nor is it a taunt. It rewards you for being in melee by keeping enemies from being able to disengage from you safely, as well as if they attack someone else. If you're able to hide from the enemy they will be forced to attack someone else and therefore trigger it.
I did request in the last survey that they get hand crossbows back, but ultimately they don't need them.
"2)rogue has roughly the same or worse dpr potential as they had in 2014 whereas the average (in terms of optimized vs non optomized) damage of martials has increased"
This is absolutely untrue for optimized damage. The nerfing of GWM and especially Sharpshooter, means that optimized martial damage is significantly lower in UA8 compared to 5e, whereas Rogue optimized damage hasn't changed at all (assuming GFB & BB are still allowed) or only slightly decreased if NuTrueStrike must replace GFB/BB.
PS Sharpshooter was always a poor choice of feat for Rogues, 90% of the time using SS would reduce their DPR.
People have done the math, optimized and non-optimized damage for martials in One Dnd has been increased. It's just that now feats are not as necessary for optimization as they used to be. Damage boosts come more from your subclass choice.
I find that extremely unlikely as Battlemaster hasn't had any buff to its dpr yet it's major source of DPR buff - Precise Attack + SS is nerfed. All archers for certain have been massively nerfed, in 5e archers had the highest DPR of all builds in UA8 they are barely above sword & board.
"2)rogue has roughly the same or worse dpr potential as they had in 2014 whereas the average (in terms of optimized vs non optomized) damage of martials has increased"
This is absolutely untrue for optimized damage. The nerfing of GWM and especially Sharpshooter, means that optimized martial damage is significantly lower in UA8 compared to 5e, whereas Rogue optimized damage hasn't changed at all (assuming GFB & BB are still allowed) or only slightly decreased if NuTrueStrike must replace GFB/BB.
PS Sharpshooter was always a poor choice of feat for Rogues, 90% of the time using SS would reduce their DPR.
this is incorrect, optimized damage is about the same in onednd maybe slightly less, but the claim I made was that the average damage of classes went up. Basically optimized is about the same, and floor is raised.
Sentinel doesn't stop you from hiding in combat, nor is it a taunt. It rewards you for being in melee by keeping enemies from being able to disengage from you safely, as well as if they attack someone else. If you're able to hide from the enemy they will be forced to attack someone else and therefore trigger it.
I did request in the last survey that they get hand crossbows back, but ultimately they don't need them.
Sentinel requires you to be within 5 feet of the target, and an ally, this will dramatically reduce your ability to hide in combat. its unlikely you will have full cover close enough to get into position, its also means since you ended your turn next to someone, you will probably take damage if you try to move to hide. Realistically, you are dramatically reducing your cunning action options and use cases.
Sentinel encourages monsters to attack you, any semi intelligent monster will focus you after they realize you will hit them if they target another creature. They take damage if they attack a different creature, take no damage if they attack you. You are now the priority. Sentinel is a taunt. It is designed to make you a high value target and keep people in melee range of you.
also, if you use your reaction to hit something, you become visible. This means any multiattack melee (most of them past level 4) will have no problem targeting you after you react. Every creature between them and you in initiative will see you. And hide doesnt really stop them from targeting you, just makes it harder to do so.
"2)rogue has roughly the same or worse dpr potential as they had in 2014 whereas the average (in terms of optimized vs non optomized) damage of martials has increased"
This is absolutely untrue for optimized damage. The nerfing of GWM and especially Sharpshooter, means that optimized martial damage is significantly lower in UA8 compared to 5e, whereas Rogue optimized damage hasn't changed at all (assuming GFB & BB are still allowed) or only slightly decreased if NuTrueStrike must replace GFB/BB.
PS Sharpshooter was always a poor choice of feat for Rogues, 90% of the time using SS would reduce their DPR.
People have done the math, optimized and non-optimized damage for martials in One Dnd has been increased. It's just that now feats are not as necessary for optimization as they used to be. Damage boosts come more from your subclass choice.
I find that extremely unlikely as Battlemaster hasn't had any buff to its dpr yet it's major source of DPR buff - Precise Attack + SS is nerfed. All archers for certain have been massively nerfed, in 5e archers had the highest DPR of all builds in UA8 they are barely above sword & board.
battlemaster isnt the highest dps fighter any more. I believe EK is. Also fighter isnt always the highest DPS any more, berserk barb wins depending on the analysis assumptions. Just because the top builds have changed, doesnt mean there aren't high damage builds.
But, new BM still competes due to other factors like, feats all being half feats now, addition of charger, origin free feats, weapon masteries. new relentless, studied attacks, etc.
essentially Old classes can spike early due to variant human and GWM being front loaded before, (broken) but by 7-9 they are generally washed up.
only monk really got nothing. in fact they reduced it. used to have access to Astral plane and ability to talk to all creatures. Now they can only go with out food or water.
Going to the Astral Plane by yourself, and being able to talk to anyone with bad Charisma, are not really benefits. They're just as likely to cause even more trouble for the group as a whole. They were also unlikely to show up in the vast majority of campaigns anyway.
I wouldn't mind if Monk got a bonus ASI.
Losing Astral Projection wasn’t that bad to me, but it was thematic imo. But being able to talk to anyone no matter your charisma isn’t a big deal. Unless you are trying to persuade, intimidate, or Deceive and making a CHA check. Asking an NPC that was being held captive by the BBEG, that you are freeing, for intel doesn’t seem like a big ask without a check. You can be as uncharismatic as possible but I’m sure a captive will welcome your help.
It means that people often overemphasize the number of rolls you are making for the checks, which makes resources-based bonuses less valuable. The same people also underemphasize the variety of rolls that you make, which makes applicable-to-any-roll bonuses less valuable than Expertise. Also, that resource the fighter expends for this bonus to the roll is in most cases the best use, as the primary is kinda ~eh, to be perfectly honest.
I think you are leaving out that more proficiencies is also a part of being a rogue. So a limited resource use boost isn’t equal to an always on proficiency and simply isn’t equal to to expertise at all. Also the best use use of of second wind is probably tactical shift, which rogues also can do all the time without a resource. Adding a dice roll to a check is always less dependable than adding a flat bonus. Also if this topic statement was an argument to improve rogue’s skill checks that would make sense, but this is an awkward topic that tried to say because someone else can succeed skill checks sometimes rogues need more damage. It probably should have separated those topics.
How am I leaving that out? Where did I leave that out? What are you talking about?
Now if we can just get WotC to give the monk a skill boosting feature they can outdo Rogues too! Just kidding (on them outdoing rogue not monks getting a skill boost)
yeah its a lil weird to me they are probably the only class at all now without some type of skill niche, or general strong OoC potential.
cleric can dominate religion checks (+wis) and various OoC spells
Ranger got expertise, deft explorer and spells
barb got primal+rage+lvl 18
bard got spells+BI+expertise
druid can dominate nature checks (+wis)(spells, pets, wildshape)
paladin got divine sense, various support spells/abilities, various control people spells,
warlock got spells, and invocations
wiz access to arcane spells, expertise.
sorc got spells.
fighter tactical mind
only monk really got nothing. in fact they reduced it. used to have access to Astral plane and ability to talk to all creatures. Now they can only go with out food or water.
