I want to point out that this is 100% untrue. Private homebrew is sharable within a campaign, without a subscription.
Umm, no it isn't. Someone has to have a Master Tier subscription and has to enable Content Sharing. Also, whether you've got Content Sharing on or a subscription or not, you still can't share private monster homebrew.
Are you sure about that? The subscription information page only mentions "use public homebrew content from others" as a thing which paid subscriptions do have a check-mark for and the "free tier" doesn't.
Maybe I rolled a 3 on my investigation check, but I have a few questions. As a tool for building characters on the fly, D&D Beyond is on target.
However, as someone who already owns the core books and some adventures in their glorious hard cover editions. In order to use the service in its complete form, I would have purchase what I already own. Have you or are you going to switch to a “ecampus” platform attached to subscriptions?
I am trying to find the value for the service, and like I said other than the quick look up, I am not finding a justification for the amount of money I spent on a yearly subscription.
I am only finding buy this or that in order to access a quick look up, or create unlimited characters. I can do both by using excel or and a simple pdf file. Help me out here, why should I continue to use your service?
D&D Beyond is owned by Curse, which is owned by Twitch, which is owned by Amazon.
D&D Beyond (aka Curse/Twitch/Amazon) did not sell you the physical books - Wizards of the Coast did.
D&D Beyond (aka Curse/Twitch/Amazon) has to pay a licencing fee to WotC for the rights to resell their content in a new format (this web site), just like all the other legitimate web sites like Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds.
To those of you suggesting that Amazon could offer a code/bundle if the hardcopies are purchased through the Amazon site... that doesn't help anyone who buys the books from Brick & Mortar book stores, or FLGSs, which is the exact reason WotC would never allow the license to be used that way.
Consider that while Amazon sells the books cheaper than an FLGS, the FLGSs get to sell the books sooner than Amazon. The difference is often up to two weeks between availability in-store and shipping from Amazon. If you've ever wondered why this is, it's because WotC go out of their way to help protect FLGSs and brick & mortar book stores. The IRL stores are already mad about how cheap the books go for on Amazon. The embargo on shipping is the olive branch extended by WotC to keep IRL stores happy.
Now, imagine what would happen if you could buy a hardcopy from Amazon cheaper than in store, and get a "digital" version on DDB for free, or sharply discounted? The FLGSs and brick & mortar book stores would flip their $%@#, since they can't offer the same deal. It would hurt their sales dramatically.
Also, Amazon doesn't own Fanatasy Grounds or Roll 20, so buying the book at Amazon would NOT give you a discount/free copy on those sites. Why aren't you raging about that? If WotC allowed one licenced partner to do something the others can't do, those other partners would likely either sue WotC, or drop the licence, meaning fewer places for WotC to sell their product.
As for not losing physical copies, guess what.. stuff happens that not anyone can account for. Unless you're locking your entire hardcover collection in a fire-proof safe, they are not guaranteed to survive life.
As for an offline copy of the online version... there is an app. It's in Beta. It's getting better all the time.
Several other posters have stated similar positions as mine in regards to paying for the service. In my case, what I want is a robust Character Creation tool that allows me to do things like add images, easily incorporate my own homebrew ideas into created characters, and preferably tells me where to look for specifics on chosen spells, features ect. I am willing to pay a modest fee for continuing access to such a platform.
What I don't want or need is for that Character Builder to contain the entire contents of every book in the system as an excuse to force consumers to pay outrageous amounts for even basic functionality. If the service had digital copies of the books as an actual optional ADD-ON, and instead simply gave book names and page numbers for where to find the details and descriptions inside the Character Builder, and charged the subscription fee for continuing access to the fully functional Builder itself, its storage functions, convenience ect, THAT would be worth the monthly fee for people like me, and still allow those who wanted the full digital versions of the material to get it. Wizards had a similar structure to this with its DnD Insider subscription for 4E which included access to a fully functional Character Builder.
As it stands now, the Character Builder, which is what I would be willing to pay to access, is entirely useless to anyone wanting to create characters without ridiculous expense with or without the current subscription fees. Expecting someone who already owns the books to pay up to 350$ in order to be able to create usable characters with all the options available in products they already own because its not even currently possible to manually add in Subclasses and their features on ones own is not in any way worth the money for anyone who already owns the material. Its a cash grab plain and simple. Make purchasing access to the full material in the source-books entirely separate from the Character Builder and entirely optional to its full character creation functionality and then charge a reasonable subscription fee for the Builder and other site services other than full access to the digital books and you will have my money. Until then its a simple cost benefit fail. The convenience of the offered services is simply not worth the massive required cost. And unless and until I can manually enter subclasses it IS a required cost not an optional one no matter how you phrase it.
