My character is built off what I thought would be an interesting character concept rather than optimal power. I also didn't get the best rolls when generating his stats. However, now that I have the basic concept and character in place, I'd like to start building him better, so he doesn't fall too far behind the rest of the party.
Level 2 Half-Orc monk
stats:
str: 8
dex: 14
con: 15
int: 12
wis: 14
Cha: 5
I was thinking of taking a couple of ranger levels to pair my flurry of blows with Hunter's mark. And ranger very much fits with the character's personality background I think. The problem is, I'd be delaying my stat increase, and I very much need to pump more points into dex. What are your thoughts? How could I improve this character's combat ability?
There is some debate about whether unarmed strikes count as "weapon" attacks which are required for the extra damage granted by hunter's mark and for many of the other available Ranger spells at 1st level. Taking two levels of ranger delays your first ASI until level 6 (assuming you take no additional levels in it after level 2). I really would prioritize an ASI to get your Dex mod up another point as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, your current stats are not well suited for a lot of multiclassing, but might I recommend Druid? two levels there grants you wildshape, your spells would use the same Modifier as Ranger, and you would get your subclass circle with 2 levels (Rangers subclass kicks in at level 3). Moon Druid might be a potent subclass, as you get an enhanced wildshape (up to CR 1), use of spell slots for healing while wildshaped, and you can wild shape as a bonus action. Thematically, Ranger and Druid have a lot of similarities so you could feasibly justify the same reasons for Druid as you were planning to do for Ranger.
There is some debate about whether unarmed strikes count as "weapon" attacks....
Not so, and Unarmed Strike most definitively counts as a “melee weapon attack,” but it does not count as “an attack with a melee weapon.” Hunter’s Mark most definitely applies to Unarmed Strikes.
Taking your Monk Subclass will do more for you than a dip at this level, and Monks need their ASIs like junkies need their fix.
Two levels of Ranger is a pretty fantastic dip for a Monk, but you would likely want to wait until after 4th level. Druid makes a good dip too, the subclasses in Tasha’s specifically have some features that scale off of Proficiency bonus, so those would still improve even if you don’t continue to take levels in those classes.
There is some debate about whether unarmed strikes count as "weapon" attacks....
Not so, and Unarmed Strike most definitively counts as a “melee weapon attack,” but it does not count as “an attack with a melee weapon.” Hunter’s Mark most definitely applies to Unarmed Strikes.
That was it...sorry for the confusion (and incorrect info).
There is some debate about whether unarmed strikes count as "weapon" attacks....
Not so, and Unarmed Strike most definitively counts as a “melee weapon attack,” but it does not count as “an attack with a melee weapon.” Hunter’s Mark most definitely applies to Unarmed Strikes.
That was it...sorry for the confusion (and incorrect info).
It’s not your fault that it’s confusing, you didn’t write the book that way, Crawford did.
Here's my suggestion to get access to Hunter's Mark without needing to multiclass into Ranger...
Shift your 15 in CON to a 15 in WIS. Take the new Tasha's Feat, "Fey Touched". This feat lets you put a +1 in WIS, bringing that up to a 16. Monks use WIS to determine their AC, so that brings you up to a 15AC. The feat also gives you a once-a-day cast of Misty Step, which is a great utility spell that pairs well with a Monk's focus on mobility. The feat also gives you a once-a-day first level spell of your choice, as long as it's divination or enchantment... and luckily, Hunter's Mark is Divination.
You'll still have a delay on improving your DEX, but this won't slow you down on your progress through the Monk class, and the WIS boost gives you a nice bonus to optimize your class choice.
Don’t forget, with Tasha’s out even a 1 level dip into Ranger will also get you access to Favored Foe. It’s not Hunter’s Mark, but with it you might not need Hunter’s Mark, something like Zephyr’s Strike might be more appealing.
Here's my suggestion to get access to Hunter's Mark without needing to multiclass into Ranger...
Shift your 15 in CON to a 15 in WIS. Take the new Tasha's Feat, "Fey Touched".
That's a great idea, but it'd kinda feel like cheating to me because the stat I rolled was 14 it only became 15 with the half-orc's con bonus. Still great idea, I might implement later on thanks!
Don’t forget, with Tasha’s out even a 1 level dip into Ranger will also get you access to Favored Foe. It’s not Hunter’s Mark, but with it you might not need Hunter’s Mark, something like Zephyr’s Strike might be more appealing.
Another fantastic idea, but unfortunately my DM is not at all fond of the variant class options from Tasha's. Still some a lot of helpful info here so far. Thanks!
