Look, everyone here was so busy trying to stand up to a rude bully that people became rude. I say we all just take a deep breath and “settle our jimmies down” to borrow a line from Yurei.
Agreed? Quote chain if you agree please so we can all visibly agree to agree.
I suppose. The fun got ruined anyway 🤝
Please shake the quote chain with everyone else just for completeness sake. 😉
Look, everyone here was so busy trying to stand up to a rude bully that people became rude. I say we all just take a deep breath and “settle our jimmies down” to borrow a line from Yurei.
Agreed? Quote chain if you agree please so we can all visibly agree to agree.
I don't know how to do a virtual handshake, but I'm doing my best approximation in real life.
Agreed.
Thank you. When Levi and Atrome come back hopefully their jimmies will also be settled and then we can all agree and move forward.
Yep, I'm fine.
Stuff like this doesn't actually get me heated. Just taking a break to do something else.
Look, everyone here was so busy trying to stand up to a rude bully that people became rude. I say we all just take a deep breath and “settle our jimmies down” to borrow a line from Yurei.
Agreed? Quote chain if you agree please so we can all visibly agree to agree.
I don't know how to do a virtual handshake, but I'm doing my best approximation in real life.
Agreed.
Thank you. When Levi and Atrome come back hopefully their jimmies will also be settled and then we can all agree and move forward.
Yep, I'm fine.
Stuff like this doesn't actually get me heated. Just taking a break to do something else.
🤝
My computer can't do emojis unless I copy paste them, so here.
🤝
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
To get things rolling again I’m going to throw out an idea I have for Psionics.
Instead of having the base class be tied to an ability score, have it so that the subclasses, selected at first level, determine which ability score you use. For example, the classic Psionicist would be it’s own subclass and use Intelligence, while the Wilder subclass would make use of Charisma instead, and a Constitution based subclass would, thematically, suffer from headaches and nose bleeds?
With this idea you could theoretically create a subclass for each ability score, and because Psionics doesn’t get tied to any specific ability score, creating subclasses in the other base classes would be easier.
Wow, so this went a bit off the rails last night....
The argument seems to be done so I'm hesitant to touch it, but I feel like I need to say this one thing:
Sposta, I was not in any way offended by your "no thank you" response.
The psionics vs. spells debate has been going on for a long time, and that's exactly why I tried to point out in my original post that what I made does still use the spell/spell slot system. I knew from the outset that wouldn't appeal to everyone. Sposta asked for some clarification on my first post, I answered, and he decided it wasn't for him. And that's totally cool guys. Personally, I'd actually love to see a points based system. I tried it (a lot) and I couldn't get it to work, so I made something else. But that's not to say that it can't be done. I hope somebody does crack it, and if and when you do I'd love to see it.
Wow, so this went a bit off the rails last night....
The argument seems to be done so I'm hesitant to touch it, but I feel like I need to say this one thing:
Sposta, I was not in any way offended by your "no thank you" response.
The psionics vs. spells debate has been going on for a long time, and that's exactly why I tried to point out in my original post that what I made does still use the spell/spell slot system. I knew from the outset that wouldn't appeal to everyone. Sposta asked for some clarification on my first post, I answered, and he decided it wasn't for him. And that's totally cool guys. Personally, I'd actually love to see a points based system. I tried it (a lot) and I couldn't get it to work, so I made something else. But that's not to say that it can't be done. I hope somebody does crack it, and if and when you do I'd love to see it.
Cool. My next task was to clear the air with you. But now it seems we’re ahead of the game!
To get things rolling again I’m going to throw out an idea I have for Psionics.
Instead of having the base class be tied to an ability score, have it so that the subclasses, selected at first level, determine which ability score you use. For example, the classic Psionicist would be it’s own subclass and use Intelligence, while the Wilder subclass would make use of Charisma instead, and a Constitution based subclass would, thematically, suffer from headaches and nose bleeds?
With this idea you could theoretically create a subclass for each ability score, and because Psionics doesn’t get tied to any specific ability score, creating subclasses in the other base classes would be easier.
What do you all think?
Part of me likes it. That’s how it was in 2e. Part of me isn’t sure it would work in 5e, mostly because of the ridiculous number of Charisma classes we already have. But that’s not to say it won’t work.
You wouldn’t necessarily get a lot of Charisma subclasses in the base Psionic class. I can currently think of only two different Psions that would use it, the Wilder as I mentioned before, and the failed ceremorphosis Psions that Baldur’s Gate 3 seems to be going with. The rest would more likely be Intelligence or Wisdom based Psions, with a rare Strength, Dexterity or Constitution based Psion.
