I don't want the "updated versions", I want to finish this campaign using the ruleset we started playing it with, the ruleset that I paid money for!
And their solution is "Just homebrew everything if you want the old spells in the app". Well, if that's the solution, why would I ever purchase a product from them again, when I could just homebrew it?
It is better, you just are still unhappy about it. I outlined why it is better. I am not saying you have to like it. Please read my post for what it is.
It is in fact not better for me.
Just because you believe it is better for you, doesn't mean that is the case for everyone, don't assume it is, and certainly don't tell other people that they are incorrect about it. You have a completely subjective opinion on the change, just like I do, they are both valid, so don't act like yours is the objective truth, and don't dismiss my opinion as if it were.
No, it is objectively better, just not to your liking. It is content you get for free over your previous understanding, which is that you lost old content and got nothing. How I feel about the changes have not been discussed at all because you can't see beyond your own anger on this.
"GUYS! DIG IN THE DIRT AND FILL YOUR POCKETS WITH COCKROACHES! WHO CARE'S IF YOU DON'T WANT THAT, IT'S FREE!"
May I suggest you spin off a D&D Beyond Classic and shunt anyone that wants to continue using 2014 rules to that site? You can support all existing content there and add the updated stuff here as it comes out. A user could decide if they want their subscription on DDB or DDB Classic. Just a thought since people are up in arms because you're updating to the current rules.
Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
"Better" is subjective. This may make it "better" for you, but to those of us who are realizing that all the money we've spent and purchases we've made on DnD Beyond are about to go to waste because there is a new system and WOTC/DnD wants more of our money. That (let's be honest) we were probably going to give them anyway. This is a slap in the face, you can call it "better" because they are going us a flower afterwards but they still slapped us in the face.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
I'm gonna break into your house and steal your TV, it's okay though, I'm leaving a free turd on your doorstep. This free turd is objectively better than nothing.
This is not it; am I supposed to update dozens of spells across all of my characters, some of whom are level 10+?? Not to mention that entirely defeats the purpose of having an easy access website WITHOUT having to have the book by your side at all times. There's a legacy toggle edition for most of the character races that were updated, why can't there be something similar here?
is it so hard to add a setting somewhere to switch between different editions? If you want to remain useful throughout d&d 6e or 7e you should make the infrastructure now to switch your profile between different editions
No, Erik, it wasn't the topic at all. The first 5 responses (including mine, which you first replied to) are about accessing the 2014 content in the character sheet, which is going to be impossible after these changes.
This doesn't make the changes any better. It's still making it nigh impossible to use the app to play using the 5E.14 ruleset. Why would I use the app if I have to reference the compendium? The entire USP of the app is that the spells are accessible in one place, now it's actually worse than just using a book or searching the spell on google.
My response explains why it is better, just not to your liking, which IS directly on topic to your response and this thread, which I posted here:
Getting updated spells and magic items for free, without giving them a dime for it, does make the changes better. A lot better. Before, it seemed as though you were just up the creek without a paddle and had to homebrew to even make your character sheet functional. Now, it will just be replaced with the most up to date versions. Very different and much better.
Not better and not to your liking are not the same thing and 'nigh impossible' is obviously a gross exaggeration.
Hard disagree. Any change to the 2024 rules in the character sheets that isnt optional makes the whole point of DnDBeyond useless. I wasnt using it as an elibrary for dnd, but as a quick tool to create characters with the tooltips for the tools we use.
Literally nothing changed from the previous announcement, why on earth are people happy suddenly? We already knew they wanted to wholesale swap 2014 spells and magic items for 2024 ones regardless of ownership.
We also still don't have an answer to what happens when I level up and gain access to new spells on 2014 character? Are those automatically 2024?
2014 versions of spells will still not be accessible on character sheets based on this info. This has a rippling change through all the feats, racial traits, etc that give spells to players. Homebrew spells can be added, sure, (still complete bs that the onus is on your paying customer to do this), but then you have to homebrew classes and subclasses to give access in certain places, which is a huge user experience pain.
I am mid campaign (Ă—3) and was not planning on even thinking about 5.5e changes until those neared their end (and even so I was on the fence).
All I, and everyone else here, wants is continue to use our 2014 character sheets and 2014 era books the way they were originally written and linked. Add a toggle or a separate sheet, or a legacy spells category. Folks have done an amazing job laying that desire out for you in this, and the previous, thread.
5.5/2024 stuff can link all they want to the new rules, but there's no reason to leave the majority of your players still planning on staying with 2014 for the short (or long) term behind.