Don’t forget, with Tasha’s out even a 1 level dip into Ranger will also get you access to Favored Foe. It’s not Hunter’s Mark, but with it you might not need Hunter’s Mark, something like Zephyr’s Strike might be more appealing.
Oh, excellent point. I forgot about the changes to Ranger at level 1. Favored Foe can be used a lot more than Hunter's Mark, and doesn't compete with other bonus action options that Monk has plenty of. Deft Explorer also gives Expertise on one skill, which can help to compensate for below-average stats, and two additional languages known could be very useful if you pick the right ones for your campaign.
Oof. Monk is the wrong class to be when you roll poorly in stats, and it's not great for multiclassing either. I'd just push forward and get your DEX up at every opportunity.
FF is a poor substitute for HM because it only happens 1/turn. The ability of monks to magnify the per-hit use of HM is a big part of what justifies the MC dip in the first place, so a poor substitute just changes the math to "don't MC."
Certainly Ranger can give you interesting things, but if you're truly looking to optimize a monk, the answer is almost always to just keep taking monk levels. Fey Touched is a pretty interesting alternative, but if you're interested in maintaining a specific character concept it may be a bit harder to figure out how it fits in with that.
Don’t forget, with Tasha’s out even a 1 level dip into Ranger will also get you access to Favored Foe. It’s not Hunter’s Mark, but with it you might not need Hunter’s Mark, something like Zephyr’s Strike might be more appealing.
Oh, excellent point. I forgot about the changes to Ranger at level 1. Favored Foe can be used a lot more than Hunter's Mark, and doesn't compete with other bonus action options that Monk has plenty of. Deft Explorer also gives Expertise on one skill, which can help to compensate for below-average stats, and two additional languages known could be very useful if you pick the right ones for your campaign.
This is actually a pretty good use of Favored Foe! I like it a lot.
Yeah, even before Tasha’s Ranger 2 was a decent dip for Monks, the UA version was WAAYYY better, Tasha’s is just better than before. But hey, it’s better than a kick in the dangly bits.
If you really want to push it take HM and FF, it doesn’t hurt. But combining the Zephyr Strike and popping the FF when it hits as a double whammy isn’t a bad option. Besides, as a melee combatant a Monk is likely to get forced to make a Concentration check once in a while. Having FF as a backup option the HM ain’t a bad idea when you only get 2 spell slots.
If you roll a bit better than the OP did (or optimize Race) and can afford to drop an ASI on a feat then snag Fey Touched too. Use this for Hunter’s Mark and grab Zephyr’s and Cure Wounds with your Ranger level. Then you can maximize HM and FF but still have the other two in your back pocket.
Yeah, even before Tasha’s Ranger 2 was a decent dip for Monks, the UA version was WAAYYY better, Tasha’s is just better than before. But hey, it’s better than a kick in the dangly bits.
If you really want to push it take HM and FF, it doesn’t hurt. But combining the Zephyr Strike and popping the FF when it hits as a double whammy isn’t a bad option. Besides, as a melee combatant a Monk is likely to get forced to make a Concentration check once in a while. Having FF as a backup option the HM ain’t a bad idea when you only get 2 spell slots.
If you roll a bit better than the OP did (or optimize Race) and can afford to drop an ASI on a feat then snag Fey Touched too. Use this for Hunter’s Mark and grab Zephyr’s and Cure Wounds with your Ranger level. Then you can maximize HM and FF but still have the other two in your back pocket.
yeah and it actually makes sense for the monk as they have other resources to use then beyond ki which is in short supply with MC.
I would consider bumping your Dexterity up at 4th level and then taking the Crusher feat at 8th level to increase your Constitution and gain the other two benefits in combat. Especially if you are an Open Hand monk and you’re using your Ki points for Flurry of Blows.
My character is built off what I thought would be an interesting character concept rather than optimal power. I also didn't get the best rolls when generating his stats. However, now that I have the basic concept and character in place, I'd like to start building him better, so he doesn't fall too far behind the rest of the party.
Level 2 Half-Orc monk
stats:
I was thinking of taking a couple of ranger levels to pair my flurry of blows with Hunter's mark. And ranger very much fits with the character's personality background I think. The problem is, I'd be delaying my stat increase, and I very much need to pump more points into dex. What are your thoughts? How could I improve this character's combat ability?
