The fighter has dice, the celestial warlock has dice, the rogue's dice are now resources, the bard has dice.
Just stop. Stop adding all these extraneous resources and just give features or give new options to already existing resources.
I don't want to have 6 different kinds of resources to manage, an half of them are just "dice", Not even dice that are representative as a resource on the damned platform you want everyone to use. Just clickety clack dice. It's incredibly uninspired.
I love dice! Dice are great! You're playing a TTRPG and you hate dice?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
What kind of multi-multiclass character are you making that you've got 6 kinds of resources to manage?
I'm not but if I was.... I could do a sorcerer/warlock with the warlock being celestial and I have 5 already between sorcerer spell slots, warlock spell slots, invocations, sorcery points and the dice that that celestial warlocks get.
I could double down on different types of dice if I want a bard battlemaster with weapons masteries, superiority dice, each level have to track my maneuvers, have bard spell slots my bardic inspiration dice, and am I forgetting anything?
My point is, it's getting ridiculous how many different resources we're just creating to add to classes. The dice themselves are just "ok, so you can add a die to any other roll" (like bardic inspiration was), which is uncreative and kind of lazy way of "adding new features".
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Combining resource pools for different abilities of different power levels would be a TERRIBLY idea that would absolutely wreck the balance.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
Ah, yes. Because that has worked so well for the 5e monk. Players love having to choose between being able to use their class features or being able to use their subclass features!
It's not fun, and to make it work you need to either compromise all the features so that expending X amount of resource on one feature is roughly as good as spending X amount on any other feature, or you just throw balance out the window and end up with a class that has essentially one feature it uses while the others just aren't worth the resource expenditure.
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
You're right and you may have a point. I feel as though there's still better options/compromises than the way they are being executed.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
But is the solution to add yet another resource, or actually fix the god damned class and it's options?
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
I'm not exactly upset about rolling lots of dice. I'm upset at the ever increasing number of things to track and keep record of. Compounding that is that a lot of these features are reliant on just "dice" that you're given as random power boosts for random things.
It feels.lazy compared to giving actual new abilities or mechanics. It also feels like an unnecessary resource, and where as it fits for bards, it really is out of place representatively from the places where they use them. Even with the last UA, the cunning strike is a trade off that doesn't induce use, or could have been introduced in a way that doesn't use sneak attack dice as resources while still giving costs.
With the celestial, you could just give a smaller die or a flat number to boost healing and have it a set number of times, similar to the life cleric's always on max heal ability, though less powerful.
You could also use points for certain abilities, and make them more consistent and if it's an existing die roll, those "points" could be traded for just getting simple advantage on a roll.
Using dice as a resource and flat ot defining it as dice breaks game immersion as well, and when you trade those nebulous "dice" for straight effects (as some of the fighter features and celestial warlock do) l, are they really dice or are they points and you're just being lazy defining them as dice?
Furthermore D&D is NOT a dice as a resource game. There ARE dice as resources games out there, but they are far more adept and mechanically integrated as such than D&D will allow.
I just can’t wait until they start doing dice chains and shifting them up and down…
What?
Oh. Just me?
*sigh* Typical. Now I gotta wait ten years for 6e…
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I just can’t wait until they start doing dice chains and shifting them up and down…
What?
Oh. Just me?
*sigh* Typical. Now I gotta wait ten years for 6e…
chains? ungh....... Why don't we ask some of the MtG side how they like dice dependent cards like some of the "if you roll a 20, reroll" mechanics their DnD sets had...
Actually a recent stop into a game shop, and a guy was recommending a game where you eventually trade out for different sides on the dice, and they had these little clip on tiles... I think THIS is the new way to incorporate marketability of dice and new mechanics into D&D....(teh game actually sounded fun on its own and I may have to go back for it at some point..)
I love dice! Dice are great! You're playing a TTRPG and you hate dice?
I keep Amazon wealthy from all of the red and orange polyhedral dice that I buy from them. I also bought a nice pen/pencil case from them to hold my dice. I also bought my leatherette dice cup there as well. (I just have to watch my dice carefully as otherwise my DM's housecats (Austin and Eclipse) will play with the d20s). Though, I once bought a very large foam d20 that has the housecats spooked--it is almost as big as one of them.
In the past, there was a fantasy role playing game from one of TSR/Wizards competitors called "Dragon Quest". This game used only percentile and d10 dice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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The fighter has dice, the celestial warlock has dice, the rogue's dice are now resources, the bard has dice.
Just stop. Stop adding all these extraneous resources and just give features or give new options to already existing resources.
I don't want to have 6 different kinds of resources to manage, an half of them are just "dice", Not even dice that are representative as a resource on the damned platform you want everyone to use. Just clickety clack dice. It's incredibly uninspired.
What kind of multi-multiclass character are you making that you've got 6 kinds of resources to manage?
