Adding via homebrew is just copying from the book once, and then you never have to do it again.
But correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that the data entry is tedious and not worth your time for free? But you want free access to that same data entry work that someone else has already done?
So... I own physical copies of PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual for 5e. My group and I moved to 5e and threw all my eggs in the DnDBeyond.com basket. Not a single regret to this day. I got the Legendary Bundle (currently have access to every official piece of 5e content). picked up 2 Master Subs (second one on a second twitch account). Now I'm sharing all the official content across 6 campaigns I play in (DMing two). That's 31 (active) characters and 5 DMs, total unique individuals is 30. So that's 30 unique people who have access to all WotC official D&D content for the price of each digital book (properly digitized which is way better than just PDF). Legendary bundle offered discounts as well for a total of $337.20 USD for content and $110/yr USD for the two Master subs. Totally worth it in my opinion given a physical Player's Handbook from Amazon.com is $40 (if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber). So just the cost of each Player getting a PHB is = 30 players * $40 = $1200 USD (which is exactly what'd you need if anyone could look up any PHB content at any time via DnDBeyond.com). + Here's the big thing, it's made it easy for new people to play. I paid once, and now new people are welcome and don't have to worry about buying anything (except their dice :P for the in person games). It's the new Golden Age of D&D in my opinion. Whatever I can do to get more people to play the better!
And yes, if we all stole PDFs of these books we all could play for free. Now full disclosure, a few people did buy their own PHB or DMG or Monster Manual in the groups I play in. So yes that's sunk cost that could be recovered by selling their books back (they won't and neither will I).
I presented real math. Not imagined so far.
Even for a single group, the DnDBeyond.com pricing math isn't bad. And that's how we have to look at DnDBeyond.com as a resource for a group/campaign. The individual math for a single person is "meh".
And my 2 Master Subs. I see it as investment into the product for the long-haul. There are exciting new things coming out on a regular basis. Those cost money to make. My expectation is not for anyone to do so for free.
My only feedback. When Critical Role Campaign 2 started a code was given for discount on a purchase. I have nothing to buy (already got it all). If you can make a way for me to claim the coupon and use it when purchasable content becomes available that would be great.
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Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
I have several questions to be honest (maybe beyond scope of this site).
I have twitch prime (not free), which I use to sign in here and to be able to use the free features, yet I have to pay a subscription fee to get full content here.
I also have Roll20 subscription (paid) and a fantasy grounds subscription (paid), both these subscriptions are at the highest tier.
I have the hard copies of the D&D books, yet I still have to pay for the digital copies to be able to use on the sites, not just one site, but a different copy for each one. This has cost me several hundreds of dollars, to get them on one site.
The copies I buy online are non-downloadable and can not be used on all sites, this is just crazy in my opinion. With fantasy grounds, I bought a lifetime subscription and the complete packages, and recieved them as a download and a program.
With this site and the roll20 site, I have to pay for the subscription, then I have to buy the books and packages (full price like buying them from a hard copy from a store).
Yet I do not get to keep them, if I do not pay my subscription, if you cancel the subscription, I lose the books and packages I paid additional retail price for.
Shouldn't the books and packages be included in the subscription, since you take them away, even if we bought them as an additional retail price?
If we pay for the books, do we not own them or are we just renting them???
I do not know what your licensing arrangements with WOC are, but for some reason this just seems to be wrong.
Please leave this post up, as I would like to read the feedback and maybe have you explain this to me.
Public Mod Note
(subsistcyber):
Post merged with Pricing Feedback and FAQ Thread.
I have several questions to be honest (maybe beyond scope of this site).
I have twitch prime (not free), which I use to sign in here and to be able to use the free features, yet I have to pay a subscription fee to get full content here.
I also have Roll20 subscription (paid) and a fantasy grounds subscription (paid), both these subscriptions are at the highest tier.
I have the hard copies of the D&D books, yet I still have to pay for the digital copies to be able to use on the sites, not just one site, but a different copy for each one. This has cost me several hundreds of dollars, to get them on one site.
The copies I buy online are non-downloadable and can not be used on all sites, this is just crazy in my opinion. With fantasy grounds, I bought a lifetime subscription and the complete packages, and recieved them as a download and a program.