Several other posters have stated similar positions as mine in regards to paying for the service. In my case, what I want is a robust Character Creation tool that allows me to do things like add images, easily incorporate my own homebrew ideas into created characters, and preferably tells me where to look for specifics on chosen spells, features ect. I am willing to pay a modest fee for continuing access to such a platform.
What I don't want or need is for that Character Builder to contain the entire contents of every book in the system as an excuse to force consumers to pay outrageous amounts for even basic functionality. If the service had digital copies of the books as an actual optional ADD-ON, and instead simply gave book names and page numbers for where to find the details and descriptions inside the Character Builder, and charged the subscription fee for continuing access to the fully functional Builder itself, its storage functions, convenience ect, THAT would be worth the monthly fee for people like me, and still allow those who wanted the full digital versions of the material to get it. Wizards had a similar structure to this with its DnD Insider subscription for 4E which included access to a fully functional Character Builder.
As it stands now, the Character Builder, which is what I would be willing to pay to access, is entirely useless to anyone wanting to create characters without ridiculous expense with or without the current subscription fees. Expecting someone who already owns the books to pay up to 350$ in order to be able to create usable characters with all the options available in products they already own because its not even currently possible to manually add in Subclasses and their features on ones own is not in any way worth the money for anyone who already owns the material. Its a cash grab plain and simple. Make purchasing access to the full material in the source-books entirely separate from the Character Builder and entirely optional to its full character creation functionality and then charge a reasonable subscription fee for the Builder and other site services other than full access to the digital books and you will have my money. Until then its a simple cost benefit fail. The convenience of the offered services is simply not worth the massive required cost. And unless and until I can manually enter subclasses it IS a required cost not an optional one no matter how you phrase it.
I want to ask a genuine question (no hard feelings):
Why should WotC (or retailers of WotC products) allow digital users to buy character-relevant content with a friendly price, while hardcover-only users must buy the whole set of books?
If one allows digital character-relevant content to be bought at a friendly price, that means the end of hardcovers because it sets a huge difference in cost for two type of customers.
Nightbladez, you don't have to buy all the books, neither do you need a subscription, to accomplish what you want.
You can buy just the components you want to build your character, ie, the race, class, feats, etc...
As you buy each small thing, what you paid goes towards the total cost of the whole book, so once you have bought enough smaller items from within a book to equal the cost of the whole book, you will have unlocked the whole book.
Also... there is a new character sheet coming that will allow you to ad feats, etc ad hoc.
Also, also... you can re-create any feat, spell, class ability, etc from the "legitimate" books as a private homebrew item which you can then use on your character. No purchase required.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
As it stands now, the Character Builder, which is what I would be willing to pay to access, is entirely useless to anyone wanting to create characters without ridiculous expense with or without the current subscription fees. Expecting someone who already owns the books to pay up to 350$ in order to be able to create usable characters with all the options available in products they already own because its not even currently possible to manually add in Subclasses and their features on ones own is not in any way worth the money for anyone who already owns the material. Its a cash grab plain and simple. Make purchasing access to the full material in the source-books entirely separate from the Character Builder and entirely optional to its full character creation functionality and then charge a reasonable subscription fee for the Builder and other site services other than full access to the digital books and you will have my money. Until then its a simple cost benefit fail. The convenience of the offered services is simply not worth the massive required cost. And unless and until I can manually enter subclasses it IS a required cost not an optional one no matter how you phrase it.
This is completely disingenuous. The players handbook costs $30. Xanathar's guide costs $30. Together they comprise about 95% of the character building options... for $60, which is nowhere near the $360 you quoted.
You say it's a cost/benefit fail, so lets do an actual cost/benefit analysis.
