As the title states I want to know if I can use Primal savagery as my main form of damage. Looking at the spell I can't think of too many things that would work with it to improve it. I would think a tortle circle of spores druid might do well with it but I believe shillelagh beats it out with Symbiotic Entity. Is there some other circle that can do some work with it? I know a nature cleric can also use it but I don't think they can give anything to help it out (correct me if im wrong). I really like the idea of the spell and I want to try and make it a decent option. I would appreciate any feedback and advice on the matter
It’s certainly not bad. Generally, of course, Shillelagh is “better,” but Primal Savagery is far from terrible. Unless your table really likes optimizing everything, just go for it!
Keep in mind that Primal Savagery deals poison damage, and there are creatures that are immune to poison. You will have other spells as backup, but just keep that in mind.
It’s certainly not bad. Generally, of course, Shillelagh is “better,” but Primal Savagery is far from terrible. Unless your table really likes optimizing everything, just go for it!
I don't understand this. How is 1d8 + 1d6 maximum using Shillelagh + Symbiotic Entity, somehow better than 4d10 max from Primal Savagery? I mean, sure, Shill+SE is going to be better at first, until 5th level. From there the 2d10 (average 11) of Primal Savagery is better than the 1d8 + 1d6 (average 7) of Shill+SE, and keeps improving from there.
Am I missing something?
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As the title states I want to know if I can use Primal savagery as my main form of damage. Looking at the spell I can't think of too many things that would work with it to improve it. I would think a tortle circle of spores druid might do well with it but I believe shillelagh beats it out with Symbiotic Entity. Is there some other circle that can do some work with it? I know a nature cleric can also use it but I don't think they can give anything to help it out (correct me if im wrong). I really like the idea of the spell and I want to try and make it a decent option. I would appreciate any feedback and advice on the matter
Well, it's a melee spell attack, so anything that will buff a melee spell attack will help. We don't have a damage feat for acid like we do for piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, and poison - we do have elemental adept as a generic damage feat, which is incredibly bad. It would work, just not well. War Caster certainly works with it. Really, though, Thorn Whip is a better spell.
Things that will buff a melee spell attack from a cantrip:
Nature Cleric, L8: Use Tasha's to replace Divine Strike with Blessed Strikes; 1 of your PS attacks per turn you take (doesn't have to be during your turn) deals +1d8 radiant.
Homebrew option: giving Nature clerics Potent Spellcasting would give you +WIS to all PS attacks you make. Nature clerics are underpowered, so there should be no real balance concerns here.
Valor Bard, L14: Action PS, bonus action weapon attack.
Homebrew option: if you give the Druidic Warrior fighting style to Eldritch Knights (feasible now that Tasha's lets you change styles after picking a subclass), you can do the same thing at L7.
I don't see any benefit to giving it to Ancients Paladins. Divine Smite won't work with a non-weapon attack.
Spirits Bard, L6: No-one knows what it means to "cast a spell through a focus". If Spirits Bards can cast spells with no M component through a focus, +1d6 acid damage to all PSes you cast.
Ranger (Favored Foe) or Hex (Hunter's Mark does not work): bonus acid damage or bonus necrotic damage, respectively. You can get Hex from Fey Touched or being a Warlock (all Tomelocks can know Primal Savagery, although PS is worse than EB in almost all cases).
Ranger: Swarmkeeper abilities work with spell attacks, not just weapon attacks.
Many Warlock subclasses, like Fiend and Genie, have abilities that work perfectly fine with cantrip-murder; the struggle here is how much worse PS is than EB.
Homebrew option: if you make a Divine Soul variant with the Druid spell list instead of the Cleric one, the cantrip can be metamagicked.
Pretty much all of these options have access to Absorb Elements, which works with melee spell attacks.
Keep in mind that Primal Savagery deals poison damage, and there are creatures that are immune to poison. You will have other spells as backup, but just keep that in mind.
It’s certainly not bad. Generally, of course, Shillelagh is “better,” but Primal Savagery is far from terrible. Unless your table really likes optimizing everything, just go for it!
