The fighter has dice, the celestial warlock has dice, the rogue's dice are now resources, the bard has dice.
Just stop. Stop adding all these extraneous resources and just give features or give new options to already existing resources.
I don't want to have 6 different kinds of resources to manage, an half of them are just "dice", Not even dice that are representative as a resource on the damned platform you want everyone to use. Just clickety clack dice. It's incredibly uninspired.
I love dice! Dice are great! You're playing a TTRPG and you hate dice?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
What kind of multi-multiclass character are you making that you've got 6 kinds of resources to manage?
I'm not but if I was.... I could do a sorcerer/warlock with the warlock being celestial and I have 5 already between sorcerer spell slots, warlock spell slots, invocations, sorcery points and the dice that that celestial warlocks get.
I could double down on different types of dice if I want a bard battlemaster with weapons masteries, superiority dice, each level have to track my maneuvers, have bard spell slots my bardic inspiration dice, and am I forgetting anything?
My point is, it's getting ridiculous how many different resources we're just creating to add to classes. The dice themselves are just "ok, so you can add a die to any other roll" (like bardic inspiration was), which is uncreative and kind of lazy way of "adding new features".
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Combining resource pools for different abilities of different power levels would be a TERRIBLY idea that would absolutely wreck the balance.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Ah, yes. Because that has worked so well for the 5e monk. Players love having to choose between being able to use their class features or being able to use their subclass features!
It's not fun, and to make it work you need to either compromise all the features so that expending X amount of resource on one feature is roughly as good as spending X amount on any other feature, or you just throw balance out the window and end up with a class that has essentially one feature it uses while the others just aren't worth the resource expenditure.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
You're right and you may have a point. I feel as though there's still better options/compromises than the way they are being executed.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
But is the solution to add yet another resource, or actually fix the god damned class and it's options?
In 5e, the bard always had Bardic Inspiration. The Battle Master Fighter always had superiority dice. The Celestial Warlock (for the 6 years it's existed) always had the Healing Light dice.
This is the first time I've ever seen any complaint about any of them using dice.
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
I'm not exactly upset about rolling lots of dice. I'm upset at the ever increasing number of things to track and keep record of. Compounding that is that a lot of these features are reliant on just "dice" that you're given as random power boosts for random things.
It feels.lazy compared to giving actual new abilities or mechanics. It also feels like an unnecessary resource, and where as it fits for bards, it really is out of place representatively from the places where they use them. Even with the last UA, the cunning strike is a trade off that doesn't induce use, or could have been introduced in a way that doesn't use sneak attack dice as resources while still giving costs.
With the celestial, you could just give a smaller die or a flat number to boost healing and have it a set number of times, similar to the life cleric's always on max heal ability, though less powerful.
You could also use points for certain abilities, and make them more consistent and if it's an existing die roll, those "points" could be traded for just getting simple advantage on a roll.
Using dice as a resource and flat ot defining it as dice breaks game immersion as well, and when you trade those nebulous "dice" for straight effects (as some of the fighter features and celestial warlock do) l, are they really dice or are they points and you're just being lazy defining them as dice?
Furthermore D&D is NOT a dice as a resource game. There ARE dice as resources games out there, but they are far more adept and mechanically integrated as such than D&D will allow.
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
I'm not exactly upset about rolling lots of dice. I'm upset at the ever increasing number of things to track and keep record of. Compounding that is that a lot of these features are reliant on just "dice" that you're given as random power boosts for random things.
It feels.lazy compared to giving actual new abilities or mechanics. It also feels like an unnecessary resource, and where as it fits for bards, it really is out of place representatively from the places where they use them. Even with the last UA, the cunning strike is a trade off that doesn't induce use, or could have been introduced in a way that doesn't use sneak attack dice as resources while still giving costs.
With the celestial, you could just give a smaller die or a flat number to boost healing and have it a set number of times, similar to the life cleric's always on max heal ability, though less powerful.
You could also use points for certain abilities, and make them more consistent and if it's an existing die roll, those "points" could be traded for just getting simple advantage on a roll.
Using dice as a resource and flat ot defining it as dice breaks game immersion as well, and when you trade those nebulous "dice" for straight effects (as some of the fighter features and celestial warlock do) l, are they really dice or are they points and you're just being lazy defining them as dice?
Furthermore D&D is NOT a dice as a resource game. There ARE dice as resources games out there, but they are far more adept and mechanically integrated as such than D&D will allow.