How much would you be willing to pay for a subscription for a JUST fully-functional character builder? $10/month? The great majority of people who are complaining about the upfront cost would agree to this, I think. Lets compare that to how much it would cost to buy just the character options from D&D Beyond:
PHB: $30
Volos: $13 for races and subraces
SCAG: $24 for Races, subraces, feats and spells
Xanathars: $26 for player options
DMG: $16 for Magic items and 2 subclasses
Tortle Package: $10
A total of $119, and that's if you want ALL the character options available. There's lots of minor things you can remove if you don't need to further reduce the cost.
How long do you think you'll play D&D and want access to the character builder? For argument's sake, lets say 3 years.
So under your 'modest' subscription, you'd be paying $360 over that time ($10/mo. for 36 months) Paying upfront costs you AT MOST $120, plus the costs for future content, (let's say is $30/year for the full content book, but in reality is probably closer to $24), for a total of $210 for the 3 years.
Then, after 3 years, you stop paying. From that point on, you have ZERO value from the subscription, Nothing to show for the $360 you've already spent. With the purchase model, you get to continue to use the content you've purchased for as long as D&D Beyond exists (and, if the fact that 4e's D&D Insider is still working, it stands to reason that this could be quite a while).
So here's what you get for your money under the two options:
$360 for 3 years' use of the Fully featured D&D Character builder.
$210 for 3 years' use of the Fully featured D&D Character builder, plus future use of content you've purchased.
Now, I'll admit, if you only intend to play D&D for 6 months, then a subscription makes sense, but if that's the case you don't need to purchase EVERYTHING anyway.
So really what you're saying is "Curse, you're charging too much for D&D Beyond. As an alternative, I propose I give you more money than you're currently asking, for less value in return."
I think we need a new pricing FAQ thread pinned to the top of EVERY forum here that includes all of the responses we have made in this thread to all of the "arguments" made by the people who come here just to complain about the price, like explaining the difference between DDB and WotC, and (like LtDarien said above) how a subscription model really stacks up against buying the books, or just the options you want.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If I thought for a moment that it would make a difference, I would push for that.
I don't think it would though - the majority of the pricing complaints posted here seem to be from people who have formed their opinion prior to actually visiting D&D Beyond.
Maybe I rolled a 3 on my investigation check, but I have a few questions. As a tool for building characters on the fly, D&D Beyond is on target.
Alright, so as someone who is sympathetic to your plight but has since come around in a big way, I'll try to address your concerns. I'm sure others will chime in as well, and this very thread is going to be a good resource for you as well. Note, however, that there is a lot of arguing in circles.
However, as someone who already owns the core books and some adventures in their glorious hard cover editions. In order to use the service in its complete form, I would have purchase what I already own. Have you or are you going to switch to a “ecampus” platform attached to subscriptions?
I would love to see some kind of synergy between physical books and DDB content, even if it's just a slight discount or something. However, at this time, this model is not in place and there have been no indications that DDB is moving in that direction. Maybe in the future, who knows, but for right now I think it's best to think of the physical books and DDB as two separate products that happen to share some content. I think it's valuable to think of it this way for a number of reasons, whether or not the intent of DDB is to "replace" physical books etc. First, it's a good way to determine the value of each: what are physical books good for? What can they do that DDB cannot? And how does DDB make my game easier? What does using this service get that I can't get from the physical books? I've actually gotten to the point where I'll buy content on DDB first, since it's most useful to me here, and if I feel it's necessary to get the book (whether due to utility DDB doesn't offer, or because it looks pretty on my bookshelf) then I'll get that later. Second, it's a way to remind yourself that the content in the books and on DDB is actually different, at least if you buy the full versions that include integration into the digital toolset. If all you're looking for are digital books that you can search, the compendium versions are discounted considerably from MSRP and then some from what you'd pay on Amazon, Fantasy Grounds, etc.
I am trying to find the value for the service, and like I said other than the quick look up, I am not finding a justification for the amount of money I spent on a yearly subscription.
I am only finding buy this or that in order to access a quick look up, or create unlimited characters. I can do both by using excel or and a simple pdf file. Help me out here, why should I continue to use your service?
