Not sure about the stat thing, nor would I say evocation is a good choice since it is so dedicated to killing people. With Wish you get any 8th level and lower spell, which includes all sorts of divination (absurdly useful) as well as teleportation spells, instantly conjuring structures and creatures, invisibility spells etc. The world really does become your oyster.
I wouldn't be bothering risking losing wish PERMANENTLY with a lot of the reality warping powers or conjuring items etc.
Instantly creating clone vats, bringing people back to life, creating permanent loyal slaves of animals or people or undead. The utility of having it is far more worthwhile in the long term.
Evocation Wizard: Variant Human (it's a human) with Magic Initiate Wizard as its feat (as a level 20 Wizard I can use Wish to get this anyway).
Stats: 20s across the board. Thanks Wish.
Spellbook: All spells available. Thanks Wish.
1st Wish: 11 (if 33 or less, lose ability to cast wish ever again)
Probably don't get the other two.
If using wish for anything other than replicating spells you have 33% chance of never being able to cast it ever again.
First Wish, remove the chance of losing Wish.
There's nothing in the rules for Wish that forbids it, and there is no DM saying I can't, so... we're good.
Well, given that in this exercise you're not able to use wish for anything but spell replication you're going to have a hard time with that.
I did forget about that too, but I'm thinking "no DM would allow that" and then then read you saying there's no DM. My thinking was "oh, yeah, but wait, the OP is kinda like a DM here" and then I remembered, checked their post and yup - no exploity cheating.
Basically, what would you do for a living if you woke up one day as a 20th level Wizard in the Real World?
How would you make a living? Use Stone Shape and Wall of Stone and set up a construction company? Set up Teleportation Circles on either side of the Atlantic and give American Airlines a run for their money? Scry for the NSA/FBI/CIA?
Constraints: 1) We'll go with 5e Wizards. School choice is up to you. 2) For the sake of argument and this thought exercise, we will say that 1GP=$100 US. There has been all kinds of math and other posts about this, and $100US is about in the middle of the road. 3) You are the only Wizard. You do not have to worry about Dispel Magic. 4) No Violent World Domination. Let's get creative and see what kind of business venture you can get into for yourself. 5) No Wish spell usage other than to use any 8th level or lower spell. The other usages opens up several cans of worms, and let's skip that for now. 6) Crafting. Let's use Xanathar's for how long/how much it will cost you to craft Magic Items should you want to go that route. 7) You wake up with a Spellcasting Focus of your choice, as real world usage of Components would be a lot more complicated than what 5e allows. You will still have to get your Ruby Dust for Continual Flame etc etc.
I assume, since we don't live in a world with magic, we would have a full spellbook though. Otherwise the Wizard has no magic at all, except cantrips.
Since I did say variant human with magic initiate wizard, that does give me one level 1 spell that I always know, and can cast with my spell slots regardless, and take spell sniper as another feat to get another cantrip. At level 20 that's 8 cantrips.
Stats: 14, 10, 14, 20, 10, 10. We don't have armour here, Mage Armour and Shield aside, and it's good to be strong and robust. Feats: Magic Initiate (Wizard), Spell Sniper (Wizard), War Caster, Elemental Adept (Fire). Signature Spells: Fireball, Fly. Cantrips: Control Flames, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Fire Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Mending. First level spell from Magic Initiate: Disguise Self.
Anything else I'll just learn from my spellbook when I need it.
Given all direct damage spells appear to be Evocation I'm adding my Intelligence modifier to the damage of the spell. Not that that really matters, because in the real world if you shoot someone with a fireball or fire bolt, or smack them with shocking grasp, they're going to be badly hurt and probably die.
The elemental spells are simply for utilitarian value. Moving dirt, moving water, controlling fire, especially when they're cantrips and take no effort to cast, would be extremely useful in the real world. Fire Bolt and Shocking Grasp for self defense in extremis. Mage Hand, because I'm lazy and don't want to stand up too often. Prestidigitation and Mending allow me to clean and repair things.
I assume, since we don't live in a world with magic, we would have a full spellbook though. Otherwise the Wizard has no magic at all, except cantrips.
Since I did say variant human with magic initiate wizard, that does give me one level 1 spell that I always know, and can cast with my spell slots regardless, and take spell sniper as another feat to get another cantrip. At level 20 that's 8 cantrips.
. . .