I don't understand this. How is 1d8 + 1d6 maximum using Shillelagh + Symbiotic Entity, somehow better than 4d10 max from Primal Savagery? I mean, sure, Shill+SE is going to be better at first, until 5th level. From there the 2d10 (average 11) of Primal Savagery is better than the 1d8 + 1d6 (average 7) of Shill+SE, and keeps improving from there.
Am I missing something?
Shill+SE's damage includes Wisdom modifier and uses the stick in question, meaning it stacks with a magic stick. You're also ignoring Wisdom modifier. Shill+SE's damage will usually be 13 at level 3, 14 at level 4, and 15 at level 8. That's better than PS until level 11 (16.5), by which point many Druids will be carrying a magic weapon - e.g. a +1 quarterstaff. Also, magic bludgeoning damage is radically superior as a damage type to magic acid damage. Finally, Shillelagh lets you incorporate things into the build that work with weapon attacks, which are far more abundant - for example, every Shillelagh build I've ever seen picks up Booming Blade. You can't combine Booming Blade with Primal Savagery.
But as I said in my post, in terms of Druids in general and Spore Druids in particular, Thorn Whip is a much better spell than Primal Savagery. There are all manner of uses for a clever Druid with access to forced movement.
Thanks for all the replies, I should have said but I'm a level three tortle and I have a +5 Wis. I really like PS but my DM likes to throw hard encounters at us so I was questioning if it was good at all compared to shillelagh. With my Wis score I didn't really think that it would beat out shillelagh but it was worth a shot. Besides homebrewing potent spellcasting into a domain that doesn't normally get it for a cleric I don't think it will be able to stand against shillelagh.
Thanks for all the replies, I should have said but I'm a level three tortle and I have a +5 Wis. I really like PS but my DM likes to throw hard encounters at us so I was questioning if it was good at all compared to shillelagh. With my Wis score I didn't really think that it would beat out shillelagh but it was worth a shot. Besides homebrewing potent spellcasting into a domain that doesn't normally get it for a cleric I don't think it will be able to stand against shillelagh.
It would? How? I know create bonfire isnt bad but I assumed its only useful if you have a way of keeping people in it.
Your save DC is simply very good. Even if you don't have good Strength and don't know Thorn Whip, you can do things like waddle up to the enemy and drop a Bonfire where you don't want them to go, and then they have to stay near you and take spore damage, leave and take bonfire damage, or leave in a direction you approve of. Or, if you really want them gone, you can waddle up, drop a Bonfire on them, and chill. CB has all manner of use.
I never though about that. I plan on using shillelagh and being in melee, would CB still be good in that situation? I have an ac of 19 and my Con is +4. Would it be worth giving up shillelagh to use thorn whip with CB to try and keep them in that area?
Now that I think about it, should I try to move around my stats and get more strength to be able to grapple and hold someone in the CB? At higher levels that damage could start to stack up quick, level 5 that could be 4d8 damage for a cantrip and you can still use your action for something else. Like maybe Primal savagery during the grapple? Im pretty sure you can do that during a grapple.
Thanks for all the replies, I should have said but I'm a level three tortle and I have a +5 Wis. I really like PS but my DM likes to throw hard encounters at us so I was questioning if it was good at all compared to shillelagh. With my Wis score I didn't really think that it would beat out shillelagh but it was worth a shot. Besides homebrewing potent spellcasting into a domain that doesn't normally get it for a cleric I don't think it will be able to stand against shillelagh.
Encounters are a lot harder when you use cantrips every round. Make sure you're using your leveled spells at appropriate times. A well-placed Spike Growth or Fog Cloud can trivialize some fights.
I never though about that. I plan on using shillelagh and being in melee, would CB still be good in that situation? I have an ac of 19 and my Con is +4. Would it be worth giving up shillelagh to use thorn whip with CB to try and keep them in that area?
What the hell is your statline? Did you just roll a bunch of 18s?
