Hi, I have a dragonborn player who wanted to breath his lightning line, then attack with an offhand weapon. I wasn't sure about that but let it happen just to keep things from slowing down. What do you think?
Short answer, no. The bonus attack for a second weapon triggers off using the "Attack action" (with a light weapon etc). The lightning breath might be considered an attack for other purposes, but it is definitely not the Attack action. Probably not a world-breaking house rule if you're happy to let them do it though.
Quick judgment is imperative for a smooth experience in play! :D
In this case, the dragonborn can't actually do both, however (unless you allow it. You're the DM. :p ).
The Dragonborn breath weapon has this line: "You can use your action to exhale destructive energy." This makes it an action, but it's not an Attack action.
Two weapon fighting starts with "When you take the Attack action", which means it can't be used with miscellaneous actions (not even actions that actually provide weapon attacks).
It's not an attack either. An attack involves an attack roll.
Well, not always. A grapple and a shove are both attacks which don't. When I said it might be considered an attack I was referring to the many diffent spells or other situations which contain text like "if the target is attacked or damaged" and such like. Most of the time those are clear and decisive, but other times not so much. If I was secretly wearing an amulet of immunity to lightning, then someone breathed lightning on me (without causing damage or rolling an attack die) I would still consider myself to have been attacked and I would react accordingly. But yes, it is not an attack in the strictest sense.
Personally, I'd allow it if I was DMing, but I can see the arguments against it, and it does technically go against RAW. It's your table though, just rule whatever you are most comfortable with.
I would say you would have to view it as the spell form too. Because it’s a bonus with the new stuff in my group; we always use it as an “after attack” that you don’t roll for. Most of this is given to our melee fighters. Given that a person with two weapon fighting can do 2 attacks to begin with this would make the dragon breath a third attack.
In what you said though I would let them do the breath weapon and an attack, I think you maybe saying offhanded weapon threw some people through a loop though.
With my wizard, I have done a spell attack run up and use a breath weapon and I believe the spell shadow blade, it’s like an off hand dagger. Both of the dragon breath and shadow dagger are bonuses so I let them get away with them just to use them up. In this case though you have to remember to account for all the spell slots used.
Some solid two year thread necromancy here. You do roll for damage, but you make no attack roll therefore breath weapons are not considered attacks. This is also why some people play them as not breaking invisibility as well.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
You can use your action to exhale destructive energy. Your draconic ancestry determines the size, shape, and damage type of the exhalation. When you use your breath weapon, each creature in the area of the exhalation must make a saving throw, the type of which is determined by your draconic ancestry. The DC for this saving throw equals 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus. A creature takes 2d6 damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The damage increases to 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 11th level, and 5d6 at 16th level. After you use your breath weapon, you can’t use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
TWF demands that, first and foremost, you take the Attack action. Using a Dragonborn's breath weapon is not the Attack action, full stop.
Going further (not that it's needed), a Dragonborn's breath weapon is not a one-handed melee weapon with the Light weapon property either. They are entirely incompatible.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is what it says in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.
Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Metallic Ancestry.
So with 2 attacks can you do your Breath Weapon then attack with a melee with the 2nd attack action?
This is what it says in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.
Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Metallic Ancestry.
So with 2 attacks can you do your Breath Weapon then attack with a melee with the 2nd attack action?
Where in that book? In a specific player race section, in a monster description?
This is what it says in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.
Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Metallic Ancestry.
So with 2 attacks can you do your Breath Weapon then attack with a melee with the 2nd attack action?
Where in that book? In a specific player race section, in a monster description?
I'm not the one who posted it but this is indeed the text for the Breath weapon for Dragonborn races in Fizbans. It comes from creating your character in chapter 1 for player facing dragonborn races.
Chromatic, Gem and Metallic dragonborn share the same description in terms of using the Attack action but the effects vary.
Chromatic: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide."
Gem: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone."
Metallic: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone."
