Nature themed parties would be able to play without house rules this way. In such parties I imagine rangers, barbarians, druids, Oath of the Ancients Paladins, scout rogues. Wizards and bards, who can cast identify, don't really fit this group. Currently the druid has to be variant human to get the magic initiate feat at the beginning to get Identify the legit way. This feat could be spent on better things. It might also help other, more general parties who want to skip the wizard class without "penalties". Druids have many problem solving tools, I think they would replace the wizard more easily than the cleric. This would be also helpful in D&D based video games, who tend to stick to the rules too much.
Some magic items are indistinguishable from their nonmagical counterparts, whereas other magic items display their magical nature conspicuously. Whatever a magic item’s appearance, handling the item is enough to give a character a sense that something is extraordinary about it. Discovering a magic item’s properties isn’t automatic, however.
The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Sometimes a magic item carries a clue to its properties. The command word to activate a ring might be etched in tiny letters inside it, or a feathered design might suggest that it’s a ring of feather falling.
Wearing or experimenting with an item can also offer hints about its properties. For example, if a character puts on a ring of jumping, you could say, “Your steps feel strangely springy.” Perhaps the character then jumps up and down to see what happens. You then say the character jumps unexpectedly high.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A magic item’s description explains how the item works. Handling a magic item is enough to give a character a sense that something is extraordinary about the item. The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties.Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them. Potions are an exception; a little taste is enough to tell the taster what the potion does.
Some seem to think that the DMG way is too easy and thus houserule that you need to use spell in most/all situations. IMO any such houserule should also put Identify on all spell lists.
Some seem to think that the DMG way is too easy and thus houserule that you need to use spell in most/all situations. IMO any such houserule should also put Identify on all spell lists.
Agree. Removing short rest identification without adding other options is one of those things that hinders gameplay without adding anything. I try to avoid that. Whatever the DM houserules, should add value to the game and never just hinder gameplay out of spite.
You already got the magic item and probably worked hard for it. Carrying it in your bag until you get to town and pay someone to identify it so you can use it in the next adventure is just torture at that point IMO and adds nothing of value.
IMO a better rule is that short rest identifying doesn't reveal possible curses or side effects, which the Identify spell does.
The only reason I can see for removing short rest-identification of magic items is to indirectly boost the utility of Identify. I think it would be much better to directly boost the appeal of Identify than to make it practically indispensable by removing the practical alternatives. That's just a spell tax, which I'm averse to. I like the idea of curses being revealed (perhaps to a certain level, more powerful ones are still hidden or the inverse of that or something). Alternatively, it could be a ritual spell, so it just speeds things up, etc.
I'm always leaning towards making a feature more useful than nerfing others to make it more useful by default. Obviously there are exceptions, but nerfing established mechanics generally cause more problems than boosting weak ones.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Nature themed parties would be able to play without house rules this way. In such parties I imagine rangers, barbarians, druids, Oath of the Ancients Paladins, scout rogues. Wizards and bards, who can cast identify, don't really fit this group. Currently the druid has to be variant human to get the magic initiate feat at the beginning to get Identify the legit way. This feat could be spent on better things. It might also help other, more general parties who want to skip the wizard class without "penalties". Druids have many problem solving tools, I think they would replace the wizard more easily than the cleric. This would be also helpful in D&D based video games, who tend to stick to the rules too much.
What do you think?
I think this is a good idea. There’s no game reason why druids shouldn’t have access to Identify, since they are the lorekeepers of their people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
The only reason I can see for removing short rest-identification of magic items is to indirectly boost the utility of Identify. I think it would be much better to directly boost the appeal of Identify than to make it practically indispensable by removing the practical alternatives. That's just a spell tax, which I'm averse to. I like the idea of curses being revealed (perhaps to a certain level, more powerful ones are still hidden or the inverse of that or something). Alternatively, it could be a ritual spell, so it just speeds things up, etc.
I'm always leaning towards making a feature more useful than nerfing others to make it more useful by default. Obviously there are exceptions, but nerfing established mechanics generally cause more problems than boosting weak ones.
I think Identify is already a ritual spell, which I think is the most important aspect of the spell. You can usually spare 10 minutes in the middle of a dungeon to identify an item, but an hour is a long time.
If memory serves druids were the original 'court wizards' in tales of yore, so I'd be absolutely fine with D&D's own brand of Druids having the spell. At the very least the Circle of Stars Druid subclass ought to have it, given that knowledge is their domain.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
It's also very easy to reflavor certain Wizards or Bards to be nature themed. It's your table and your game, but that seems limiting to discount them just because they're classically Arcane based/studious/whatever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The only reason I can see for removing short rest-identification of magic items is to indirectly boost the utility of Identify. I think it would be much better to directly boost the appeal of Identify than to make it practically indispensable by removing the practical alternatives. That's just a spell tax, which I'm averse to. I like the idea of curses being revealed (perhaps to a certain level, more powerful ones are still hidden or the inverse of that or something). Alternatively, it could be a ritual spell, so it just speeds things up, etc.
