If I have purchased Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, will the parts that appear in both books be considered "purchased" in E:RftLW? If so, what happens for people who hopped on and immediately pre-ordered the book? Asking for a friend...
(I know you guys don't know for sure yet what all is going to overlap. I'm asking what will happen with the stuff that does.)
Well, I own Xanathar's Guide, but if I go to look at the Sword Coast's Adventurer Guide, some subclasses are marked as already purchased, but I do not get a discount, either on the full book, or even just in buying the remaining subclasses. I don't see any reason for this to work any differently here.
I just watched Adam's video and checked the marketplace on DnDBeyond.com. It shows as following to me (as I did buy the previous content):
$29.99 $25.49 (discounted for previously purchased content).
Is this the final price? Will there be a further discount as DnDBeyond finds there is more overlap then they thought between content?
If I pre-order now and the price does change. Do I just get a credit from DnDBeyond.com (or a positive balance I can carry forward on my next purchase)?
Having not seen the content I don't know how beefy it will be. But it seems that the overlap would be more than just $4.50 worth?
Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those who gets everything on DnDBeyond.com, so I will buy it. I'm just trying to understand if timing my purchase (pre-order now or wait until closer to release date).
Thanks,
Envaris
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Yeah, I know that now. But it was pretty confusing that they launched a product and said it was a playtest and would receive updates as they worked through things. I think most people purchased it assuming it would get a final update and be the official AL legal product. (I know I did, and looking around at responses I wasn't alone.) So, it has the potential to burn some goodwill, and that could be pretty easily mitigated by a 50% off code or something for those that bought Wayfinder's.
At the very least they should update the content in Wayfinder's to bring it into line with the final content and declair it AL legal for the next season. That would at least be a good argument for why showing early support wasn't a waste of money.
In any case, this won't really impact my purchase of Last War. But it would help instill confidence for future beta product experiments.
I have no reason to believe that they won't update Wayfinder's as they promised. I'm not sure why you seem convinced that they won't. Wayfinder's has been legal for the Eberron "version" of season 8, which was seen as a playtest opportunity. I haven't seen anything about Eberron and season 9 yet, but then I don't follow AL that closely.
I'm assuming you bought the legendary bundle, which is the discount you are seeing. No one has said anything about discounts. Adam's video basically said that if you own Wayfinder's, and in the new book they update/change something, it will be reflected in what you've already purchased. So let's say the feat "Aberrant Dragonmark" is in the new book, but in that version, you get a second level sorcerer spell in addition to the first level and cantrip. After the release, even if you don't buy it, that feat will show the new version, even though the Wayfinder version just shows one cantrip/ one 1st level.
I'm assuming you bought the legendary bundle, which is the discount you are seeing. No one has said anything about discounts. Adam's video basically said that if you own Wayfinder's, and in the new book they update/change something, it will be reflected in what you've already purchased. So let's say the feat "Aberrant Dragonmark" is in the new book, but in that version, you get a second level sorcerer spell in addition to the first level and cantrip. After the release, even if you don't buy it, that feat will show the new version, even though the Wayfinder version just shows one cantrip/ one 1st level.
You are 100% right, that's the Legendary Bundle discount. For some reason my mind thought "previously bought content... oh Wayfinder?"
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After re-reading the same article, I understand more:
However, players shouldn't necessarily wait to buy Wayfinder's Guide because of possible print plans. "That [print] product will be built assuming that some fans own the Wayfinder’s Guide," Mearls said. "We’ll keep content overlap as low as we reasonably can."
So all along Wizard's never planned to bring WGTE to print. This was paid early access and you still have to buy the final product too.
My main concern is that this was not well articulated in the product description.
So I bought Wayfinders solely on the promise that when it became an official release I'd be getting the content updated to now official status.
But now it's a new and seperate product (see different name, so it's gotta be different) to heck with those that bought Wayfinder, come shell out another $30 for the rest of that book you thought you were buying?
Fine if there's new content, I'll pay for new content (shouldn't have to but jilt the end user) I'd really like to see a discount for already unlocked content.