I love dice! Dice are great! You're playing a TTRPG and you hate dice?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
What does any of this mean? You don't like the concept of resources, or you just want a unique name for each one?
What exactly do you want from the Celestial Warlock? The healing would never get used if it was fueled by their already existing resource.
I'm not but if I was.... I could do a sorcerer/warlock with the warlock being celestial and I have 5 already between sorcerer spell slots, warlock spell slots, invocations, sorcery points and the dice that that celestial warlocks get.
I could double down on different types of dice if I want a bard battlemaster with weapons masteries, superiority dice, each level have to track my maneuvers, have bard spell slots my bardic inspiration dice, and am I forgetting anything?
My point is, it's getting ridiculous how many different resources we're just creating to add to classes. The dice themselves are just "ok, so you can add a die to any other roll" (like bardic inspiration was), which is uncreative and kind of lazy way of "adding new features".
Resource management is a pretty core feature of playing spellcasters. And even for non-casters, creating "resources" to be managed goes hand-in-hand with limited but multiple use abilities. The alternative is making every ability "at-will", or limit them all to one user per turn/rest/etc.
If you want to play complex characters, they're going to have complex mechanics. No getting around that.
It's being fiddly for the sake of being fiddly. You can merge all abilities into basically the same resource and still have complexity. There's multiple ways about designing resources and how to expend them this is not a good way to do so.
You only can under certain conditions, and even when you can, what tends to happen is that the "best" ability becomes the only one to get used. (For instance, see how paladins often don't cast spells so they can burn them on smites.) That's boring.
Combining resource pools for different abilities of different power levels would be a TERRIBLY idea that would absolutely wreck the balance.
Ah, yes. Because that has worked so well for the 5e monk. Players love having to choose between being able to use their class features or being able to use their subclass features!
It's not fun, and to make it work you need to either compromise all the features so that expending X amount of resource on one feature is roughly as good as spending X amount on any other feature, or you just throw balance out the window and end up with a class that has essentially one feature it uses while the others just aren't worth the resource expenditure.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
You're right and you may have a point. I feel as though there's still better options/compromises than the way they are being executed.
Or monk's ki powers, none of which can compete with Stunning Strike, so Stunning Strike is the only thing monks ever use.
But is the solution to add yet another resource, or actually fix the god damned class and it's options?
For me, one of the absolute pillars of playing D&D is rolling all the funny-shaped multicolored dice. It's to the point where we house rule that magic missile gets a die roll for every missile because, again, we love rolling dice. I'm not saying you are wrong for feeling like you do, but I definitely come at it from the other direction.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm not exactly upset about rolling lots of dice. I'm upset at the ever increasing number of things to track and keep record of. Compounding that is that a lot of these features are reliant on just "dice" that you're given as random power boosts for random things.
It feels.lazy compared to giving actual new abilities or mechanics. It also feels like an unnecessary resource, and where as it fits for bards, it really is out of place representatively from the places where they use them. Even with the last UA, the cunning strike is a trade off that doesn't induce use, or could have been introduced in a way that doesn't use sneak attack dice as resources while still giving costs.
With the celestial, you could just give a smaller die or a flat number to boost healing and have it a set number of times, similar to the life cleric's always on max heal ability, though less powerful.
You could also use points for certain abilities, and make them more consistent and if it's an existing die roll, those "points" could be traded for just getting simple advantage on a roll.
Using dice as a resource and flat ot defining it as dice breaks game immersion as well, and when you trade those nebulous "dice" for straight effects (as some of the fighter features and celestial warlock do) l, are they really dice or are they points and you're just being lazy defining them as dice?
Furthermore D&D is NOT a dice as a resource game. There ARE dice as resources games out there, but they are far more adept and mechanically integrated as such than D&D will allow.
Fair enough.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I love having multiple resources to track. 🤷♂️
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I just can’t wait until they start doing dice chains and shifting them up and down…
What?
Oh. Just me?
*sigh* Typical. Now I gotta wait ten years for 6e…
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
chains? ungh....... Why don't we ask some of the MtG side how they like dice dependent cards like some of the "if you roll a 20, reroll" mechanics their DnD sets had...
Actually a recent stop into a game shop, and a guy was recommending a game where you eventually trade out for different sides on the dice, and they had these little clip on tiles... I think THIS is the new way to incorporate marketability of dice and new mechanics into D&D....(teh game actually sounded fun on its own and I may have to go back for it at some point..)
I keep Amazon wealthy from all of the red and orange polyhedral dice that I buy from them. I also bought a nice pen/pencil case from them to hold my dice. I also bought my leatherette dice cup there as well. (I just have to watch my dice carefully as otherwise my DM's housecats (Austin and Eclipse) will play with the d20s). Though, I once bought a very large foam d20 that has the housecats spooked--it is almost as big as one of them.
In the past, there was a fantasy role playing game from one of TSR/Wizards competitors called "Dragon Quest". This game used only percentile and d10 dice.