The Mystic had more problems then that. The points array was based on spell points and that chart was reduculous. There were no restrictions on which subclass could take what disciplines, the Focus part was confusing for people. It needed a lot of work to make it viable.
Many objections:
"The points array was based on spell points"
-just becuase it is based on spell points does not make it less unique, no class uses them by default, almost nobody uses that variant rule and it still feels radically different from spellcasting, they were able to do many things with that mechanic just like how they can with the psi Dice, especially since their disiplinces remain at a certain power level 9th level onwards and they just become better at using the disiplinces they have
"and that chart was reduculous"
-what chart did you mean and why do you Think it is ridiculous?
"the Focus part was confusing for people"
-well the focus was not that confusing, but you could Always move it to level 2, or remove it entirely since it isint really vital to the power of the class-
"There were no restrictions on which subclass could take what disciplines"
-why should there be such restrictions? No similar restrictions exist for wizards and many other spellcasters, shure some spellcasting classes have a handful of archetype spells between , and maybe it would be cool for one or two psionic disiplinces associated with each order was Only available to that order, but forcing an wu jen to Only take wu jen disiplinces and mostly restricting themselves to a fraction of the available disiplinces feels stupid, as stupid as a evocation wizard Only being able to learn evocation spells
Well let’s address this:
When I mentioned the spell point conversion my issue with it was not that it was based on spell points, but rather the ridiculousness of the chart. What chart you ask? The chart that told the Mystic player how many spell points they got per level. Because it was designed as a half caster and then the slots were converted into Psi Points we ended up with this hot mess:
Level
Psi Points
1st
4
2nd
6
3rd
14
4th
17
5th
27
6th
32
7th
38
8th
44
9th
57
10th
64
11th
64
12th
64
13th
64
14th
64
15th
64
16th
64
17th
64
18th
71
19th
71
20th
71
That number progression ends up not making sense.
The Focus was a problem because you ended up with 8 of them to use, but remembering to constantly switch it around was as hard to remember for average players as Hunter’s Mark for Laure Bailey. It was a pain in the neck, and from the DM’s chair it was painful to watch players struggle with it.
The main complaint that people had about the Mystic was that one character could do everybody else’s jobs. If they had been restricted in part by having to primarily choose disciplines from their own Mystic Order, with maybe only a few from the others then 1 character would not have been able to do ev-er-y-thing. That would have helped game balance quite a bit.
Was I more clear in my meaning this time?
Well it looks a Bit janky due to having an equivolent amount of points as casters have slots, Most significant boosts to psi comes at the same time as an disipline and a increase to psi limit, so see it as a sudden increase in awareness or whatever
Well if it is too tricky to constantly Change psi focus, then simply Change it so that it can Change whenever they finish a short rest
I have never understood the idea of mystics doing everything and solving all problems when what mystics can do is a few raw damage effects not quite as good as sorcerers and wizards, some very small amount of buffs, a bunch of Good controll / debuff effects, a very small set of summoning things from wu jen disiplinces, a lot of strong buffs that Only affect yourself, and not a whole lot of out of combat abillities and those that were there was mostly ether precognition, mind controll / reading or something delightfully weird like Cloud steps, i get that psionic healing was a Bit exessive, as is starting with three disiplinces at level 1 for Most subclasses, but i dont see this making for the ludicris Mary Sue like "i can solve all problem my party is useless" type characters, i have little practical experience with the class but it does not seem as versatile as People say it is and not nearly as versatile as a wizard (whom i also dont have a lot of practical experience with), just by removing the bonus disiplinces so that the mystic has half as many disiplinces as a sorcerer has spells and tie the more exotic or problematic disiplinces as exclusive to particular orders, this non problem Will be completely resolved it feels
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I can tell you from experience DMing a Mystic for a time that appearance are deceiving. With the right combinations the Mystic could basically render the rest of their party to the role of meatshields.
I don’t disagree. Your proposed solutions would have gone a long way towards fixing the issues. But the feedback was so vitriolically negative that they just scrapped it.