With this site and the roll20 site, I have to pay for the subscription, then I have to buy the books and packages (full price like buying them from a hard copy from a store).
Yet I do not get to keep them, if I do not pay my subscription, if you cancel the subscription, I lose the books and packages I paid additional retail price for.
Shouldn't the books and packages be included in the subscription, since you take them away, even if we bought them as an additional retail price?
If we pay for the books, do we not own them or are we just renting them???
I do not know what your licensing arrangements with WOC are, but for some reason this just seems to be wrong.
Please leave this post up, as I would like to read the feedback and maybe have you explain this to me.
I know for one thing that not having subscriptions (here or on Roll20) does not preclude you from accessing your purchased content. As far as what happens if DDB goes belly up in a year, I'm not sure and I don't want to find out because I love it.
That being said, the mobile app (currently in Alpha) does indeed allow you to download the content and store it offline so you have your copies on hand when and where ever you go.
Also, no one here is paying full retail prices for their books. We're not even paying Amazon prices for them. They're heavily discounted on these sites and that's thanks in large part to DDB (and Curse).
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
The books and packages are not connected to subscriptions here in any way. Subscriptions are optional to gain additional benefits like campaign sharing, or having more character storage space. You can buy the books and not buy any subscription.
Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and D&D Beyond are all separate entities. The money you paid Roll20 for your subscription and any content does not go to Curse, who have developed this tool. The money you paid for your physical book goes to WOTC, not to Curse, who have developed this tool. The money you gave to Fantasy Grounds-- Well, you get the idea. Curse is a separate entity.
You are able to enter in any of the content from your books as Homebrew if you prefer not to buy it from DDB (except for Subclasses, but that is going to be coming to DDB in the near future), as long as you don't try to publish it.
Adding via homebrew is just copying from the book once, and then you never have to do it again.
But correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that the data entry is tedious and not worth your time for free? But you want free access to that same data entry work that someone else has already done?
Hmmm.
Not worth my time because the alternative is writing down the stuff manually onto a character sheet. So the option of entering it as homebrew doesn't save me any time and isn't a convenience.
Not to mention, you're comparing one person doing data entry for themselves (and for everyone like that person to do it themselves) vs one person doing data entry for what I can only assume is thousands of users. There's an entirely different scale at play here.
Right, but the difference is that the person doing data entry for thousands is doing that as their job. Meaning someone is paying them to do it. Which means money has to come in to pay them with. Which means they have to charge for the product.
Meanwhile, your data entry may be time consuming, but you did it once and it's done for as many characters as you want to make with that feature for as long as the site exists. With physical sheets, you have to write it down every time you make a new character. Also, private homebrew can be shared within a campaign, meaning you don't even have to do all of the work. If your friend in your campaign enters a spell, you can add it to your character as well. Your DM doesn't have to sit down and enter the entire Monsters Manual. They just enter monsters as they need for the upcoming session, and then if those monsters come back, the work is already done (if they even care to do that).
Again, trying to keep this in the realm of polite conversation, but at this point it seems like you're being argumentative for the sake of such. Are you sure you weren't just miffed about not getting this for free/discounted on the front end and now no matter any attempt to compromise, it can do no right? If it's that vile of a product in your opinion, why are you even still here? You've made your case that you are unhappy with the pricing model. The people who work at Curse have seen it. If you made good points, they noted them. All the rest of us are trying to do is find a way for you to still find use of the service. If that is impossible, have a nice day!
Is it only the mobile app that allows me to download my personal files and purchased products, or can I download them and save them on my computer?
Is the stuff I purchase and create here compatible with my other virtual game subscription (as mentioned), ie: can I use my maps, characters and campaigns on the other sites.
Some people might like to play on DDB, Roll20, FG or steam sites. I play on all of them.
Is it only the mobile app that allows me to download my personal files and purchased products, or can I download them and save them on my computer?
Is the stuff I purchase and create here compatible with my other virtual game subscription (as mentioned), ie: can I use my maps, characters and campaigns on the other sites.
Some people might like to play on DDB, Roll20, FG or steam sites. I play on all of them.