I removed my remark about wanting a refund over this. I realize this was not DNDBeyond's decision. But they do have the ability to dial in on the specific content added by the new Eberron book. It would go a long way to have discounted options for buying this releas piecemeal (Races, Feats, Subraces, Magic Items) etc. Or just an additional discount on the book cost.
WGtE has always been called a "campaign prototype", a "living document", or just straight up a "here's how I play Eberron at my table" from Keith Baker. It's basically a highly endorsed DMsGuild/Patreon write-up by Keith Baker, and going back through all the release info, there never was any indication that it was going to print. At best it was a "maybe". The only promise I can see is that if and when the Artificer became official it would be given to Wayfinder owners. (Mike Mearles, according the Keith Baker's FAQ from last year) The idea that we should be given a new 200 page sourcebook for free because there is 10 pages of overlap is laughable.
True, and if anything I would say that D&D Beyond is doing all that they can within their licensing agreement to look out for their users. If you bought the wayfinder pdf from DMsGuild, you might not even get the option of updated skills/feats/ monsters/etc that are in both sources like they are planning to do here.
I have no reason to believe that they won't update Wayfinder's as they promised. I'm not sure why you seem convinced that they won't. Wayfinder's has been legal for the Eberron "version" of season 8, which was seen as a playtest opportunity. I haven't seen anything about Eberron and season 9 yet, but then I don't follow AL that closely.
AL has announced a new Eberron campaign, premiering at Gamehole Con.
The Wayfinder's guide PDF was around 140 pages. I'd be willing to bet that more than 10 pages are going to overlap as 30 pages are about the races alone and another 15- 20 on Dragonmarks. I'm fairly sure a lot of the Setting details will be catried over as well.
I'm not looking for free content. Just not having to buy a bunch of overlap to get the "Updates" to the "Living Document" consumers were promised.
WGtE has always been called a "campaign prototype", a "living document", or just straight up a "here's how I play Eberron at my table" from Keith Baker. It's basically a highly endorsed DMsGuild/Patreon write-up by Keith Baker, and going back through all the release info, there never was any indication that it was going to print. At best it was a "maybe". The only promise I can see is that if and when the Artificer became official it would be given to Wayfinder owners. (Mike Mearles, according the Keith Baker's FAQ from last year) The idea that we should be given a new 200 page sourcebook for free because there is 10 pages of overlap is laughable.
I agree. However, I wouldn't mind a 5% discount (10/200 = 5/100 = 5%). I mean throw me a bone :P
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Having eaten and cooled down some, what has happened is a failure of communication. Wizards never explicitly said that Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron would get published but the people who bought it (myself included) thought that when Wizards announced an Eberron setting book during The Descent that they meant WGTE was coming out of playtest.
Mike Mearls in an interview says that WGTE is separate from any print book that Wizards will produce, but this was not in the product description in D&D Beyond or DM's Guild.
What would have helped immensely was the following in the WGTE description:
The product is playtest content only. Future Eberron content will be published in a separate product that this does not grant any rights to. Buy this if you want an early preview of the rules to provide feedback for future product releases.
Would I have bought it anyway? Probably, but I would not be salty like I am now about it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm going to be a bit perturbed if it's just a copy and paste job, but just looking at my 3.5 books (that I use for my current campaign as supplements) there is 70 pages of Eberron info about the 4 races in the "Races of Eberron" book, another 27 pages on the same races in the "Eberron Campaign Setting" book, and an additional 22 in the "Players Guide to Eberron" book. Decent amount of repeat info, but each gives something new. Trying to say that 1: there is plenty of new stuff that could/should be added in the official book, and 2: This is very normal for D&D. If anything, the approach they're taking in 5e seems to be to eliminate as much repeat info as possible. (And for anyone that has played previous editions, repeat info was rampant)
So I've been reading around on this and here's my take on what's going on with this:
WGTE was/is a living document, which is WotC speak for paid playtest material
There was talk of a print on demand option if the digital sales showe demand for it. Evidently they did not.