DDB is much more than the ability to look things up quickly. That's part of it, yes, but if that's all you need, you can get the compendium content as I described above. DDB is a fully functional digital toolset that includes not just the ability to search, but thorough indexing and hotlinking, full integration with the character builder, and the ability to fairly easily create and share homebrew content with more tools coming soon, like an encounter builder, campaign management tools, and more. And if those tools aren't enough for you, there are a number of community-created browser extensions that increase DDB's functionality further, including dice rollers and initiative trackers. And maybe best of all, DDB users seem to have access to the dev team in a way that feels really rare. Those of us who've been around for a while have seen the devs take in user advice and implement it time and time again, which I feel like you don't see very often with a lot of digital services. And there are monthly livestreams to keep everyone updated and give users the chance to ask questions and even make suggestions. Along with that, there's a community here--people who can answer your questions, give you tips on an encounter you've been building, discuss the strengths and flaws of your homebrew creations, and so on. I've found it's one of the least toxic D&D communities on the internet and I'm happy to consider myself a part of it.
And most of those things you can do to some degree or other without spending a penny. The character builder is free. The SRD, which contains most of the character options, monsters, and items you'll ever need, is fully indexed and integrated and it's totally free. If that's not enough, you can use private homebrew to add content from those glorious hardcovers you already own if you don't want to spend the money to purchase the content on DDB. And if you don't feel like building that stuff yourself, you can purchase it piecemeal for what seem to me to be fairly reasonable prices--and best yet, whatever you pay for that content comes off the cost of buying the book it's from, so you'll never pay "more" by buying things one at a time than you would buying the content all at once. If only iTunes worked that way!
But you're right. Maybe you don't need all that. And if you don't, that's okay. I'm not going to argue with you whether you should or shouldn't use DDB, only discuss what I see as the benefits of using it, why I don't feel that it's unfair to have to purchase the content "again," and how it's fully functional without spending any money. Only you can decide whether it's a good fit for you. Maybe your excel sheet and PDF really are all you need. That's fine. But I'd invite you to spend some more time exploring DDB and see if it's something that could not just fit into your routine, but maybe even challenge or change the way you approach the game.
I think we need a new pricing FAQ thread pinned to the top of EVERY forum here that includes all of the responses we have made in this thread to all of the "arguments" made by the people who come here just to complain about the price, like explaining the difference between DDB and WotC, and (like LtDarien said above) how a subscription model really stacks up against buying the books, or just the options you want.
I agree with Stormknight. I have seen so many posts here and on FB that show people just are not even looking at what DDB is before jumping on the "i want it free" bandwagon.
for disclosure, i have to admit I was that way too at first once i seen other people discussing it, then someone politely explained that Curse/DDB is a completely different company and product even though it is the same content. I was sold and now have the legendary bundle and master tier for a year.
fuller disclosure, i also own almost all the physical 5e products.
I've tried searching the forums for the answer to this but couldn't find anything. Is it possible, or perhaps being considered, to allow the purchase of character slots instead of requiring a subscription?
The only method available to increase the number of character slots is through the hero or master tier subscriptions which give you unlimited slots. Free accounts are limited to six characters. That idea has been proposed but I don't know if it has gone anywhere.
Well, I bought the PHB (again) so I could use it with DDB. And then I bought XGTE, but refused to buy it twice so sucks for the gaming store. Then I built my character. The builder itself was fine, if a bit excessive for someone who just wants to quickly throw a character together. And then I went to print the PDF so I could actually use the character at my next game. Oh wow, it sucked.
So I'm left with a basically unusable character sheet that I payed $60 for.
"But DNDB is meant to be used online!"
Well I don't play online. I need a usable printable sheet.
"DNDB is more than a character builder! The character builder is just a tiny part!"
Great. I like the online look-up of information. But the major part I wanted was the character builder.
"It's gonna be totally fixed soon!"
I first heard that last November...
"Maybe DNDB isn't for you!"
Well I guess that might be right, but it's hardly constructive. It's true that I will never spend another dollar on DNDB without some vast changes. If Curse thinks they can basically get by with their current set of whales, great. The general sentiment at conventions, stores and other forums seems to be one of "DNDB was a huge disappointment"
"Curse is a different company than WOTC"
Yes, but Curse is the company WOTC contracted to build the tools for their product. Both Curse and WOTC entered into whatever agreement they entered into without being forced. WOTC could have easily looked around the community at the tools built by fans and contracted them to expand those tools. Instead they decided to shut down those tools and funnel money into a company that has never worked with D&D before. Forgive me if 'We are different companies' rings a bit hollow.
So I'll continue to lurk in the forums and make sure the counter-point is heard.
