2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Because we a losing content we paid for. We paid for the ability to add the old spells and magic items to our character sheets, and now they are taking it away.
And you are just arguing why you think it's "better"
Hey, look, everyone is still twisting this into the worst-faith reading of this and still replying with "BUT WHAT ABOUT" when their points are addressed.
If your problem is "I don't wanna copy-paste text into the homebrew system and hit 'enable homebrew content'!", you have displayed the most willfully obtuse way to use and navigate this tool. A tool that just gives a visual and interactive representation to the process we go through AT THE TABLE when someone says: "I think we'll use this rule instead."
Nothing goes away, no content vanishes, and people CONTINUE to lie about it. Built-in call functions cannot reference 2 sources simultaneously. A single sheet cannot operate on 2 different programmed operations.
If you want to suggest a real and VALID course of action: Suggest the building and implementation of a 2014 and 2024 character sheet, each with the expected rules and calling functionality. When that BASE exists, it gives a much more concrete argument for moving all pre-2024 content to a fleshed-out and fully-functional Legacy system with full implementation; a job that becomes the burden of the developers who build and maintain these tools, and we should expect them to handle and navigate that particular workload accordingly. Which is NOT in the hands nor on the clock of anyone but them, with open communication preferably offered to US about it.
Not a solution. Every hyperlink in every statblock, description, class, subclass, etc. linking to 2024 rules is NOT a solution. You either support 5e 2014 with a full site-wide toggle or you don't. You need full 2014 support with a full toggle option for ALL rules, spells, etc. or I'm keeping my subscription cancelled. You do realize we're going to have to make homebrew monsters for every single monster who casts magic to get them back to using 2014 spells. We can't even homebrew classes or invocations so they'll be stuck defaulting to 2024 spells. This is untenable.
Even then, you expect us to keep using this site with 2024 content? Why? You'll just dump the 2024 content too when WotC switches to 6e. You need a permanent solution in place otherwise I can't trust you years from now to not just do this again and delete our ability to easily access rules. This is about trust. You've lost it.
This isn't enough. People are upset because there is literally no reason you cannot retain all the 2014 spells, items, monsters, etc. in the database and available in the character builder along side the updated 2014 content. The objection is removing them from the builder when all you have to do is add a legacy flag, exactly as was being done with the ancestries, classes, and so on. This "fix" is nothing of the kind.
@SarahIsCoffee, I know you're not personally responsible for the change, and they are throwing you to the wolves making you post this "clarification", but let them know: Canceled subscriptions, canceled preorders, and consumer trust bottoming out are going to happen faster and faster every minute they don't revert these changes. This is the OGL all over again with blatant greed and purposeful mishandling of the community. D&D CANNOTsurvive like this.
"Better" is subjective. This may make it "better" for you, but to those of us who are realizing that all the money we've spent and purchases we've made on DnD Beyond are about to go to waste because there is a new system and WOTC/DnD wants more of our money. That (let's be honest) we were probably going to give them anyway. This is a slap in the face, you can call it "better" because they are going us a flower afterwards but they still slapped us in the face.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
I love when I have to dig through the rulebooks, its why I got Dndbeyond! /sarcasm.
I'm here for quick and easy character sheets, and slowly they have gotten worse and worse, less convenient.Moving onto supporting a new system before it ever got around to hammer out the issues with new mechanics/class adjustments in 5e.
The biggest problem is the lack of integration into the sheets. DnDbeyond is a convenience, if we can't auto roll a spell's damage than it loses that value. If I can't quickly go to a player's sheet and know what their spells do than it loses the ability to save me time. I'm paying you to save me time.
Instead of making us do the work, why don't they just port all of the 2014 spells to public homebrew? Pay an intern overtime and it shouldn't be that hard. Seems like a healthy compromise to me.
Are you deliberately trying to wind people up? If you're taking away something I value, giving me something that's worthless to me is not better in anything but the most theoretical and pedantic sense.
2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Oh, god. I get what you're saying now. That was a journey. Sure, yes, it's technically better than the previous understanding, but my man, that's not the topic of conversation. Read the room.
2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Because we a losing content we paid for. We paid for the ability to add the old spells and magic items to our character sheets, and now they are taking it away.
And you are just arguing why you think it's "better"
Losing what you paid for is not being disputed.
I am not arguing why I think it is better. I am arguing why what was understood yesterday is very different and much worse than what we understand now today.
Not one mention of the character sheets? The compendium is essentially free on the internet anyway. D&D Beyond Character sheets are the convenience. Are you giving players the convenience or are you making it impossible and tedious so folks give up and just buy the new material?