To be fair monk does have really good movement capabilities that can be OoC utility. Like being able to run/walk across water or up walls, as well as having insane movement speed and agility. A DM could design parkour-esque dungeons and traps that only a monk would be able to navigate with ease.
But monks have always had that good movement so it was nothing gained compared to the other classes.
Losing Astral Projection wasn’t that bad to me, but it was thematic imo. But being able to talk to anyone no matter your charisma isn’t a big deal. Unless you are trying to persuade, intimidate, or Deceive and making a CHA check. Asking an NPC that was being held captive by the BBEG, that you are freeing, for intel doesn’t seem like a big ask without a check. You can be as uncharismatic as possible but I’m sure a captive will welcome your help.
In the very niche scenario where said captive doesn't share a language with anyone in the party, including Common, your group probably will have access to a non-monk solution to this "problem" by the time you're 13th level.
I have already pointed out why the numbers in this are bad, can you stop using it when it's known to be bad. I stopped commenting here because you just run in a circle every time somebody points out the flaw in your argument. You're only able to repeat what you said and add no logical reasoning to anything, people have already told you things like Rogue vs. a Melee only fighter build, is going to do damage when fighter isn't in melee range or that Rogue will over an adventuring day, generally get 1 or 2 more rounds of combat due to their higher initatives. These are facts that you don't supply an real rebuttal too.
But to re-iterate, it bases numbers off of assuming that Eldritch Knight can get advantage every round from find familiar (unlikely under UA version), it relies on weapon swapping that UA8 updated the attack action to prohibit, it assumes booming blade is always able to go off, it also uses the old version of Hex, not the UA version of Hex, can not account for failed concentration throws. It uses both Charger and Hex (both of these will constantly be needing the Bonus Action, Hex to reapply, Charger for Tactical Shift to avoid taking a lot of opportunity attacks). Basically, the numbers there for EK are theoretical only and theoretically, they aren't possible.
How am I leaving that out? Where did I leave that out? What are you talking about?
You're leaving out that the average +5.5 adds very little value to most +0 skills, for example if the fighter has a -1 in Deception while a Bard, a Sorcerer or a Warlock, are likely to start with a +5, get a +6 at level 4 and a +7 at level 5. Even a Paladin would likely have a +2 or a +3 in Deception without spending any resource at all, not even a skill. For a DC 10 Deception check at level 4, the fighter needs an 11 to make it, the Paladin needs a 7 or 8, the bard, sorcerer and warlock need a 4.
With tactical mind, the Fighter has a 50% chance of making the DC. On the 50% chance they fail, tactical mind then makes it 55% of the time (or adds an overall 27.5%, I.E. +5.5). So in total fighter could make it up to 77.5% of the time.
The Paladin has a 65% chance of making the DC
The Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock have a 80% chance of making the DC, that is beating what the fighter gets (by 2.5%) but a fighter has to sacrifice a resource 27.5% of the time they make the DC check to get that. So are you going to get the Bard, the Paladin, The sorcerer or Warlock to be the party face? Or the fighter who is less capable and burns resources to do it? Since deception normally appears in social interactions, the fighter is usually going to be a secondary or tertiary party member in that.
Now if the DC were 20 instead of 10, the fighter would need a 21 to make the DC, this means the minimum they fail from dice roll alone, tactical mind needs them to get at least an 11, so they straight up fail 50% of the time, the average of the remaining 50% is 55%, so at a resource cost when you make it, you can make it 27.5% of the time. The bard, sorcerer and warlock make it on a 14, so they make it 35% of the time from just proficiency and charisma. At level 9, they would likely have a +9 to deception, they only need an 11 to hit a DC20, which means they make it 50% of the time, meanwhile the fighter is still at 27.5%. Tactical Mind gets worse as DCs get higher, where proficiency bonus and ASI will scale, expertise will also scale. Tactical mind gets no better with level where Rogue's skills do and rogue then gets reliable talent on those that it has.
Basically tactical mind is not doing so well come Tier 2 gameplay and is barely hanging on by Tier 3, This is then compounded by the fact that Tactical Mind is competing for the same resource as Second Wind and Tactical Shift, Tactical Shift when it comes up (level 5), will be a better use then Tactical Mind, it's literally extra movement and the ability to avoid opportunity attacks. If you want to say use the Charger feat then Tactical Shift is a requirement to avoid taking extra unnecessary hits.
And then remembering how many ability checks a rogue makes in a dungeon... if there is 8 doors, that is probably 8 to 16 ability checks, for traps on each door and potentially for lock picking the door, may even do perception checks at the door getting that up as high as 24 and then there are other checks, like the stealth checks out of combat for scouting 10-20 foot in front of the party, peering around corners and such, there are other perception checks. Rogue could easily be hitting a good 30-50 ability checks on a good adventuring day, the fighter would have exhausted all their second wind charges by around the 10th ability check, and needs to short rest before potentially even seeing the first round of any combat....
Obviously the number of ability checks will vary from dungeon to dungeon, a disused prison will have a lot more than a simple cave with just a bear at the end of it, not so many but when it counts... the bigger dungeons with more checks, the fighter ain't going to keep up to a rogue.
Losing Astral Projection wasn’t that bad to me, but it was thematic imo. But being able to talk to anyone no matter your charisma isn’t a big deal. Unless you are trying to persuade, intimidate, or Deceive and making a CHA check. Asking an NPC that was being held captive by the BBEG, that you are freeing, for intel doesn’t seem like a big ask without a check. You can be as uncharismatic as possible but I’m sure a captive will welcome your help.
In the very niche scenario where said captive doesn't share a language with anyone in the party, including Common, your group probably will have access to a non-monk solution to this "problem" by the time you're 13th level.
I agree languages in general are niche, but honestly a resourceless "you can understand and make yourself understood by all languages" option doesn't seem particularly common. On the spellcasting side you're looking at Tongues which isn't a ritual, so someone needs to spend a known/prep slot on it as well as the slot to cast it. I'm only seeing a few other subclass features that allow communication to jump a language barrier, and some of them are one-way like the telepathy a Goolock gets, and only another few magic items, and the ones I found require attunement and don't have much else to recommend them. So really the idea that a party will reliably have alternatives for language issues seems a bit unlikely talking about parties in general. Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
I have already pointed out why the numbers in this are bad, can you stop using it when it's known to be bad. I stopped commenting here because you just run in a circle every time somebody points out the flaw in your argument. You're only able to repeat what you said and add no logical reasoning to anything, people have already told you things like Rogue vs. a Melee only fighter build, is going to do damage when fighter isn't in melee range or that Rogue will over an adventuring day, generally get 1 or 2 more rounds of combat due to their higher initatives. These are facts that you don't supply an real rebuttal too.