Thank you, Jexthomas. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. When I use a new service or product the Business Analyst side of me, which has been drilled in to my psyche for decades, comes out and I tend to look at everything.
In comparison to Digital and Physical, for some reason everything I own related to the Wizard of the Coast was purchased at my local game store, yet everything I own from Paizo was purchased via a download from their direct site.
My focus was ease of use at the time of purchase. However, I think the D&D purchase was more of a call back to playing the 2 version of the basic set when it first entered the market.
I will continue to roll my investigation rolls. There is more to know.
Yeah, the PDF is lacking for sure. They are promising an update for that. I know you are tired of hearing that, but we are seeing previews of it in the livestream Q&As (one this Friday with hopefully more news). The last word was that updates would be out Q1 (the end of this month), but apparently infrastructure updates have caused another delay, but I do believe we are nearing the light at the end of the tunnel. I would guess by next month at the latest, based on the clues that have been presented.
All I can tell you is that PDFs were never part of the original vision, and they were added quickly due to customer demand. The version we were given was a placeholder, but the devs themselves have stated how unhappy they are with the current export. I'm not saying you're foolish for buying into something primarily for a placeholder function, as they probably could do a better job of advertising that fact (I know it because I've lurked these forums since the beta launch, and was one of the ones clamoring for an export).
It's a little bit more work, but when I needed a paper copy, I just ran the export (which is a form-fillable PDF), and then copy and pasted sections I needed from the digital sheet onto the PDF. It may be of little comfort to you now, but I have faith that the new one is coming soon and it will be satisfactory. The previews of the new digital sheet look FAR superior, so I'm sure that attention to design will extend to the entire product.
Well, I bought the PHB (again) so I could use it with DDB. And then I bought XGTE, but refused to buy it twice so sucks for the gaming store. Then I built my character. The builder itself was fine, if a bit excessive for someone who just wants to quickly throw a character together. And then I went to print the PDF so I could actually use the character at my next game. Oh wow, it sucked.
So I'm left with a basically unusable character sheet that I payed $60 for.
"But DNDB is meant to be used online!"
Well I don't play online. I need a usable printable sheet.
"DNDB is more than a character builder! The character builder is just a tiny part!"
Great. I like the online look-up of information. But the major part I wanted was the character builder.
"It's gonna be totally fixed soon!"
I first heard that last November...
"Maybe DNDB isn't for you!"
Well I guess that might be right, but it's hardly constructive. It's true that I will never spend another dollar on DNDB without some vast changes. If Curse thinks they can basically get by with their current set of whales, great. The general sentiment at conventions, stores and other forums seems to be one of "DNDB was a huge disappointment"
"Curse is a different company than WOTC"
Yes, but Curse is the company WOTC contracted to build the tools for their product. Both Curse and WOTC entered into whatever agreement they entered into without being forced. WOTC could have easily looked around the community at the tools built by fans and contracted them to expand those tools. Instead they decided to shut down those tools and funnel money into a company that has never worked with D&D before. Forgive me if 'We are different companies' rings a bit hollow.
So I'll continue to lurk in the forums and whenever the self-righteous apologetics annoy me too much, I'll make sure the counter-point is heard.
There is a character sheet revamp coming that will fix the issues with the PDF and add many features to it. The staff are very aware that the PDF doesn't function or look well, and are working to correct it.
To add to Adventure Flight's comment - it was released half baked because the community said they'd rather having something half baked now, than have to wait for something good later. So you're right, it's not good, but it was responsive to community requests.
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I'd like to jump in here to confirm exactly how this works and I have just tested this to confirm.
You do NOT need a subscription to be able to share your own homebrew content within a campaign.
Also, content sharing does NOT need to be switched on for a campaign to allow people to share their private homebrew.
You will find however that you cannot share homebrew that you have added from the public homebrew, unless content sharing is enabled for the campaign.
You also need to have "homebrew content" enabled on your character.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
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Maybe I rolled a 3 on my investigation check, but I have a few questions. As a tool for building characters on the fly, D&D Beyond is on target.
However, as someone who already owns the core books and some adventures in their glorious hard cover editions. In order to use the service in its complete form, I would have purchase what I already own. Have you or are you going to switch to a “ecampus” platform attached to subscriptions?
I am trying to find the value for the service, and like I said other than the quick look up, I am not finding a justification for the amount of money I spent on a yearly subscription.