Gonna throw this out for consideration, even though it's mostly useless. Primarily because it pricked at my brain until I wrote it and I'm curious if so simple an adjustment to the Psi Die mechanic would settle folks who think the original was so awkward and awful that they'd rather not have psionic classes than have to deal with a changing die.
Psionic Power Pool: You have awakened the latent power of your mind (via one method or another) and gained a measure of psionic power. This power is represented by your Psionic Power Pool – a number of dice you can use to fuel psionic abilities. These dice start as d6s, and increase in size to d8s at 5 level, d10s at 11 level, and d12s at 17 level. Whenever an ability calls for you to roll one of your Power Die, you may only do so if a die remains in the pool to be rolled.
The size of your Psionic Power Pool varies based on the method by which you acquired your talents. The Wild Talent feat allows any character to gain a measure of psionic ability and grants two Power Die. There are subclasses for characters classes such as the Sorcerer, Rogue, and Fighter that also awaken psionic potential; these subclasses’ more focused training grant you four Power Die. And finally, the Mystic character class is centered around psionic ability and training its mind to the utmost edge. This character class grants you four Power Die at level 1, and gains more Power Die as you gain levels in the Mystic class. If you have a Power Pool from multiple sources, do not combine them – instead, use only the Psionic Power Pool with the highest number of dice.
Psionic abilities will usually require you to roll a Power Die. When you do, if you roll the highest number possible on that Power Die, you experience a Psionic Surge. You may regain one expended Power Die, or you may roll that Power Die a second time and add the result to the first roll. If you do, that Power Die is expended and removed from your pool. If the second roll also produces a Surge, ignore that Surge – you may only roll one additional dice in this way. If you roll a 1 when rolling a Power Die, you experience a Psionic Crash; that die is expended and removed from your pool. Some abilities may specify that the Power Die is consumed regardless of the roll; in this case ignore both Surges and Crashes.
* * *
The idea is to create a core psionic mechanic that is no more complex or difficult to keep track of than the Battlemaster’s Superiority Die system – which is already acknowledged as being perfectly fine and even a popular mechanic many wish was more widespread – and to eliminate the ‘backwardsness’ or losing or gaining power on the ‘wrong’ numbers. Different feats, subclasses, and core classes can utilize Power Die in different ways, with the size of the pool representing the limits of one’s power and the differences between someone with a psionic knack but little training (Wild Talent) and someone devoted to the path of the mind (Mystic/Psion class).
Much like Maneuvers, the Power Die can be utilized for any number of effects, with any individual use of the Power Die being as straightforward or as complex as the class requires. Some of the ebb-and-flow nature of psionics is preserved via Surges and Crashes, while affording players a more predictable pool of power to draw on over the course of an adventuring day.
Due to the system being based on a die pool rather than a single, variable die, feats and/or class abilities could hook into the system in different ways. A feat could grant an additional base Power Die, for example, while a particular Mystic class ability could allow the Mystic to ‘fracture’ a Power Die into multiple smaller die, or combine some of their Power Die into a single larger roll. Abilities can consume a Power Die without the bother of tracking what size of die is left – you just lose that die until you do whatever your feat/subclass/class tells you restores your pool, making it more palatable to use those abilities.
Heh, funnily enough Yurei, I was having a very similar conversation with Levi and Sposta earlier in the thread (after that very, *very* disappointing video) about using a dice pool with crash/surge mechanics similar to the one you're describing just now.
I would be down with that concept. Would allow a higher level of decision making rather than just i use it because its there. The original psi die leaned towards you use it consistently and when your lucks runs out you go back to relying on what ya got as your base class. I didnt mind playing into the burnout trope but being able to decide to burnout for an important effect would be a very clever mechanic.