How is using dice as a resource "lazy"? And how does it break immersion? These are assertions that are subjective at best. Also how do you judge what is "necessary" in this game and what isn't? Practically anything in this game can be changed to suit the game you're playing.
Furthermore, it is not hard to keep track of a small number of dice and two pact slots for most of the game. It is not hard to remember that your Battle Master has these number of specific dice they can use to do cool stuff when they bonk someone.
Not to mention, you literally have a dice pool mechanic right from the get-go with Hit Dice.
The fighter has dice, the celestial warlock has dice, the rogue's dice are now resources, the bard has dice.
Just stop. Stop adding all these extraneous resources and just give features or give new options to already existing resources.
I don't want to have 6 different kinds of resources to manage, an half of them are just "dice", Not even dice that are representative as a resource on the damned platform you want everyone to use. Just clickety clack dice. It's incredibly uninspired.
What kind of multi-multiclass character are you making that you've got 6 kinds of resources to manage?
I love dice! Dice are great! You're playing a TTRPG and you hate dice?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
What does any of this mean? You don't like the concept of resources, or you just want a unique name for each one?
What exactly do you want from the Celestial Warlock? The healing would never get used if it was fueled by their already existing resource.
I'm not but if I was.... I could do a sorcerer/warlock with the warlock being celestial and I have 5 already between sorcerer spell slots, warlock spell slots, invocations, sorcery points and the dice that that celestial warlocks get.
I could double down on different types of dice if I want a bard battlemaster with weapons masteries, superiority dice, each level have to track my maneuvers, have bard spell slots my bardic inspiration dice, and am I forgetting anything?
My point is, it's getting ridiculous how many different resources we're just creating to add to classes. The dice themselves are just "ok, so you can add a die to any other roll" (like bardic inspiration was), which is uncreative and kind of lazy way of "adding new features".
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Combining resource pools for different abilities of different power levels would be a TERRIBLY idea that would absolutely wreck the balance.
Ah, yes. Because that has worked so well for the 5e monk. Players love having to choose between being able to use their class features or being able to use their subclass features!
It's not fun, and to make it work you need to either compromise all the features so that expending X amount of resource on one feature is roughly as good as spending X amount on any other feature, or you just throw balance out the window and end up with a class that has essentially one feature it uses while the others just aren't worth the resource expenditure.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
You're right and you may have a point. I feel as though there's still better options/compromises than the way they are being executed.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
But is the solution to add yet another resource, or actually fix the god damned class and it's options?
In 5e, the bard always had Bardic Inspiration. The Battle Master Fighter always had superiority dice. The Celestial Warlock (for the 6 years it's existed) always had the Healing Light dice.
This is the first time I've ever seen any complaint about any of them using dice.
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm not exactly upset about rolling lots of dice. I'm upset at the ever increasing number of things to track and keep record of. Compounding that is that a lot of these features are reliant on just "dice" that you're given as random power boosts for random things.
It feels.lazy compared to giving actual new abilities or mechanics. It also feels like an unnecessary resource, and where as it fits for bards, it really is out of place representatively from the places where they use them. Even with the last UA, the cunning strike is a trade off that doesn't induce use, or could have been introduced in a way that doesn't use sneak attack dice as resources while still giving costs.
With the celestial, you could just give a smaller die or a flat number to boost healing and have it a set number of times, similar to the life cleric's always on max heal ability, though less powerful.
You could also use points for certain abilities, and make them more consistent and if it's an existing die roll, those "points" could be traded for just getting simple advantage on a roll.
Using dice as a resource and flat ot defining it as dice breaks game immersion as well, and when you trade those nebulous "dice" for straight effects (as some of the fighter features and celestial warlock do) l, are they really dice or are they points and you're just being lazy defining them as dice?
Furthermore D&D is NOT a dice as a resource game. There ARE dice as resources games out there, but they are far more adept and mechanically integrated as such than D&D will allow.
Fair enough.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I love having multiple resources to track. 🤷♂️
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How is using dice as a resource "lazy"? And how does it break immersion? These are assertions that are subjective at best. Also how do you judge what is "necessary" in this game and what isn't? Practically anything in this game can be changed to suit the game you're playing.
Furthermore, it is not hard to keep track of a small number of dice and two pact slots for most of the game. It is not hard to remember that your Battle Master has these number of specific dice they can use to do cool stuff when they bonk someone.
Not to mention, you literally have a dice pool mechanic right from the get-go with Hit Dice.
I just can’t wait until they start doing dice chains and shifting them up and down…
What?
Oh. Just me?
*sigh* Typical. Now I gotta wait ten years for 6e…
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