I have the Legendary bundle, and had a master tier subscription for many years until yesterday. Your response to this continues to be disappointing.
2014 users don't want the "free updated spells and magic items." We want the content we PAID for.
Forcing the 2024 version down our throats is NOT better.
How is getting content for free without paying for it NOT BETTER than losing the old content and getting nothing?
Again, I outlined why it is better than the previous understanding. Your argument on why it is not better really is just you arguing why you do not like it.
Oh, god. I get what you're saying now. That was a journey. Sure, yes, it's technically better than the previous understanding, but my man, that's not the topic of conversation. Read the room.
It was the topic. Everyone else just is using my posts to spit venom because at least I am someone they can hit. It is understandable because malice is a byproduct of blind rage, but that doesn't mean I am just going to let it happen.
I am sorry if you view us as using you as a punching bag, but each post you reply to is just "it's still better than before" which is not the topic at hand. Right now for all of us the topic is, "I paid for this, you are now taking away what I paid for."
No one cares if the situation is "Better". If you order a salad, and the waiter brings you a literal sh!t, you correct them and say, "I ordered a salad," and they come back with the same sh!t with lettuce. You were still given sh!t.
It's nothing on you, but everyone else is having a different conversation right now.
It literally won't be impossible, as stated now by 2 separate official statements and breakdowns on the how and why. I don't understand how you people can read something that definitively says "Here's how to do the thing you want to do" and so confidently scream "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOU'RE RUINING/TAKING AWAY EVERYTHING!". But, then again, I've been silently watching this community do it since I was 12.
Edit: Just making a note here to expect the future of this conversation to keep repeating "taking away what I paid for" and "removing content" despite neither of those things happening. Someone already responded with a "pay an intern overtime to make it work" and that tells me all I need to know about you folks.
"Better" is subjective. This may make it "better" for you, but to those of us who are realizing that all the money we've spent and purchases we've made on DnD Beyond are about to go to waste because there is a new system and WOTC/DnD wants more of our money. That (let's be honest) we were probably going to give them anyway. This is a slap in the face, you can call it "better" because they are going us a flower afterwards but they still slapped us in the face.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
I'm gonna break into your house and steal your TV, it's okay though, I'm leaving a free turd on your doorstep. This free turd is objectively better than nothing.
OK, let's chill on the Erik invective. He was making a simple point that doesn't really contradict those of us who are angry about the lack of spells in character sheets, and it gotten taken the wrong way by a lot of us here because we're mad. Let's direct the venom where it's deserved, at WoTC.
"Better" is subjective. This may make it "better" for you, but to those of us who are realizing that all the money we've spent and purchases we've made on DnD Beyond are about to go to waste because there is a new system and WOTC/DnD wants more of our money. That (let's be honest) we were probably going to give them anyway. This is a slap in the face, you can call it "better" because they are going us a flower afterwards but they still slapped us in the face.
How is it better for me? Something is better than nothing... objectively. You are not getting something where you previously were getting nothing. If something is not better than nothing, don't use the site at all. It's all the same to you.
I'm gonna break into your house and steal your TV, it's okay though, I'm leaving a free turd on your doorstep. This free turd is objectively better than nothing.
The more accurate analogy is stealing my broken, 10 year old television and leaving a brand new, $5,000 television behind. Which, yes, would be objectively better than nothing.
This doesn't make the changes any better. It's still making it nigh impossible to use the app to play using the 5E.14 ruleset. Why would I use the app if I have to reference the compendium? The entire USP of the app is that the spells are accessible in one place, now it's actually worse than just using a book or searching the spell on google.
I'm part of a group that's in a multi-year campaign. We have no intention of updating to the new rules as we are nearing the end, though won't be finished until after the new rules are released. Can we at least have a toggle to choose whether already existing characters are affected by the rules update?
Yes, I've actually had gaming groups fall apart over disagreements about mid-campaign rules changes. This is not cool at all.
And their solution is "Just homebrew everything if you want the old spells in the app". Well, if that's the solution, why would I ever purchase a product from them again, when I could just homebrew it?
And their solution doesn't even fully fix the problem, since you can't homebrew things like warlock invocations or mundane equipment!
If your problem is "I don't wanna copy-paste text into the homebrew system and hit 'enable homebrew content'!", you have displayed the most willfully obtuse way to use and navigate this tool. A tool that just gives a visual and interactive representation to the process we go through AT THE TABLE when someone says: "I think we'll use this rule instead."