But to re-iterate, it bases numbers off of assuming that Eldritch Knight can get advantage every round from find familiar (unlikely under UA version), it relies on weapon swapping that UA8 updated the attack action to prohibit, it assumes booming blade is always able to go off, it also uses the old version of Hex, not the UA version of Hex, can not account for failed concentration throws. It uses both Charger and Hex (both of these will constantly be needing the Bonus Action, Hex to reapply, Charger for Tactical Shift to avoid taking a lot of opportunity attacks). Basically, the numbers there for EK are theoretical only and theoretically, they aren't possible.
How am I leaving that out? Where did I leave that out? What are you talking about?
You're leaving out that the average +5.5 adds very little value to most +0 skills, for example if the fighter has a -1 in Deception while a Bard, a Sorcerer or a Warlock, are likely to start with a +5, get a +6 at level 4 and a +7 at level 5. Even a Paladin would likely have a +2 or a +3 in Deception without spending any resource at all, not even a skill. For a DC 10 Deception check at level 4, the fighter needs an 11 to make it, the Paladin needs a 7 or 8, the bard, sorcerer and warlock need a 4.
With tactical mind, the Fighter has a 50% chance of making the DC. On the 50% chance they fail, tactical mind then makes it 55% of the time (or adds an overall 27.5%, I.E. +5.5). So in total fighter could make it up to 77.5% of the time.
The Paladin has a 65% chance of making the DC
The Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock have a 80% chance of making the DC, that is beating what the fighter gets (by 2.5%) but a fighter has to sacrifice a resource 27.5% of the time they make the DC check to get that. So are you going to get the Bard, the Paladin, The sorcerer or Warlock to be the party face? Or the fighter who is less capable and burns resources to do it? Since deception normally appears in social interactions, the fighter is usually going to be a secondary or tertiary party member in that.
Now if the DC were 20 instead of 10, the fighter would need a 21 to make the DC, this means the minimum they fail from dice roll alone, tactical mind needs them to get at least an 11, so they straight up fail 50% of the time, the average of the remaining 50% is 55%, so at a resource cost when you make it, you can make it 27.5% of the time. The bard, sorcerer and warlock make it on a 14, so they make it 35% of the time from just proficiency and charisma. At level 9, they would likely have a +9 to deception, they only need an 11 to hit a DC20, which means they make it 50% of the time, meanwhile the fighter is still at 27.5%. Tactical Mind gets worse as DCs get higher, where proficiency bonus and ASI will scale, expertise will also scale. Tactical mind gets no better with level where Rogue's skills do and rogue then gets reliable talent on those that it has.
Basically tactical mind is not doing so well come Tier 2 gameplay and is barely hanging on by Tier 3, This is then compounded by the fact that Tactical Mind is competing for the same resource as Second Wind and Tactical Shift, Tactical Shift when it comes up (level 5), will be a better use then Tactical Mind, it's literally extra movement and the ability to avoid opportunity attacks. If you want to say use the Charger feat then Tactical Shift is a requirement to avoid taking extra unnecessary hits.
And then remembering how many ability checks a rogue makes in a dungeon... if there is 8 doors, that is probably 8 to 16 ability checks, for traps on each door and potentially for lock picking the door, may even do perception checks at the door getting that up as high as 24 and then there are other checks, like the stealth checks out of combat for scouting 10-20 foot in front of the party, peering around corners and such, there are other perception checks. Rogue could easily be hitting a good 30-50 ability checks on a good adventuring day, the fighter would have exhausted all their second wind charges by around the 10th ability check, and needs to short rest before potentially even seeing the first round of any combat....
Obviously the number of ability checks will vary from dungeon to dungeon, a disused prison will have a lot more than a simple cave with just a bear at the end of it, not so many but when it counts... the bigger dungeons with more checks, the fighter ain't going to keep up to a rogue.
you pointed out you think its bad, I never agreed with you. Its data that people can judge for themselves
If you feel you have nothing to say about something I post say nothing.
UA8 has not prohibited weapon swapping? what are you talking about?
You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a container. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it
every time you make an attack, as part of the attack action, you can equip or unequip one weapon.
there is no current UA version of hex, they recanted hex in playtest 7
Eldritch Blast and Hex revert to their 2014 versions.
charger does not use a BA in one dnd
Charger
Prerequisite:
You have trained to charge headlong into battle, gaining the following benefits:
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Improved Dash. When you take the Dash Action, your Speed increases by 10 feet for that Action.
Charge Attack. If you move at least 10 feet in a straight line immediately before hitting with an attack as part of the Attack Action on your turn, choose one of the following effects: gain a +1d8 bonus to the attack’s damage roll, or push the target up to 10 feet, provided the target you want to push is no more than one Size larger than you. You can use this benefit only once on each of your turns.
you re just wrong about these.
if you are having trouble keeping track of all the current UA stuff use this.
its a collation of all the UA rules following crawfords guidance on how to use the UA's together.
charger only requires you to move 10feet before attacking. That doesnt necessarily require you to leave a threatened area. You also have push mastery which moves an enemy 10 feet on hit. And you can risk AoO or not if you want. its only a d8 per round.
you only need to apply hex some times. (new monster)
Every analysis will make assumptions, analysis doesnt mean you can always do X, it lets you know what the capabilities are. Just like most analysis of rogue assumes SA every round, is it always going to happen? probably not. But assumptions are made to give people some points of comparison.
Fighter and Barbarian can both increase their initial movement via tactical shift, and rage, monk, I don't think I have to describe how they can reach enemies. they also all have natural access to thrown weapons, and reach.
shortbow is the farthest range rogue has access to and is 80 range, Fighter or Barb can move 45-60 feet turn one and throw weapons up to 30 feet. Enemies are generally not going to be 100+ feet from the players. EK also has access to spells, like the new true strike, if they go the INT route.
Barbarian gets advantage on initiative. and will generally have at least dex 14,
fighter is perfectly capable of building for dex, or for dex and strength if they choose. once again most will choose to have dex 14 at level 1.
fighters are an adaptive class, they don't have to be slow if they don't want to be. It doesnt effect their damage.
Also I disagree with idea that rogues will get 1-2 extra rounds per day. When a fight ends is based not only on initiative, but also dpr/hp. and rogue having possibly 3 more dex is not going to lead to one extra round given 6-8 combats. +3 initiative doesnt change a low roll, to a high roll. and low rolls are what cause you to possibly lose a round. Barbarian's advantage is more of a mitigator of poor rolls.
just because you disagree with one facet of data, or choice by someone running numbers, does not negate every facet of the data. Have you done an analysis of EK damage? Have you done an analysis of 2014BM expected DPR?
you think your lack of Analysis is better than a detailed analysis complete with what they did and why they did it, just because you don't like the builds they chose to do?
the point of the post was 2014 BM damage is not the benchmark any more. multiple classes can surpass it, and BM isnt the top fighter build any more. Even if you ignore EK completely, the one dnd martials can surpass 2014 BM. The point still stands.
Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
yall dudes are so manipulative, you believe there is no reason to talk to or understand a person unless you can manipulate them?
Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
yall dudes are so manipulative, you believe there is no reason to talk to or understand a person unless you can manipulate them?
How about... gaining information?
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a language no one in the party has is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of language spells and suchlike before. Having the feature is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a language no one in the party has is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of language spells and suchlike before. Having the feature is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
the design of modules and information should generally he that the team is OK without it, it doesnt mean it has no value to the players, or has no hooks. I don't really believe that GMs should/must create or remove opportunities based on party make up. Many NPCs and modules are designed with no concept of what languages players will choose, or what capabilities the players will have.
You run into a deep gnome, if you speak deep gnome you might have an advantage, if you don't it never mattered for you guys story. Just like you may not notice the perception 20 secret door, Or pray at the lathander statue for 15 religion.
It shouldn't be necessary, but Most Ooc or rolls, should not be needed to move anything forward. There is never a guarantee players will make a roll, or engage with some specific aspect.
these things are there to enrich the experience, provide options, info, maybe items, or offer flavor or RP.
Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
yall dudes are so manipulative, you believe there is no reason to talk to or understand a person unless you can manipulate them?
How about... gaining information?
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a language no one in the party has is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of language spells and suchlike before. Having the feature is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a locked door no one in the party has the key for is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of knock spells and suchlike before. Having the skill and expertise is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
you pointed out you think its bad, I never agreed with you. Its data that people can judge for themselves
If you feel you have nothing to say about something I post say nothing.
UA8 has not prohibited weapon swapping? what are you talking about?
You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath, picking it up, or retrieving it from a container. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it
every time you make an attack, as part of the attack action, you can equip or unequip one weapon.
Yes, ONE weapon, not A weapon. If you draw a weapon on one attack, you can not draw or stow another weapon on another attack, only the same weapon as you drew originally.
I've pointed out that Arcane Trickster beats Assassin on damage, even now, yet it's absent from these results. I suspect the reason is because those Arcane Trickster builds rely on things from outside of the PHB, but if that is the case, then it has to drop booming blade, which is still a good ~10% of the EK's damage is based around. After all booming blade is not a PHB spell, it's from SCAG.
there is no current UA version of hex, they recanted hex in playtest 7
Eldritch Blast and Hex revert to their 2014 versions.
Fair enough, I go back and forth through UAs a lot and miss things like that, There is 9 separate UAs now and I'll admit when I made a mistake.
It uses both Charger and Hex (both of these will constantly be needing the Bonus Action, Hex to reapply, Charger for Tactical Shift to avoid taking a lot of opportunity attacks).
charger does not use a BA in one dnd
Charger
Prerequisite:
You have trained to charge headlong into battle, gaining the following benefits:
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Improved Dash. When you take the Dash Action, your Speed increases by 10 feet for that Action.
Charge Attack. If you move at least 10 feet in a straight line immediately before hitting with an attack as part of the Attack Action on your turn, choose one of the following effects: gain a +1d8 bonus to the attack’s damage roll, or push the target up to 10 feet, provided the target you want to push is no more than one Size larger than you. You can use this benefit only once on each of your turns.
you re just wrong about these.
Read the part that is underlined, Tactical Shift, which you'll be needing to leave Opportunity Attack range DOES require BA, else you take more attacks which is just more ways to lose Hex. This also basically limits how often you could use Charger like this, Fighter is a front-liner so I really don't see them holding Hex up well, it'll just be wasting spell slots.
Every analysis will make assumptions, analysis doesnt mean you can always do X, it lets you know what the capabilities are. Just like most analysis of rogue assumes SA every round, is it always going to happen? probably not. But assumptions are made to give people some points of comparison.
There is realistic assumptions and unrealistic assumptions, that a Fighter can keep Hex up every round of combat is not a realistic one. Fighter will have at most +3 CON, more like +2 CON for most of the early game, this means a CON save of +4 from 1-4, +5 from 2-8 & +6 from 9 -11. After getting the +5 modifier, could spec for it at level 12, if you spec earlier then you're hurting your damage output else where. This makes Hex pretty hard to use until about level 12 when you could take something to decrease losing concentration saves like take war caster feat or other wise increase CON.
shortbow is the farthest range rogue has access to and is 80 range, Fighter or Barb can move 45-60 feet turn one and throw weapons up to 30 feet. Enemies are generally not going to be 100+ feet from the players. EK also has access to spells, like the new true strike, if they go the INT route.
First off, 80 foot range is still further than Fighter or Barb can move where if you were familiar with the EK build in question, you'd know it requires melee attacks since it relies on booming blade. The rogue can still move 30 foot before firing, meaning a target 100 foot in range now comes into range, a range at which your fighter and barbarian are going to struggle to do literally anything against. 2nd, a single feat increases that 80 foot range to 320 foot, 3rd off you can just use steady aim to remove the disadvantage at above 80 foot, so you can get the vex effect ready for the next turn with advantage. This is the typical kind of mistake you make, you only look at the numbers and do not consider how these things play out in the game
Getting 320 foot for Rogue from sharpshooter can be very good, then picking up weapon training so you can use a heavy crossbow for 1d10 at a range of 400 foot, or longbow for 1d8 at 600 foot, being able to steady aim and sneak attack on them, yes most dungeon battles won't be hitting 100 foot, but outside battles very well can hit over 100 foot, and the same feet that gives that range also removes the benefits of half and three-quarters cover, which is the real benefit since now you can shoot past your own allies easier.
Next off, how is the fighter getting 45 foot? Hasn't your argument been that fighter now has tactical mind, so they've been using that which would have consumed most of their second wind charges on failed stealth and perception checks to make them successes, that or you have to admit that in fact fighter does need to be reserving these second wind charges for something more important.
fighter is perfectly capable of building for dex, or for dex and strength if they choose. once again most will choose to have dex 14 at level 1.
fighters are an adaptive class, they don't have to be slow if they don't want to be. It doesnt effect their damage.
Also I disagree with idea that rogues will get 1-2 extra rounds per day. When a fight ends is based not only on initiative, but also dpr/hp. and rogue having possibly 3 more dex is not going to lead to one extra round given 6-8 combats. +3 initiative doesnt change a low roll, to a high roll. and low rolls are what cause you to possibly lose a round. Barbarian's advantage is more of a mitigator of poor rolls.
Fighter can go DEX based but that EK build does not work with a DEX build, it relies on a push weapon, as push weapons are all two-handed, heavy or versatile, it would not work. Fundamentally a DEX based fighter has lower DPR and AC than a STR build, so they pay for the versatility to use a bow or to have that higher initiative, it is not a free trade.
