Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Yes. The infusion actually does creates certain magic items so it must meet any of the listed characteristics of that item. Bag of holding weighing 15 lb is because of the "space " it contains rather than the bag itself.
Infusions are defacto the magical item listed not some mimic or pseudo magic item.
The item isn't made out of thin air, you are required to have an item to then replicate what magical item you want. How I see this sentence...."Using this infusion, you replicate a particular magic item"....it can be used to simply replicate the magic of the item. Which is what we are doing, we are twisting normal magic methods into our own and creating the same magic, just in a different method, onto the item of which we wish to have it represent as something we want, magically. I know how to make a car, but who says I need to make the car the same 2 tons as every other car? I can still replicate something and achieve the same goal of which the original creation does, but weigh more, weigh less, look different, etc.
Now, I am not saying I don't your point, but I would say the items we replicate are pseudo. If sell said replicated item and then a few days later, make another, then technically speaking the one I sold was psudo, or sham, per its definition.
I assume how you read the sentence is, I take said bag (focusing on Bag of Holding example in OP) and I touch it in long rest and poof it is a Bag of Holding. It grows in size to match what a normal Bag of Holding is and looks just like a normal one. All the while having its normal magical effects. This is correct?
There's actually no way of differentiating a bag of holding that's created by an infusion and a different bag of holding. As long as the infusion persists so does that item item unless with Consumable items aside. The bag of holding is one until it's not. The only way someone could tell if the bag in question was a generic one or an infusion is by destroying it but that isn't very useful for anyone. A DM could use some form of ability check or maybe even have a setting where all magical items are basically infusions so of their creator dies or decides to repo their magic they can.
There's actually very little in the physical size description of a bag of holding past the opening. There isn't a Standard issue BoH so there no reason for your infusion to change the size of the bag past manipulating its opening in a way to match the description.
This almost sounds like an agreement with what I said, lol. X). As previously mentioned, I do see your side of what you said the first time.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
The Bag of Holding says that it weighs 15 lbs regardless of what's inside. So you could simply infer that the extradimensionalness is the cause of it weighing 15 lbs - not the bag itself. So putting the infusion into any other bag will just cause the same effect.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
The Bag of Holding says that it weighs 15 lbs regardless of what's inside. So you could simply infer that the extradimensionalness is the cause of it weighing 15 lbs - not the bag itself. So putting the infusion into any other bag will just cause the same effect.
BoH is probably not the greatest example to use then, lol.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
If you want to make it heavier, sturdier, lighter, etc., that is a different magic item, and probably a higher rarity item. For example if you want to make a chain shirt +1 that's easy, a second level Artificer can do that. If you also want to make it lighter then you are encroaching on Elven Chain, which is presumably more difficult. A Handy Haversack is like a lighter, smaller Bag of Holding, but it is also Rare to BoH's Uncommon, so you might need to be a higher level to use a replicate magic item infusion to make one.
Artificer infusions come off a list of common magic items, not literally any magic item you can imagine. Those items have been play tested and have known consequences on game play. A 1 pound Bag of Holding is specifically a broken magic item, because it makes it so much easier to make a Bag of Holding Bomb, and for practically no cost at all if it was an infusion. You can't make an "Arrowhead of Total Destruction" with a standard 15 pound bag of holding, it would have to be a ballista bolt if it worked at all.
If you want to make a unique magic item, one that strays from the default magic item description, that might be better as an item you actually create rather than a mere infusion. Check out the magic item creation rules.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
The rule is something that has been mentioned numerous times already. That according to how infusions work, an infused item is identical to it's magical counterpart. A BoH weighs 15 lbs, there an infused BoH weighs 15 lbs. That's all there is to it.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
The rule is something that has been mentioned numerous times already. That according to how infusions work, an infused item is identical to it's magical counterpart. A BoH weighs 15 lbs, there an infused BoH weighs 15 lbs. That's all there is to it.
Yes, as I said, probably BoH isn't the best example unfortunately.
What I was overall getting at is, this sentence..."Using this infusion, you replicate a particular magic item"...can be taken in two ways. Fully as what was probably intended, meaning you create that item as it is written in official books, etc OR, you can see it as simply reproducing the magical effects of said item.
