I've screwed up the formatting of the quotes but I think it's still clear. In short yes that's my position. As a DM I don't see a practical difference between deleting a spell and replacing it for free with a different version. Both of those have the end result that I can no longer trust the content I'm looking at to be the same as it has been so an unasked for change "updated" is just as bad as removing the spell "nothing".
Then, it is a surprise for me and I amend my statement to make room for people who share your opinion.
Losing the ability to use the 2014 content in the character builder as a result of our purchases of the books is absolutely losing content. The compendium access isn't all that was purchased as part of D&D Beyond purchases. So to say no one is losing content is 100% a lie.
You are not losing content, you are having content you like updated and you may or may not like those updates. It is not a loss of content, but a loss of satisfaction with the available content. This site is for the most current version of 5e, which includes your spells and magic items.
Now imagine if you're in a big play-by-post west march discord server with dozens of players and they each have multiple PCs. I use 3 campaigns to hold my players, and that's just the folks who use this site... The compounding nightmare that is caused when rules change and you have to explain all of the changes and help them update their sheets to work with the 2014 standards you wish to keep. Mostly because I want it stay on par it with other homebrewed races/classes/subclasses/spells we have already added. The last thing i want is for things to be forced in rather than making my graceful transition.
Most of my players use this site cause it makes character creation super easy. Some are more clever and use dicecloud for homebrewed classes and races. I might just have all the clever ones teach the more reluctant. However i have quite a few players upset at the prospects of losing dndbeyonds ease of access that it offers once its no longer compatible with my setting. I might lose my players over the idea of moving to another service.
I don't hate 5e24, I just want to be to able to stick with all 5e14 features on character sheets. I look forward to playing new rules at the smaller tables I run sometimes.
I don't understand why this post is directed at me. I have never tried defending whether the execution of the transition from the 2014 rules to the 2024 rules is being done with grace.
Losing the spells in the character sheet IS losing content. The whole point of this service is the character sheet. If it doesn't work in the sheet because they've intentionally made it so, that's losing content by definition. Why are you white-knighting for a corporation that doesn't care about you?
You are not losing the spells though, as is clearly stated in the changelog. They are being updated to reflect the current rules of the game, which, as far as I have ever seen, has always been an objective for the site.
I am posting here because I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours and on the topic of whether people are getting nothing, it seems that there is a lot of sunlight between our views.
This is unacceptable, and you see it. I hope this will blow up in social media. Whoever made this decision, you really don't know your community. We paid like thousand of dollars to use this stuff. To say we will make it unviable, and you as a DM need to create Homebrew content for that, holy shit. So, then give us the refund for every book that will be inaccessible in the character sheet. You are close to an illegal situation here. It's basically theft if you just delete the content we bought.
NO ONE likes it. DO A TOGGLE, so we can decide. Because no one wants to use the new rules in the middle of their campaign.
Question to the guy that decided it would be a good idea, did you ever play the game? Did you ever use the website for your game? Have you been a GM? Because it seems that you don't understand anything. Yeah, let us force the unwanted book to everyone. so we can sell them more. yeah more money. That is the only reason, and everyone can see it. So you can push more of the next book, so everyone needs to buy everything again. Tausend of dollars from everyone, you think. Everyone can see this greedy and shitty plan. To force people to the new books. You don't understand YOUR community at all. It is clear you will keep trying to screw your customers over, and over again.
Losing the spells in the character sheet IS losing content. The whole point of this service is the character sheet. If it doesn't work in the sheet because they've intentionally made it so, that's losing content by definition. Why are you white-knighting for a corporation that doesn't care about you?
You are not losing the spells though, as is clearly stated in the changelog. They are being updated to reflect the current rules of the game, which, as far as I have ever seen, has always been an objective for the site.
I am posting here because I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours and on the topic of whether people are getting nothing, it seems that there is a lot of sunlight between our views.
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
Man I'm really upset my annual subscription just renewed earlier this month. If I knew this is how this would have been handled I could have cancelled it.
If we can't toggle the spells, items, and tool tips IN THE CHARACTER SHEET, no amount of "clarification" is going to solve anything. We didn't misunderstand the original announcement, you're willfully twisting the complaint (because there is no possible way an entire team failed to understand what we're complaining about).
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
I am not denying reality, I am correcting misinformation as I have identified it with clear explanations of why I believe that is the case. This is not a loss of content. Instead, it is an update to content and you can feel however you feel about that. I never stated that the updates are better. Rather, I said having the updated version of the spells and magic items is better than not having them at all in the toolset. If I were to gaslight you, I would be trying to manipulate you into questioning how you feel, which I have not done.