However, I can see more Charisma based subclasses in the other base classes.
The main goal of the my idea is that it would make the base Psionic class capable of covering the Psion who studied at a university, the Psion who achieved enlightenment, and the Psion who is self taught, and have the subclass features reflect that.
You wouldn’t necessarily get a lot of Charisma subclasses in the base Psionic class. I can currently think of only two different Psions that would use it, the Wilder as I mentioned before, and the failed ceremorphosis Psions that Baldur’s Gate 3 seems to be going with. The rest would more likely be Intelligence or Wisdom based Psions, with a rare Strength, Dexterity or Constitution based Psion.
However, I can see more Charisma based subclasses in the other base classes.
The main goal of the my idea is that it would make the base Psionic class capable of covering the Psion who studied at a university, the Psion who achieved enlightenment, and the Psion who is self taught.
I misunderstood you. Traditionally in D&D there are only 6 types of Psionicist, so there would only be 6 subclasses. I thought you meant using a different one of the 6 ability Scores each for one of the subclasses like it worked in 2e (there weren’t subclasses back then, it was more like schools of magic before there were “traditions.”)
Personally i would keep the Mystic’s idea of a Discipline that you get at character creation, but make them cover the 6 traditions for the playtest and initial release. This would keep the bloat and complexity down (the Mystic UA has something like 40 disciplines).
The studied Psion uses the Psychoportation Discipline to travel and thus learn more, the enlightened Psion is one with the universe thus can use Psychokinesis to pour another cup of tea, the self taught Psion has Telepathy and has been training to control when and where they broadcasting and receive thoughts.
I would chop down the list and make Discipline=Subclass. The traditional disciplines are psychokinesis, telepathy, psychoportation, psychometabolism, clairsentience, and a sixth one that has varied from edition to edition. I would just make it as simple as that.
I'm gonna pipe back in here, cause while we may disagree on an issue like psionics vs. spells, I think there's also a lot we can agree on as well. In this case, I agree with Sposta in regards to using Disciplines to define the Subclasses. It gives each subclass a very distinct thematic focus, and I think it also allows each discipline/subclass to have a somewhat distinct play style.
You guys also already hit the five traditional disciplines. In 3e/3.5e the sixth discipline was Metacreation, which overall I was not a fan of even though I did like the idea of Astral Constructs. What I would prefer to see is something that represents the idea of the spirit medium - the psychic with a natural connection to the spirit realms. That's actually what I did for my design and called it Spiritualism. Its powers don't reach into the divine or infernal, but they do reach into the border realms of the ethereal and the astral.
I'm gonna pipe back in here, cause while we may disagree on an issue like psionics vs. spells, I think there's also a lot we can agree on as well. In this case, I agree with Sposta in regards to using Disciplines to define the Subclasses. It gives each subclass a very distinct thematic focus, and I think it also allows each discipline/subclass to have a somewhat distinct play style.
You guys also already hit the five traditional disciplines. In 3e/3.5e the sixth discipline was Metacreation, which overall I was not a fan of even though I did like the idea of Astral Constructs. What I would prefer to see is something that represents the idea of the spirit medium - the psychic with a natural connection to the spirit realms. That's actually what I did for my design and called it Spiritualism. Its powers don't reach into the divine or infernal, but they do reach into the border realms of the ethereal and the astral.
My idea for the 6th was Psychopotentience (energy manipulation) I figured it this way:
Telepathy (mind)
Psychometabolism (body)
Clairsentience (perceive spacetime)
Psychoportation (move through spacetime)
Psychokinesis (mater)
Psychopotentience (energy)
And Metapsionics (the original 6th) would now be the “7th” discipline as a main-class discipline.
Yeah, I think we're all on board with the traditional five. Although I've just never liked the name Psychometabolism, the idea of mental manipulation of the body is a classic. But I don't see energy manipulation as really being part of the psionic repertoire. To me, and its just my opinion, that's more the domain of wizards and sorcerers. But a psion plagued by the whispers of spirits and voices from beyond the grave, that seems more in keeping to me with the way psychics are often portrayed in fiction and lore.
Yeah, I think we're all on board with the traditional five. Although I've just never liked the name Psychometabolism, the idea of mental manipulation of the body is a classic. But I don't see energy manipulation as really being part of the psionic repertoire. To me, and its just my opinion, that's more the domain of wizards and sorcerers. But a psion plagued by the whispers of spirits and voices from beyond the grave, that seems more in keeping to me with the way psychics are often portrayed in fiction and lore.
Energy manipulation is a classic. Like Firestarter, for example.