The description of BoH just states it is that, but doesn't really state it is magically that. So if I am simply reproducing the magic of BoH, it can be argued that it doesn't weigh 15lbs than.
Overall, was seeing how people thought of such an idea. It seems most would say no or in some way against.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
If you want to make it heavier, sturdier, lighter, etc., that is a different magic item, and probably a higher rarity item. For example if you want to make a chain shirt +1 that's easy, a second level Artificer can do that. If you also want to make it lighter then you are encroaching on Elven Chain, which is presumably more difficult. A Handy Haversack is like a lighter, smaller Bag of Holding, but it is also Rare to BoH's Uncommon, so you might need to be a higher level to use a replicate magic item infusion to make one.
Artificer infusions come off a list of common magic items, not literally any magic item you can imagine. Those items have been play tested and have known consequences on game play. A 1 pound Bag of Holding is specifically a broken magic item, because it makes it so much easier to make a Bag of Holding Bomb, and for practically no cost at all if it was an infusion. You can't make an "Arrowhead of Total Destruction" with a standard 15 pound bag of holding, it would have to be a ballista bolt if it worked at all.
If you want to make a unique magic item, one that strays from the default magic item description, that might be better as an item you actually create rather than a mere infusion. Check out the magic item creation rules.
Well, can't make BoH bombs, as you can only create one BoH from infusions anyways, lol. Otherwise, yea, that would be very not fair.
When you replicate something, you aren't emulating that something. Rather, you're reproducing an exact copy. If you replicate a bag of holding, then it has all the statistics of one. This includes the prescribed weight.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
The rule is something that has been mentioned numerous times already. That according to how infusions work, an infused item is identical to it's magical counterpart. A BoH weighs 15 lbs, there an infused BoH weighs 15 lbs. That's all there is to it.
Yes, as I said, probably BoH isn't the best example unfortunately.
What I was overall getting at is, this sentence..."Using this infusion, you replicate a particular magic item"...can be taken in two ways.
It really can't, no.
Fully as what was probably intended, meaning you create that item as it is written in official books, etc OR, you can see it as simply reproducing the magical effects of said item.
The description of BoH just states it is that, but doesn't really state it is magically that. So if I am simply reproducing the magic of BoH, it can be argued that it doesn't weigh 15lbs than.
Except for the, you know, the fact that it says that the BoH weighs that much, so that's how much the infused BoH weighs? According to the rules?
Again, as previously mentioned, BoH was a bad example.
Actually, I think the bag of holding is a terrific example. What we have here is an example of an infused object changing mass. But it isn't the only one. If you create a rope of climbing, then your infused 50 feet of hempen or silk rope magically grows 10 feet longer. And it somehow also becomes lighter; weighing only 3 pounds instead of 10 or 5.
Lets try this again, as my first attempt was auto-marked as Spam for some reason....
Hello all, I had a thought and was curious what you all thought about my thought.
Replicated items, when you create one into existence, it adds the item to your inventory. We will stick with a Bag of Holding as our example in this post. So I use my infusion to replicate a Bag of Holding out of one of my items, which adds the actual Bag of Holding item into my inventory, adding its 15lbs.
Should this really be the case? How I see the infusion process is that I am simply adding the effects of Bag of Holding onto the bag of which I am using to replicate the item with. Not literally creating a bag of holding from scratch, which you can't do anyways. So, if the bag I am using weighs 1lb, does it truly make sense that the magic I use to add the effects of Bag of Holding onto this 1lb bag to make it 15lbs? Does magic have weight weight in general? lol
Just seems odd to me to be having added weight on items that are simply mimicking the magical item, but not being the literal item itself.
The item isn't made out of thin air, you are required to have an item to then replicate what magical item you want. How I see this sentence...."Using this infusion, you replicate a particular magic item"....it can be used to simply replicate the magic of the item. Which is what we are doing, we are twisting normal magic methods into our own and creating the same magic, just in a different method, onto the item of which we wish to have it represent as something we want, magically. I know how to make a car, but who says I need to make the car the same 2 tons as every other car? I can still replicate something and achieve the same goal of which the original creation does, but weigh more, weigh less, look different, etc.
Now, I am not saying I don't your point, but I would say the items we replicate are pseudo. If sell said replicated item and then a few days later, make another, then technically speaking the one I sold was psudo, or sham, per its definition.