Right now the mobile app is the only way to view offline content. The app is also in alpha testing, so it's not widely available yet. You can export characters to PDF, but the current character export is less than ideal, and should be vastly improved when the character overhaul comes out. In the meantime you can always copy and paste any missing information onto the PDF (which is form-fillable)
There has been talk of potential cross-functionality with VTT services, but that has not been implemented yet. Maps can be saved though. I save the high-res player maps from here and upload them to roll20 to project on my table TV.
I was SOOOO excited to use this app from watching the new Critical Role season as the iOS is seriously lacking any decent spellbooks/character creation - but the fact that I have to now re-purchase each hardcover book I own just to access it through the app is 110% not worth it. This really weird car salesman marketing pitch of "well it's a different company so you should pay them too, for the identical content you already own" is just super grimy.
How is this grimy? McDonald's is not refilling the drink you purchased from Burger King; You have to rebuy it if you want access from another retailer. WOTC did not make nor owns D&D Beyond. None of the money you paid to 'Retailer A' has come here. This is a separate retailer.
All these fast-food related analogies do is confuse the real issues. Food and copyrighted materials aren't similar in any way. You can't make perfect copies of food for a marginal cost too small to measure. You can't download food. You can't copyright food.
Even the corporate part of the metaphor is completely misleading. The relationship between Wizards and Curse is not the repationship between competing franchises. It is far more similar to the difference between franchisor (HugeCo Holdings, LLC) and franchisee (your local restaurant) If I bought a refillable cup from HugeCo, I would have every right to expect my local franchise to refill it.
The fact that Wizards didn't make the incredibly obvious business decision to do some co-marketing by bundling D&D Beyond scratch-off discount codes (even $5-$10 off) with physical books means that Wizards is a, well, inexperienced to be generous, incompetent to be frank, franchisor, with poor understanding of their own customers. Giving coupons for related products in order to promote them and make your customers happy is not a new or difficult concept.
Inexperienced might be the best way to describe it. WotC released 5e with no digital plan in place, after the failures of previous attempts at digital content. They knew what they didn't want to do, which were PDF files, so they opted to do nothing and focus on the primary physical product.
BadEye had the idea to develop a toolset, and Curse pitched the digital toolset to WotC in 2017, and WotC liked it and decided to sell them a license and allow them to proceed in a similar fashion to the way VTTs have been licensing the content. This was not a plan by WotC all along. That may be the disconnect many people are having.
So there may be more cohesion between physical and digital in 6e (which is supposed to be backwards compatible with 5e, although there's no clear answer on what that means just yet). That remains to be seen. But I would not expect any form of PDF, as this seems to be a hard line that WotC is unwilling to cross from all indications.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just saying how things seem to be.
I have two questions for the people who want free digital access to all the content because they bought the physical books...
1. If 5e had been launched as a digital format first (NOT a PDF, but something like DDB), and you bought it, and then WotC released physical books, would you expect to get a physical copy for free if you'd already bought the digital version first?
2. When you buy other physical books from the bookstore (or Amazon) like a fiction novel, or non-fiction book, do you expect to get the digital (Kindle/Kobo/etc) or Audiobook versions for free?
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Right, but the difference is that the person doing data entry for thousands is doing that as their job. Meaning someone is paying them to do it. Which means money has to come in to pay them with. Which means they have to charge for the product.
Okay, yes, someone is paying them to do it. How long do you think it would take to enter a race into the database? Let's just round up to an hour. I can't imagine any race is going to be more than an hour. Let's assume the person doing data entry is exceptionally well-paid and makes $30 an hour. And then let's assume it takes a team of three QA people that are also very well-paid, making $30 an hour each, an hour to make sure it's right. So that's a cost of $120 for that race, which costs $3 per user. At forty people you've made back your costs. Everything after that is just free money. At thousands of users, paying for the cost of the development is trivial. The money isn't 'needed' to fund development, it's desired because a business exists to make the most money possible.
