Truly though thats not what i was trying to say. What i am meaning to say is the stand point of "i want this new thing this exact way" is frankly, completely unreasonable. You arent here to have a conversation and get new ideas about how a psionic class could feasibly function in 5e, its just to tell anyone who even tries to meet at a middle ground that their idea isnt good enough for you cause it doesnt give you the exact thing that you want.
I am not entirely opposed to the psionic class as an idea, and i even quite like how the mystics ability worked, but the thing you want wont be balanced in 5e. It wont be cohesive in 5e (from a mechanical standpoint). And it surly wont make everyone happy in 5e. Honestly, at this point i am glad they killed the mystic
edit: this was posted without refreshing after my "your welcome" comment
I think thats inherently the problem with psionics in 5e. People are so hard pressed that it not even touch the effects that already exist in spell casting, and that is just simply ridiculous and unnecessary
Sposta and I have explained many times why we don't think Spellcasting should be used to be Psionics in 5e. The fact that you don't agree with this opinion doesn't make it ridiculous and unnecessary. Opinions are normally not something that is incorrect or true. It's just a personal feeling, and your opinion is also "ridiculous and unnecessary" to my opinion.
I would like to point out that i said nothing about using Spellcasting as a system. I understand wanting to stay away from things like slots
So instead I focused on how psions approach spellcasting and how their abilities might change the way some spells work. As an example, a Telepath does not need any verbal or somatic component to cast spells belonging to the science of Telepathy, they just do it. And the telekinetic subclass can vastly augment the strength and utility of the basic mage hand cantrip.
I do hate to break it to you bud, but that is the sorcerer
So instead I focused on how psions approach spellcasting and how their abilities might change the way some spells work. As an example, a Telepath does not need any verbal or somatic component to cast spells belonging to the science of Telepathy, they just do it. And the telekinetic subclass can vastly augment the strength and utility of the basic mage hand cantrip.
I do hate to break it to you bud, but that is the sorcerer
Truly though thats not what i was trying to say. What i am meaning to say is the stand point of "i want this new thing this exact way" is frankly, completely unreasonable. You arent here to have a conversation and get new ideas about how a psionic class could feasibly function in 5e, its just to tell anyone who even tries to meet at a middle ground that their idea isnt good enough for you cause it doesnt give you the exact thing that you want.
But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I am not entirely opposed to the psionic class as an idea, and i even quite like how the mystics ability worked, but the thing you want wont be balanced in 5e. It wont be cohesive in 5e (from a mechanical standpoint). And it surly wont make everyone happy in 5e. Honestly, at this point i am glad they killed the mystic
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
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I think thats inherently the problem with psionics in 5e. People are so hard pressed that it not even touch the effects that already exist in spell casting, and that is just simply ridiculous and unnecessary
Sposta and I have explained many times why we don't think Spellcasting should be used to be Psionics in 5e. The fact that you don't agree with this opinion doesn't make it ridiculous and unnecessary. Opinions are normally not something that is incorrect or true. It's just a personal feeling, and your opinion is also "ridiculous and unnecessary" to my opinion.
I would like to point out that i said nothing about using Spellcasting as a system. I understand wanting to stay away from things like slots
No, stay away from spells and spellcasting.
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I think thats inherently the problem with psionics in 5e. People are so hard pressed that it not even touch the effects that already exist in spell casting, and that is just simply ridiculous and unnecessary
Sposta and I have explained many times why we don't think Spellcasting should be used to be Psionics in 5e. The fact that you don't agree with this opinion doesn't make it ridiculous and unnecessary. Opinions are normally not something that is incorrect or true. It's just a personal feeling, and your opinion is also "ridiculous and unnecessary" to my opinion.
I would like to point out that i said nothing about using Spellcasting as a system. I understand wanting to stay away from things like slots
No, stay away from spells and spellcasting.
Atrome is of the opinion that spellcasting is not Psionics, but the powers should still use the spell list for simplicity’s sake. And they have a valid point. I disagree with it, but I cannot deny its validity.
But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
Those 'few points' are some very large and demanding points bugga-boo and that is surly not a fallacy.