I assume how you read the sentence is, I take said bag (focusing on Bag of Holding example in OP) and I touch it in long rest and poof it is a Bag of Holding. It grows in size to match what a normal Bag of Holding is and looks just like a normal one. All the while having its normal magical effects. This is correct?
This almost sounds like an agreement with what I said, lol. X). As previously mentioned, I do see your side of what you said the first time.
Look at it like this. The original bag you start out with weighs 1lb but since you need to alter it to actually add the infusion to it (magical seals, new stitching with special thread, maybe a new strap, arcane runes, heavy reinforcments, etc) it's not going to be that same 1lb bag when you're done with it. The end result will, by magic or by chance, still weigh 15 lbs.
The Bag of Holding says that it weighs 15 lbs regardless of what's inside. So you could simply infer that the extradimensionalness is the cause of it weighing 15 lbs - not the bag itself. So putting the infusion into any other bag will just cause the same effect.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Story wise, I get it can be explained quite easily. I'm trying to see if the other way is plausible. As the writing is open ended, it comes across as simply magic being added to the item to represent what you want. So it begs the question, does the magic add the weight? As the story could go, what if I need to jerryrig something? Which is basically what it is, but in this case, more cutting corners, due to XYZ reason. OR other side of the coin, tinkerers always try to make things better in any aspect they can. Given magic is rather concrete and not something you can simply mold into whatever, that leaves the physical aspect of the item in question. Who is to say we can't make a lighter BoH? or lighter anything. Sturdier? Heavier? etc. If I am missing something when it comes to magical objects, please let me know. For all I know, there is some rule or reference that magical items are concrete in their description for "X" reason.
BoH is probably not the greatest example to use then, lol.
If you want to make it heavier, sturdier, lighter, etc., that is a different magic item, and probably a higher rarity item. For example if you want to make a chain shirt +1 that's easy, a second level Artificer can do that. If you also want to make it lighter then you are encroaching on Elven Chain, which is presumably more difficult. A Handy Haversack is like a lighter, smaller Bag of Holding, but it is also Rare to BoH's Uncommon, so you might need to be a higher level to use a replicate magic item infusion to make one.
Artificer infusions come off a list of common magic items, not literally any magic item you can imagine. Those items have been play tested and have known consequences on game play. A 1 pound Bag of Holding is specifically a broken magic item, because it makes it so much easier to make a Bag of Holding Bomb, and for practically no cost at all if it was an infusion. You can't make an "Arrowhead of Total Destruction" with a standard 15 pound bag of holding, it would have to be a ballista bolt if it worked at all.
If you want to make a unique magic item, one that strays from the default magic item description, that might be better as an item you actually create rather than a mere infusion. Check out the magic item creation rules.
The rule is something that has been mentioned numerous times already. That according to how infusions work, an infused item is identical to it's magical counterpart. A BoH weighs 15 lbs, there an infused BoH weighs 15 lbs. That's all there is to it.
Yes, as I said, probably BoH isn't the best example unfortunately.
What I was overall getting at is, this sentence..."Using this infusion, you replicate a particular magic item"...can be taken in two ways. Fully as what was probably intended, meaning you create that item as it is written in official books, etc OR, you can see it as simply reproducing the magical effects of said item.
The description of BoH just states it is that, but doesn't really state it is magically that. So if I am simply reproducing the magic of BoH, it can be argued that it doesn't weigh 15lbs than.
Overall, was seeing how people thought of such an idea. It seems most would say no or in some way against.
Well, can't make BoH bombs, as you can only create one BoH from infusions anyways, lol. Otherwise, yea, that would be very not fair.
When you replicate something, you aren't emulating that something. Rather, you're reproducing an exact copy. If you replicate a bag of holding, then it has all the statistics of one. This includes the prescribed weight.
It really can't, no.
Except for the, you know, the fact that it says that the BoH weighs that much, so that's how much the infused BoH weighs? According to the rules?
Alright, I suppose not.
Again, as previously mentioned, BoH was a bad example.
Actually, I think the bag of holding is a terrific example. What we have here is an example of an infused object changing mass. But it isn't the only one. If you create a rope of climbing, then your infused 50 feet of hempen or silk rope magically grows 10 feet longer. And it somehow also becomes lighter; weighing only 3 pounds instead of 10 or 5.