I could see making some more potent effects always consume the die while some of the more minor effects you have more control over that possibility.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Gonna throw this out for consideration, even though it's mostly useless. Primarily because it pricked at my brain until I wrote it and I'm curious if so simple an adjustment to the Psi Die mechanic would settle folks who think the original was so awkward and awful that they'd rather not have psionic classes than have to deal with a changing die.
Psionic Power Pool: You have awakened the latent power of your mind (via one method or another) and gained a measure of psionic power. This power is represented by your Psionic Power Pool – a number of dice you can use to fuel psionic abilities. These dice start as d6s, and increase in size to d8s at 5 level, d10s at 11 level, and d12s at 17 level. Whenever an ability calls for you to roll one of your Power Die, you may only do so if a die remains in the pool to be rolled.
The size of your Psionic Power Pool varies based on the method by which you acquired your talents. The Wild Talent feat allows any character to gain a measure of psionic ability and grants two Power Die. There are subclasses for characters classes such as the Sorcerer, Rogue, and Fighter that also awaken psionic potential; these subclasses’ more focused training grant you four Power Die. And finally, the Mystic character class is centered around psionic ability and training its mind to the utmost edge. This character class grants you four Power Die at level 1, and gains more Power Die as you gain levels in the Mystic class. If you have a Power Pool from multiple sources, do not combine them – instead, use only the Psionic Power Pool with the highest number of dice.
Psionic abilities will usually require you to roll a Power Die. When you do, if you roll the highest number possible on that Power Die, you experience a Psionic Surge. You may regain one expended Power Die, or you may roll that Power Die a second time and add the result to the first roll. If you do, that Power Die is expended and removed from your pool. If the second roll also produces a Surge, ignore that Surge – you may only roll one additional dice in this way. If you roll a 1 when rolling a Power Die, you experience a Psionic Crash; that die is expended and removed from your pool. Some abilities may specify that the Power Die is consumed regardless of the roll; in this case ignore both Surges and Crashes.
* * *
The idea is to create a core psionic mechanic that is no more complex or difficult to keep track of than the Battlemaster’s Superiority Die system – which is already acknowledged as being perfectly fine and even a popular mechanic many wish was more widespread – and to eliminate the ‘backwardsness’ or losing or gaining power on the ‘wrong’ numbers. Different feats, subclasses, and core classes can utilize Power Die in different ways, with the size of the pool representing the limits of one’s power and the differences between someone with a psionic knack but little training (Wild Talent) and someone devoted to the path of the mind (Mystic/Psion class).
Much like Maneuvers, the Power Die can be utilized for any number of effects, with any individual use of the Power Die being as straightforward or as complex as the class requires. Some of the ebb-and-flow nature of psionics is preserved via Surges and Crashes, while affording players a more predictable pool of power to draw on over the course of an adventuring day.
Due to the system being based on a die pool rather than a single, variable die, feats and/or class abilities could hook into the system in different ways. A feat could grant an additional base Power Die, for example, while a particular Mystic class ability could allow the Mystic to ‘fracture’ a Power Die into multiple smaller die, or combine some of their Power Die into a single larger roll. Abilities can consume a Power Die without the bother of tracking what size of die is left – you just lose that die until you do whatever your feat/subclass/class tells you restores your pool, making it more palatable to use those abilities.
I really like this design so far. It starts in a really cool and interesting place. I have a few questions.
1) So this is not a resource? For example, you say you start with 4 dice, and get more as you level. So if you use an ability and roll a 3 on a die, you still have 4 dice. If you roll a 1 you decrease to 3 dice. If you reach 0 you don’t have abilities? Have you considered what this would look like if it was a resource (as in all psi abilities consume the die?) and what this looks like vs this one? I’d imagine the design as is would require a lower power level of abilities on average, because you aren’t technically expending any resources. Because 1/6 of the time you lose a die, 1/6 of the time you gain one, and 4/6 of the time your pool remains the same, you’d be balancing abilities against cantrips and attacks on average?
2) I really like the idea of the Mystic being the name. Is that on purpose? What makes you go that route?