The elemental spells are simply for utilitarian value. Moving dirt, moving water, controlling fire, especially when they're cantrips and take no effort to cast, would be extremely useful in the real world. Fire Bolt and Shocking Grasp for self defense in extremis. Mage Hand, because I'm lazy and don't want to stand up too often. Prestidigitation and Mending allow me to clean and repair things.
I'm honestly uncertain about whether you get a full spell book of every spell available to a wizard or not. Since the OP did not specify, I went on the assumption that no extra spells beyond what would have naturally come along through gaining those 20 levels would be available. So, I had to be a little careful on that front for spell choice as I built my wizard for this thought experiment. Wish obviously becomes very important for a lot of things in this regard as it can then be used to bypass the expended materials costs (even with a spell focus there are some spells that still use things up). It would just take a lot more time and patience to set things up nicely in a lot of cases. As to the choices of cantrips that's a pretty solid list.
Not sure about the stat thing, nor would I say evocation is a good choice since it is so dedicated to killing people. With Wish you get any 8th level and lower spell, which includes all sorts of divination (absurdly useful) as well as teleportation spells, instantly conjuring structures and creatures, invisibility spells etc. The world really does become your oyster.
Evocation really isn't dedicated to killing people but I agree with everything else
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you ever ask a wizard to list the books they've read recently, prepare to be there for a solid week. " - Original.
irresponsibly, also do i just have all wizard spells in my book? what is my intelegence score?
with that out of the way, i'd start by messing arround with true polymorph, then i'd defenetly abuse the wall of stone spell. With just one minute of work i can create several permanent stone wall panels wherever i want. I can make a castle, i can block of an road or a building and nobody can stop me, i can play mega jenga, like screw all other spells only wall of stone IRL can do a lot of shit.
other than that idk man tounges is an good spell to have in everyday life, i am only 16 i will not make some crazy buisness venture i will just want to chill with my friends enjoing all spoken languages forever and being able to be understood by anyone, mage hand can be useful for playing dnd with the lads as can magic circle since i am constantly needing to go to my friend jonathans house to play dnd but i dont wanna cykle there with all me books
oh yeah and if anyone else trys to call themselves a grand wizard they will be mage dueled to death like the impostors they are
also use wish to replicate every cleric spell without issue, thus becoming an medicine person who can heal everything
Cast Demi plane, make a bunch of clones of myself, train a ton of other wizards, cast true Polymorph on a bunch of sand and create all the dnd creatures, elves dwarves and dragons etc, eventually become new god of magic
I think true polymorph would be my go to spell. I would probably spend a year or more making a couatl or unicorn everyday from a rock or something. Then I would make sure to concentrate for the whole hour so that they stay permanently to go and do some good in the world. Definitely make at least enough to have a viable breeding population.
After that, I would probably use true polymorph to bring back recently extinct species like the dodo bird, Tasmanian tiger, aurochs, etc.
Also anyone not picking up keen mind as a feat choice in this thought experiment is doing themselves a disservice.
Yes, they can teleport up to a mile away once per day and they can heal themselves. They should be mostly okay. Or you just set them up on their own uninhabited island or something. Send sick people there.
I have no concerns for the couatl. They can disguise self at will and are immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical sources.
Making Unicorns to heal for you would be great so you don't need to spend your Wish on it, but you gotta remember to memory wipe people that go there. You'd also probably want to Geas anyone too just to keep that secret safe. Another thing that I feel needs to get pointed out is it isn't enough to bring back an extinct species, since those went extinct for a reason. Dodos got out competed by invasive rats and such that came with explorers, and most recently extinct species would end up just being oddities rather than much productive. Also something some people seem to have forgotten, you are the ONLY wizard in the world, meaning no apprentices. This becomes important when you realize that if nobody else has magic, there is basically no counters to what a wizard is capable of doing with illusions/divination etc.
Making Unicorns to heal for you would be great so you don't need to spend your Wish on it, but you gotta remember to memory wipe people that go there. You'd also probably want to Geas anyone too just to keep that secret safe. Another thing that I feel needs to get pointed out is it isn't enough to bring back an extinct species, since those went extinct for a reason. Dodos got out competed by invasive rats and such that came with explorers, and most recently extinct species would end up just being oddities rather than much productive. Also something some people seem to have forgotten, you are the ONLY wizard in the world, meaning no apprentices. This becomes important when you realize that if nobody else has magic, there is basically no counters to what a wizard is capable of doing with illusions/divination etc.