I am only finding buy this or that in order to access a quick look up, or create unlimited characters. I can do both by using excel or and a simple pdf file. Help me out here, why should I continue to use your service?
Thanks,
(sigh).
To those of you suggesting that Amazon could offer a code/bundle if the hardcopies are purchased through the Amazon site... that doesn't help anyone who buys the books from Brick & Mortar book stores, or FLGSs, which is the exact reason WotC would never allow the license to be used that way.
Consider that while Amazon sells the books cheaper than an FLGS, the FLGSs get to sell the books sooner than Amazon. The difference is often up to two weeks between availability in-store and shipping from Amazon. If you've ever wondered why this is, it's because WotC go out of their way to help protect FLGSs and brick & mortar book stores. The IRL stores are already mad about how cheap the books go for on Amazon. The embargo on shipping is the olive branch extended by WotC to keep IRL stores happy.
Now, imagine what would happen if you could buy a hardcopy from Amazon cheaper than in store, and get a "digital" version on DDB for free, or sharply discounted? The FLGSs and brick & mortar book stores would flip their $%@#, since they can't offer the same deal. It would hurt their sales dramatically.
Also, Amazon doesn't own Fanatasy Grounds or Roll 20, so buying the book at Amazon would NOT give you a discount/free copy on those sites. Why aren't you raging about that? If WotC allowed one licenced partner to do something the others can't do, those other partners would likely either sue WotC, or drop the licence, meaning fewer places for WotC to sell their product.
As for not losing physical copies, guess what.. stuff happens that not anyone can account for. Unless you're locking your entire hardcover collection in a fire-proof safe, they are not guaranteed to survive life.
As for an offline copy of the online version... there is an app. It's in Beta. It's getting better all the time.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Several other posters have stated similar positions as mine in regards to paying for the service. In my case, what I want is a robust Character Creation tool that allows me to do things like add images, easily incorporate my own homebrew ideas into created characters, and preferably tells me where to look for specifics on chosen spells, features ect. I am willing to pay a modest fee for continuing access to such a platform.
What I don't want or need is for that Character Builder to contain the entire contents of every book in the system as an excuse to force consumers to pay outrageous amounts for even basic functionality. If the service had digital copies of the books as an actual optional ADD-ON, and instead simply gave book names and page numbers for where to find the details and descriptions inside the Character Builder, and charged the subscription fee for continuing access to the fully functional Builder itself, its storage functions, convenience ect, THAT would be worth the monthly fee for people like me, and still allow those who wanted the full digital versions of the material to get it. Wizards had a similar structure to this with its DnD Insider subscription for 4E which included access to a fully functional Character Builder.
As it stands now, the Character Builder, which is what I would be willing to pay to access, is entirely useless to anyone wanting to create characters without ridiculous expense with or without the current subscription fees. Expecting someone who already owns the books to pay up to 350$ in order to be able to create usable characters with all the options available in products they already own because its not even currently possible to manually add in Subclasses and their features on ones own is not in any way worth the money for anyone who already owns the material. Its a cash grab plain and simple. Make purchasing access to the full material in the source-books entirely separate from the Character Builder and entirely optional to its full character creation functionality and then charge a reasonable subscription fee for the Builder and other site services other than full access to the digital books and you will have my money. Until then its a simple cost benefit fail. The convenience of the offered services is simply not worth the massive required cost. And unless and until I can manually enter subclasses it IS a required cost not an optional one no matter how you phrase it.
Nightbladez, you don't have to buy all the books, neither do you need a subscription, to accomplish what you want.
You can buy just the components you want to build your character, ie, the race, class, feats, etc...
As you buy each small thing, what you paid goes towards the total cost of the whole book, so once you have bought enough smaller items from within a book to equal the cost of the whole book, you will have unlocked the whole book.
Also... there is a new character sheet coming that will allow you to ad feats, etc ad hoc.
Also, also... you can re-create any feat, spell, class ability, etc from the "legitimate" books as a private homebrew item which you can then use on your character. No purchase required.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
How much would you be willing to pay for a subscription for a JUST fully-functional character builder? $10/month? The great majority of people who are complaining about the upfront cost would agree to this, I think. Lets compare that to how much it would cost to buy just the character options from D&D Beyond:
A total of $119, and that's if you want ALL the character options available. There's lots of minor things you can remove if you don't need to further reduce the cost.