I'm always leaning towards making a feature more useful than nerfing others to make it more useful by default. Obviously there are exceptions, but nerfing established mechanics generally cause more problems than boosting weak ones.
I think Identify is already a ritual spell, which I think is the most important aspect of the spell. You can usually spare 10 minutes in the middle of a dungeon to identify an item, but an hour is a long time.
Well that's annoying, DDB doesn't say it's a ritual on the statblock.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
No one needs Identify. Anyone, even the party Barbarian can figure out what a magic item is over the course of a short rest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It's also very easy to reflavor certain Wizards or Bards to be nature themed. It's your table and your game, but that seems limiting to discount them just because they're classically Arcane based/studious/whatever.
This exactly. I've actually had this idea cooking for quite a while. Sort of a witch/voodoo/sage/seer kind of wizard reflavor.
And to emphasize this, I would use a component pouch instead of an arcane focus since mechanically they are the same.
It does, check the name/casting time. Both have the ritual icon.
Not on mobile.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Nature themed parties would be able to play without house rules this way.
In such parties I imagine rangers, barbarians, druids, Oath of the Ancients Paladins, scout rogues. Wizards and bards, who can cast identify, don't really fit this group. Currently the druid has to be variant human to get the magic initiate feat at the beginning to get Identify the legit way. This feat could be spent on better things.
It might also help other, more general parties who want to skip the wizard class without "penalties". Druids have many problem solving tools, I think they would replace the wizard more easily than the cleric.
This would be also helpful in D&D based video games, who tend to stick to the rules too much.
What do you think?
Anyone can get the benefits of Identify during a short rest; I don't think the party composition you mention really has much of a problem.
DMG, Chapter 7:
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Thanks. It seems we play some optional rules.
Some seem to think that the DMG way is too easy and thus houserule that you need to use spell in most/all situations. IMO any such houserule should also put Identify on all spell lists.
Anyone who has the option to take ritual caster has access to identify...
Agree. Removing short rest identification without adding other options is one of those things that hinders gameplay without adding anything. I try to avoid that. Whatever the DM houserules, should add value to the game and never just hinder gameplay out of spite.
You already got the magic item and probably worked hard for it. Carrying it in your bag until you get to town and pay someone to identify it so you can use it in the next adventure is just torture at that point IMO and adds nothing of value.
IMO a better rule is that short rest identifying doesn't reveal possible curses or side effects, which the Identify spell does.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
Adding identify to druids would make things easier in case of a restrictive DMs.
Ritual caster is just a workaround. The spell is not a big deal, adding to their list wouldn't be game breaking.
The only reason I can see for removing short rest-identification of magic items is to indirectly boost the utility of Identify. I think it would be much better to directly boost the appeal of Identify than to make it practically indispensable by removing the practical alternatives. That's just a spell tax, which I'm averse to. I like the idea of curses being revealed (perhaps to a certain level, more powerful ones are still hidden or the inverse of that or something). Alternatively, it could be a ritual spell, so it just speeds things up, etc.
I'm always leaning towards making a feature more useful than nerfing others to make it more useful by default. Obviously there are exceptions, but nerfing established mechanics generally cause more problems than boosting weak ones.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think this is a good idea. There’s no game reason why druids shouldn’t have access to Identify, since they are the lorekeepers of their people.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I think Identify is already a ritual spell, which I think is the most important aspect of the spell. You can usually spare 10 minutes in the middle of a dungeon to identify an item, but an hour is a long time.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
If memory serves druids were the original 'court wizards' in tales of yore, so I'd be absolutely fine with D&D's own brand of Druids having the spell. At the very least the Circle of Stars Druid subclass ought to have it, given that knowledge is their domain.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
It's also very easy to reflavor certain Wizards or Bards to be nature themed. It's your table and your game, but that seems limiting to discount them just because they're classically Arcane based/studious/whatever.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Well that's annoying, DDB doesn't say it's a ritual on the statblock.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It does, check the name/casting time. Both have the ritual icon.
No one needs Identify. Anyone, even the party Barbarian can figure out what a magic item is over the course of a short rest.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This exactly. I've actually had this idea cooking for quite a while. Sort of a witch/voodoo/sage/seer kind of wizard reflavor.
And to emphasize this, I would use a component pouch instead of an arcane focus since mechanically they are the same.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
Not on mobile.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It show it as ritual on my mobile browser. What are you using?