Meanwhile, your data entry may be time consuming, but you did it once and it's done for as many characters as you want to make with that feature for as long as the site exists. With physical sheets, you have to write it down every time you make a new character. Also, private homebrew can be shared within a campaign, meaning you don't even have to do all of the work. If your friend in your campaign enters a spell, you can add it to your character as well. Your DM doesn't have to sit down and enter the entire Monsters Manual. They just enter monsters as they need for the upcoming session, and then if those monsters come back, the work is already done (if they even care to do that).
Once per character that uses the feature- outside of spells and feats, this isn't helpful. I almost never make characters with overlapping classes or races. (Admittedly this may be a me-specific issue.)
Shared homebrew- A feature that I can only take advantage of when everyone else is already on the platform. Of the couple dozen of people I play RPGs with, no one uses D&D Beyond.
Monsters as they need- well, now you're discussing a world where digital tools are on the table, as opposed to using a tool to fill out a physical sheet. In that case, I'd probably just save the stat block as a txt file rather than use a third party platform that's, at this point, a glorified Dropbox.
Again, trying to keep this in the realm of polite conversation, but at this point it seems like you're being argumentative for the sake of such. Are you sure you weren't just miffed about not getting this for free/discounted on the front end and now no matter any attempt to compromise, it can do no right? If it's that vile of a product in your opinion, why are you even still here? You've made your case that you are unhappy with the pricing model. The people who work at Curse have seen it. If you made good points, they noted them. All the rest of us are trying to do is find a way for you to still find use of the service. If that is impossible, have a nice day!
Are you really keeping this in the realm of polite conversation? Frankly I feel like you've been kind of condescending to me.
This goes both ways. You've made it clear you're a fan of the service. What do you have to gain by arguing with me? The product isn't vile, it's just silly-overpriced. I feel like Curse is trying to sell me a $30 can of soda. "But it's just soda, it's like stupid cheap to make." "Yeah but the can has gold leafing on it, so we need to make up that cost." "Do you have any non-gilded cans?" "No, stop acting so entitled to soda."
The point I came into this thread with, like, weeks ago at this point, is that D&D Beyond doesn't seem to be making a good case for what it's actually charging for. Is it content? Is it a tool? If it's content, why is everyone saying that I'm definitely not buying the same thing twice? If it's a tool, why are they charging per-book?
All I know is, it's not the thing I actually want, a character creator. Something that random people on the internet were able to develop and publish character creators for free. Did they have the rights? No, so call it illegal all you want, but it's proof that D&D Beyond doesn't need to charge what it does to meet costs. It's all about the profits. Which, I mean, yes, fine. Businesses make money. Just don't you try and defend them by saying that they need to do this. They don't need to do anything.
I have two questions for the people who want free digital access to all the content because they bought the physical books...
1. If 5e had been launched as a digital format first (NOT a PDF, but something like DDB), and you bought it, and then WotC released physical books, would you expect to get a physical copy for free if you'd already bought the digital version first?
2. When you buy other physical books from the bookstore (or Amazon) like a fiction novel, or non-fiction book, do you expect to get the digital (Kindle/Kobo/etc) or Audiobook versions for free?
I have been playing D&D for as long as you have or longer.
Your question one is out of context, pertaining to my questions.
The context of my question was, if a buy a digital copy of an item or a game, that is mine to do as I will with, as long as I am not copying it, reselling it or distributing it. If I want to print it out for my use I can.
If I want to use it in my various VTT's I should be able to, the way things are set up right now is ... I have to buy a copy (same format and info) for each VTT I want to use it in. That is like having to buy a printed copy for each time you get together for an in person game.
At no time did I imply that if I have a digital copy, and they print a hard copy that I feel entitled to get a copy of it. I would just need to print it out or read it off my computer, the VTT versions of the game do not allow me to download a copy or transfer it to another VTT if I let my subscription lapse.
I bought it so therefore I own it (paid extra for it on top of subscription fees).
If I buy a digital version of say a movie or PS4 game, I download that to a mem stick, I can watch that movie or play that game on any computer or PS4. I own it, even if I no longer have a PSN (play station network) account subscription.
Again in question two, out of context ... if I buy a novel and it doesn't have a digital download fine, but I can take that with me to work, a coffee shop or at home to read it. If I buy a digital copy of a novel, I can read it on my computer, my cell phone or any of my e-book readers. I do not have to buy a new version for each.