They always said that if they released an Eberron hardback (that wasn't WGTE PoD) it'd overlap, but be distinct from WGTE
ERftLW will include some overlap with WGTE, predominantly in the rules/crunch areas.
If any of the options available in WGTE appear and get updated in ERftLW, you will get the updated version if you only own WGTE. So if they change the Envory Warforged to no longer allow you to integrate a vehicle as your tool, that'll show up for you
Important note: this will show up in your listing for the race/item/whatever, not in the compendium. So if you go to the warforged entry in WGTE for example, it'll look the same, but if you go to it's dedicated page or view it in the character builder, it'll appear as the updated version
Artificer will be added to WGTE
ERftLW is a much bigger book (some 300+ pages) and includes a campaign that focuses on the Mournlands. WGTE is a smaller, more broad setting guide. From the sounds of it, having both will give you the most complete idea of the setting, but you don't need both.
ERftLW will have new art and new monsters, something WGTE did not.
Mike Mearls of WOTC said when Wayfinders was released that there might be a follow-up Eberron hardcover. If there was, he said there would be some overlap in crunch (e.g. the artificer, races, etc.), but that the fluff/additional content would not overlap much, specifically so that folks felt like they were getting new/different material.
Sounds like a way to charge people twice for the same content, or falsely inflate content for increased pricing.
Yeah I'm just going to chime in and say I'm equally disappointed. I bought WGtE because of the living document thing, but then Wizards decides to 180 and say we gotta buy this shinier bigger book to get stuff we were promised in WGtE..... Yeah.... a discount would be real nice.
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Well, I own Xanathar's Guide, but if I go to look at the Sword Coast's Adventurer Guide, some subclasses are marked as already purchased, but I do not get a discount, either on the full book, or even just in buying the remaining subclasses. I don't see any reason for this to work any differently here.
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We don't know yet if Rising will get it "first." For all we know, WGTE could be updated before Rising's release, or at the same time.
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Hi,
I just watched Adam's video and checked the marketplace on DnDBeyond.com. It shows as following to me (as I did buy the previous content):
$29.99$25.49 (discounted for previously purchased content).Is this the final price? Will there be a further discount as DnDBeyond finds there is more overlap then they thought between content?
If I pre-order now and the price does change. Do I just get a credit from DnDBeyond.com (or a positive balance I can carry forward on my next purchase)?
Having not seen the content I don't know how beefy it will be. But it seems that the overlap would be more than just $4.50 worth?
Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those who gets everything on DnDBeyond.com, so I will buy it. I'm just trying to understand if timing my purchase (pre-order now or wait until closer to release date).
Thanks,
Envaris
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I have no reason to believe that they won't update Wayfinder's as they promised. I'm not sure why you seem convinced that they won't. Wayfinder's has been legal for the Eberron "version" of season 8, which was seen as a playtest opportunity. I haven't seen anything about Eberron and season 9 yet, but then I don't follow AL that closely.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
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I'm assuming you bought the legendary bundle, which is the discount you are seeing. No one has said anything about discounts. Adam's video basically said that if you own Wayfinder's, and in the new book they update/change something, it will be reflected in what you've already purchased. So let's say the feat "Aberrant Dragonmark" is in the new book, but in that version, you get a second level sorcerer spell in addition to the first level and cantrip. After the release, even if you don't buy it, that feat will show the new version, even though the Wayfinder version just shows one cantrip/ one 1st level.
You are 100% right, that's the Legendary Bundle discount. For some reason my mind thought "previously bought content... oh Wayfinder?"
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
After re-reading the same article, I understand more:
So all along Wizard's never planned to bring WGTE to print. This was paid early access and you still have to buy the final product too.
My main concern is that this was not well articulated in the product description.
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Hell, getting it at a discount would be nice. Take off the price of the races and stuff from WGtE when we purchase this thing.
If they give us an option for the good cover I'm considering getting it physical as well... because I'm a dork and still like physical stuff.
So I bought Wayfinders solely on the promise that when it became an official release I'd be getting the content updated to now official status.