As the title states I want to know if I can use Primal savagery as my main form of damage. Looking at the spell I can't think of too many things that would work with it to improve it. I would think a tortle circle of spores druid might do well with it but I believe shillelagh beats it out with Symbiotic Entity. Is there some other circle that can do some work with it? I know a nature cleric can also use it but I don't think they can give anything to help it out (correct me if im wrong). I really like the idea of the spell and I want to try and make it a decent option. I would appreciate any feedback and advice on the matter
It’s certainly not bad. Generally, of course, Shillelagh is “better,” but Primal Savagery is far from terrible. Unless your table really likes optimizing everything, just go for it!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
It deals ACID damage. Not poison.
I don't understand this. How is 1d8 + 1d6 maximum using Shillelagh + Symbiotic Entity, somehow better than 4d10 max from Primal Savagery? I mean, sure, Shill+SE is going to be better at first, until 5th level. From there the 2d10 (average 11) of Primal Savagery is better than the 1d8 + 1d6 (average 7) of Shill+SE, and keeps improving from there.
Am I missing something?
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Well, it's a melee spell attack, so anything that will buff a melee spell attack will help. We don't have a damage feat for acid like we do for piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, and poison - we do have elemental adept as a generic damage feat, which is incredibly bad. It would work, just not well. War Caster certainly works with it. Really, though, Thorn Whip is a better spell.
Things that will buff a melee spell attack from a cantrip:
Pretty much all of these options have access to Absorb Elements, which works with melee spell attacks.
Shill+SE's damage includes Wisdom modifier and uses the stick in question, meaning it stacks with a magic stick. You're also ignoring Wisdom modifier. Shill+SE's damage will usually be 13 at level 3, 14 at level 4, and 15 at level 8. That's better than PS until level 11 (16.5), by which point many Druids will be carrying a magic weapon - e.g. a +1 quarterstaff. Also, magic bludgeoning damage is radically superior as a damage type to magic acid damage. Finally, Shillelagh lets you incorporate things into the build that work with weapon attacks, which are far more abundant - for example, every Shillelagh build I've ever seen picks up Booming Blade. You can't combine Booming Blade with Primal Savagery.
But as I said in my post, in terms of Druids in general and Spore Druids in particular, Thorn Whip is a much better spell than Primal Savagery. There are all manner of uses for a clever Druid with access to forced movement.
Thanks for all the replies, I should have said but I'm a level three tortle and I have a +5 Wis. I really like PS but my DM likes to throw hard encounters at us so I was questioning if it was good at all compared to shillelagh. With my Wis score I didn't really think that it would beat out shillelagh but it was worth a shot. Besides homebrewing potent spellcasting into a domain that doesn't normally get it for a cleric I don't think it will be able to stand against shillelagh.
Hot damn. Create Bonfire would be fantastic on you.
It would? How? I know create bonfire isnt bad but I assumed its only useful if you have a way of keeping people in it.
Your save DC is simply very good. Even if you don't have good Strength and don't know Thorn Whip, you can do things like waddle up to the enemy and drop a Bonfire where you don't want them to go, and then they have to stay near you and take spore damage, leave and take bonfire damage, or leave in a direction you approve of. Or, if you really want them gone, you can waddle up, drop a Bonfire on them, and chill. CB has all manner of use.
I never though about that. I plan on using shillelagh and being in melee, would CB still be good in that situation? I have an ac of 19 and my Con is +4. Would it be worth giving up shillelagh to use thorn whip with CB to try and keep them in that area?
Now that I think about it, should I try to move around my stats and get more strength to be able to grapple and hold someone in the CB? At higher levels that damage could start to stack up quick, level 5 that could be 4d8 damage for a cantrip and you can still use your action for something else. Like maybe Primal savagery during the grapple? Im pretty sure you can do that during a grapple.
Encounters are a lot harder when you use cantrips every round. Make sure you're using your leveled spells at appropriate times. A well-placed Spike Growth or Fog Cloud can trivialize some fights.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
What the hell is your statline? Did you just roll a bunch of 18s?
No my race is tortle and I got pretty good rolls and was allowed to use customize your origin so thats why im set like that
My stats are 12, 15, 17, 18, 10 and 12