I like how you also only responded to like, 2 very small points out of that whole thing lmao
I do share views that differ from what you have on this topic, yes. But for the most part i had absolutely no desire to input anything until that rude “Yeah. No thanks” 2nd grade pouty child response when Jsol75 simply tried to share something that they made and were proud of.
Because believe it or not, these forums are actual for sharing ideas and things that you have created with other members of the community, not to tell other people their ideas are bad because it isn't your idea.
On that note, a much more productive place to post homebrew and get really good feedback is on reddit (surprisingly). I recommend r/DMAcademy. It is a very friendly and helpful subreddit for stuff like this
But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
Those 'few points' are some very large and demanding points bugga-boo and that is surly not a fallacy.
No, they're barely anything. It has to be a class, and has to be a new system. Is it too much to demand that your apple sauce has to be made of apples? It's a fallacy to say that they couldn't balance a new system. The fact that something hasn't happened before doesn't mean that it can't be done.
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But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
Those 'few points' are some very large and demanding points bugga-boo and that is surly not a fallacy.
I like how you also only responded to like, 2 very small points out of that whole thing lmao
I would also like to point out that you are the same person who went into a different thread and said one of the main problems with the Mystic was that the document was too long and need to be about the same length as other classes, when the only reason that it was 28 pages long was because they did give you an entire new system. It was 5 pages of class and 23 pages of psionics which- Would you look at that!!- is the same average length of a normal class and about 1/3 of the spellcasting system.
Which you complained about?! strange. Almost like its extremely complicated to make a new system.....
I do share views that differ from what you have on this topic, yes. But for the most part i had absolutely no desire to input anything until that rude “Yeah. No thanks” 2nd grade pouty child response when kvnluck simply tried to share something that they made and were proud of.
Because believe it or not, these forums are actual for sharing ideas and things that you have created with other members of the community, not to tell other people their ideas are bad because it isn't your idea.
No, that's not what I'm trying to do. Just trying to explain my point of view as to why Psionics can't be based around spellcasting or spells.
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I do share views that differ from what you have on this topic, yes. But for the most part i had absolutely no desire to input anything until that rude “Yeah. No thanks” 2nd grade pouty child response when kvnluck simply tried to share something that they made and were proud of.
Because believe it or not, these forums are actual for sharing ideas and things that you have created with other members of the community, not to tell other people their ideas are bad because it isn't your idea.
On that note, a much more productive place to post homebrew and get really good feedback is on reddit (surprisingly). I recommend r/DMAcademy. It is a very friendly and helpful subreddit for stuff like this
Hold up. Someone approaches you in the supermarket with a sample of food. You inquire if it has X ingredient because it disagrees with you for some reason, maybe peanut allergy or lactose intolerance or vegan reasons or blood sugar or whatever. They tell you it has ingredient X in it. And you politely tell them “Okay. No thank you.”
I didn’t say anything other than to politely tell that person that I was not interested in their product. I didn’t tell them they were wrong. I didn’t tell them they shouldn’t do it. I didn’t tell them to leave. I didn’t tell them not to purseu interest elsewhere from other members in this thread. I quite literally said the politest thing I could, the thing my grandmother taught me to say: “no thank you.”
No, they're barely anything. It has to be a class, and has to be a new system. Is it too much to demand that your apple sauce has to be made of apples? It's a fallacy to say that they couldn't balance a new system. The fact that something hasn't happened before doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Boi! With that apple sauce analogy you are demanding that it be made of apples (a new class) but only be made in the way your ancestors made it before the invention of fire (a new system) i have no clue what kind of point you are trying to make here. Also they did try it before, in 2017 remember. Although i cant quite remember how that went.....
But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
Those 'few points' are some very large and demanding points bugga-boo and that is surly not a fallacy.
I like how you also only responded to like, 2 very small points out of that whole thing lmao
I would also like to point out that you are the same person who went into a different thread and said one of the main problems with the Mystic was that the document was too long and need to be about the same length as other classes, when the only reason that it was 28 pages long was because they did give you an entire new system. It was 5 pages of class and 23 pages of psionics which- Would you look at that!!- is the same average length of a normal class and about 1/3 of the spellcasting system.