If the reason a species went extinct is because people overhunted, then it's completely "plausible" to magically bring back a species. Species do get reintroduced to the wild and can be very successful. Look at the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone.
Invasive species outcompeting is a different issue, but the dodo would have much better odds of still existing without the added pressure of being hunted by humans. The kiwi has those same invasive species issues but not the same hunting issues. It is still chugging along.
The real issue with trying to recreate an extinct species via magic is how well you can create a population with enough genetic variability to insure that it will be able to reproduce on its own. Simply creating two dodos or thylacines isn't going to cut it- within a couple of generations they'll be so inbred they'll stop being reproductively viable and go extinct again. You'd need hundreds of pairs that aren't closely related to each other in order to make sure that they don't start all developing severe physical conditions or all get wiped out by the same infection. Look at other species that have had their populations collapse down to only a few individuals- enabling them to keep reproducing successfully is extremely hard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The current population of Kiwi birds is descended from 5 survivors after they almost went extinct. This has led to some problems, as you would imagine, they all had to breed together with cousins and other relatives.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Not sure about the stat thing, nor would I say evocation is a good choice since it is so dedicated to killing people. With Wish you get any 8th level and lower spell, which includes all sorts of divination (absurdly useful) as well as teleportation spells, instantly conjuring structures and creatures, invisibility spells etc. The world really does become your oyster.
How about using wish spell for fullcharged:
Tome of Clear Thought
Tome of Leadership and influence
Tome of Understanding
You can then get your INT, WIS and CHA to at least 30 (Nothing in the magic items that says you can't go past 30)
Thought it might be a curse to be too wise or too smart. It might become a what's the point of living type issue.
I'd probably chose Enchantment wizard with charm person as spell mastery.
I'd be a chronurgist wizard, so I can just make anyone instantly fail/succeed anything I feel like making them fail.
Intelligence check to pass a test, instant success for myself, or instant fail for a rival.
Attack roll to punch me? Instant fail.
Saving Throw to dodge a grenade? Instant success for me, or instant fail for an enemy soldier.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I wouldn't be bothering risking losing wish PERMANENTLY with a lot of the reality warping powers or conjuring items etc.
Instantly creating clone vats, bringing people back to life, creating permanent loyal slaves of animals or people or undead. The utility of having it is far more worthwhile in the long term.
First Wish, remove the chance of losing Wish.
There's nothing in the rules for Wish that forbids it, and there is no DM saying I can't, so... we're good.
Well, given that in this exercise you're not able to use wish for anything but spell replication you're going to have a hard time with that.
I did forget about that too, but I'm thinking "no DM would allow that" and then then read you saying there's no DM. My thinking was "oh, yeah, but wait, the OP is kinda like a DM here" and then I remembered, checked their post and yup - no exploity cheating.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Alright then, fair enough.
I assume, since we don't live in a world with magic, we would have a full spellbook though. Otherwise the Wizard has no magic at all, except cantrips.
Since I did say variant human with magic initiate wizard, that does give me one level 1 spell that I always know, and can cast with my spell slots regardless, and take spell sniper as another feat to get another cantrip. At level 20 that's 8 cantrips.
Stats: 14, 10, 14, 20, 10, 10. We don't have armour here, Mage Armour and Shield aside, and it's good to be strong and robust.
Feats: Magic Initiate (Wizard), Spell Sniper (Wizard), War Caster, Elemental Adept (Fire).
Signature Spells: Fireball, Fly.
Cantrips: Control Flames, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Fire Bolt, Shocking Grasp, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Mending.
First level spell from Magic Initiate: Disguise Self.
Anything else I'll just learn from my spellbook when I need it.
Given all direct damage spells appear to be Evocation I'm adding my Intelligence modifier to the damage of the spell. Not that that really matters, because in the real world if you shoot someone with a fireball or fire bolt, or smack them with shocking grasp, they're going to be badly hurt and probably die.
The elemental spells are simply for utilitarian value. Moving dirt, moving water, controlling fire, especially when they're cantrips and take no effort to cast, would be extremely useful in the real world. Fire Bolt and Shocking Grasp for self defense in extremis. Mage Hand, because I'm lazy and don't want to stand up too often. Prestidigitation and Mending allow me to clean and repair things.
WELL DONE, MASTER !!!