As far as having 14 dexterity goes, if Fighter has 14 DEX, as a STR build, then they have basically nothing in Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma, since you want your Strength and Constitution. If you're using standard array, you'd like be pushing 15+2, 14, 13+1, 10, 12, 8 (switch Int/cha as desired). This character has a +0 to Int, a +1 to wisdom and a -1 to charisma. Which goes back to early points, this character would need to expend a resource to do worse at charisma checks then a bard, sorcerer, paladin or warlock or worse than a Wizard or Artificer, the one exception to this maybe if you're an Eldritch Knight, as you may just drop DEX to get an okay INT score, more likely you just focus on spells that don't actually need INT tho. And this is worse at level 4, it only gets worse from there as these classes get higher ability scores and proficiency bonuses and second wind has a very limited number of charges.
Barbarian is basically in the same boat but rage charges are even more important to a Barbarian, so just wasting them at any point of the day, is pointless.
Rogue on the other hand, you need Dexterity, you're not as Constitution dependent as either Barbarian or Fighter, so you can take more points into Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma, a build like 8, 15+2, 13+1, 10, 14, 12 is not a bad one, with this you get a +2 on Wisdom, with Expertise in perception, you have a +6 at level 1, which is already better than what fighter will get from Tactical Mind, at level 5 you'd have a +8 and at level 7 the lowest you could get is an 18, at level 19 the lowest would be a 20 in perception... Neither the fighter or the Barbarian can touch this, Barbarian while raging can potentially get close but Perception can happen at any point of the day or exploration.
Then after all of this, as Barbarian and Fighter still need to focus on constitution, you can pump up your intelligence, wisdom or charisma, using feats like Observant, potentially getting another expertise and the ability to bonus action search with a +1 to INT or WIS. You can also take Inspiring Leader and take a +1 in Wisdom or Charisma, you now get even more feel good feeling as you give 2d4+PB temporary HP to your party and your role in the party is not diminished as you still have enough HP/AC/Dex save to not be taking significant amounts of damage, as you're not the tank.
Also I disagree with idea that rogues will get 1-2 extra rounds per day. When a fight ends is based not only on initiative, but also dpr/hp. and rogue having possibly 3 more dex is not going to lead to one extra round given 6-8 combats. +3 initiative doesnt change a low roll, to a high roll. and low rolls are what cause you to possibly lose a round. Barbarian's advantage is more of a mitigator of poor rolls.
I never said Barbarians are beaten, I specifically said Fighter and yes the Rogue will get more rounds. You roll a D20 but the average initiative that a Rogue gets is 3 higher than the fighter, this is very simple maths and I don't know why you're trying to fight against something so simple. The fighter could get a higher initiative but the rogue can get an initiative so high the fighter can't beat it and the fighter can get an initiative so low that the rogue can not fail but to beat it. Further to this there are other characters in the party that are going to compete more around fighter's level of initiative than rogue's.
With Rogue having +1 initiative bonus, Rogue would go first 52.5% of the time, fighter 42.75% and remaining 4.25% is a draw.
+2 rogue goes first 57.5% of the time, fighter 38.25%
+3 rogue goes first 61.75% of the time, fighter, 34%
If I have done my maths right, Rogue is going first almost twice as often at a +3, (difference of 27.75%). That is quite a significant difference and means Rogue will in fact go first many more times over a campaign, during a day, they are likely going before the fighter twice more (5 vs 3), if there is eight encounters. So yea, Rogue is clearly going to get more rounds of combat than fighter.
just because you disagree with one facet of data, or choice by someone running numbers, does not negate every facet of the data. Have you done an analysis of EK damage? Have you done an analysis of 2014BM expected DPR?
you think your lack of Analysis is better than a detailed analysis complete with what they did and why they did it, just because you don't like the builds they chose to do?
the point of the post was 2014 BM damage is not the benchmark any more. multiple classes can surpass it, and BM isnt the top fighter build any more. Even if you ignore EK completely, the one dnd martials can surpass 2014 BM. The point still stands.
Why is the 2014 Battlemaster DPR relevant when it got nerfed via feats? This discussion relates to where Rogue is in the UA, we know Battlemaster was overpowered in 5E, this was not a rogue issue it was a Battlemaster/fighter issue of that particular subclass being too powerful. Personally think the charger feat should disallow walking away from the enemy first, but we will see if they fix that in final release.
I also do not fully know if what they do with Quarterstaff really is permitted, Dual Wielder says you can treat the "other weapon" as if it had the light property, they are using that to give it either the vex or nick property (I believe the vex) but is that actually allowed with Master of Armaments to do this. Dual Wielder does not say the other weapon HAS the light property and so I do not believe it is the case*. So you're asking to make an anaylsis on something based on so many grey areas, it's kinda crazy and it's an area that WotC need to be reviewing all these synergies to really rule on if they work or not but this is again going back to issues with the design of fighter and not issues with rogue, other classes are also negatively affected when there is that one OP build and it's quite possible that it'll be something commonly banned like the Eloquance Bard is, for example but hopefully WotC don't leave it to get to that point.
*additionally to the case, Master of Armaments does not work off of weapons, it works off the weapon type as it uses the phrasing, "kind of weapon." Meaning it definitely does not work, but this is fundamentally to show how grey areas work. Ultimately you don't get to add "light" to the quarterstaff type, thus the build does not work at all.
I have not said the attempt at making an analysis is a bad thing, I've just said they have made mistakes, which on such a large amount of work, is going to happen and I think what they did is good but you can't take it as factual, it is based on quiet a few assumptions of which a lot do not occur in gameplay and it's only basing these figures off of ideal situations, which with the assassin build is a lot easier to maintain than the eldritch knight one, and I mean A LOT easier. Overall, me not wasting literal days to put together an alternative sheet with assumptions altered or the maths for Arcane Trickster doesn't change the fact the spreadsheet EK build is still based on big assumptions and weird tactics that just don't work in the actual game or assume one vs one only nor that the gap would be smaller in EK vs arcane trickster than EK vs assassin.
A lot of classes are doing more damage in OneD&D, Battlemaster might have come down now, but in general most have gone up, with the inclusion of weapon masteries and other buffs. Mostly the nerfs that have come in are for Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master. But again, it returns to what is the issue, is the issue the Rogue class or is the issue the few broken builds that people have been finding? The issue is not the rogue class and rogue is not in an awkward place.
Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
yall dudes are so manipulative, you believe there is no reason to talk to or understand a person unless you can manipulate them?
How about... gaining information?
I guess different games, but persuade is used to gain information from people in our games. You just met rando5789! sure they can talk with you but there is no motivation for rando5789! to give you any information. If you want to know how their day is, what's a good place to eat in town sure. they will part with that. But campaign important info unless the NPC is designed to want to give out that information its up to the players to convince them to, aka persuasion.
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I think you are leaving out that more proficiencies is also a part of being a rogue. So a limited resource use boost isn’t equal to an always on proficiency and simply isn’t equal to to expertise at all. Also the best use use of of second wind is probably tactical shift, which rogues also can do all the time without a resource.
Adding a dice roll to a check is always less dependable than adding a flat bonus. Also if this topic statement was an argument to improve rogue’s skill checks that would make sense, but this is an awkward topic that tried to say because someone else can succeed skill checks sometimes rogues need more damage. It probably should have separated those topics.