How long do you think you'll play D&D and want access to the character builder? For argument's sake, lets say 3 years.
So under your 'modest' subscription, you'd be paying $360 over that time ($10/mo. for 36 months) Paying upfront costs you AT MOST $120, plus the costs for future content, (let's say is $30/year for the full content book, but in reality is probably closer to $24), for a total of $210 for the 3 years.
Then, after 3 years, you stop paying. From that point on, you have ZERO value from the subscription, Nothing to show for the $360 you've already spent. With the purchase model, you get to continue to use the content you've purchased for as long as D&D Beyond exists (and, if the fact that 4e's D&D Insider is still working, it stands to reason that this could be quite a while).
So here's what you get for your money under the two options:
Now, I'll admit, if you only intend to play D&D for 6 months, then a subscription makes sense, but if that's the case you don't need to purchase EVERYTHING anyway.
So really what you're saying is "Curse, you're charging too much for D&D Beyond. As an alternative, I propose I give you more money than you're currently asking, for less value in return."
I think we need a new pricing FAQ thread pinned to the top of EVERY forum here that includes all of the responses we have made in this thread to all of the "arguments" made by the people who come here just to complain about the price, like explaining the difference between DDB and WotC, and (like LtDarien said above) how a subscription model really stacks up against buying the books, or just the options you want.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
If I thought for a moment that it would make a difference, I would push for that.
I don't think it would though - the majority of the pricing complaints posted here seem to be from people who have formed their opinion prior to actually visiting D&D Beyond.
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Alright, so as someone who is sympathetic to your plight but has since come around in a big way, I'll try to address your concerns. I'm sure others will chime in as well, and this very thread is going to be a good resource for you as well. Note, however, that there is a lot of arguing in circles.
I would love to see some kind of synergy between physical books and DDB content, even if it's just a slight discount or something. However, at this time, this model is not in place and there have been no indications that DDB is moving in that direction. Maybe in the future, who knows, but for right now I think it's best to think of the physical books and DDB as two separate products that happen to share some content. I think it's valuable to think of it this way for a number of reasons, whether or not the intent of DDB is to "replace" physical books etc. First, it's a good way to determine the value of each: what are physical books good for? What can they do that DDB cannot? And how does DDB make my game easier? What does using this service get that I can't get from the physical books? I've actually gotten to the point where I'll buy content on DDB first, since it's most useful to me here, and if I feel it's necessary to get the book (whether due to utility DDB doesn't offer, or because it looks pretty on my bookshelf) then I'll get that later. Second, it's a way to remind yourself that the content in the books and on DDB is actually different, at least if you buy the full versions that include integration into the digital toolset. If all you're looking for are digital books that you can search, the compendium versions are discounted considerably from MSRP and then some from what you'd pay on Amazon, Fantasy Grounds, etc.
DDB is much more than the ability to look things up quickly. That's part of it, yes, but if that's all you need, you can get the compendium content as I described above. DDB is a fully functional digital toolset that includes not just the ability to search, but thorough indexing and hotlinking, full integration with the character builder, and the ability to fairly easily create and share homebrew content with more tools coming soon, like an encounter builder, campaign management tools, and more. And if those tools aren't enough for you, there are a number of community-created browser extensions that increase DDB's functionality further, including dice rollers and initiative trackers. And maybe best of all, DDB users seem to have access to the dev team in a way that feels really rare. Those of us who've been around for a while have seen the devs take in user advice and implement it time and time again, which I feel like you don't see very often with a lot of digital services. And there are monthly livestreams to keep everyone updated and give users the chance to ask questions and even make suggestions. Along with that, there's a community here--people who can answer your questions, give you tips on an encounter you've been building, discuss the strengths and flaws of your homebrew creations, and so on. I've found it's one of the least toxic D&D communities on the internet and I'm happy to consider myself a part of it.
And most of those things you can do to some degree or other without spending a penny. The character builder is free. The SRD, which contains most of the character options, monsters, and items you'll ever need, is fully indexed and integrated and it's totally free. If that's not enough, you can use private homebrew to add content from those glorious hardcovers you already own if you don't want to spend the money to purchase the content on DDB. And if you don't feel like building that stuff yourself, you can purchase it piecemeal for what seem to me to be fairly reasonable prices--and best yet, whatever you pay for that content comes off the cost of buying the book it's from, so you'll never pay "more" by buying things one at a time than you would buying the content all at once. If only iTunes worked that way!