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
I'm honestly uncertain about whether you get a full spell book of every spell available to a wizard or not. Since the OP did not specify, I went on the assumption that no extra spells beyond what would have naturally come along through gaining those 20 levels would be available. So, I had to be a little careful on that front for spell choice as I built my wizard for this thought experiment. Wish obviously becomes very important for a lot of things in this regard as it can then be used to bypass the expended materials costs (even with a spell focus there are some spells that still use things up). It would just take a lot more time and patience to set things up nicely in a lot of cases. As to the choices of cantrips that's a pretty solid list.
Evocation really isn't dedicated to killing people but I agree with everything else
"If you ever ask a wizard to list the books they've read recently, prepare to be there for a solid week. " - Original.
Grammar Cult
Bow down to Cats! (Cult of Cats)
irresponsibly, also do i just have all wizard spells in my book? what is my intelegence score?
with that out of the way, i'd start by messing arround with true polymorph, then i'd defenetly abuse the wall of stone spell. With just one minute of work i can create several permanent stone wall panels wherever i want. I can make a castle, i can block of an road or a building and nobody can stop me, i can play mega jenga, like screw all other spells only wall of stone IRL can do a lot of shit.
other than that idk man tounges is an good spell to have in everyday life, i am only 16 i will not make some crazy buisness venture i will just want to chill with my friends enjoing all spoken languages forever and being able to be understood by anyone, mage hand can be useful for playing dnd with the lads as can magic circle since i am constantly needing to go to my friend jonathans house to play dnd but i dont wanna cykle there with all me books
oh yeah and if anyone else trys to call themselves a grand wizard they will be mage dueled to death like the impostors they are
also use wish to replicate every cleric spell without issue, thus becoming an medicine person who can heal everything
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Cast Demi plane, make a bunch of clones of myself, train a ton of other wizards, cast true Polymorph on a bunch of sand and create all the dnd creatures, elves dwarves and dragons etc, eventually become new god of magic
I think true polymorph would be my go to spell. I would probably spend a year or more making a couatl or unicorn everyday from a rock or something. Then I would make sure to concentrate for the whole hour so that they stay permanently to go and do some good in the world. Definitely make at least enough to have a viable breeding population.
After that, I would probably use true polymorph to bring back recently extinct species like the dodo bird, Tasmanian tiger, aurochs, etc.
Also anyone not picking up keen mind as a feat choice in this thought experiment is doing themselves a disservice.
Better make sure they can defend themselves, unicorn horn would fetch a high price
Yes, they can teleport up to a mile away once per day and they can heal themselves. They should be mostly okay. Or you just set them up on their own uninhabited island or something. Send sick people there.
I have no concerns for the couatl. They can disguise self at will and are immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical sources.
Making Unicorns to heal for you would be great so you don't need to spend your Wish on it, but you gotta remember to memory wipe people that go there. You'd also probably want to Geas anyone too just to keep that secret safe. Another thing that I feel needs to get pointed out is it isn't enough to bring back an extinct species, since those went extinct for a reason. Dodos got out competed by invasive rats and such that came with explorers, and most recently extinct species would end up just being oddities rather than much productive. Also something some people seem to have forgotten, you are the ONLY wizard in the world, meaning no apprentices. This becomes important when you realize that if nobody else has magic, there is basically no counters to what a wizard is capable of doing with illusions/divination etc.
If the reason a species went extinct is because people overhunted, then it's completely "plausible" to magically bring back a species. Species do get reintroduced to the wild and can be very successful. Look at the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone.
Invasive species outcompeting is a different issue, but the dodo would have much better odds of still existing without the added pressure of being hunted by humans. The kiwi has those same invasive species issues but not the same hunting issues. It is still chugging along.
The real issue with trying to recreate an extinct species via magic is how well you can create a population with enough genetic variability to insure that it will be able to reproduce on its own. Simply creating two dodos or thylacines isn't going to cut it- within a couple of generations they'll be so inbred they'll stop being reproductively viable and go extinct again. You'd need hundreds of pairs that aren't closely related to each other in order to make sure that they don't start all developing severe physical conditions or all get wiped out by the same infection. Look at other species that have had their populations collapse down to only a few individuals- enabling them to keep reproducing successfully is extremely hard.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The current population of Kiwi birds is descended from 5 survivors after they almost went extinct. This has led to some problems, as you would imagine, they all had to breed together with cousins and other relatives.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Considering that you can add a new (presumably genetically unique) individual every day, I wouldn't worry too much about inbreeding.
Still, I think I'd focus on the couatls first. They could do much more good than having a herd of aurochs or a very special zoo.