Yes, I was that person. Mystic was too overpowered and was too long and complicated. I have said that I want the new system to not be too complicated. 5e is based around simplicity.
Which you complained about?! strange. Almost like its extremely complicated to make a new system.....
Yeah, except the only new system they tried out was an extremely complicated and long one. They can make a fairly simple and short new system for psionics. It doesn't have to be super long and complicated. Again, it's a circular argument to say "It hasn't happened the way you want it, so it can't happen, because this thing happened".
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No, they're barely anything. It has to be a class, and has to be a new system. Is it too much to demand that your apple sauce has to be made of apples? It's a fallacy to say that they couldn't balance a new system. The fact that something hasn't happened before doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Boi! With that apple sauce analogy you are demanding that it be made of apples (a new class) but only be made in the way your ancestors made it before the invention of fire (a new system) i have no clue what kind of point you are trying to make here. Also they did try it before, in 2017 remember. Although i cant quite remember how that went.....
They tried it, but not enough. Remember the Artificer? They made the first version, which was broken and horrible, and then they eventually tried again with very serious revisions, and they got it right. Why can't the same thing happen with a Psionic class?
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I do share views that differ from what you have on this topic, yes. But for the most part i had absolutely no desire to input anything until that rude “Yeah. No thanks” 2nd grade pouty child response when kvnluck simply tried to share something that they made and were proud of.
Because believe it or not, these forums are actual for sharing ideas and things that you have created with other members of the community, not to tell other people their ideas are bad because it isn't your idea.
No, that's not what I'm trying to do. Just trying to explain my point of view as to why Psionics can't be based around spellcasting or spells.
Hold up. Someone approaches you in the supermarket with a sample of food. You inquire if it has X ingredient because it disagrees with you for some reason, maybe peanut allergy or lactose intolerance or vegan reasons or blood sugar or whatever. They tell you it has ingredient X in it. And you politely tell them “Okay. No thank you.”
Literally no one says it like that unless it is sarcastic and they are trying to be rude, but go off i guess lmao
Atrome, that is exactly what you said; do not act surprised that people interpret things a certain way when you say them a certain way. You are also mischaracterizing the argument many of us have made, which is that we disagree with the idea that spellcasting is an adequate way to represent psionics, and why we feel that this is the case. Further, we have discussed throughout this thread, as well as other relevant threads, different ways in which how such a system might work, and saying that this is impossible is clearly false, otherwise we wouldn't have any class differentiation in 5e whatsoever.
Lastly, perhaps you are unaware, but the tone you are using in describing proponents of a different system for psionics is condescending and, quite frankly, a little insulting. If you want to continue having this conversation and advocate your position, then by all means you are free to do so. However, I highly recommend that when you do so, you do so from a position of respect rather than treating us like children incapable of holding mature and reasoned arguments.
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Truly though thats not what i was trying to say. What i am meaning to say is the stand point of "i want this new thing this exact way" is frankly, completely unreasonable. You arent here to have a conversation and get new ideas about how a psionic class could feasibly function in 5e, its just to tell anyone who even tries to meet at a middle ground that their idea isnt good enough for you cause it doesnt give you the exact thing that you want.
I am not entirely opposed to the psionic class as an idea, and i even quite like how the mystics ability worked, but the thing you want wont be balanced in 5e. It wont be cohesive in 5e (from a mechanical standpoint). And it surly wont make everyone happy in 5e. Honestly, at this point i am glad they killed the mystic
edit: this was posted without refreshing after my "your welcome" comment
🖕
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I would like to point out that i said nothing about using Spellcasting as a system. I understand wanting to stay away from things like slots
I do hate to break it to you bud, but that is the sorcerer
Exactly.
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But it was what you were trying to say. You're saying that the key points that I believe psionics should go is pointless.
I want Psionics to be a class and it to not be a spellcaster and it to be balanced. I have opinions on the other abilities and so on, but the only things I need to approve a psionic system in a UA. I'm not unreasonable or unyielding in my point of view, except on a few points.