3) do you have an example or two of theses abilities? I’m curious if you have a few designs of their functions and how they interact with the dice pools.
1.) It is a resource, but one that is not expended in the usual way. This is intentional, as a means of further distancing psychic abilities from spellcasting. Psychic abilities that do not automatically consume a Power Die would be less impactful on average, yes. That's intentional - the game designer working on a psychic ability thusly has more room to decide how that ability works. More impactful abilities can consume a die regardless of the roll, with high-level capstones potentially allowing you to roll your entire Power Pool at once for a single huge 'Burnout' ability. The fact that the designer can choose whether or not the die is expended allows for a greater breadth of powers to be developed.
2.) The Mystic was the name for the psionic core class in 3.5e, and in the old-ass UA doc from several years ago people still pine about. 'Psion' is a modern nonsense word usually used to describe someone with psionic abilities, which may or may not be different than psychic abilities.
3.) Many of the mechanics from the existing Psi UA work just fine with this system. SImply change "the die decreases one size" to "expend a Power Die." As one example, one of my low-key favorites of the new psionic abilities, the Metabolic Control feat, would read "You can expend a Power Die, and in the doing gain nutrition and energy equivalent to consuming a full day's rations. You can also meditate for one minute, rebalancing your spirit and body, and gain the benefit of completing a short rest. You must expend a Power Die to do so; roll the die and add the result to any one Hit Die you spend to recover hit points for this rest. You cannot do so again until you complete a long rest."
As one example of the 'Burnout' capability, a Soulblade rogue could gain a variation of 'Psionic Smite', gaining the ability at higher levels to expend multiple Power Dice to deal significant additional damage to a target. Alternatively, you could grant a Soulblade the ability to expend a Power Die to add it to the attack roll of one of its psychic blades; if the combination of the d20 and the Power Die (but not your to-hit bonus) is 20 or greater, the attack counts as a critical hit. That would be a very powerful capstone for a Soulblade class, limited by the fact that they only get four Power Dice, they can't guarantee that any Power Dice they don't use fishing for crits will stick around, and if they're out of Power Dice they can't use any of their other psionic abilities, either.
2.) The Mystic was the name for the psionic core class in 3.5e, and in the old-ass UA doc from several years ago people still pine about. 'Psion' is a modern nonsense word usually used to describe someone with psionic abilities, which may or may not be different than psychic abilities.
The uhhh "wizard-equivalent" psionic core class in both 3e and 3.5e was the "psion." It was shortened from the word "psionicist" that was used in earlier editions, which was a good change because that's a stupid word. I have the 3e Psionics Handbook and the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook five feet away from me on my bookshelf if you want pictures :p
1.) It is a resource, but one that is not expended in the usual way. This is intentional, as a means of further distancing psychic abilities from spellcasting. Psychic abilities that do not automatically consume a Power Die would be less impactful on average, yes. That's intentional - the game designer working on a psychic ability thusly has more room to decide how that ability works. More impactful abilities can consume a die regardless of the roll, with high-level capstones potentially allowing you to roll your entire Power Pool at once for a single huge 'Burnout' ability. The fact that the designer can choose whether or not the die is expended allows for a greater breadth of powers to be developed.
2.) The Mystic was the name for the psionic core class in 3.5e, and in the old-ass UA doc from several years ago people still pine about. 'Psion' is a modern nonsense word usually used to describe someone with psionic abilities, which may or may not be different than psychic abilities.
3.) Many of the mechanics from the existing Psi UA work just fine with this system. SImply change "the die decreases one size" to "expend a Power Die." As one example, one of my low-key favorites of the new psionic abilities, the Metabolic Control feat, would read "You can expend a Power Die, and in the doing gain nutrition and energy equivalent to consuming a full day's rations. You can also meditate for one minute, rebalancing your spirit and body, and gain the benefit of completing a short rest. You must expend a Power Die to do so; roll the die and add the result to any one Hit Die you spend to recover hit points for this rest. You cannot do so again until you complete a long rest."