It is not a problem of buying either a hard copy or a digital copy, I have both. It is a problem of buying a seperate digital copy for each VTT, if I bought the digital copy then I should be able to download, import and export it to any VTT I have a subscription to.
If I no longer have a subscription to any particular VTT and paid extra for the books, then I should have the books on my computer. I bought the digital books, I did not rent them, hence I own the books.
Even the corporate part of the metaphor is completely misleading. The relationship between Wizards and Curse is not the repationship between competing franchises.
This is the exact metaphor being made. We're not talking about Wizards and Curse, as you did not buy the physical book from Wizards. You bought it from a local retailer.
That local retailer? Yup, it's a competing franchise to Curse. Two retailers selling the same license. This is why you don't get it for free from one because you bought it from the other. I'm glad I could help clear that up.
I mean you can use as many analogies you would like and justify these charges - the fast food references are so out of left field and completely not relatable to what the content in question is but to each their own.
On a very basic level, I totally agree; If I was a brand new player that had purchased none of these books, it's a perfectly viable option (although on a personal level I would never pay $20+ for a digital PDF). However, for existing D&D players that (like myself) play weekly with a large group of people and have all of the main manuals, I'm just completely now deterred from using this service. I'll stick to my pen and paper. The cost is absolutely not worth the service provided to simply access information that is freely available via wikis, Roll20, subreddits etc. I (maybe alone in this) but feel that casual players just want an easy to use digital character sheet, which is what I was hoping from D&D Beyond - but the cost to do that is in no way shape or form is worth the service. The 5E spellbook on the android is free and has all of this information readily available (unfortunately for me, the iOS one is dead).
I would be more than happy to pay for what has actually been created by curse/twitch, which is the character builder itself. As a flat out iOS app store purchase (5-10$) for using the builder, or a low-cost monthly subscription (2-5$). Personally, re-purchasing the content I've already bought is completely unjustifiable as the main transaction from this website. A more relatable analogy to this is I would never buy a game on steam and then buy an identical copy on a console... I would just continue to play it on Steam. I'm a little confused why that was thought to be an optimal business route? My comment about grimy was quite literally that. It's a very blatant cash-grab over the fact that there isn't an official branded market for digital D&D character builders - it's straight up taking the car salesman approach to it. If the honest goal was to provide a reliable branded "official" D&D character builder, I would be paying for that tool itself, but instead, I'm gated behind content I already own as a D&D fan and active player and given that choice.
And thats what is good about all this. You have the books and can use them going forward.
You dont miss anything. Use books and pen and paper.
And i pay for what i think is more value for me. I have the books but feel that i still can pay for the extra funktionality that DnD beyond is giving me.
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I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
The cost is absolutely not worth the service provided to simply access information that is freely available via wikis, Roll20, subreddits etc..... The 5E spellbook on the android is free and has all of this information readily available (unfortunately for me, the iOS one is dead).
Last I knew On Roll 20, you have to pay for non SRD content. If the other sources above are providing non SRD content for free, they are doing so illegally. The content of all the official D&D books is intellectual property of WOTC, and anyone else using it (Like Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and DDB) must pay licensing fees to them.
At the same time, if all you want is a character builder. If you aren't interested in the spell and monster listings with all filtering options, or the compendium, I can see how DDB would not be worth it to you. For me the cost is worth it because DDB also functions as second copies of select books for me.
I have two questions for the people who want free digital access to all the content because they bought the physical books...
1. If 5e had been launched as a digital format first (NOT a PDF, but something like DDB), and you bought it, and then WotC released physical books, would you expect to get a physical copy for free if you'd already bought the digital version first?
2. When you buy other physical books from the bookstore (or Amazon) like a fiction novel, or non-fiction book, do you expect to get the digital (Kindle/Kobo/etc) or Audiobook versions for free?
I have been playing D&D for as long as you have or longer.
Your question one is out of context, pertaining to my questions.
The context of my question was, if a buy a digital copy of an item or a game, that is mine to do as I will with, as long as I am not copying it, reselling it or distributing it. If I want to print it out for my use I can.