All are d10 damage scaling like a cantrip and usable proficiency times/long rest.
So for these dragon born at least, they can use the breath weapon with two weapon fighting and any other effect that triggers on taking the Attack action. The modifications are not retroactively applied to the PHB dragonborn.
Yes, this thread originated 5 years ago and was necro'ed 2+ years ago, before Fizban's was out. Dragonborn breath was changed in how it functions because frankly it was quite bad. And it's still not great for casters.
But no one here is wrong, the game just changed. Not sure it was worth digging up the old thread unless it was showing up in goggle results or something.
So for these dragon born at least, they can use the breath weapon with two weapon fighting and any other effect that triggers on taking the Attack action. The modifications are not retroactively applied to the PHB dragonborn.
Two-weapon fighting doesn't require only taking the Attack action; it also requires making an attack, which the breath weapon still is not. If you have Extra Attack you can use one of them to make an attack that qualifies you for TWF and the other to activate your breath weapon, but for classes without Extra Attack, you can't use your breath weapon with TWF.
So for these dragon born at least, they can use the breath weapon with two weapon fighting and any other effect that triggers on taking the Attack action. The modifications are not retroactively applied to the PHB dragonborn.
Two-weapon fighting doesn't require only taking the Attack action; it also requires making an attack, which the breath weapon still is not. If you have Extra Attack you can use one of them to make an attack that qualifies you for TWF and the other to activate your breath weapon, but for classes without Extra Attack, you can't use your breath weapon with TWF.
True. However a dragon born with extra attack now has the option to use their breath weapon, attack with a light melee weapon as their second attack and then make a two weapon fighting attack. Similarly, a level 5+ dragon born monk could attack with the breath weapon, attack with a weapon and then use their martial arts feature as a bonus action.
It also allows the character to do anything that only has the Attack action as a prerequisite - just not something that specifically calls for an attack with a weapon.
I was also wrong to state that taking the Attack action was sufficient to trigger two weapon fighting - it also needs an actual attack with a light weapon.
P.S. I didn't necro the thread, just replied to a request for where to find the text of the rule in Fizban's and commented that it will allow some combinations with the breath weapon that were previously not possible. I wish they would errata the PHB with some of these changes instead of keeping it sacrosanct.
Divine favor is for weapon attacks and fizban dragonborn (chromatic/etc) Says attack action can be replaced with a breath weapon.
I would say no but hey if it does work it could be so wild aoe damage for divine favor. Another thing to add. Two weapon fighting requires. Light weapon attack to use the bonus action to attack with another light weapon. Unless you have the feat which allows martial weapons that are not heavy.
Hi, I have a dragonborn player who wanted to breath his lightning line, then attack with an offhand weapon. I wasn't sure about that but let it happen just to keep things from slowing down. What do you think?
Short answer, no. The bonus attack for a second weapon triggers off using the "Attack action" (with a light weapon etc). The lightning breath might be considered an attack for other purposes, but it is definitely not the Attack action. Probably not a world-breaking house rule if you're happy to let them do it though.
Quick judgment is imperative for a smooth experience in play! :D
In this case, the dragonborn can't actually do both, however (unless you allow it. You're the DM. :p ).
The Dragonborn breath weapon has this line: "You can use your action to exhale destructive energy." This makes it an action, but it's not an Attack action.
Two weapon fighting starts with "When you take the Attack action", which means it can't be used with miscellaneous actions (not even actions that actually provide weapon attacks).
Personally, I'd allow it if I was DMing, but I can see the arguments against it, and it does technically go against RAW. It's your table though, just rule whatever you are most comfortable with.
There's always a "not always" in D&D's rules ;) I was giving the general rule.
I view it as an attack only because you have to recharge it
I don't know the rule, but watching Mercer on YouTube - He treats PC Breath Weapon as a bonus action in his "Lost City of Omu series".
Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.