That's not the only issue. Even if we put the effort into homebrew the 2014 spells, we can't homebrew things like 2014 warlock invocations. If we use the latter, we'll be stuck with the invocation pointing to the 2024 version of the spell. Not helpful!
I love when I have to dig through the rulebooks, its why I got Dndbeyond! /sarcasm.
No kidding! In some cases, relying on the compendium to reference rules is worse than using physical books. At least with the latter, I can memorize page numbers to find things quickly. With the less than stellar compendium search function, it can be quite tricky to find some things on D&D Beyond.
The clarification regarding the last changelog is appreciated. However, limiting the 2014 versions of spells, magic items and equipment to compendium only is absurd. People payed for the ability to use these features in their interactive character sheets, for it's practicality and ease of use. Updating old sheets to default to the 2024 versions, while requiring your players to create homebrew copies of the 2014 spells and items is counter intuitive, time consuming and disrespectful towards your user base.
I implore you to reconsider this approach.
Try and make the a toggle between 2024 and 2014 versions of the rules. Don't force your players to conform to the new rules.
Today, if somebody owns both _Lost Mine of Phandelver_ and _Phandelver and Below_, they can access both versions of reprinted content (e.g. the Staff of Defense) and add either to their character sheet.
So we know WotC has the ability to legacy tag items and spells--they're just choosing not to.
Man, remember when they removed the option to buy JUST the book, without the character sheet bloatware because you didn't want to use it? Welp, now I get why they did that, they knew they were going to mess up the character sheet and make it an even tougher pill to swallow.
Long live the compendium, you will be missed. Well, okay, it looks like I'm the only one that misses it, but hey, at least now I get the joy of watching the pitchforks while I eat some popcorn.
Annnnd you lost my sub. Greedy ah DNDbeyond moment... making us lose access to stuff that we have bought that we can only use HERE? You can (respectfully) Go eat 1000 rock grubs, each and every one of you.
No its not a good analogy. A new tv is better then an old, broken tv, as a broken tv doesnt work as a tv.
A good analogy would be breaking into my home, taking away the tv i like and provides me everything i need from a tv, and leaving me a tv you believe to be better, with different channels and services.
If the point of this site for a user was to get easy access in character sheet to the 2014 stuff and it is taken away, then no change, except for reverting said change will make it any "better" for that user, as it doesnt satisfy the basic need.
"GUYS! DIG IN THE DIRT AND FILL YOUR POCKETS WITH COCKROACHES! WHO CARE'S IF YOU DON'T WANT THAT, IT'S FREE!"
May I suggest you spin off a D&D Beyond Classic and shunt anyone that wants to continue using 2014 rules to that site? You can support all existing content there and add the updated stuff here as it comes out. A user could decide if they want their subscription on DDB or DDB Classic. Just a thought since people are up in arms because you're updating to the current rules.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I'm gonna break into your house and steal your TV, it's okay though, I'm leaving a free turd on your doorstep. This free turd is objectively better than nothing.
This is not it; am I supposed to update dozens of spells across all of my characters, some of whom are level 10+?? Not to mention that entirely defeats the purpose of having an easy access website WITHOUT having to have the book by your side at all times. There's a legacy toggle edition for most of the character races that were updated, why can't there be something similar here?
is it so hard to add a setting somewhere to switch between different editions? If you want to remain useful throughout d&d 6e or 7e you should make the infrastructure now to switch your profile between different editions
Your first post here:
My response explains why it is better, just not to your liking, which IS directly on topic to your response and this thread, which I posted here:
Not better and not to your liking are not the same thing and 'nigh impossible' is obviously a gross exaggeration.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
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Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Hard disagree. Any change to the 2024 rules in the character sheets that isnt optional makes the whole point of DnDBeyond useless. I wasnt using it as an elibrary for dnd, but as a quick tool to create characters with the tooltips for the tools we use.
Literally nothing changed from the previous announcement, why on earth are people happy suddenly? We already knew they wanted to wholesale swap 2014 spells and magic items for 2024 ones regardless of ownership.
We also still don't have an answer to what happens when I level up and gain access to new spells on 2014 character? Are those automatically 2024?
2014 versions of spells will still not be accessible on character sheets based on this info. This has a rippling change through all the feats, racial traits, etc that give spells to players. Homebrew spells can be added, sure, (still complete bs that the onus is on your paying customer to do this), but then you have to homebrew classes and subclasses to give access in certain places, which is a huge user experience pain.
I am mid campaign (Ă—3) and was not planning on even thinking about 5.5e changes until those neared their end (and even so I was on the fence).