I don't see how anyone would be opposed to it as a class besides WotC. It can be balanced. They can balance a new system. The fact that they haven't made it yet doesn't mean that it can't exist. This is a fallacy.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
No, stay away from spells and spellcasting.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Atrome is of the opinion that spellcasting is not Psionics, but the powers should still use the spell list for simplicity’s sake. And they have a valid point. I disagree with it, but I cannot deny its validity.
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Those 'few points' are some very large and demanding points bugga-boo and that is surly not a fallacy.
I like how you also only responded to like, 2 very small points out of that whole thing lmao
I do share views that differ from what you have on this topic, yes. But for the most part i had absolutely no desire to input anything until that rude “Yeah. No thanks” 2nd grade pouty child response when Jsol75 simply tried to share something that they made and were proud of.
Because believe it or not, these forums are actual for sharing ideas and things that you have created with other members of the community, not to tell other people their ideas are bad because it isn't your idea.
On that note, a much more productive place to post homebrew and get really good feedback is on reddit (surprisingly). I recommend r/DMAcademy. It is a very friendly and helpful subreddit for stuff like this
No, they're barely anything. It has to be a class, and has to be a new system. Is it too much to demand that your apple sauce has to be made of apples? It's a fallacy to say that they couldn't balance a new system. The fact that something hasn't happened before doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I would also like to point out that you are the same person who went into a different thread and said one of the main problems with the Mystic was that the document was too long and need to be about the same length as other classes, when the only reason that it was 28 pages long was because they did give you an entire new system. It was 5 pages of class and 23 pages of psionics which- Would you look at that!!- is the same average length of a normal class and about 1/3 of the spellcasting system.
Which you complained about?! strange. Almost like its extremely complicated to make a new system.....
No, that's not what I'm trying to do. Just trying to explain my point of view as to why Psionics can't be based around spellcasting or spells.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Hold up. Someone approaches you in the supermarket with a sample of food. You inquire if it has X ingredient because it disagrees with you for some reason, maybe peanut allergy or lactose intolerance or vegan reasons or blood sugar or whatever. They tell you it has ingredient X in it. And you politely tell them “Okay. No thank you.”
I didn’t say anything other than to politely tell that person that I was not interested in their product. I didn’t tell them they were wrong. I didn’t tell them they shouldn’t do it. I didn’t tell them to leave. I didn’t tell them not to purseu interest elsewhere from other members in this thread. I quite literally said the politest thing I could, the thing my grandmother taught me to say: “no thank you.”
🤔
Yeah, I’m the rude one. We’ll go with that.... 🙄
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Boi! With that apple sauce analogy you are demanding that it be made of apples (a new class) but only be made in the way your ancestors made it before the invention of fire (a new system) i have no clue what kind of point you are trying to make here. Also they did try it before, in 2017 remember. Although i cant quite remember how that went.....
Yes, I was that person. Mystic was too overpowered and was too long and complicated. I have said that I want the new system to not be too complicated. 5e is based around simplicity.
Yeah, except the only new system they tried out was an extremely complicated and long one. They can make a fairly simple and short new system for psionics. It doesn't have to be super long and complicated. Again, it's a circular argument to say "It hasn't happened the way you want it, so it can't happen, because this thing happened".
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
They tried it, but not enough. Remember the Artificer? They made the first version, which was broken and horrible, and then they eventually tried again with very serious revisions, and they got it right. Why can't the same thing happen with a Psionic class?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
This wasnt directed at you actually lol
Literally no one says it like that unless it is sarcastic and they are trying to be rude, but go off i guess lmao
Atrome, that is exactly what you said; do not act surprised that people interpret things a certain way when you say them a certain way. You are also mischaracterizing the argument many of us have made, which is that we disagree with the idea that spellcasting is an adequate way to represent psionics, and why we feel that this is the case. Further, we have discussed throughout this thread, as well as other relevant threads, different ways in which how such a system might work, and saying that this is impossible is clearly false, otherwise we wouldn't have any class differentiation in 5e whatsoever.
Lastly, perhaps you are unaware, but the tone you are using in describing proponents of a different system for psionics is condescending and, quite frankly, a little insulting. If you want to continue having this conversation and advocate your position, then by all means you are free to do so. However, I highly recommend that when you do so, you do so from a position of respect rather than treating us like children incapable of holding mature and reasoned arguments.