As one example of the 'Burnout' capability, a Soulblade rogue could gain a variation of 'Psionic Smite', gaining the ability at higher levels to expend multiple Power Dice to deal significant additional damage to a target. Alternatively, you could grant a Soulblade the ability to expend a Power Die to add it to the attack roll of one of its psychic blades; if the combination of the d20 and the Power Die (but not your to-hit bonus) is 20 or greater, the attack counts as a critical hit. That would be a very powerful capstone for a Soulblade class, limited by the fact that they only get four Power Dice, they can't guarantee that any Power Dice they don't use fishing for crits will stick around, and if they're out of Power Dice they can't use any of their other psionic abilities, either.
1) Ok perfect, that makes sense. In terms of balance then I am picturing it correctly. Essentially abilities that do not auto consume a Psi Die are going to likely be balanced in similar power to cantrips and regular attacks. But power scaling will allow you to use stronger abilities by auto consuming the die (or dice). I like it.
2) Like I said, I prefer the name too. The Mystic tells the player what they will be playing, IMO, better than the Psion, and fits the themes of the game more often. I was just curious if it was done for ease or for specific reasons.
3) I think I understand how subclasses would work, I was curious what the Mystic abilities would be with the pools. Again, nothing too in depth. I think it’s easy to picture the Rogue subclass, because the psi die is enhancing what a Rogue already does. Since there isn’t a reference to Mystic officially yet, I’m trying to picture if it’s ranger attacks, controls, more utility? How do you picture some of their features?
Something I am curious about, do you think they would recover a single dice on a short rest, and all dice on a long rest? Or something to that effect.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I need to say... this looks over complicated, over punishing in the bad rolls, and overall... I think this would be the most hated mechanic in the game from far.
First, D&D does not work well with a resource that is consumed by bad rolls, people dislike this, even if I consider fun, and they are gonna complain even if it's consumed in 1. Rather, it allows that when the player rolls the maximum value in the Psidie they can if they wish to surge the dice, rolling it again and adding the result, in exchange for expending the die.
The number for each class also feels kinda off, I don't know. Simple allows wild talent to give one additional Psidie and one Psionic ability, while all the psionic classes start with a dice pool with 3 initial dies, and earn two additional dies with levels. Then grant the subclasses one way to recover die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for long rest, and to the main class (I prefer Psion to Mystic, but wilder, psychic or mentalist are acceptable too) one way to recover the die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for short rest.
I need to say... this looks over complicated, over punishing in the bad rolls, and overall... I think this would be the most hated mechanic in the game from far.
First, D&D does not work well with a resource that is consumed by bad rolls, people dislike this, even if I consider fun, and they are gonna complain even if it's consumed in 1. Rather, it allows that when the player rolls the maximum value in the Psidie they can if they wish to surge the dice, rolling it again and adding the result, in exchange for expending the die.
The number for each class also feels kinda off, I don't know. Simple allows wild talent to give one additional Psidie and one Psionic ability, while all the psionic classes start with a dice pool with 3 initial dies, and earn two additional dies with levels. Then grant the subclasses one way to recover die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for long rest, and to the main class (I prefer Psion to Mystic, but wilder, psychic or mentalist are acceptable too) one way to recover the die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for short rest.
I noticed some of this too, but I think many of these issues would be noticed with a more serious effort too. Get a few sets of eyes to balance and clean it up.
The important part is getting the “feel” right first and getting an understanding of what would make most of the community want to play the class. Solid examples are better than vague descriptions which is why I like it so far. Design usually gets slightly more simplified after a few attempts and cleaned up.
i will say I like the concept of the crash and surges, but they still don’t feel perfect to me. I agree, players don’t like bad things on rolls, but without that risk you’d have to decrease the power of the abilities tied to it even lower. There is something to tweak in the mechanic, but I’m not exactly sure what. The answer might come if we see the mechanics that use this pool and how they use the die numbers in the Mystic.