And I was including spirit mediumship with Telepathy/Clairsentience because it’s mind-mind or extrasensory.
Ahhh, gotcha. I see where you're coming from there and Firestarter is indeed a classic. But I guess I've always seen pyrokinesis as a subset of psychokinesis rather than as its own thing. I'd also be concerned that giving that kind of firepower to psions will overly step on the toes of the wizard and sorcerer.
Ahhh, gotcha. I see where you're coming from there and Firestarter is indeed a classic. But I guess I've always seen pyrokinesis as a subset of psychokinesis rather than as its own thing. I'd also be concerned that giving that kind of firepower to psions will overly step on the toes of the wizard and sorcerer.
Not just pyrokinesis, but other energy forms as well. And I don’t think it steps on spellcasters because they have a breadth of spells to chose from where the Psionicist would only have a limited number of “powers” that fall under an umbrella but each could have broader applications.
So instead of choosing a bunch of spells, if you went for the Psychopotentience Discipline (subclass) there would be maybe a half dozen powers from which to choose 3-4 over the course of 20 levels and one of those powers would be “Pyrokinesis.”
Every spellcaster can potentially manipulate fire in some way, even if it’s just Prestidigitation, or Searing Smite, so that alone is not enough to preclude other classes from from doing it. But instead of a shed load of spells that each let you manipulate fire in a different way, I would make it just one power that can manipulate fire in a shed load of ways. Those ways would start limited and then grow with class level, but still all just be the one power. With a half-dozen powers that work like that, it could be balanced with Spellcasting, be unique, and not step on anyone’s toes.
I would chop down the list and make Discipline=Subclass. The traditional disciplines are psychokinesis, telepathy, psychoportation, psychometabolism, clairsentience, and a sixth one that has varied from edition to edition. I would just make it as simple as that.
Fair enough.
also i only have the 2E Psionics Handbook and Ultimate Psionics on hand, but energy manipulation is covered by Psychokinesis. This is especially true if we go with the idea that psionic powers are SCIENCE! instead of being a mystical force.
I would chop down the list and make Discipline=Subclass. The traditional disciplines are psychokinesis, telepathy, psychoportation, psychometabolism, clairsentience, and a sixth one that has varied from edition to edition. I would just make it as simple as that.
Fair enough.
also i only have the 2E Psionics Handbook and Ultimate Psionics on hand, but energy manipulation is covered by Psychokinesis. This is especially true if we go with the idea that psionic powers are SCIENCE! instead of being a mystical force.
I know Pyrokinesis was included in Psychokineses. I have the original Complete Psionics Handbook from 2e, and the book from 3.5. I decided to shuffle things around. And I don’t think of it as “science” but more like... college crossed with superpowers.
Levi, I'm gad to hear that you're fine, and that I haven't overstepped my bounds.
Please shake the quote chain with everyone else just for completeness sake. 😉
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🤝
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My computer can't do emojis unless I copy paste them, so here.
🤝
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
To get things rolling again I’m going to throw out an idea I have for Psionics.
Instead of having the base class be tied to an ability score, have it so that the subclasses, selected at first level, determine which ability score you use. For example, the classic Psionicist would be it’s own subclass and use Intelligence, while the Wilder subclass would make use of Charisma instead, and a Constitution based subclass would, thematically, suffer from headaches and nose bleeds?
With this idea you could theoretically create a subclass for each ability score, and because Psionics doesn’t get tied to any specific ability score, creating subclasses in the other base classes would be easier.
What do you all think?
Wow, so this went a bit off the rails last night....
The argument seems to be done so I'm hesitant to touch it, but I feel like I need to say this one thing:
Sposta, I was not in any way offended by your "no thank you" response.
The psionics vs. spells debate has been going on for a long time, and that's exactly why I tried to point out in my original post that what I made does still use the spell/spell slot system. I knew from the outset that wouldn't appeal to everyone. Sposta asked for some clarification on my first post, I answered, and he decided it wasn't for him. And that's totally cool guys. Personally, I'd actually love to see a points based system. I tried it (a lot) and I couldn't get it to work, so I made something else. But that's not to say that it can't be done. I hope somebody does crack it, and if and when you do I'd love to see it.
Cool. My next task was to clear the air with you. But now it seems we’re ahead of the game!
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Part of me likes it. That’s how it was in 2e. Part of me isn’t sure it would work in 5e, mostly because of the ridiculous number of Charisma classes we already have. But that’s not to say it won’t work.