But you're right. Maybe you don't need all that. And if you don't, that's okay. I'm not going to argue with you whether you should or shouldn't use DDB, only discuss what I see as the benefits of using it, why I don't feel that it's unfair to have to purchase the content "again," and how it's fully functional without spending any money. Only you can decide whether it's a good fit for you. Maybe your excel sheet and PDF really are all you need. That's fine. But I'd invite you to spend some more time exploring DDB and see if it's something that could not just fit into your routine, but maybe even challenge or change the way you approach the game.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
I've tried searching the forums for the answer to this but couldn't find anything. Is it possible, or perhaps being considered, to allow the purchase of character slots instead of requiring a subscription?
The only method available to increase the number of character slots is through the hero or master tier subscriptions which give you unlimited slots. Free accounts are limited to six characters. That idea has been proposed but I don't know if it has gone anywhere.
Well, I bought the PHB (again) so I could use it with DDB. And then I bought XGTE, but refused to buy it twice so sucks for the gaming store. Then I built my character. The builder itself was fine, if a bit excessive for someone who just wants to quickly throw a character together. And then I went to print the PDF so I could actually use the character at my next game. Oh wow, it sucked.
So I'm left with a basically unusable character sheet that I payed $60 for.
"But DNDB is meant to be used online!"
Well I don't play online. I need a usable printable sheet.
"DNDB is more than a character builder! The character builder is just a tiny part!"
Great. I like the online look-up of information. But the major part I wanted was the character builder.
"It's gonna be totally fixed soon!"
I first heard that last November...
"Maybe DNDB isn't for you!"
Well I guess that might be right, but it's hardly constructive. It's true that I will never spend another dollar on DNDB without some vast changes. If Curse thinks they can basically get by with their current set of whales, great. The general sentiment at conventions, stores and other forums seems to be one of "DNDB was a huge disappointment"
"Curse is a different company than WOTC"
Yes, but Curse is the company WOTC contracted to build the tools for their product. Both Curse and WOTC entered into whatever agreement they entered into without being forced. WOTC could have easily looked around the community at the tools built by fans and contracted them to expand those tools. Instead they decided to shut down those tools and funnel money into a company that has never worked with D&D before. Forgive me if 'We are different companies' rings a bit hollow.
So I'll continue to lurk in the forums and make sure the counter-point is heard.
Thank you, Jexthomas. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. When I use a new service or product the Business Analyst side of me, which has been drilled in to my psyche for decades, comes out and I tend to look at everything.
In comparison to Digital and Physical, for some reason everything I own related to the Wizard of the Coast was purchased at my local game store, yet everything I own from Paizo was purchased via a download from their direct site.
My focus was ease of use at the time of purchase. However, I think the D&D purchase was more of a call back to playing the 2 version of the basic set when it first entered the market.
I will continue to roll my investigation rolls. There is more to know.
Again, thank you.
Yeah, the PDF is lacking for sure. They are promising an update for that. I know you are tired of hearing that, but we are seeing previews of it in the livestream Q&As (one this Friday with hopefully more news). The last word was that updates would be out Q1 (the end of this month), but apparently infrastructure updates have caused another delay, but I do believe we are nearing the light at the end of the tunnel. I would guess by next month at the latest, based on the clues that have been presented.
All I can tell you is that PDFs were never part of the original vision, and they were added quickly due to customer demand. The version we were given was a placeholder, but the devs themselves have stated how unhappy they are with the current export. I'm not saying you're foolish for buying into something primarily for a placeholder function, as they probably could do a better job of advertising that fact (I know it because I've lurked these forums since the beta launch, and was one of the ones clamoring for an export).
It's a little bit more work, but when I needed a paper copy, I just ran the export (which is a form-fillable PDF), and then copy and pasted sections I needed from the digital sheet onto the PDF. It may be of little comfort to you now, but I have faith that the new one is coming soon and it will be satisfactory. The previews of the new digital sheet look FAR superior, so I'm sure that attention to design will extend to the entire product.
A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
To add to Adventure Flight's comment - it was released half baked because the community said they'd rather having something half baked now, than have to wait for something good later. So you're right, it's not good, but it was responsive to community requests.