If I want to use it in my various VTT's I should be able to, the way things are set up right now is ... I have to buy a copy (same format and info) for each VTT I want to use it in. That is like having to buy a printed copy for each time you get together for an in person game.
At no time did I imply that if I have a digital copy, and they print a hard copy that I feel entitled to get a copy of it. I would just need to print it out or read it off my computer, the VTT versions of the game do not allow me to download a copy or transfer it to another VTT if I let my subscription lapse.
I bought it so therefore I own it (paid extra for it on top of subscription fees).
If I buy a digital version of say a movie or PS4 game, I download that to a mem stick, I can watch that movie or play that game on any computer or PS4. I own it, even if I no longer have a PSN (play station network) account subscription.
Again in question two, out of context ... if I buy a novel and it doesn't have a digital download fine, but I can take that with me to work, a coffee shop or at home to read it. If I buy a digital copy of a novel, I can read it on my computer, my cell phone or any of my e-book readers. I do not have to buy a new version for each.
It is not a problem of buying either a hard copy or a digital copy, I have both. It is a problem of buying a seperate digital copy for each VTT, if I bought the digital copy then I should be able to download, import and export it to any VTT I have a subscription to.
If I no longer have a subscription to any particular VTT and paid extra for the books, then I should have the books on my computer. I bought the digital books, I did not rent them, hence I own the books.
Soooo.... what your saying is you want to pay a single cost and have it available on three different independent companies products? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Before DDB, could you freely export and import between FG and Roll20 or did you have to buy it on each? why would it be different now that DDB is around? WOTC is still just a publisher, they are not a retailer. They have no digital product to do this with. I stated this before and now you are asking WOTC, to become a digital retailer and compete against these third parties that have licensing agreements. By the same token, if you have Amazon prime, why would i need a Twitch paid account since Amazon owns Twitch?
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
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Adding via homebrew is just copying from the book once, and then you never have to do it again.
But correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that the data entry is tedious and not worth your time for free? But you want free access to that same data entry work that someone else has already done?
Hmmm.
So... I own physical copies of PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual for 5e. My group and I moved to 5e and threw all my eggs in the DnDBeyond.com basket. Not a single regret to this day. I got the Legendary Bundle (currently have access to every official piece of 5e content). picked up 2 Master Subs (second one on a second twitch account). Now I'm sharing all the official content across 6 campaigns I play in (DMing two). That's 31 (active) characters and 5 DMs, total unique individuals is 30. So that's 30 unique people who have access to all WotC official D&D content for the price of each digital book (properly digitized which is way better than just PDF). Legendary bundle offered discounts as well for a total of $337.20 USD for content and $110/yr USD for the two Master subs. Totally worth it in my opinion given a physical Player's Handbook from Amazon.com is $40 (if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber). So just the cost of each Player getting a PHB is = 30 players * $40 = $1200 USD (which is exactly what'd you need if anyone could look up any PHB content at any time via DnDBeyond.com). + Here's the big thing, it's made it easy for new people to play. I paid once, and now new people are welcome and don't have to worry about buying anything (except their dice :P for the in person games). It's the new Golden Age of D&D in my opinion. Whatever I can do to get more people to play the better!
And yes, if we all stole PDFs of these books we all could play for free. Now full disclosure, a few people did buy their own PHB or DMG or Monster Manual in the groups I play in. So yes that's sunk cost that could be recovered by selling their books back (they won't and neither will I).
I presented real math. Not imagined so far.
Even for a single group, the DnDBeyond.com pricing math isn't bad. And that's how we have to look at DnDBeyond.com as a resource for a group/campaign. The individual math for a single person is "meh".
And my 2 Master Subs. I see it as investment into the product for the long-haul. There are exciting new things coming out on a regular basis. Those cost money to make. My expectation is not for anyone to do so for free.
My only feedback. When Critical Role Campaign 2 started a code was given for discount on a purchase. I have nothing to buy (already got it all). If you can make a way for me to claim the coupon and use it when purchasable content becomes available that would be great.
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
I have several questions to be honest (maybe beyond scope of this site).
I have twitch prime (not free), which I use to sign in here and to be able to use the free features, yet I have to pay a subscription fee to get full content here.