Sentinel doesn't stop you from hiding in combat, nor is it a taunt. It rewards you for being in melee by keeping enemies from being able to disengage from you safely, as well as if they attack someone else. If you're able to hide from the enemy they will be forced to attack someone else and therefore trigger it.
I did request in the last survey that they get hand crossbows back, but ultimately they don't need them.
I find that extremely unlikely as Battlemaster hasn't had any buff to its dpr yet it's major source of DPR buff - Precise Attack + SS is nerfed. All archers for certain have been massively nerfed, in 5e archers had the highest DPR of all builds in UA8 they are barely above sword & board.
this is incorrect, optimized damage is about the same in onednd maybe slightly less, but the claim I made was that the average damage of classes went up. Basically optimized is about the same, and floor is raised.
rogue has not changed noticeably.
Sentinel requires you to be within 5 feet of the target, and an ally, this will dramatically reduce your ability to hide in combat. its unlikely you will have full cover close enough to get into position, its also means since you ended your turn next to someone, you will probably take damage if you try to move to hide. Realistically, you are dramatically reducing your cunning action options and use cases.
Sentinel encourages monsters to attack you, any semi intelligent monster will focus you after they realize you will hit them if they target another creature. They take damage if they attack a different creature, take no damage if they attack you. You are now the priority. Sentinel is a taunt. It is designed to make you a high value target and keep people in melee range of you.
also, if you use your reaction to hit something, you become visible. This means any multiattack melee (most of them past level 4) will have no problem targeting you after you react. Every creature between them and you in initiative will see you. And hide doesnt really stop them from targeting you, just makes it harder to do so.
battlemaster isnt the highest dps fighter any more. I believe EK is. Also fighter isnt always the highest DPS any more, berserk barb wins depending on the analysis assumptions. Just because the top builds have changed, doesnt mean there aren't high damage builds.
But, new BM still competes due to other factors like, feats all being half feats now, addition of charger, origin free feats, weapon masteries. new relentless, studied attacks, etc.
essentially Old classes can spike early due to variant human and GWM being front loaded before, (broken) but by 7-9 they are generally washed up.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1swPiGeFYu6kSXr5vlPXqYYHJQ7JpFfZH/edit#gid=1686024488
Losing Astral Projection wasn’t that bad to me, but it was thematic imo. But being able to talk to anyone no matter your charisma isn’t a big deal. Unless you are trying to persuade, intimidate, or Deceive and making a CHA check. Asking an NPC that was being held captive by the BBEG, that you are freeing, for intel doesn’t seem like a big ask without a check. You can be as uncharismatic as possible but I’m sure a captive will welcome your help.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
How am I leaving that out?
Where did I leave that out?
What are you talking about?
But monks have always had that good movement so it was nothing gained compared to the other classes.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
In the very niche scenario where said captive doesn't share a language with anyone in the party, including Common, your group probably will have access to a non-monk solution to this "problem" by the time you're 13th level.
I have already pointed out why the numbers in this are bad, can you stop using it when it's known to be bad. I stopped commenting here because you just run in a circle every time somebody points out the flaw in your argument. You're only able to repeat what you said and add no logical reasoning to anything, people have already told you things like Rogue vs. a Melee only fighter build, is going to do damage when fighter isn't in melee range or that Rogue will over an adventuring day, generally get 1 or 2 more rounds of combat due to their higher initatives. These are facts that you don't supply an real rebuttal too.
But to re-iterate, it bases numbers off of assuming that Eldritch Knight can get advantage every round from find familiar (unlikely under UA version), it relies on weapon swapping that UA8 updated the attack action to prohibit, it assumes booming blade is always able to go off, it also uses the old version of Hex, not the UA version of Hex, can not account for failed concentration throws. It uses both Charger and Hex (both of these will constantly be needing the Bonus Action, Hex to reapply, Charger for Tactical Shift to avoid taking a lot of opportunity attacks). Basically, the numbers there for EK are theoretical only and theoretically, they aren't possible.
You're leaving out that the average +5.5 adds very little value to most +0 skills, for example if the fighter has a -1 in Deception while a Bard, a Sorcerer or a Warlock, are likely to start with a +5, get a +6 at level 4 and a +7 at level 5. Even a Paladin would likely have a +2 or a +3 in Deception without spending any resource at all, not even a skill. For a DC 10 Deception check at level 4, the fighter needs an 11 to make it, the Paladin needs a 7 or 8, the bard, sorcerer and warlock need a 4.
With tactical mind, the Fighter has a 50% chance of making the DC. On the 50% chance they fail, tactical mind then makes it 55% of the time (or adds an overall 27.5%, I.E. +5.5). So in total fighter could make it up to 77.5% of the time.
The Paladin has a 65% chance of making the DC
The Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock have a 80% chance of making the DC, that is beating what the fighter gets (by 2.5%) but a fighter has to sacrifice a resource 27.5% of the time they make the DC check to get that. So are you going to get the Bard, the Paladin, The sorcerer or Warlock to be the party face? Or the fighter who is less capable and burns resources to do it? Since deception normally appears in social interactions, the fighter is usually going to be a secondary or tertiary party member in that.
Now if the DC were 20 instead of 10, the fighter would need a 21 to make the DC, this means the minimum they fail from dice roll alone, tactical mind needs them to get at least an 11, so they straight up fail 50% of the time, the average of the remaining 50% is 55%, so at a resource cost when you make it, you can make it 27.5% of the time. The bard, sorcerer and warlock make it on a 14, so they make it 35% of the time from just proficiency and charisma. At level 9, they would likely have a +9 to deception, they only need an 11 to hit a DC20, which means they make it 50% of the time, meanwhile the fighter is still at 27.5%. Tactical Mind gets worse as DCs get higher, where proficiency bonus and ASI will scale, expertise will also scale. Tactical mind gets no better with level where Rogue's skills do and rogue then gets reliable talent on those that it has.
Basically tactical mind is not doing so well come Tier 2 gameplay and is barely hanging on by Tier 3, This is then compounded by the fact that Tactical Mind is competing for the same resource as Second Wind and Tactical Shift, Tactical Shift when it comes up (level 5), will be a better use then Tactical Mind, it's literally extra movement and the ability to avoid opportunity attacks. If you want to say use the Charger feat then Tactical Shift is a requirement to avoid taking extra unnecessary hits.
And then remembering how many ability checks a rogue makes in a dungeon... if there is 8 doors, that is probably 8 to 16 ability checks, for traps on each door and potentially for lock picking the door, may even do perception checks at the door getting that up as high as 24 and then there are other checks, like the stealth checks out of combat for scouting 10-20 foot in front of the party, peering around corners and such, there are other perception checks. Rogue could easily be hitting a good 30-50 ability checks on a good adventuring day, the fighter would have exhausted all their second wind charges by around the 10th ability check, and needs to short rest before potentially even seeing the first round of any combat....