I would say you would have to view it as the spell form too. Because it’s a bonus with the new stuff in my group; we always use it as an “after attack” that you don’t roll for. Most of this is given to our melee fighters. Given that a person with two weapon fighting can do 2 attacks to begin with this would make the dragon breath a third attack.
In what you said though I would let them do the breath weapon and an attack, I think you maybe saying offhanded weapon threw some people through a loop though.
With my wizard, I have done a spell attack run up and use a breath weapon and I believe the spell shadow blade, it’s like an off hand dagger. Both of the dragon breath and shadow dagger are bonuses so I let them get away with them just to use them up. In this case though you have to remember to account for all the spell slots used.
You do roll for it tho a 2d6 and it keeps increasing as you lvl.
Some solid two year thread necromancy here. You do roll for damage, but you make no attack roll therefore breath weapons are not considered attacks. This is also why some people play them as not breaking invisibility as well.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
No, it absolutely does not ever count for TWF:
TWF demands that, first and foremost, you take the Attack action. Using a Dragonborn's breath weapon is not the Attack action, full stop.
Going further (not that it's needed), a Dragonborn's breath weapon is not a one-handed melee weapon with the Light weapon property either. They are entirely incompatible.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is what it says in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons.
Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw (DC = 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature takes 1d10 damage of the type associated with your Metallic Ancestry.
So with 2 attacks can you do your Breath Weapon then attack with a melee with the 2nd attack action?
Where in that book? In a specific player race section, in a monster description?
I'm not the one who posted it but this is indeed the text for the Breath weapon for Dragonborn races in Fizbans. It comes from creating your character in chapter 1 for player facing dragonborn races.
Chromatic, Gem and Metallic dragonborn share the same description in terms of using the Attack action but the effects vary.
Chromatic: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide."
Gem: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone."
Metallic: "Breath Weapon. When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of your attacks with an exhalation of magical energy in a 15-foot cone."
All are d10 damage scaling like a cantrip and usable proficiency times/long rest.
So for these dragon born at least, they can use the breath weapon with two weapon fighting and any other effect that triggers on taking the Attack action. The modifications are not retroactively applied to the PHB dragonborn.
Yes, this thread originated 5 years ago and was necro'ed 2+ years ago, before Fizban's was out. Dragonborn breath was changed in how it functions because frankly it was quite bad. And it's still not great for casters.
But no one here is wrong, the game just changed. Not sure it was worth digging up the old thread unless it was showing up in goggle results or something.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Two-weapon fighting doesn't require only taking the Attack action; it also requires making an attack, which the breath weapon still is not. If you have Extra Attack you can use one of them to make an attack that qualifies you for TWF and the other to activate your breath weapon, but for classes without Extra Attack, you can't use your breath weapon with TWF.
True. However a dragon born with extra attack now has the option to use their breath weapon, attack with a light melee weapon as their second attack and then make a two weapon fighting attack. Similarly, a level 5+ dragon born monk could attack with the breath weapon, attack with a weapon and then use their martial arts feature as a bonus action.
It also allows the character to do anything that only has the Attack action as a prerequisite - just not something that specifically calls for an attack with a weapon.
I was also wrong to state that taking the Attack action was sufficient to trigger two weapon fighting - it also needs an actual attack with a light weapon.
P.S. I didn't necro the thread, just replied to a request for where to find the text of the rule in Fizban's and commented that it will allow some combinations with the breath weapon that were previously not possible. I wish they would errata the PHB with some of these changes instead of keeping it sacrosanct.
Will this work with divine favor.
Divine favor is for weapon attacks and fizban dragonborn (chromatic/etc) Says attack action can be replaced with a breath weapon.
I would say no but hey if it does work it could be so wild aoe damage for divine favor. Another thing to add. Two weapon fighting requires. Light weapon attack to use the bonus action to attack with another light weapon. Unless you have the feat which allows martial weapons that are not heavy.