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You wouldn’t necessarily get a lot of Charisma subclasses in the base Psionic class. I can currently think of only two different Psions that would use it, the Wilder as I mentioned before, and the failed ceremorphosis Psions that Baldur’s Gate 3 seems to be going with. The rest would more likely be Intelligence or Wisdom based Psions, with a rare Strength, Dexterity or Constitution based Psion.
However, I can see more Charisma based subclasses in the other base classes.
The main goal of the my idea is that it would make the base Psionic class capable of covering the Psion who studied at a university, the Psion who achieved enlightenment, and the Psion who is self taught, and have the subclass features reflect that.
I misunderstood you. Traditionally in D&D there are only 6 types of Psionicist, so there would only be 6 subclasses. I thought you meant using a different one of the 6 ability Scores each for one of the subclasses like it worked in 2e (there weren’t subclasses back then, it was more like schools of magic before there were “traditions.”)
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Personally i would keep the Mystic’s idea of a Discipline that you get at character creation, but make them cover the 6 traditions for the playtest and initial release. This would keep the bloat and complexity down (the Mystic UA has something like 40 disciplines).
The studied Psion uses the Psychoportation Discipline to travel and thus learn more, the enlightened Psion is one with the universe thus can use Psychokinesis to pour another cup of tea, the self taught Psion has Telepathy and has been training to control when and where they broadcasting and receive thoughts.
I would chop down the list and make Discipline=Subclass. The traditional disciplines are psychokinesis, telepathy, psychoportation, psychometabolism, clairsentience, and a sixth one that has varied from edition to edition. I would just make it as simple as that.
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I'm gonna pipe back in here, cause while we may disagree on an issue like psionics vs. spells, I think there's also a lot we can agree on as well. In this case, I agree with Sposta in regards to using Disciplines to define the Subclasses. It gives each subclass a very distinct thematic focus, and I think it also allows each discipline/subclass to have a somewhat distinct play style.
You guys also already hit the five traditional disciplines. In 3e/3.5e the sixth discipline was Metacreation, which overall I was not a fan of even though I did like the idea of Astral Constructs. What I would prefer to see is something that represents the idea of the spirit medium - the psychic with a natural connection to the spirit realms. That's actually what I did for my design and called it Spiritualism. Its powers don't reach into the divine or infernal, but they do reach into the border realms of the ethereal and the astral.
My idea for the 6th was Psychopotentience (energy manipulation) I figured it this way:
And Metapsionics (the original 6th) would now be the “7th” discipline as a main-class discipline.
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Yeah, I think we're all on board with the traditional five. Although I've just never liked the name Psychometabolism, the idea of mental manipulation of the body is a classic. But I don't see energy manipulation as really being part of the psionic repertoire. To me, and its just my opinion, that's more the domain of wizards and sorcerers. But a psion plagued by the whispers of spirits and voices from beyond the grave, that seems more in keeping to me with the way psychics are often portrayed in fiction and lore.
Energy manipulation is a classic. Like Firestarter, for example.
And I was including spirit mediumship with Telepathy/Clairsentience because it’s mind-mind or extrasensory.
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Ahhh, gotcha. I see where you're coming from there and Firestarter is indeed a classic. But I guess I've always seen pyrokinesis as a subset of psychokinesis rather than as its own thing. I'd also be concerned that giving that kind of firepower to psions will overly step on the toes of the wizard and sorcerer.
Not just pyrokinesis, but other energy forms as well. And I don’t think it steps on spellcasters because they have a breadth of spells to chose from where the Psionicist would only have a limited number of “powers” that fall under an umbrella but each could have broader applications.
So instead of choosing a bunch of spells, if you went for the Psychopotentience Discipline (subclass) there would be maybe a half dozen powers from which to choose 3-4 over the course of 20 levels and one of those powers would be “Pyrokinesis.”
Every spellcaster can potentially manipulate fire in some way, even if it’s just Prestidigitation, or Searing Smite, so that alone is not enough to preclude other classes from from doing it. But instead of a shed load of spells that each let you manipulate fire in a different way, I would make it just one power that can manipulate fire in a shed load of ways. Those ways would start limited and then grow with class level, but still all just be the one power. With a half-dozen powers that work like that, it could be balanced with Spellcasting, be unique, and not step on anyone’s toes.
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Fair enough.
also i only have the 2E Psionics Handbook and Ultimate Psionics on hand, but energy manipulation is covered by Psychokinesis. This is especially true if we go with the idea that psionic powers are SCIENCE! instead of being a mystical force.
I know Pyrokinesis was included in Psychokineses. I have the original Complete Psionics Handbook from 2e, and the book from 3.5. I decided to shuffle things around. And I don’t think of it as “science” but more like... college crossed with superpowers.
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