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE!
That right there is the entire argument. We paid for the 2014 rule set, we paid for additional source books for the 2014 rule set, and the reason was so we had convenient access on the character sheets. Removing the 2014 rule set versions is losing content, that I paid for.
Further this 'explanation' that the 2024 rule set is just errata is frankly bullshit. If it's 'just errata' why is WotC charging $25.50 for the digital rule set, and $50 for a physical copy? Lets be very honest and admit it's not errata, it's a new version of the game. One that many of us have chosen not to buy into, and are now being forced to contend with.
Losing the ability to use the 2014 content in the character builder as a result of our purchases of the books is absolutely losing content. The compendium access isn't all that was purchased as part of D&D Beyond purchases. So to say no one is losing content is 100% a lie.
You are not losing content, you are having content you like updated and you may or may not like those updates. It is not a loss of content, but a loss of satisfaction with the available content. This site is for the most current version of 5e, which includes your spells and magic items.
Your view only works if you view the 2014 and 2024 PHBs as the same product. However, as the contents are drastically different between them, this isn't the case and your view is wrong. The fact of the matter is that people bought the 2014 version because they wanted access to that version in the character builder. To take it away at this point is stealing content from players.
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
I am not denying reality, I am correcting misinformation as I have identified it with clear explanations of why I believe that is the case. This is not a loss of content. Instead, it is an update to content and you can feel however you feel about that. I never stated that the updates are better. Rather, I said having the updated version of the spells and magic items is better than not having them at all in the toolset. If I were to gaslight you, I would be trying to manipulate you into questioning how you feel, which I have not done.
> You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
How...how can you say you're not denying reality when you just did it in the previous sentence? This is literally the 5.5 version of the spells, that's what the 2024 is. It's the new edition. This isn't "the updated 5e spells", they're the 5.5 spells. *sigh* I don't understand why people keep defending this company, they literally don't care about you.
Your view only works if you view the 2014 and 2024 PHBs as the same product. However, as the contents are drastically different between them, this isn't the case and your view is wrong. The fact of the matter is that people bought the 2014 version because they wanted access to that version in the character builder. To take it away at this point is stealing content from players.
I disagree because I do not hold this view and still acknowledge that this changelog is an update of 5e rules. There is no requirement anywhere that I have to say that these products are the same and I reject the assertion that I must to hold my opinion.
The spells and magic items are different between 2014 and 2024. I acknowledge this. I also hold that this is still 5e content and I maintain that this site is and has always been a site for the most current version of 5e, which includes spells and magic items in 5e.
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
I am not denying reality, I am correcting misinformation as I have identified it with clear explanations of why I believe that is the case. This is not a loss of content. Instead, it is an update to content and you can feel however you feel about that. I never stated that the updates are better. Rather, I said having the updated version of the spells and magic items is better than not having them at all in the toolset. If I were to gaslight you, I would be trying to manipulate you into questioning how you feel, which I have not done.
I believe the angle many are replying to your comments from is that WotC has always claimed the new 2024 ruleset and content would be fully compatible with the 2014 content, and that one could continue using the 2014 content, move to the 2024 one or have a mix of both.
Now this move completely invalidates this full compatibility claim by effectively preventing users to decide to use the 2014 content in regards to spells in the character builder. As others have pointed out, was this an errata no one would complain more than "I don't like this or that change", but the fact that we are forced to use, in what is arguably the most useful part of this whole website, a version of part of the ruleset that was always claimed to be simply compatible with the latest errata version of the content we have been using so far is another thing.
Again, I think is the constant reassurance of full compatibility WotC has been throwing around left and right that makes this move surprising and for some infuriating, and the fact that we are still retaining access to "a version" of the content doesn't mean this is not a slap in the face.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
I am not denying reality, I am correcting misinformation as I have identified it with clear explanations of why I believe that is the case. This is not a loss of content. Instead, it is an update to content and you can feel however you feel about that. I never stated that the updates are better. Rather, I said having the updated version of the spells and magic items is better than not having them at all in the toolset. If I were to gaslight you, I would be trying to manipulate you into questioning how you feel, which I have not done.
Question since parts of the new PHB are now eratta, then why is the whole thing not eratta, that would solve the entire problem would it not?
I know you do not know, I am just curious to here your opinion.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
How...how can you say you're not denying reality when you just did it in the previous sentence? This is literally the 5.5 version of the spells, that's what the 2024 is. It's the new edition. This isn't "the updated 5e spells", they're the 5.5 spells. *sigh* I don't understand why people keep defending this company, they literally don't care about you.