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Well it looks a Bit janky due to having an equivolent amount of points as casters have slots, Most significant boosts to psi comes at the same time as an disipline and a increase to psi limit, so see it as a sudden increase in awareness or whatever
Well if it is too tricky to constantly Change psi focus, then simply Change it so that it can Change whenever they finish a short rest
I have never understood the idea of mystics doing everything and solving all problems when what mystics can do is a few raw damage effects not quite as good as sorcerers and wizards, some very small amount of buffs, a bunch of Good controll / debuff effects, a very small set of summoning things from wu jen disiplinces, a lot of strong buffs that Only affect yourself, and not a whole lot of out of combat abillities and those that were there was mostly ether precognition, mind controll / reading or something delightfully weird like Cloud steps, i get that psionic healing was a Bit exessive, as is starting with three disiplinces at level 1 for Most subclasses, but i dont see this making for the ludicris Mary Sue like "i can solve all problem my party is useless" type characters, i have little practical experience with the class but it does not seem as versatile as People say it is and not nearly as versatile as a wizard (whom i also dont have a lot of practical experience with), just by removing the bonus disiplinces so that the mystic has half as many disiplinces as a sorcerer has spells and tie the more exotic or problematic disiplinces as exclusive to particular orders, this non problem Will be completely resolved it feels
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I can tell you from experience DMing a Mystic for a time that appearance are deceiving. With the right combinations the Mystic could basically render the rest of their party to the role of meatshields.
I don’t disagree. Your proposed solutions would have gone a long way towards fixing the issues. But the feedback was so vitriolically negative that they just scrapped it.
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(I personally think they should have done a new try, without completely scrapping the whole thing)
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I agree.
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Gonna throw this out for consideration, even though it's mostly useless. Primarily because it pricked at my brain until I wrote it and I'm curious if so simple an adjustment to the Psi Die mechanic would settle folks who think the original was so awkward and awful that they'd rather not have psionic classes than have to deal with a changing die.
Psionic Power Pool:
You have awakened the latent power of your mind (via one method or another) and gained a measure of psionic power. This power is represented by your Psionic Power Pool – a number of dice you can use to fuel psionic abilities. These dice start as d6s, and increase in size to d8s at 5 level, d10s at 11 level, and d12s at 17 level. Whenever an ability calls for you to roll one of your Power Die, you may only do so if a die remains in the pool to be rolled.
The size of your Psionic Power Pool varies based on the method by which you acquired your talents. The Wild Talent feat allows any character to gain a measure of psionic ability and grants two Power Die. There are subclasses for characters classes such as the Sorcerer, Rogue, and Fighter that also awaken psionic potential; these subclasses’ more focused training grant you four Power Die. And finally, the Mystic character class is centered around psionic ability and training its mind to the utmost edge. This character class grants you four Power Die at level 1, and gains more Power Die as you gain levels in the Mystic class. If you have a Power Pool from multiple sources, do not combine them – instead, use only the Psionic Power Pool with the highest number of dice.
Psionic abilities will usually require you to roll a Power Die. When you do, if you roll the highest number possible on that Power Die, you experience a Psionic Surge. You may regain one expended Power Die, or you may roll that Power Die a second time and add the result to the first roll. If you do, that Power Die is expended and removed from your pool. If the second roll also produces a Surge, ignore that Surge – you may only roll one additional dice in this way. If you roll a 1 when rolling a Power Die, you experience a Psionic Crash; that die is expended and removed from your pool. Some abilities may specify that the Power Die is consumed regardless of the roll; in this case ignore both Surges and Crashes.
* * *
The idea is to create a core psionic mechanic that is no more complex or difficult to keep track of than the Battlemaster’s Superiority Die system – which is already acknowledged as being perfectly fine and even a popular mechanic many wish was more widespread – and to eliminate the ‘backwardsness’ or losing or gaining power on the ‘wrong’ numbers. Different feats, subclasses, and core classes can utilize Power Die in different ways, with the size of the pool representing the limits of one’s power and the differences between someone with a psionic knack but little training (Wild Talent) and someone devoted to the path of the mind (Mystic/Psion class).