I also have Roll20 subscription (paid) and a fantasy grounds subscription (paid), both these subscriptions are at the highest tier.
I have the hard copies of the D&D books, yet I still have to pay for the digital copies to be able to use on the sites, not just one site, but a different copy for each one. This has cost me several hundreds of dollars, to get them on one site.
The copies I buy online are non-downloadable and can not be used on all sites, this is just crazy in my opinion. With fantasy grounds, I bought a lifetime subscription and the complete packages, and recieved them as a download and a program.
With this site and the roll20 site, I have to pay for the subscription, then I have to buy the books and packages (full price like buying them from a hard copy from a store).
Yet I do not get to keep them, if I do not pay my subscription, if you cancel the subscription, I lose the books and packages I paid additional retail price for.
Shouldn't the books and packages be included in the subscription, since you take them away, even if we bought them as an additional retail price?
If we pay for the books, do we not own them or are we just renting them???
I do not know what your licensing arrangements with WOC are, but for some reason this just seems to be wrong.
Please leave this post up, as I would like to read the feedback and maybe have you explain this to me.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
@Istafar
The books and packages are not connected to subscriptions here in any way. Subscriptions are optional to gain additional benefits like campaign sharing, or having more character storage space. You can buy the books and not buy any subscription.
Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and D&D Beyond are all separate entities. The money you paid Roll20 for your subscription and any content does not go to Curse, who have developed this tool. The money you paid for your physical book goes to WOTC, not to Curse, who have developed this tool. The money you gave to Fantasy Grounds-- Well, you get the idea. Curse is a separate entity.
You are able to enter in any of the content from your books as Homebrew if you prefer not to buy it from DDB (except for Subclasses, but that is going to be coming to DDB in the near future), as long as you don't try to publish it.
Right, but the difference is that the person doing data entry for thousands is doing that as their job. Meaning someone is paying them to do it. Which means money has to come in to pay them with. Which means they have to charge for the product.
Meanwhile, your data entry may be time consuming, but you did it once and it's done for as many characters as you want to make with that feature for as long as the site exists. With physical sheets, you have to write it down every time you make a new character. Also, private homebrew can be shared within a campaign, meaning you don't even have to do all of the work. If your friend in your campaign enters a spell, you can add it to your character as well. Your DM doesn't have to sit down and enter the entire Monsters Manual. They just enter monsters as they need for the upcoming session, and then if those monsters come back, the work is already done (if they even care to do that).
Again, trying to keep this in the realm of polite conversation, but at this point it seems like you're being argumentative for the sake of such. Are you sure you weren't just miffed about not getting this for free/discounted on the front end and now no matter any attempt to compromise, it can do no right? If it's that vile of a product in your opinion, why are you even still here? You've made your case that you are unhappy with the pricing model. The people who work at Curse have seen it. If you made good points, they noted them. All the rest of us are trying to do is find a way for you to still find use of the service. If that is impossible, have a nice day!
Is it only the mobile app that allows me to download my personal files and purchased products, or can I download them and save them on my computer?
Is the stuff I purchase and create here compatible with my other virtual game subscription (as mentioned), ie: can I use my maps, characters and campaigns on the other sites.
Some people might like to play on DDB, Roll20, FG or steam sites. I play on all of them.
There has been talk of potential cross-functionality with VTT services, but that has not been implemented yet. Maps can be saved though. I save the high-res player maps from here and upload them to roll20 to project on my table TV.
Inexperienced might be the best way to describe it. WotC released 5e with no digital plan in place, after the failures of previous attempts at digital content. They knew what they didn't want to do, which were PDF files, so they opted to do nothing and focus on the primary physical product.
BadEye had the idea to develop a toolset, and Curse pitched the digital toolset to WotC in 2017, and WotC liked it and decided to sell them a license and allow them to proceed in a similar fashion to the way VTTs have been licensing the content. This was not a plan by WotC all along. That may be the disconnect many people are having.
So there may be more cohesion between physical and digital in 6e (which is supposed to be backwards compatible with 5e, although there's no clear answer on what that means just yet). That remains to be seen. But I would not expect any form of PDF, as this seems to be a hard line that WotC is unwilling to cross from all indications.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just saying how things seem to be.