I reject your opinion, not reality. That is how. If you don't want to see this as 5e, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do not agree and I am entitled to that opinion as well. I take positions that I feel like taking. How do you care about me where WotC does not, and how does that have any bearing on this discussion?
But that does not change the fact that there is no reason we shouldn’t be able to use the old spells in the character sheet. This is meant to be a new ruleset but is making the old stuff difficult to use. it’s disappointing after all the talk of backwards compatibility. A simple toggle would have been very much appreciated. I will have to make homebrew of all the old spells and explain to my casual players which ones they can and can’t pick. As others have said I’m not adverse to using the new rules at some point but when we want to and not in the middle of a campaign. The choice should be the players and DM not in the hands of the software.
I believe the angle many are replying to your comments from is that WotC has always claimed the new 2024 ruleset and content would be fully compatible with the 2014 content, and that one could continue using the 2014 content, move to the 2024 one or have a mix of both.
Now this move completely invalidates this full compatibility claim by effectively preventing users to decide to use the 2014 content in regards to spells in the character builder. As others have pointed out, was this an errata no one would complain more than "I don't like this or that change", but the fact that we are forced to use, in what is arguably the most useful part of this whole website, a version of part of the ruleset that was always claimed to be simply compatible with the latest errata version of the content we have been using so far is another thing.
Again, I think is the constant reassurance of full compatibility WotC has been throwing around left and right that makes this move surprising and for some infuriating, and the fact that we are still retaining access to "a version" of the content doesn't mean this is not a slap in the face.
I don't disagree with this at all, but it has nothing to do with any position that I have posted here, and that is not so convenient for many to acknowledge. Again, WotC is some faceless organization that is impervious to harm. But that one dude on the internet is a far less monolithic target.
You guys are wasting your time arguing. Opinions are not going to change here. Some people will never understand others viewpoints and are stubbornly stuck with their own.
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It's preposterous that WotC expects players to use the homebrew tool to "back up" any spells or magic items, and then gives us barely a week to do it.
How long has this been in the works?
Then, it is a surprise for me and I amend my statement to make room for people who share your opinion.
You are not losing content, you are having content you like updated and you may or may not like those updates. It is not a loss of content, but a loss of satisfaction with the available content. This site is for the most current version of 5e, which includes your spells and magic items.
I don't understand why this post is directed at me. I have never tried defending whether the execution of the transition from the 2014 rules to the 2024 rules is being done with grace.
You are not losing the spells though, as is clearly stated in the changelog. They are being updated to reflect the current rules of the game, which, as far as I have ever seen, has always been an objective for the site.
I am posting here because I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours and on the topic of whether people are getting nothing, it seems that there is a lot of sunlight between our views.
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Reading this makes me disinclined to purchase any future digital content from WotC again.
This is unacceptable, and you see it. I hope this will blow up in social media. Whoever made this decision, you really don't know your community.
We paid like thousand of dollars to use this stuff. To say we will make it unviable, and you as a DM need to create Homebrew content for that, holy shit. So, then give us the refund for every book that will be inaccessible in the character sheet. You are close to an illegal situation here. It's basically theft if you just delete the content we bought.
NO ONE likes it. DO A TOGGLE, so we can decide. Because no one wants to use the new rules in the middle of their campaign.
Question to the guy that decided it would be a good idea, did you ever play the game? Did you ever use the website for your game? Have you been a GM? Because it seems that you don't understand anything.
Yeah, let us force the unwanted book to everyone. so we can sell them more. yeah more money. That is the only reason, and everyone can see it. So you can push more of the next book, so everyone needs to buy everything again. Tausend of dollars from everyone, you think. Everyone can see this greedy and shitty plan. To force people to the new books.
You don't understand YOUR community at all. It is clear you will keep trying to screw your customers over, and over again.
This shitstorm is deserved
😂 Oh I remember . . .
We ARE losing the spells! The spells i paid for where the 5e ones, not the 5.5 ones! This isn't ******* errata, this is a new edition. I didn't pay for the 2024 PHB, I paid for the 2014 one. I AM losing the spells because now they WON'T WORK IN THE DAMN CHARACTER SHEET, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SERVICE! The character sheet is their main selling point, that is their main product, everything else is secondary. They are literally deleting our existing spells and replacing them with the new versions, that's how updating a file works.
> I am allowed to have opinions and feelings that are not in agreement with yours
Yeah, you're literally denying reality. The objective truth is that we are losing our functionality that we paid for and you are actively (i hate using this word outside its serious origins, but i have no better one right now) gaslighting people by saying "you're not losing anything, this is better!"