Much like Maneuvers, the Power Die can be utilized for any number of effects, with any individual use of the Power Die being as straightforward or as complex as the class requires. Some of the ebb-and-flow nature of psionics is preserved via Surges and Crashes, while affording players a more predictable pool of power to draw on over the course of an adventuring day.
Due to the system being based on a die pool rather than a single, variable die, feats and/or class abilities could hook into the system in different ways. A feat could grant an additional base Power Die, for example, while a particular Mystic class ability could allow the Mystic to ‘fracture’ a Power Die into multiple smaller die, or combine some of their Power Die into a single larger roll. Abilities can consume a Power Die without the bother of tracking what size of die is left – you just lose that die until you do whatever your feat/subclass/class tells you restores your pool, making it more palatable to use those abilities.
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Heh, funnily enough Yurei, I was having a very similar conversation with Levi and Sposta earlier in the thread (after that very, *very* disappointing video) about using a dice pool with crash/surge mechanics similar to the one you're describing just now.
Yeah, I’ve been rolling it around in my head. Trying to sort it out. Was going to be putting something together to show you two next week.
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I would be down with that concept. Would allow a higher level of decision making rather than just i use it because its there. The original psi die leaned towards you use it consistently and when your lucks runs out you go back to relying on what ya got as your base class. I didnt mind playing into the burnout trope but being able to decide to burnout for an important effect would be a very clever mechanic.
I could see making some more potent effects always consume the die while some of the more minor effects you have more control over that possibility.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Sounds good. I look forward to seeing it when you feel it's ready.
EDIT: Also, Yurei, I misread what you wrote as Psionic Power Tool. I may or may not reserve that for future ideas...
Aren't there Duergar digging machines that blast rocks with psionic power?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
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It sounds like a good idea to me (though I also liked the original Psi Die mechanic).
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That’s reserved for the next spinoff, D&D vs The Jersey Shore.
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I really like this design so far. It starts in a really cool and interesting place. I have a few questions.
1) So this is not a resource? For example, you say you start with 4 dice, and get more as you level. So if you use an ability and roll a 3 on a die, you still have 4 dice. If you roll a 1 you decrease to 3 dice. If you reach 0 you don’t have abilities? Have you considered what this would look like if it was a resource (as in all psi abilities consume the die?) and what this looks like vs this one? I’d imagine the design as is would require a lower power level of abilities on average, because you aren’t technically expending any resources. Because 1/6 of the time you lose a die, 1/6 of the time you gain one, and 4/6 of the time your pool remains the same, you’d be balancing abilities against cantrips and attacks on average?
2) I really like the idea of the Mystic being the name. Is that on purpose? What makes you go that route?
3) do you have an example or two of theses abilities? I’m curious if you have a few designs of their functions and how they interact with the dice pools.
Thanks!
1.) It is a resource, but one that is not expended in the usual way. This is intentional, as a means of further distancing psychic abilities from spellcasting. Psychic abilities that do not automatically consume a Power Die would be less impactful on average, yes. That's intentional - the game designer working on a psychic ability thusly has more room to decide how that ability works. More impactful abilities can consume a die regardless of the roll, with high-level capstones potentially allowing you to roll your entire Power Pool at once for a single huge 'Burnout' ability. The fact that the designer can choose whether or not the die is expended allows for a greater breadth of powers to be developed.
2.) The Mystic was the name for the psionic core class in 3.5e, and in the old-ass UA doc from several years ago people still pine about. 'Psion' is a modern nonsense word usually used to describe someone with psionic abilities, which may or may not be different than psychic abilities.