"Better" is subjective. This may make it "better" for you, but to those of us who are realizing that all the money we've spent and purchases we've made on DnD Beyond are about to go to waste because there is a new system and WOTC/DnD wants more of our money. That (let's be honest) we were probably going to give them anyway. This is a slap in the face, you can call it "better" because they are going us a flower afterwards but they still slapped us in the face.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
I was already getting it, I pre-ordered it. So it's a double slap in the face for me to be honest.
I fully intended to switch to the 2024 ruleset… After I finished my current campaign using the 2014 ruleset. I was excited about the updates and couldn’t wait to try them out, but now it feels like it’s being shoved down my throat and that has soured the excitement. I’ve spent hundreds on this site, but if the 2014 ruleset isn’t going to remain fully supported by the digital tools I will be canceling my membership and not purchasing another book.
I don't want the "updated versions", I want to finish this campaign using the ruleset we started playing it with, the ruleset that I paid money for!
And their solution is "Just homebrew everything if you want the old spells in the app". Well, if that's the solution, why would I ever purchase a product from them again, when I could just homebrew it?
It is better, you just are still unhappy about it. I outlined why it is better. I am not saying you have to like it. Please read my post for what it is.
It is in fact not better for me.
Just because you believe it is better for you, doesn't mean that is the case for everyone, don't assume it is, and certainly don't tell other people that they are incorrect about it. You have a completely subjective opinion on the change, just like I do, they are both valid, so don't act like yours is the objective truth, and don't dismiss my opinion as if it were.
No, it is objectively better, just not to your liking. It is content you get for free over your previous understanding, which is that you lost old content and got nothing. How I feel about the changes have not been discussed at all because you can't see beyond your own anger on this.
When I, and many others bought these books on DNDBeyond, compendium only access was an option for purchase, which cost about 2/3 of the cost of the books including the fully functional toolset. This is a forced downgrade and removal of a product that we paid for. Saying "You can still see it in the compendium" means nothing when that's not what was sold.
2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Oh, god. I get what you're saying now. That was a journey. Sure, yes, it's technically better than the previous understanding, but my man, that's not the topic of conversation. Read the room.
It was the topic. Everyone else just is using my posts to spit venom because at least I am someone they can hit. It is understandable because malice is a byproduct of blind rage, but that doesn't mean I am just going to let it happen.
That's not a solution. Every monster, item, class feature, etc. that links to a 2014 spell would ALSO need to be homebrewed. You can't even homebrew class features so they're stuck with 2024 spells on their character sheets permanently. The whole site has to toggle from one system to the other. Homebrew won't work.
Yeah still not happy about this! If I have to go to the compendium for everything why would I continue paying for the subscription? I use this subscription for the ease of the character sheets, so if that is taken away there is no reason for me to stay. Make a toggle for the 2014 rules and the 2024 rules!
Edit: Also I will add. How are search functions going to work now? I use the heck out of the spell, magic item and feat search bars. Will those now be obsolete to me since they will only work for the 2024 rules?
2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Oh, god. I get what you're saying now. That was a journey. Sure, yes, it's technically better than the previous understanding, but my man, that's not the topic of conversation. Read the room.
It was the topic. Everyone else just is using my posts to spit venom because at least I am someone they can hit. It is understandable because malice is a byproduct of blind rage, but that doesn't mean I am just going to let it happen.
No, Erik, it wasn't the topic at all. The first 5 responses (including mine, which you first replied to) are about accessing the 2014 content in the character sheet, which is going to be impossible after these changes.
Because we a losing content we paid for. We paid for the ability to add the old spells and magic items to our character sheets, and now they are taking it away.
And you are just arguing why you think it's "better"
Hey, look, everyone is still twisting this into the worst-faith reading of this and still replying with "BUT WHAT ABOUT" when their points are addressed.
If your problem is "I don't wanna copy-paste text into the homebrew system and hit 'enable homebrew content'!", you have displayed the most willfully obtuse way to use and navigate this tool. A tool that just gives a visual and interactive representation to the process we go through AT THE TABLE when someone says: "I think we'll use this rule instead."
Nothing goes away, no content vanishes, and people CONTINUE to lie about it. Built-in call functions cannot reference 2 sources simultaneously. A single sheet cannot operate on 2 different programmed operations.
If you want to suggest a real and VALID course of action: Suggest the building and implementation of a 2014 and 2024 character sheet, each with the expected rules and calling functionality. When that BASE exists, it gives a much more concrete argument for moving all pre-2024 content to a fleshed-out and fully-functional Legacy system with full implementation; a job that becomes the burden of the developers who build and maintain these tools, and we should expect them to handle and navigate that particular workload accordingly. Which is NOT in the hands nor on the clock of anyone but them, with open communication preferably offered to US about it.