Obviously the number of ability checks will vary from dungeon to dungeon, a disused prison will have a lot more than a simple cave with just a bear at the end of it, not so many but when it counts... the bigger dungeons with more checks, the fighter ain't going to keep up to a rogue.
I agree languages in general are niche, but honestly a resourceless "you can understand and make yourself understood by all languages" option doesn't seem particularly common. On the spellcasting side you're looking at Tongues which isn't a ritual, so someone needs to spend a known/prep slot on it as well as the slot to cast it. I'm only seeing a few other subclass features that allow communication to jump a language barrier, and some of them are one-way like the telepathy a Goolock gets, and only another few magic items, and the ones I found require attunement and don't have much else to recommend them. So really the idea that a party will reliably have alternatives for language issues seems a bit unlikely talking about parties in general. Granted, that also makes the DM playing the "this NPC speaks a language no one knows" card a poor move unless it's a deliberate plot point, so I agree the concept is still largely a non-issue.
By level 13 the style of the game should be well enough established that the players either know they don't need to worry, or have already solved the problem. It might not be resource-free, but on the other hand, who would you rather have talk to the NPC: the bard with a +15 persuasion (using Tongues) or the monk with a -1?
you pointed out you think its bad, I never agreed with you. Its data that people can judge for themselves
If you feel you have nothing to say about something I post say nothing.
UA8 has not prohibited weapon swapping? what are you talking about?
every time you make an attack, as part of the attack action, you can equip or unequip one weapon.
there is no current UA version of hex, they recanted hex in playtest 7
charger does not use a BA in one dnd
you re just wrong about these.
if you are having trouble keeping track of all the current UA stuff use this.
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/H8iRpbGyNtM4
its a collation of all the UA rules following crawfords guidance on how to use the UA's together.
charger only requires you to move 10feet before attacking. That doesnt necessarily require you to leave a threatened area. You also have push mastery which moves an enemy 10 feet on hit. And you can risk AoO or not if you want. its only a d8 per round.
you only need to apply hex some times. (new monster)
Every analysis will make assumptions, analysis doesnt mean you can always do X, it lets you know what the capabilities are. Just like most analysis of rogue assumes SA every round, is it always going to happen? probably not. But assumptions are made to give people some points of comparison.
Fighter and Barbarian can both increase their initial movement via tactical shift, and rage, monk, I don't think I have to describe how they can reach enemies. they also all have natural access to thrown weapons, and reach.
shortbow is the farthest range rogue has access to and is 80 range, Fighter or Barb can move 45-60 feet turn one and throw weapons up to 30 feet. Enemies are generally not going to be 100+ feet from the players. EK also has access to spells, like the new true strike, if they go the INT route.
Barbarian gets advantage on initiative. and will generally have at least dex 14,
fighter is perfectly capable of building for dex, or for dex and strength if they choose. once again most will choose to have dex 14 at level 1.
fighters are an adaptive class, they don't have to be slow if they don't want to be. It doesnt effect their damage.
Also I disagree with idea that rogues will get 1-2 extra rounds per day. When a fight ends is based not only on initiative, but also dpr/hp. and rogue having possibly 3 more dex is not going to lead to one extra round given 6-8 combats. +3 initiative doesnt change a low roll, to a high roll. and low rolls are what cause you to possibly lose a round. Barbarian's advantage is more of a mitigator of poor rolls.
just because you disagree with one facet of data, or choice by someone running numbers, does not negate every facet of the data. Have you done an analysis of EK damage? Have you done an analysis of 2014BM expected DPR?
you think your lack of Analysis is better than a detailed analysis complete with what they did and why they did it, just because you don't like the builds they chose to do?
the point of the post was 2014 BM damage is not the benchmark any more. multiple classes can surpass it, and BM isnt the top fighter build any more. Even if you ignore EK completely, the one dnd martials can surpass 2014 BM. The point still stands.
yall dudes are so manipulative, you believe there is no reason to talk to or understand a person unless you can manipulate them?
How about... gaining information?
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a language no one in the party has is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of language spells and suchlike before. Having the feature is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
the design of modules and information should generally he that the team is OK without it, it doesnt mean it has no value to the players, or has no hooks. I don't really believe that GMs should/must create or remove opportunities based on party make up. Many NPCs and modules are designed with no concept of what languages players will choose, or what capabilities the players will have.
You run into a deep gnome, if you speak deep gnome you might have an advantage, if you don't it never mattered for you guys story. Just like you may not notice the perception 20 secret door, Or pray at the lathander statue for 15 religion.
It shouldn't be necessary, but Most Ooc or rolls, should not be needed to move anything forward. There is never a guarantee players will make a roll, or engage with some specific aspect.
these things are there to enrich the experience, provide options, info, maybe items, or offer flavor or RP.
The point being that a DM arbitrarily deciding to gate important information behind a locked door no one in the party has the key for is bad form, particularly if they haven't encouraged the use of knock spells and suchlike before. Having the skill and expertise is nice, but if how well you perform in a campaign hinges on it or a similar feature being readied when the party has no reason to expect it, that's just poor setup imo.
Yes, ONE weapon, not A weapon. If you draw a weapon on one attack, you can not draw or stow another weapon on another attack, only the same weapon as you drew originally.
I've pointed out that Arcane Trickster beats Assassin on damage, even now, yet it's absent from these results. I suspect the reason is because those Arcane Trickster builds rely on things from outside of the PHB, but if that is the case, then it has to drop booming blade, which is still a good ~10% of the EK's damage is based around. After all booming blade is not a PHB spell, it's from SCAG.
Fair enough, I go back and forth through UAs a lot and miss things like that, There is 9 separate UAs now and I'll admit when I made a mistake.
Read the part that is underlined, Tactical Shift, which you'll be needing to leave Opportunity Attack range DOES require BA, else you take more attacks which is just more ways to lose Hex. This also basically limits how often you could use Charger like this, Fighter is a front-liner so I really don't see them holding Hex up well, it'll just be wasting spell slots.
There is realistic assumptions and unrealistic assumptions, that a Fighter can keep Hex up every round of combat is not a realistic one. Fighter will have at most +3 CON, more like +2 CON for most of the early game, this means a CON save of +4 from 1-4, +5 from 2-8 & +6 from 9 -11. After getting the +5 modifier, could spec for it at level 12, if you spec earlier then you're hurting your damage output else where. This makes Hex pretty hard to use until about level 12 when you could take something to decrease losing concentration saves like take war caster feat or other wise increase CON.