3.) Many of the mechanics from the existing Psi UA work just fine with this system. SImply change "the die decreases one size" to "expend a Power Die." As one example, one of my low-key favorites of the new psionic abilities, the Metabolic Control feat, would read "You can expend a Power Die, and in the doing gain nutrition and energy equivalent to consuming a full day's rations. You can also meditate for one minute, rebalancing your spirit and body, and gain the benefit of completing a short rest. You must expend a Power Die to do so; roll the die and add the result to any one Hit Die you spend to recover hit points for this rest. You cannot do so again until you complete a long rest."
As one example of the 'Burnout' capability, a Soulblade rogue could gain a variation of 'Psionic Smite', gaining the ability at higher levels to expend multiple Power Dice to deal significant additional damage to a target. Alternatively, you could grant a Soulblade the ability to expend a Power Die to add it to the attack roll of one of its psychic blades; if the combination of the d20 and the Power Die (but not your to-hit bonus) is 20 or greater, the attack counts as a critical hit. That would be a very powerful capstone for a Soulblade class, limited by the fact that they only get four Power Dice, they can't guarantee that any Power Dice they don't use fishing for crits will stick around, and if they're out of Power Dice they can't use any of their other psionic abilities, either.
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The uhhh "wizard-equivalent" psionic core class in both 3e and 3.5e was the "psion." It was shortened from the word "psionicist" that was used in earlier editions, which was a good change because that's a stupid word. I have the 3e Psionics Handbook and the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook five feet away from me on my bookshelf if you want pictures :p
Your homebrew idea sounds neat though.
1) Ok perfect, that makes sense. In terms of balance then I am picturing it correctly. Essentially abilities that do not auto consume a Psi Die are going to likely be balanced in similar power to cantrips and regular attacks. But power scaling will allow you to use stronger abilities by auto consuming the die (or dice). I like it.
2) Like I said, I prefer the name too. The Mystic tells the player what they will be playing, IMO, better than the Psion, and fits the themes of the game more often. I was just curious if it was done for ease or for specific reasons.
3) I think I understand how subclasses would work, I was curious what the Mystic abilities would be with the pools. Again, nothing too in depth. I think it’s easy to picture the Rogue subclass, because the psi die is enhancing what a Rogue already does. Since there isn’t a reference to Mystic officially yet, I’m trying to picture if it’s ranger attacks, controls, more utility? How do you picture some of their features?
No, it's like a mechanical prison for a duergar as a punishment that uses pain energy to fuel the machine, which then drills.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Something I am curious about, do you think they would recover a single dice on a short rest, and all dice on a long rest? Or something to that effect.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I need to say... this looks over complicated, over punishing in the bad rolls, and overall... I think this would be the most hated mechanic in the game from far.
First, D&D does not work well with a resource that is consumed by bad rolls, people dislike this, even if I consider fun, and they are gonna complain even if it's consumed in 1. Rather, it allows that when the player rolls the maximum value in the Psidie they can if they wish to surge the dice, rolling it again and adding the result, in exchange for expending the die.
The number for each class also feels kinda off, I don't know. Simple allows wild talent to give one additional Psidie and one Psionic ability, while all the psionic classes start with a dice pool with 3 initial dies, and earn two additional dies with levels. Then grant the subclasses one way to recover die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for long rest, and to the main class (I prefer Psion to Mystic, but wilder, psychic or mentalist are acceptable too) one way to recover the die once, or a number equal to Int modifier, for short rest.
I noticed some of this too, but I think many of these issues would be noticed with a more serious effort too. Get a few sets of eyes to balance and clean it up.
The important part is getting the “feel” right first and getting an understanding of what would make most of the community want to play the class. Solid examples are better than vague descriptions which is why I like it so far. Design usually gets slightly more simplified after a few attempts and cleaned up.
i will say I like the concept of the crash and surges, but they still don’t feel perfect to me. I agree, players don’t like bad things on rolls, but without that risk you’d have to decrease the power of the abilities tied to it even lower. There is something to tweak in the mechanic, but I’m not exactly sure what. The answer might come if we see the mechanics that use this pool and how they use the die numbers in the Mystic.