There is some debate about whether unarmed strikes count as "weapon" attacks which are required for the extra damage granted by hunter's mark and for many of the other available Ranger spells at 1st level. Taking two levels of ranger delays your first ASI until level 6 (assuming you take no additional levels in it after level 2). I really would prioritize an ASI to get your Dex mod up another point as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, your current stats are not well suited for a lot of multiclassing, but might I recommend Druid? two levels there grants you wildshape, your spells would use the same Modifier as Ranger, and you would get your subclass circle with 2 levels (Rangers subclass kicks in at level 3). Moon Druid might be a potent subclass, as you get an enhanced wildshape (up to CR 1), use of spell slots for healing while wildshaped, and you can wild shape as a bonus action. Thematically, Ranger and Druid have a lot of similarities so you could feasibly justify the same reasons for Druid as you were planning to do for Ranger.
Not so, and Unarmed Strike most definitively counts as a “melee weapon attack,” but it does not count as “an attack with a melee weapon.” Hunter’s Mark most definitely applies to Unarmed Strikes.
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Taking your Monk Subclass will do more for you than a dip at this level, and Monks need their ASIs like junkies need their fix.
Two levels of Ranger is a pretty fantastic dip for a Monk, but you would likely want to wait until after 4th level. Druid makes a good dip too, the subclasses in Tasha’s specifically have some features that scale off of Proficiency bonus, so those would still improve even if you don’t continue to take levels in those classes.
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That was it...sorry for the confusion (and incorrect info).
It’s not your fault that it’s confusing, you didn’t write the book that way, Crawford did.
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Here's my suggestion to get access to Hunter's Mark without needing to multiclass into Ranger...
Shift your 15 in CON to a 15 in WIS. Take the new Tasha's Feat, "Fey Touched". This feat lets you put a +1 in WIS, bringing that up to a 16. Monks use WIS to determine their AC, so that brings you up to a 15AC. The feat also gives you a once-a-day cast of Misty Step, which is a great utility spell that pairs well with a Monk's focus on mobility. The feat also gives you a once-a-day first level spell of your choice, as long as it's divination or enchantment... and luckily, Hunter's Mark is Divination.
You'll still have a delay on improving your DEX, but this won't slow you down on your progress through the Monk class, and the WIS boost gives you a nice bonus to optimize your class choice.
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Don’t forget, with Tasha’s out even a 1 level dip into Ranger will also get you access to Favored Foe. It’s not Hunter’s Mark, but with it you might not need Hunter’s Mark, something like Zephyr’s Strike might be more appealing.
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That's a great idea, but it'd kinda feel like cheating to me because the stat I rolled was 14 it only became 15 with the half-orc's con bonus. Still great idea, I might implement later on thanks!
Another fantastic idea, but unfortunately my DM is not at all fond of the variant class options from Tasha's. Still some a lot of helpful info here so far. Thanks!
Oh, excellent point. I forgot about the changes to Ranger at level 1. Favored Foe can be used a lot more than Hunter's Mark, and doesn't compete with other bonus action options that Monk has plenty of. Deft Explorer also gives Expertise on one skill, which can help to compensate for below-average stats, and two additional languages known could be very useful if you pick the right ones for your campaign.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Oof. Monk is the wrong class to be when you roll poorly in stats, and it's not great for multiclassing either. I'd just push forward and get your DEX up at every opportunity.
FF is a poor substitute for HM because it only happens 1/turn. The ability of monks to magnify the per-hit use of HM is a big part of what justifies the MC dip in the first place, so a poor substitute just changes the math to "don't MC."
Certainly Ranger can give you interesting things, but if you're truly looking to optimize a monk, the answer is almost always to just keep taking monk levels. Fey Touched is a pretty interesting alternative, but if you're interested in maintaining a specific character concept it may be a bit harder to figure out how it fits in with that.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
This is actually a pretty good use of Favored Foe! I like it a lot.
Yeah, even before Tasha’s Ranger 2 was a decent dip for Monks, the UA version was WAAYYY better, Tasha’s is just better than before. But hey, it’s better than a kick in the dangly bits.
If you really want to push it take HM and FF, it doesn’t hurt. But combining the Zephyr Strike and popping the FF when it hits as a double whammy isn’t a bad option. Besides, as a melee combatant a Monk is likely to get forced to make a Concentration check once in a while. Having FF as a backup option the HM ain’t a bad idea when you only get 2 spell slots.
If you roll a bit better than the OP did (or optimize Race) and can afford to drop an ASI on a feat then snag Fey Touched too. Use this for Hunter’s Mark and grab Zephyr’s and Cure Wounds with your Ranger level. Then you can maximize HM and FF but still have the other two in your back pocket.
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yeah and it actually makes sense for the monk as they have other resources to use then beyond ki which is in short supply with MC.
I would consider bumping your Dexterity up at 4th level and then taking the Crusher feat at 8th level to increase your Constitution and gain the other two benefits in combat. Especially if you are an Open Hand monk and you’re using your Ki points for Flurry of Blows.
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