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU









Man I'm really upset my annual subscription just renewed earlier this month. If I knew this is how this would have been handled I could have cancelled it.
If we can't toggle the spells, items, and tool tips IN THE CHARACTER SHEET, no amount of "clarification" is going to solve anything. We didn't misunderstand the original announcement, you're willfully twisting the complaint (because there is no possible way an entire team failed to understand what we're complaining about).
You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
I am not denying reality, I am correcting misinformation as I have identified it with clear explanations of why I believe that is the case. This is not a loss of content. Instead, it is an update to content and you can feel however you feel about that. I never stated that the updates are better. Rather, I said having the updated version of the spells and magic items is better than not having them at all in the toolset. If I were to gaslight you, I would be trying to manipulate you into questioning how you feel, which I have not done.
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I would rather not have them, thanks
you seem to be the only person here who’s happy with this change.
That right there is the entire argument. We paid for the 2014 rule set, we paid for additional source books for the 2014 rule set, and the reason was so we had convenient access on the character sheets. Removing the 2014 rule set versions is losing content, that I paid for.
Further this 'explanation' that the 2024 rule set is just errata is frankly bullshit. If it's 'just errata' why is WotC charging $25.50 for the digital rule set, and $50 for a physical copy? Lets be very honest and admit it's not errata, it's a new version of the game. One that many of us have chosen not to buy into, and are now being forced to contend with.
Your view only works if you view the 2014 and 2024 PHBs as the same product. However, as the contents are drastically different between them, this isn't the case and your view is wrong. The fact of the matter is that people bought the 2014 version because they wanted access to that version in the character builder. To take it away at this point is stealing content from players.
> You are not getting 5.5e, you are getting updated 5e spells. You are entitled to feel however you want about the update.
How...how can you say you're not denying reality when you just did it in the previous sentence? This is literally the 5.5 version of the spells, that's what the 2024 is. It's the new edition. This isn't "the updated 5e spells", they're the 5.5 spells. *sigh* I don't understand why people keep defending this company, they literally don't care about you.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
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I disagree because I do not hold this view and still acknowledge that this changelog is an update of 5e rules. There is no requirement anywhere that I have to say that these products are the same and I reject the assertion that I must to hold my opinion.
The spells and magic items are different between 2014 and 2024. I acknowledge this. I also hold that this is still 5e content and I maintain that this site is and has always been a site for the most current version of 5e, which includes spells and magic items in 5e.
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I believe the angle many are replying to your comments from is that WotC has always claimed the new 2024 ruleset and content would be fully compatible with the 2014 content, and that one could continue using the 2014 content, move to the 2024 one or have a mix of both.
Now this move completely invalidates this full compatibility claim by effectively preventing users to decide to use the 2014 content in regards to spells in the character builder.
As others have pointed out, was this an errata no one would complain more than "I don't like this or that change", but the fact that we are forced to use, in what is arguably the most useful part of this whole website, a version of part of the ruleset that was always claimed to be simply compatible with the latest errata version of the content we have been using so far is another thing.
Again, I think is the constant reassurance of full compatibility WotC has been throwing around left and right that makes this move surprising and for some infuriating, and the fact that we are still retaining access to "a version" of the content doesn't mean this is not a slap in the face.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Question since parts of the new PHB are now eratta, then why is the whole thing not eratta, that would solve the entire problem would it not?
I know you do not know, I am just curious to here your opinion.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I reject your opinion, not reality. That is how. If you don't want to see this as 5e, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do not agree and I am entitled to that opinion as well. I take positions that I feel like taking. How do you care about me where WotC does not, and how does that have any bearing on this discussion?
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But that does not change the fact that there is no reason we shouldn’t be able to use the old spells in the character sheet.
This is meant to be a new ruleset but is making the old stuff difficult to use.
it’s disappointing after all the talk of backwards compatibility. A simple toggle would have been very much appreciated. I will have to make homebrew of all the old spells and explain to my casual players which ones they can and can’t pick. As others have said I’m not adverse to using the new rules at some point but when we want to and not in the middle of a campaign. The choice should be the players and DM not in the hands of the software.
I don't disagree with this at all, but it has nothing to do with any position that I have posted here, and that is not so convenient for many to acknowledge. Again, WotC is some faceless organization that is impervious to harm. But that one dude on the internet is a far less monolithic target.
Indeed it would, but, and this is my opinion, it probably wouldn't sell as many new books. :P
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You guys are wasting your time arguing. Opinions are not going to change here. Some people will never understand others viewpoints and are stubbornly stuck with their own.