All I, and everyone else here, wants is continue to use our 2014 character sheets and 2014 era books the way they were originally written and linked. Add a toggle or a separate sheet, or a legacy spells category. Folks have done an amazing job laying that desire out for you in this, and the previous, thread.
5.5/2024 stuff can link all they want to the new rules, but there's no reason to leave the majority of your players still planning on staying with 2014 for the short (or long) term behind.
I have the Legendary bundle, and had a master tier subscription for many years until yesterday. Your response to this continues to be disappointing.
Do better.
I am sorry if you view us as using you as a punching bag, but each post you reply to is just "it's still better than before" which is not the topic at hand. Right now for all of us the topic is, "I paid for this, you are now taking away what I paid for."
No one cares if the situation is "Better". If you order a salad, and the waiter brings you a literal sh!t, you correct them and say, "I ordered a salad," and they come back with the same sh!t with lettuce. You were still given sh!t.
It's nothing on you, but everyone else is having a different conversation right now.
It literally won't be impossible, as stated now by 2 separate official statements and breakdowns on the how and why. I don't understand how you people can read something that definitively says "Here's how to do the thing you want to do" and so confidently scream "IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOU'RE RUINING/TAKING AWAY EVERYTHING!". But, then again, I've been silently watching this community do it since I was 12.
Edit: Just making a note here to expect the future of this conversation to keep repeating "taking away what I paid for" and "removing content" despite neither of those things happening. Someone already responded with a "pay an intern overtime to make it work" and that tells me all I need to know about you folks.
Again, whether you like it is very different from whether the update is better.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
OK, let's chill on the Erik invective. He was making a simple point that doesn't really contradict those of us who are angry about the lack of spells in character sheets, and it gotten taken the wrong way by a lot of us here because we're mad. Let's direct the venom where it's deserved, at WoTC.
The more accurate analogy is stealing my broken, 10 year old television and leaving a brand new, $5,000 television behind. Which, yes, would be objectively better than nothing.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Exactly this!
Yes, I've actually had gaming groups fall apart over disagreements about mid-campaign rules changes. This is not cool at all.
And their solution doesn't even fully fix the problem, since you can't homebrew things like warlock invocations or mundane equipment!
That's not the only issue. Even if we put the effort into homebrew the 2014 spells, we can't homebrew things like 2014 warlock invocations. If we use the latter, we'll be stuck with the invocation pointing to the 2024 version of the spell. Not helpful!
No kidding! In some cases, relying on the compendium to reference rules is worse than using physical books. At least with the latter, I can memorize page numbers to find things quickly. With the less than stellar compendium search function, it can be quite tricky to find some things on D&D Beyond.
This is not errata. If it was, they would be changing the 2014 books, not issuing a whole new set of books.
Dear D&D Beyond team,
The clarification regarding the last changelog is appreciated. However, limiting the 2014 versions of spells, magic items and equipment to compendium only is absurd. People payed for the ability to use these features in their interactive character sheets, for it's practicality and ease of use. Updating old sheets to default to the 2024 versions, while requiring your players to create homebrew copies of the 2014 spells and items is counter intuitive, time consuming and disrespectful towards your user base.
I implore you to reconsider this approach.
Try and make the a toggle between 2024 and 2014 versions of the rules. Don't force your players to conform to the new rules.
Please.
Today, if somebody owns both _Lost Mine of Phandelver_ and _Phandelver and Below_, they can access both versions of reprinted content (e.g. the Staff of Defense) and add either to their character sheet.
So we know WotC has the ability to legacy tag items and spells--they're just choosing not to.
Man, remember when they removed the option to buy JUST the book, without the character sheet bloatware because you didn't want to use it? Welp, now I get why they did that, they knew they were going to mess up the character sheet and make it an even tougher pill to swallow.
Long live the compendium, you will be missed. Well, okay, it looks like I'm the only one that misses it, but hey, at least now I get the joy of watching the pitchforks while I eat some popcorn.
Annnnd you lost my sub. Greedy ah DNDbeyond moment... making us lose access to stuff that we have bought that we can only use HERE? You can (respectfully) Go eat 1000 rock grubs, each and every one of you.
No its not a good analogy. A new tv is better then an old, broken tv, as a broken tv doesnt work as a tv.
A good analogy would be breaking into my home, taking away the tv i like and provides me everything i need from a tv, and leaving me a tv you believe to be better, with different channels and services.
If the point of this site for a user was to get easy access in character sheet to the 2014 stuff and it is taken away, then no change, except for reverting said change will make it any "better" for that user, as it doesnt satisfy the basic need.
Works for me, thanks for the update