Not a solution. Every hyperlink in every statblock, description, class, subclass, etc. linking to 2024 rules is NOT a solution. You either support 5e 2014 with a full site-wide toggle or you don't. You need full 2014 support with a full toggle option for ALL rules, spells, etc. or I'm keeping my subscription cancelled. You do realize we're going to have to make homebrew monsters for every single monster who casts magic to get them back to using 2014 spells. We can't even homebrew classes or invocations so they'll be stuck defaulting to 2024 spells. This is untenable.
Even then, you expect us to keep using this site with 2024 content? Why? You'll just dump the 2024 content too when WotC switches to 6e. You need a permanent solution in place otherwise I can't trust you years from now to not just do this again and delete our ability to easily access rules. This is about trust. You've lost it.
This isn't enough. People are upset because there is literally no reason you cannot retain all the 2014 spells, items, monsters, etc. in the database and available in the character builder along side the updated 2014 content. The objection is removing them from the builder when all you have to do is add a legacy flag, exactly as was being done with the ancestries, classes, and so on. This "fix" is nothing of the kind.
@SarahIsCoffee, I know you're not personally responsible for the change, and they are throwing you to the wolves making you post this "clarification", but let them know: Canceled subscriptions, canceled preorders, and consumer trust bottoming out are going to happen faster and faster every minute they don't revert these changes. This is the OGL all over again with blatant greed and purposeful mishandling of the community. D&D CANNOT survive like this.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
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Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
I love when I have to dig through the rulebooks, its why I got Dndbeyond! /sarcasm.
I'm here for quick and easy character sheets, and slowly they have gotten worse and worse, less convenient.Moving onto supporting a new system before it ever got around to hammer out the issues with new mechanics/class adjustments in 5e.
The biggest problem is the lack of integration into the sheets. DnDbeyond is a convenience, if we can't auto roll a spell's damage than it loses that value. If I can't quickly go to a player's sheet and know what their spells do than it loses the ability to save me time. I'm paying you to save me time.
Instead of making us do the work, why don't they just port all of the 2014 spells to public homebrew? Pay an intern overtime and it shouldn't be that hard. Seems like a healthy compromise to me.
Are you deliberately trying to wind people up? If you're taking away something I value, giving me something that's worthless to me is not better in anything but the most theoretical and pedantic sense.
Oh, god. I get what you're saying now. That was a journey. Sure, yes, it's technically better than the previous understanding, but my man, that's not the topic of conversation. Read the room.
This is a massive, massive overreaction to what is basically an errata release. Please get your heads on straight guys.
Losing what you paid for is not being disputed.
I am not arguing why I think it is better. I am arguing why what was understood yesterday is very different and much worse than what we understand now today.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Not one mention of the character sheets? The compendium is essentially free on the internet anyway. D&D Beyond Character sheets are the convenience. Are you giving players the convenience or are you making it impossible and tedious so folks give up and just buy the new material?
I was already getting it, I pre-ordered it. So it's a double slap in the face for me to be honest.
I fully intended to switch to the 2024 ruleset… After I finished my current campaign using the 2014 ruleset. I was excited about the updates and couldn’t wait to try them out, but now it feels like it’s being shoved down my throat and that has soured the excitement. I’ve spent hundreds on this site, but if the 2014 ruleset isn’t going to remain fully supported by the digital tools I will be canceling my membership and not purchasing another book.
Lol, no.
When I, and many others bought these books on DNDBeyond, compendium only access was an option for purchase, which cost about 2/3 of the cost of the books including the fully functional toolset. This is a forced downgrade and removal of a product that we paid for. Saying "You can still see it in the compendium" means nothing when that's not what was sold.
It was the topic. Everyone else just is using my posts to spit venom because at least I am someone they can hit. It is understandable because malice is a byproduct of blind rage, but that doesn't mean I am just going to let it happen.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
@Adventurefight
That's not a solution. Every monster, item, class feature, etc. that links to a 2014 spell would ALSO need to be homebrewed. You can't even homebrew class features so they're stuck with 2024 spells on their character sheets permanently. The whole site has to toggle from one system to the other. Homebrew won't work.
Yeah still not happy about this! If I have to go to the compendium for everything why would I continue paying for the subscription? I use this subscription for the ease of the character sheets, so if that is taken away there is no reason for me to stay. Make a toggle for the 2014 rules and the 2024 rules!
Edit: Also I will add. How are search functions going to work now? I use the heck out of the spell, magic item and feat search bars. Will those now be obsolete to me since they will only work for the 2024 rules?
No, Erik, it wasn't the topic at all. The first 5 responses (including mine, which you first replied to) are about accessing the 2014 content in the character sheet, which is going to be impossible after these changes.