But now it's a new and seperate product (see different name, so it's gotta be different) to heck with those that bought Wayfinder, come shell out another $30 for the rest of that book you thought you were buying?
Fine if there's new content, I'll pay for new content (shouldn't have to but jilt the end user) I'd really like to see a discount for already unlocked content.
I removed my remark about wanting a refund over this. I realize this was not DNDBeyond's decision. But they do have the ability to dial in on the specific content added by the new Eberron book. It would go a long way to have discounted options for buying this releas piecemeal (Races, Feats, Subraces, Magic Items) etc. Or just an additional discount on the book cost.
Watching the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNTeJCoY6BE video halped cool me off quite a bit on this.
WGtE has always been called a "campaign prototype", a "living document", or just straight up a "here's how I play Eberron at my table" from Keith Baker. It's basically a highly endorsed DMsGuild/Patreon write-up by Keith Baker, and going back through all the release info, there never was any indication that it was going to print. At best it was a "maybe". The only promise I can see is that if and when the Artificer became official it would be given to Wayfinder owners. (Mike Mearles, according the Keith Baker's FAQ from last year) The idea that we should be given a new 200 page sourcebook for free because there is 10 pages of overlap is laughable.
This isn't D&D Beyond fault though, this is on Wizards. D&D Beyond are just offering SKUs that Wizards provides to them.
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True, and if anything I would say that D&D Beyond is doing all that they can within their licensing agreement to look out for their users. If you bought the wayfinder pdf from DMsGuild, you might not even get the option of updated skills/feats/ monsters/etc that are in both sources like they are planning to do here.
AL has announced a new Eberron campaign, premiering at Gamehole Con.
http://dndadventurersleague.org/new-guides-for-the-last-war/
The Wayfinder's guide PDF was around 140 pages. I'd be willing to bet that more than 10 pages are going to overlap as 30 pages are about the races alone and another 15- 20 on Dragonmarks. I'm fairly sure a lot of the Setting details will be catried over as well.
I'm not looking for free content. Just not having to buy a bunch of overlap to get the "Updates" to the "Living Document" consumers were promised.
I agree. However, I wouldn't mind a 5% discount (10/200 = 5/100 = 5%). I mean throw me a bone :P
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Having eaten and cooled down some, what has happened is a failure of communication. Wizards never explicitly said that Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron would get published but the people who bought it (myself included) thought that when Wizards announced an Eberron setting book during The Descent that they meant WGTE was coming out of playtest.
Mike Mearls in an interview says that WGTE is separate from any print book that Wizards will produce, but this was not in the product description in D&D Beyond or DM's Guild.
What would have helped immensely was the following in the WGTE description:
The product is playtest content only. Future Eberron content will be published in a separate product that this does not grant any rights to. Buy this if you want an early preview of the rules to provide feedback for future product releases.
Would I have bought it anyway? Probably, but I would not be salty like I am now about it.
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My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
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Don't get me wrong... I'm going to be a bit perturbed if it's just a copy and paste job, but just looking at my 3.5 books (that I use for my current campaign as supplements) there is 70 pages of Eberron info about the 4 races in the "Races of Eberron" book, another 27 pages on the same races in the "Eberron Campaign Setting" book, and an additional 22 in the "Players Guide to Eberron" book. Decent amount of repeat info, but each gives something new. Trying to say that 1: there is plenty of new stuff that could/should be added in the official book, and 2: This is very normal for D&D. If anything, the approach they're taking in 5e seems to be to eliminate as much repeat info as possible. (And for anyone that has played previous editions, repeat info was rampant)
So I've been reading around on this and here's my take on what's going on with this:
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Sounds like a way to charge people twice for the same content, or falsely inflate content for increased pricing.
Yeah I'm just going to chime in and say I'm equally disappointed. I bought WGtE because of the living document thing, but then Wizards decides to 180 and say we gotta buy this shinier bigger book to get stuff we were promised in WGtE..... Yeah.... a discount would be real nice.