I have two questions for the people who want free digital access to all the content because they bought the physical books...
1. If 5e had been launched as a digital format first (NOT a PDF, but something like DDB), and you bought it, and then WotC released physical books, would you expect to get a physical copy for free if you'd already bought the digital version first?
2. When you buy other physical books from the bookstore (or Amazon) like a fiction novel, or non-fiction book, do you expect to get the digital (Kindle/Kobo/etc) or Audiobook versions for free?
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Okay, yes, someone is paying them to do it. How long do you think it would take to enter a race into the database? Let's just round up to an hour. I can't imagine any race is going to be more than an hour. Let's assume the person doing data entry is exceptionally well-paid and makes $30 an hour. And then let's assume it takes a team of three QA people that are also very well-paid, making $30 an hour each, an hour to make sure it's right. So that's a cost of $120 for that race, which costs $3 per user. At forty people you've made back your costs. Everything after that is just free money. At thousands of users, paying for the cost of the development is trivial. The money isn't 'needed' to fund development, it's desired because a business exists to make the most money possible.
Once per character that uses the feature- outside of spells and feats, this isn't helpful. I almost never make characters with overlapping classes or races. (Admittedly this may be a me-specific issue.)
Shared homebrew- A feature that I can only take advantage of when everyone else is already on the platform. Of the couple dozen of people I play RPGs with, no one uses D&D Beyond.
Monsters as they need- well, now you're discussing a world where digital tools are on the table, as opposed to using a tool to fill out a physical sheet. In that case, I'd probably just save the stat block as a txt file rather than use a third party platform that's, at this point, a glorified Dropbox.
I mean you can use as many analogies you would like and justify these charges - the fast food references are so out of left field and completely not relatable to what the content in question is but to each their own.
On a very basic level, I totally agree; If I was a brand new player that had purchased none of these books, it's a perfectly viable option (although on a personal level I would never pay $20+ for a digital PDF). However, for existing D&D players that (like myself) play weekly with a large group of people and have all of the main manuals, I'm just completely now deterred from using this service. I'll stick to my pen and paper. The cost is absolutely not worth the service provided to simply access information that is freely available via wikis, Roll20, subreddits etc. I (maybe alone in this) but feel that casual players just want an easy to use digital character sheet, which is what I was hoping from D&D Beyond - but the cost to do that is in no way shape or form is worth the service. The 5E spellbook on the android is free and has all of this information readily available (unfortunately for me, the iOS one is dead).
I would be more than happy to pay for what has actually been created by curse/twitch, which is the character builder itself. As a flat out iOS app store purchase (5-10$) for using the builder, or a low-cost monthly subscription (2-5$). Personally, re-purchasing the content I've already bought is completely unjustifiable as the main transaction from this website. A more relatable analogy to this is I would never buy a game on steam and then buy an identical copy on a console... I would just continue to play it on Steam. I'm a little confused why that was thought to be an optimal business route? My comment about grimy was quite literally that. It's a very blatant cash-grab over the fact that there isn't an official branded market for digital D&D character builders - it's straight up taking the car salesman approach to it. If the honest goal was to provide a reliable branded "official" D&D character builder, I would be paying for that tool itself, but instead, I'm gated behind content I already own as a D&D fan and active player and given that choice.
@Kaeja
And thats what is good about all this. You have the books and can use them going forward.
You dont miss anything. Use books and pen and paper.
And i pay for what i think is more value for me. I have the books but feel that i still can pay for the extra funktionality that DnD beyond is giving me.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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D&D Beyond FoundersOk folks, we currently have two nearly identical discussions going on here.
The topic of this thread is Pricing and Purchase (FAQ) and you are welcome to discuss or ask questions relating to that in this thread.
If you wish to continue to discuss the topic of digital vs physical, I suggest moving the discussion to this thread:
D&D Beyond vs Physical Books: An Explanation
Continued off-topic posts may well be consolidated to the correct threads by moderators.
Many thanks
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
By the same token, if you have Amazon prime, why would i need a Twitch paid account since Amazon owns Twitch?
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.