First off, 80 foot range is still further than Fighter or Barb can move where if you were familiar with the EK build in question, you'd know it requires melee attacks since it relies on booming blade. The rogue can still move 30 foot before firing, meaning a target 100 foot in range now comes into range, a range at which your fighter and barbarian are going to struggle to do literally anything against. 2nd, a single feat increases that 80 foot range to 320 foot, 3rd off you can just use steady aim to remove the disadvantage at above 80 foot, so you can get the vex effect ready for the next turn with advantage. This is the typical kind of mistake you make, you only look at the numbers and do not consider how these things play out in the game
Getting 320 foot for Rogue from sharpshooter can be very good, then picking up weapon training so you can use a heavy crossbow for 1d10 at a range of 400 foot, or longbow for 1d8 at 600 foot, being able to steady aim and sneak attack on them, yes most dungeon battles won't be hitting 100 foot, but outside battles very well can hit over 100 foot, and the same feet that gives that range also removes the benefits of half and three-quarters cover, which is the real benefit since now you can shoot past your own allies easier.
Next off, how is the fighter getting 45 foot? Hasn't your argument been that fighter now has tactical mind, so they've been using that which would have consumed most of their second wind charges on failed stealth and perception checks to make them successes, that or you have to admit that in fact fighter does need to be reserving these second wind charges for something more important.
Fighter can go DEX based but that EK build does not work with a DEX build, it relies on a push weapon, as push weapons are all two-handed, heavy or versatile, it would not work. Fundamentally a DEX based fighter has lower DPR and AC than a STR build, so they pay for the versatility to use a bow or to have that higher initiative, it is not a free trade.
As far as having 14 dexterity goes, if Fighter has 14 DEX, as a STR build, then they have basically nothing in Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma, since you want your Strength and Constitution. If you're using standard array, you'd like be pushing 15+2, 14, 13+1, 10, 12, 8 (switch Int/cha as desired). This character has a +0 to Int, a +1 to wisdom and a -1 to charisma. Which goes back to early points, this character would need to expend a resource to do worse at charisma checks then a bard, sorcerer, paladin or warlock or worse than a Wizard or Artificer, the one exception to this maybe if you're an Eldritch Knight, as you may just drop DEX to get an okay INT score, more likely you just focus on spells that don't actually need INT tho. And this is worse at level 4, it only gets worse from there as these classes get higher ability scores and proficiency bonuses and second wind has a very limited number of charges.
Barbarian is basically in the same boat but rage charges are even more important to a Barbarian, so just wasting them at any point of the day, is pointless.
Rogue on the other hand, you need Dexterity, you're not as Constitution dependent as either Barbarian or Fighter, so you can take more points into Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma, a build like 8, 15+2, 13+1, 10, 14, 12 is not a bad one, with this you get a +2 on Wisdom, with Expertise in perception, you have a +6 at level 1, which is already better than what fighter will get from Tactical Mind, at level 5 you'd have a +8 and at level 7 the lowest you could get is an 18, at level 19 the lowest would be a 20 in perception... Neither the fighter or the Barbarian can touch this, Barbarian while raging can potentially get close but Perception can happen at any point of the day or exploration.
Then after all of this, as Barbarian and Fighter still need to focus on constitution, you can pump up your intelligence, wisdom or charisma, using feats like Observant, potentially getting another expertise and the ability to bonus action search with a +1 to INT or WIS. You can also take Inspiring Leader and take a +1 in Wisdom or Charisma, you now get even more feel good feeling as you give 2d4+PB temporary HP to your party and your role in the party is not diminished as you still have enough HP/AC/Dex save to not be taking significant amounts of damage, as you're not the tank.
I never said Barbarians are beaten, I specifically said Fighter and yes the Rogue will get more rounds. You roll a D20 but the average initiative that a Rogue gets is 3 higher than the fighter, this is very simple maths and I don't know why you're trying to fight against something so simple. The fighter could get a higher initiative but the rogue can get an initiative so high the fighter can't beat it and the fighter can get an initiative so low that the rogue can not fail but to beat it. Further to this there are other characters in the party that are going to compete more around fighter's level of initiative than rogue's.
With Rogue having +1 initiative bonus, Rogue would go first 52.5% of the time, fighter 42.75% and remaining 4.25% is a draw.
+2 rogue goes first 57.5% of the time, fighter 38.25%
+3 rogue goes first 61.75% of the time, fighter, 34%
If I have done my maths right, Rogue is going first almost twice as often at a +3, (difference of 27.75%). That is quite a significant difference and means Rogue will in fact go first many more times over a campaign, during a day, they are likely going before the fighter twice more (5 vs 3), if there is eight encounters. So yea, Rogue is clearly going to get more rounds of combat than fighter.
Why is the 2014 Battlemaster DPR relevant when it got nerfed via feats? This discussion relates to where Rogue is in the UA, we know Battlemaster was overpowered in 5E, this was not a rogue issue it was a Battlemaster/fighter issue of that particular subclass being too powerful. Personally think the charger feat should disallow walking away from the enemy first, but we will see if they fix that in final release.
I also do not fully know if what they do with Quarterstaff really is permitted, Dual Wielder says you can treat the "other weapon" as if it had the light property, they are using that to give it either the vex or nick property (I believe the vex) but is that actually allowed with Master of Armaments to do this. Dual Wielder does not say the other weapon HAS the light property and so I do not believe it is the case*. So you're asking to make an anaylsis on something based on so many grey areas, it's kinda crazy and it's an area that WotC need to be reviewing all these synergies to really rule on if they work or not but this is again going back to issues with the design of fighter and not issues with rogue, other classes are also negatively affected when there is that one OP build and it's quite possible that it'll be something commonly banned like the Eloquance Bard is, for example but hopefully WotC don't leave it to get to that point.
*additionally to the case, Master of Armaments does not work off of weapons, it works off the weapon type as it uses the phrasing, "kind of weapon." Meaning it definitely does not work, but this is fundamentally to show how grey areas work. Ultimately you don't get to add "light" to the quarterstaff type, thus the build does not work at all.
I have not said the attempt at making an analysis is a bad thing, I've just said they have made mistakes, which on such a large amount of work, is going to happen and I think what they did is good but you can't take it as factual, it is based on quiet a few assumptions of which a lot do not occur in gameplay and it's only basing these figures off of ideal situations, which with the assassin build is a lot easier to maintain than the eldritch knight one, and I mean A LOT easier. Overall, me not wasting literal days to put together an alternative sheet with assumptions altered or the maths for Arcane Trickster doesn't change the fact the spreadsheet EK build is still based on big assumptions and weird tactics that just don't work in the actual game or assume one vs one only nor that the gap would be smaller in EK vs arcane trickster than EK vs assassin.
A lot of classes are doing more damage in OneD&D, Battlemaster might have come down now, but in general most have gone up, with the inclusion of weapon masteries and other buffs. Mostly the nerfs that have come in are for Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master. But again, it returns to what is the issue, is the issue the Rogue class or is the issue the few broken builds that people have been finding? The issue is not the rogue class and rogue is not in an awkward place.
I guess different games, but persuade is used to gain information from people in our games. You just met rando5789! sure they can talk with you but there is no motivation for rando5789! to give you any information. If you want to know how their day is, what's a good place to eat in town sure. they will part with that. But campaign important info unless the NPC is designed to want to give out that information its up to the players to convince them to, aka persuasion.